'Andrew Tate phenomena' surges in schools - with boys refusing to talk to female teacher

Every teacher I hear from (US) these days basically says the newest generation coming up is completely screwed. Unreal levels of behavioral issues that are not being addressed at home. Complete lack of engagement with the lesson plan, unfinished assignments all over. They need to curve grades left and right just to get the majority of the class to pass. The parents are more emboldened than ever to make the teachers' lives hell over things they know nothing about and refuse to take responsibility for.

It's easy to brush it off as the standard generational nose-thumbing...but this seems different. Something is really breaking down and I think social media is at the center of it.

It’s a shame teachers are pressured to “curve grade” rather than just flunk these people and hold them back a grade.
- Even when I went to elementary school over 15 years ago in Canada, kids weren't allowed to be held back without written permission from their parents. I thought it was really fucking weird because we literally had a kid whose mom did all of his homework (everyone knew; he had horrible writing and she didn't) and yet refused to put him in a remedial class or have him repeat a year.
- Schools now lose funding when kids don't pass, so admins press teachers to move them along.
- Many if not all school districts in the States have their funding tied to their performance, so there is a negative incentive to make grades look good. My elementary school tried to place me in their Special Ed program because my grades would have brought the average up there.
  Plus, holding back 60, 70, 80% of an entire class just isn't logistically feasible in most cases.
Something is really breaking down and I think social media is at the center of it.
I feel like you could apply this to almost every societal crisis we’re facing. It’s like social media took every little crack in the foundation and turned it into a chasm.
- Parents in Facebook echo chambers trying to discover who to blame for their child’s shitty behaviour then getting into arguments when they are told to perhaps get off their phone and speak to their child.
  Children in Facebook echo chambers where they make their neurodivergence their entire personality while simultaneously excusing any and all behaviour due to it.
  If both groups spoke to each other a lot could be changed.
It is different, because never in human history has it been easier to influence people. We are literally addicted, as in the brain is literally addicted, to our little disinformation device, the output of which is largely controlled by malicious powerful entities. Now add impressionable young brains to the mix.
It is a pretty terrible scenario with no obvious solution.
I retired from the job 5 years ago. Your description rings true from my experience then (and was a big part of me retiring), and the colleagues I've stayed in touch with say it's very noticeably worse now. I'm glad I got out when I did.
- From your experience, why do you think that is? Mostly social media? If so, what about it? Bad parenting? The whole Covid remote stuff? Is it economically driven? Are the schools doing anything differently that could cause it?
Covid really fucked them in not getting normal socialization at school and put a lot of kids behind by a couple of years accedemically. Right now 4/5th grade and up are really screwed. Plus parents just aren't engaged.
- I’d at least consider parents aren’t engaged due to time and energy, cause of pressures at work.
  Also, when I was at school there were teachers that put extra time and effort in with kids that were top of the class and bottom of the class. Bet it wouldn’t be like that now cause everyone is so rundown.
- Throw into that mix all the parents who think home schooling is best. Sure, for a select few it's going to be better, but the majority are going to struggle in later life.
- Covid really fucked them in not getting normal socialization at school
  Don't worry, they will be bullied throughout their life. Missing a couple years of bullying won't hurt.
I am, not great at parenting, I've made hella mistakes. I've only one son and do my best.
The number of teachers/therapists (my son works a few programs for his needs) that have been floored by my willingness to parent and hold my son accountable for his actions, is far too high.
While I'll take the compliment being "a breath of fresh air" (an actual compliment from a therapist) it bothers me more parents cant take thier own faults to accountability nor hold their children to any standard of conduct really saddens me. I shouldn't be a wildflower in a field of dirt, it should be a field of flowers damn. A silly metaphor but you get my point hopefully.
- I am, not great at parenting, I've made hella mistakes. I've only one son and do my best.
  It sounds like you are
- The problem with you being the rare parent to hold their child accountable is that your kid is just going to see it as you being unfair to them. Their peers are going to laugh at them.
  A lot of their peers legitimately don't need to worry about being a responsible adult. They will inherit enough wealth to never have to work a day in their life.
Those kids are the next generations parents. What are their kids going to be like?
- Luckily, they probably won't have any.
- Wage slaves who pay rent to landlords
It's mass narcissism and it's going to destroy our society.
If I don't see signs of change soon, I'm getting tf out of here.
- This is it. We’re a Narcissistic culture, and it’s getting worse.
Based on who America voted for president I don't feel very surprised about the issues and behavior of parents.
I would be surprised if this were the case in every state though.
lol, and here's me thinking I'll get to finally loosen these bootstraps one day. Wouldn't be Millennial difficulty if something nice happened for once, so why should I expect reprieve in retirement age? Probably just be anxious af anyway because not being abused by another generation seems too good to be true.
- No joke. We went from getting yelled at by old people for problems they caused, to being called old and getting shoved aside by the generation ahead of us, really freaking fast.
  I feel like we've already been forgotten after we were robbed of opportunity and respect at every turn.
  I try to focus my energy towards the good ones. There's still good people out there. I've met many kids that would put the majority of adults to shame with their level of intelligence, maturity, and respect. The odds are so against them though.
I'll broaden it to not just social media, but the totality of endless scrolling social media, plus endless access to narcissist "influencers", plus addicting video games (inspired by gambling patterns), plus must watch addicting TV shows and movies on demand. A lot of this is endless dopamine machine. Add in both parents working and only children with no siblings is less socialization.
Nooo, kids were like that form the ancient times /s.
Not just the US. One of our school districts can't fail anyone and your final grade is determined by the work you hand in.
Social media is definitely a big thing, even if it’s not the only thing.
I believe it has two parts. The technology can personalize content and optimize for engagement, so it’s more addicting than traditional media could ever be.
And the jackasses making content have no accountability or editorial standards whatsoever. They churn out whatever clicks and they’re willing to lie, incite, and gaslight their way through it.
Combine the low content standards with the high addiction factor and you have a ticking time bomb. Or maybe it already went off and we’re just looking around at the crater left behind.
Seems like teachers and schools aren't properly equipped for modern kids.
- More like modern kids aren't equipped to deal with reality.
Probably going to get slated for this but surely at some point we need to accept our being all nice and friendly all the time just doesn't work.
Like if kids are this bad send them off to military school for a month till they shape up. Happens again 6 months, then 12. Government mandated, parents don't like it, they can look after their kids better.
People are absolute shits and don't give a fuck about others or their future. No amount of "please pay attention or you won't understand algebra and won't get a good job" will do anything, you will just get "Why do i need to learn algebra! I'll never use that. John just told me to shut up, what am I meant to do? Just let him disrespect me like that. You should be talking to John!"
Fuck them. Make them do press ups in the rain see if they learn to shut up then.
- I actually agree with you. There used to be real consequences for bad behavior and being lazy, and now you get told that it's not really your fault. Zero concept of personal responsibility. Now society is an epidemic of mass narcissism and selfishness. It clearly isn't sustainable. There are going to be severe consequences for our quality of life in the future, and that's assuming society even survives this epidemic at all.
- How many Gomer Pyles will that produce?
Welcome to post-scarcity.
Honestly, I wish I realized it more as a kid. There's not really a reason to pay attention to shit we don't care about because there's some autist out there who is going to enjoy doing it and do it better. We can just apply their solutions and move on with our lives. It's not like they will even care. They're too busy doing other things.
Bless the next generation for fighting back against our tunnel vision.
So this teacher had nothing bad to say about the teaching or the education system? It's just bad kids and their bad parents, right? How convenient for teachers.
In reality these schools are indoctrination camps on the school-to-prison pipeline. We live in a fascist society that's literally destroying the planet. Schools are a fundamental part of this process.
TBH kids shouldn't listen to their teachers and schools. That's what got us here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_religion
Those damn machines, impacting the youth!
Those damn newspapers, impacting the youth!
Those damn radios, impacting the youth!
Those damn TVs, impacting the youth!
Those damn internet connected computers, impacting the youth!
Those damn smartphones, impacting the youth!
Those damn AI models, impacting the youth!
- Our youth now love luxury, they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders, and they love to chatter instead of exercise. Children are now tyrants not servants of their household. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers.
- We really have reached a whole new level of impression.
- its all about who controls that stuff

In my opinion the huge difference between this generation and all previous ones is that content is no longer vetted by anyone. It used to be that to put something in front of kids it had to approved by some sane adult. If a TV station marketed to children something that most parents would not approve they would face protests or maybe even legal action. On social media any asshole can post literally anything and millions of kids will consume it without any supervision.

- Most media is liberal though. Liberalism is a (right-wing) hegemonic ideology. CNN, Fox, NYTimes, NYPost, NPR... All liberal.
  Not so much for leftism though. It's "strange" how the right-wing conflates the two.
You know you're actually right on the money, and it's a little startling that it never occurred to me before. Shit.
Yep, that's why the only way to be a good parent nowadays is to not give your kids smart phones or computers of their own. There was a time when it was kinda ok for them to have those devices, but that time is permanently in the past.
- Closeted queer kids with bigoted parents need online safe spaces.
- This is a very dangerous line of reasoning that will play right into the hands of fascists.,
And, part of the reason for that is section 230 of the Communications Decency Act of 1996.
No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be treated as the publisher or speaker of any information provided by another information content provider.
If a TV station or radio station has a call-in show and the caller swears, it's the station that gets fined. If the station runs a late night informercial where someone is defamed, the station is liable. But, do it online and you're fine. The YouTube algorithm can pick out the juiciest, most controversial, most slanderous content and shove it into everyone's recommendations and only the person who posted that content is responsible.
Section 230 makes sense in some situations. If you're running a bulletin board without any kind of algorithm promoting posts, then it makes sense that you shouldn't be held accountable for what someone says in that bulletin board. But, YouTube, Twitch, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, etc. have all taken it too far. They don't personally create the content, but they have algorithms that analyze the content and decide who to show it to. They get the protections of a bulletin board, while curating the content to make it even more engaging than a segment on Newsmax or MSNBC.
It used to be that to put something in front of kids it had to approved by some sane adult.
I love how you got a ton of upvotes by vaguely gesturing at the past.
When was this time you speak of?
What has changed is the social fabric of society has been ripped up.
- Back when media for kids consisted mainly of broadcast TV shows and books. It's not some mythical past; it's my childhood.

Have you ever had a creepy guy who hangs around the school desperately trying to impress little kids? Yeah he's the online version.

Or he's your friend's weird, 28 year old brother, whose room is only lit with black lights, and UV reactive posters, has no job, smokes weed all day, and trips all the time, who tells you Mayans invented cell phones.
- Some of that's okay.
- I mean, he's having an easier time getting laid than most of the people criticizing him on these forums so...
  Who do you think adolescent boys are going to listen to more?

I don't think it is social media. It is much more simple: people can't spend time with each other. Employers keep reducing the wages, while maintaining or increasing the amount of work their employees have to do. This means that workers can't invest time into friends or family, which in turn deprives children of healthy role models.

Jackasses like Tate get to influence the children, because there is a void that has been left empty - Tate has enough wealth and time to fill in for society. Work culture is a ravenous beast, forever chasing workers. If you pause, you lose everything. So you might as well sacrifice the time you could spend with family, since you would lose them anyway if you shirk being a breadwinner.

Optimization for the sake of line going up, inevitably destroys everything that surrounds the pillar that society is forced to worship.

I would also include the death of the “third place”. Because even if you work enough to survive, where do you spend your time outside of the home with other people in your community without spending money? Even worse options if you want kids allowed.
One of the only places I know of is the library. But I’d be very surprised by an 8-10 year old boy spending their time at the library.
Jackasses like Tate get to influence the children, because there is a void that has been left empty
I'd like to amend this to say that there is void that support "boys". There's a lot of encouragement for the development of girls into STEM, into sports, into everything else but there's no encouragement for boys. Boys are left to fend for themselves and if they don't get the right support and encouragement at home, they end up ripe for influencers like Tate.
- A lot of them spend their free time in their bedrooms, gaming. Their only friends are online gamers that are in other parts of the world. They have no actual physical interaction.
  I've even seen posts where young men in their 20s are finally making enough money that they can finally visit online friends that they've known for years, often describing them as "best friends."
I would argue that those factors aren't a direct cause, but the isolation leaves them vulnerable to things like this. The internet used to be wide open and your semi-random traversal of independent sites would still expose you to a diverse array of people and content.
The pursuit of profit led to massive, accessible, engagement driven social media platforms. Optimization for ad views meant segmenting demographics and serving them distilled content. The hyper specific content led to these demographics living in echo chambers based on their flavor of polarizing content.
The Tate-sphere is built around exploiting that isolation and selling bogus solutions. There's no specific reason the algorithm funnels into it other than it's catches a broad user base on a charged topic => $$$. The algorithm could just as easily push young men into fighting for socially beneficial causes, but anger is a strong emotion that gives the most money.
It's not either or. It could be both. In rhis case, most of these reasons can be traced back to the perversion of capitalism.

Let's not pretend like these children aren't having this behavior reinforced by their parents.

The internet has made it quite easy for kids to develop an "inner life" that their parents have little to no awareness of, regardless of how attentive they are, though it's obviously worse if they are not.
- Guess what, it's your job as a parent to keep your kids off the Internet then.
- I developed an inner life, it was the only peace I could find from the daily assault that was my outer life. Sure in the past it was more visible habits like reading a book, but letting kids have some autonomy over their lives is important I feel
That’s it. From what I hear (in Germany) is that the number of students with problematic behavior has increased, yes. That is something teachers can handle, if the parents cooperate or at the very least not interfere.
Unfortunately the number of problematic parents has sharply risen as well. More seem to be taking a page out of the Trump playbook of never admitting anything and going on the offensive instead. They can become quite aggressive and belligerent when their kid faces consequences for their actions, especially if misogyny was involved.
It’s impossible to help these students, if they act out behavior they see at home or, often enough, from their divorced fathers, and are encouraged for it.
Behavioral issues start at home.
- Because the kids are digesting the content at home?
Where did the parents get it? Why did they get it? Why don't they know better?
I'm not being cheeky. I want to know real answers to that shit.
- Since i have a kid with autism i notice how little other people with regular kids invest in them. When the kid starts to walk and talk at the age of two, they basically expect of them to act as adults, and I'm not exaggerating. After that kids get a minimal amount of time that parents address to them. Kids are given a phone too keep them not asking for parents attention, which is formative for their social and emotional skills. You don't learn that from other kids or Jake Paul. So it's a combination of shitty parenting and extremely toxic place where people spent hours every day. If you are a developing person it will fuck you up.
- As a Millennial that had young parents I was always dumbfounded by my peers’ boomer parents. It’s like they just went to work and treated their kids like an afterthought, and they were too stuck in their greedy consumer mindset and didn’t have a clue about what we consider today the most basic of tech.
  It’s not hard for me to imagine that my generation went on to raise kids poorly. I don’t have children myself but I’ve seen plenty of people my age raising them.
Let's not pretend that this is real news instead of phony clickbait from Sky effing News.

He should meet a Luigi.

The problem isn't that we need to get rid of Tate. They are like flies and there will always be more like him.
What we need to figure out is what made him so persuasive to young boys - that's the real problem. We need to know why young boys are willing to listen to bullshit like his, and we must figure out what we can do to correct that.
- No positive father figure in their lives. No sense of community. Stigma from male role models that want to step up but fear being branded a PDF.
- What we need to figure out is what made him so persuasive to young boys
  Why is this a mystery to people? Everything is falling apart and most adults are in denial about it, kids are going to follow people like this because they sense the nihilism of the moment that their parent's can't handle confronting.
  We do need to get rid of Andrew Tate though I will settle for him going back to jail, but his popularity isn't a mystery. There is a very clear pipeline to make money as a conservative influencer, this is then ultimately an issue of money being poured into manipulating children.
- We only talk about the absolute worst men. We have raised them to think that the right is the party for them because otherwise they are being told over and over that they are dangerous predators and nothing more.
- You can do both
- Because all we hear about men from the left is that women would rather be with bears, and that men are useless. And that they are oppressing everyone with their privilege.
  You tell some poor white kid he's privileged, he's not going to be your friend or sympathetic to your causes.
  I don't think messaging from the left has really done anything to win them over. It's not necessarily that Andrew Tate is telling them anything amazing. He's just a voice not blaming them for everything.
“There are too many assholes in the world because people let them get away with it.” - Mr Inbetween

When I was a kid in the 80s & 90s that's when the parents get brought in.

"In a secondary English class last year, a group of boys opted, despite discouragement, to write a persuasive essay on why Andrew Tate is the GOAT (greatest of all time) which included praise of his view that women are a man's property... all of the parents were contacted and were appalled."

When I worked in a middle school a couple years back, I heard the Tate shit there. Had a student who would name their Kahoot something like “[female students name] has a nice ass” and administration would refuse to allow me to impose consequences.

If you are around teen boys, please talk to them about Tate. He’s not someone who should be walking free, and he’s not someone children should be listening to.

I've already raised 3 wonderful & respectful children into mostly functional men, but if I had ever gotten a call like that, the child in question wouldn't have had a phone or seen another webpage until after they moved out as an adult.
Alternate idea: it’s not my job to raise someone else’s kids.
- part of being an adult is doing the work in front of you that needs doing, regardless of "ought"s "supposed to"s
  we all benefit from the next generation learning to treat others properly, regardless of our own parental status
- This shitheaded take is how we ended up with the failing society that we have
- If youre a teacher you need to quit. Now.
  No it isnt our job to raise someone else's kids but it is our job to educate them. Not just on curriculum. Teaching isnt just shoving curriculum down students' throats, calling it a day, and getting your summer vacation.
  Our job is to help students succeed as people. The curriculum is one small part of that. Being a role model and teaching kids how to be better people is a part of that. If you didnt sign up for that, find another job.
  The world is full of shit teachers and I cannot stand teachers who dont take this job seriously enough to understand the responsibility it comes with. Do better or find different work. For your sake and the sake of your students.
- Sure, but the children are people; they do not have the experience of wisdom to make choices and rely on adults to teach them wisdom from their experience.
  It's not your job, but those kids are the ones paying for their parents' value system, and so the adults teaching them aren't teaching them well. Children are people, and are being let down. Theyre not kitset projects for parents.
  One day those people will be expected to make their own choices, and the only foundation they'll have to decide with is what they're taught now. It's not your job, but it's everybody's civic responsibility to contribute to a healthier collective society, and children are a part of that.
- Actually when you live in a democracy it is. Or at least, if you don't you still get the consequences when these kids start voting.
- If a psychopath has an influence over children in their formative years, it is your absolute responsibility to educate the kid and the parents.
- It’s not your job. It is rewarding in and of itself though.
  The great part about Boys and Girls Clubs or being a CASA or face painting at a festival etc is that you don’t have to raise them. The undivided attention of adult who seems to genuinely like and care about them for like 15 minutes is the kind of shit that changes kids lives.
  I’m not saying “organize community talks at your local library about positive masculinity” or “become a Big” but - maybe a cousin says something shitty at dinner, and you bring it up gently in a chat? Or be a positive role model in spaces where you encounter young men: in video games, on forums, outside…
  The best way to create a society where men are allowed to cry and express their emotions is to teach boys and young men these things are okay.
- think again. do you want someone else's kids to grow up to be misogynists who will vote?

Gotta remember... This is sky news. Probably fake. Especially since the "survey" doesn't even match the headline.

More than 5,800 teachers were polled… and nearly three in five (59%) said they believe social media use has contributed to a deterioration in pupils’ behaviour.

Wow it seems like everyone here is completely credulous and happy to have their bias confirmed.

This is absolutely a kind of rage-bait.
I don't doubt that there's a growing segment of misogynistic boys who have been influenced by Tate and our society's general check-out when it comes to being communal and supporting each other and the absolute bullshit mess that social media and online dating has created for young relationships, the statistics are abysmal and worrying...
But that said, the large majority of all Americans at any age are still pretty much just getting through it like always.
These kinds of stories, while beneficial that they are highlight and showing us problems that need to be addressed, all they're doing without a prescriptive solution or counter-point is just wedging this division in our community further and further apart. It's making girls scared of boys. It's making boys scared that girls will think they're horrible misogynists, and thus they will be defensive at the ready accusations and the exchanges spiral from there.
It's revolting that we cling to hateful figures so readily. They give us validation for pent-up frustration and anger at a system that has abandoned us. That's why it's addicting to read about horrible things and horrible people. Which makes horrible things and horrible people. Our addiction to hating people is creating people like Tate, because our desire to hate someone makes us click on these stories over and over and feel that righteous outrage that seems to make everything make sense. It's addicting and we need to recognize it and stop imbibing in it.
I mean, I've worked as a teacher for eleven years and I don't know a single person who doesn't think that social media contributed to declining behavior standards. When I say, 'a single person', I am referring to other teachers or administrators. I am not using hyperbole. Nobody thinks it is good, everyone thinks it's bad, and every year we tighten the noose.
This is across three school districts and nine grade levels.
- I don't doubt you. Can you give examples of how it's changing their behaviour?
Yeah. It's sort of insanely ironic, to me, that it seems like the prevailing attitude in this comment section is to just eat this, hook, line, and sinker. Everyone's consuming internet disinformation that reinforces their biases right here. The exact thing they're complaining about, with the newer generation. Just as low, in terms of literacy, or the ability to distinguish. Everyone's so insanely eager to cite whatever anecdote their friend's friend who works at a school gives them, without a second thought, about how the kids today are just worse than the kids of yesteryear, and how social media is surely to blame. Reactive response to just ban your kids from using technology at all, which is a pretty good way to get them alienated from their peers and also not prevent anything at all since their peers will probably also be fully willing to expose them to whatever they get exposed to. It's awesome to see every generation become boomers over time, really cool.
Teachers have been complaining about the "manosphere" shit for a while

When I was 10, or 13 there were literally no issues like this at all. Well, I didn't even think about girls that much at that age, let alone in overly sexual way, lol.

What the actual fuck is happening with society recently? Is everybody going insane because of social media?

I was a rotten kid growing up with distant parents and a hostile sister.
If I'd had access to porn and comics without leaving the house, I'd have become one of these people.
This is why the tech bros don't want their kids growing up looking at screens.
- I'm not a bro, but my 9 year old son isn't allowed to watch YouTube unsupervised, because when I was 9 I found my way to 4chan.
- Comics?
- I think I just won't put a web browser on my child's computer.
  Should solve so many problems before they even appear.
Yes lol
Is everybody going insane because of social media
Well I can tell you its broken the minds of most of the old people I know, especially fakebook. Old people are seemingly unable to tell fact from fiction online, I mean all people have trouble with that to an extent but its hitting the older people especially hard. Most of them seem to think everything they are seeing from pure political propaganda to obviously fake advertising is 100% real.
We are headed for a world where half the people believe nothing and the other half believe everything which will be a disaster.
- Well from what I see it affects mostly old people and younger ones (at least if you trust media, I don't have any contact with people younger than 20, except my brother which is 6, so it doesn't really count). Millennials are probably the least affected ones.
When I was 10, or 13 there were literally no issues like this at all
Dunno when you were 10 or 13, but I will assume it's not true. Stuff like "Boys don't cry, you're not a girl are you?" were very common in the 80s and 90s. It wasn't as bad as today, but the foundations were already in place.
- Dunno when you were 10 or 13, but I will assume it’s not true.
  It was in late 00's, and in Poland if that's relevant.
  Stuff like “Boys don’t cry, you’re not a girl are you?” were very common in the 80s and 90s. It wasn’t as bad as today, but the foundations were already in place.
  Sure, but that's not really some hardcore misogynist shit, like what is happening today.
Divide and conquer 1%er propaganda systems.
Sorry but that's absolutely not true.
Boys not being allowed to cry, being man enough, strong enough has always been a thing since before anyone who touched the Internet was born.
This isn't new at all.
- You're talking toxic masculinity, he's talking about these children being inundated with propaganda via social media. Very few middle and high school students watched Fox news in the 00's whereas now it's being algorithmically jammed down their throats.
  Social media is going to cause the fall of the USA and it's so fucking sad to watch. Social media needs to be scheduled as/like a drug.
- Depends what OP meant by "problems like this". The specific problem in the headline sounds new; teachers were teachers when I was growing up.
Murica is doing typical murica things.
- Isn't this story about the UK?

Well the solution to that one 10 year old is pretty clear. Actions have consequences, if he wants to be a little shit he can repeat the grade next year after hard failing this one.

Andrew Tate should just put on the Taliban turban and be done with this charade. His entire schtick is Sharia for Americans.

He already converted to Islam
- Tho he seemed to be mixing up Islam with just the Najdi culture.

Yall didn’t see this coming with the red pill derived slang that kids have been using? They’re obsessed with their value. It’s terrifying and capitalism loves it.

I'm clueless, what slang are we talking about here, I doubt I'd know it if I heard it.
- I don't know much more than you, but they said it right in the comment. "They are obsessed with their value" Such as, "High value man" "low value man" ect
  I do know my 14 year old nephew is obsessed with making money in ways I never saw in my youth cohort
- Rizz, alpha/beta/sigma, mid, simp. A lot of importance placed on your value, your masculinity and a lot of overlap between gaming and red pill content.
  You got kids mewing trying to get their jawlines looking nice. Little girls obsessed with makeup and skincare. It’s wild and people think it’s all innocent. It’s not. It’s early indoctrination.
- It's from the Matrix, maybe you've seen it. For those who haven't here it is without giving any major spoilers: at one point one of the main characters tells the protagonist that if he wants to learn the truth he could take a red pill that he offers to him, but if he wants to remain oblivious and continue to live normally he should take a blue pill. They're using this analogy to describe how the media peddles as normal what they consider wrong values and ideas like lgbtq tolerance, feminism and so on.
  Needless to say, Tate is a big fan of that movie. So much so that he named his "course" the Matrix Academy. One of my former classmates actually paid for that nonsense. It was just a discord server and the lectures were useless. All the information there could be found for free on the internet by just doing a Google search or watching a few videos on Youtube.

Stories like this are what I think of every time the topic of regulating social media comes up.

We know it's programmed to create rage machines. We do, and then people act surprised when social media works as designed.

Fake Sky News is also a rage machine.

I truly thought that this Tate guy was a complete character like Borat. I'm floored realizing this is a real "person"? How does anyone care about helping this guy. Oh wait.

Speaking of Sacha Baron Cohen, here's Ali G's take on feminism.
I do wonder if he’s playing an act or just found a way to make money…it’s shitty either way.

The problem is he's a symptom of broader socialtal issues. Someone else will just rise to fill his place unless we work to address what caused him prominence.
- It's okay to treat symptoms of an issue whilst simultaneously treating the cause of the issue.
- Would make me happy for a week or so anyway
- There already are countless others, Tate is just one of the most prominent. Because of all his crimes.
- Luigi all the Andrew Tates of the world, then. Nothing of value would be lost.
  (I'd say it should be done through the legal system, but I live in the US, and laws are apparently only for attacking minorities and enemies of the regime now.)
- Banning hard drugs doesn't solve the underlying problem, but it makes them less widely available, which is a good thing. Ban him.

Parents need to raise their children and stop letting social media do it.

What if their parents are shitty and encouraging this type of behavior?
The Andrew tate type people tend to have kids because they want sex and that's all they think about. They don't think critically about contraception, or long term decision making. Then they either abandon the child/mother, or raise it to be an asshole.
- You’re not wrong. Parents can be contributing just as much to the problem. I guess the only common source would be social media in general.
Except social media raised the current parents of the Day. It's been 20 years dude. People don't know any different.
- Hm yea I guess so. I’m at the age where I grew up without it for a portion of time and then dealt with it in my teens. I never really used it that much though, and don’t use it all now, except for sites like these.
I grew up on hip-hop music. I still am addicted to it... But damn that culture is awful. Most regular people think it's just entertainment and art.... But that culture is deep and evil. I get disgusted with myself after listening to "real rap". I understand and feel it but at the same time feel as though I'm nurturing a negative part of my soul when I listen to it or celebrate it.
I guess I related your comment to music raising me in the 90s and 00s.
- I’ve had that realization a few times. I’ve been listening to rap music enjoying the beat, and then my brain shifts focus to the words, and I end up turning it off.
- I didn't really grow up listening to rap (as I grew up listening to all different kinds of music) but imo "real rap" is more like poetry and has a message or story to tell.
  Children's Story by Slick Rick Literally anything by Digable Planets Most of Q-Tip and ATCQ's stuff
  There are others, but that's all I can think of off the top of my head right now.
Ironically jokes about the internet raising children is very old. There was a comic strip in Mad Magazine from the late 90s that had a boy go ask his mom 'mom, if God made everything, who made God?' She replies to go ask his dad, and when he does his dad replies, ' go ask the internet!'
It is still funny, but given the incredible amount of disinformation out there it just is a really bad idea.
- For sure. It’s too much to keep up with, and now, it’s getting harder to tell what’s real or not.

This is totally a diffusion of social media issue. Twenty years ago, the media that kids had available for consumption was age rated. We had agreed as a society that certain things should not be visible to children until they grow up. It was possible to do because it was centralized (TV, movies, radio, print) and it was accountable to regulatory bodies and the rest of society. If a TV channel showed something as shitty as Tate style propaganda, there was institutional pushback, there were letters to the editor, there was someone specific to be targeted for accountability.

With social media being dominated by US style "freedom of speech" algorithms and US style acceptance of the impossibility (or even undesirability) of regulation and with completely unaccountable megacorps running them while giving very minimal if non-existent attention to who is watching what, we have a complete lack of age rating. We have given up on the idea of protecting childhood it seems.

Coupled with every fucking other issue being brought up in this thread, from COVID, to economic issues, to cultural misogyny, there is a perfect storm...

Countries, especially influential ones like the UK, that are suffering from this BS should band together and fine the shit out of megacorps like Google for allowing this filth to fester and the harm it's done so far, and also threaten to revoke their operational rights if they don't agree to strict moderation going forward.
Twenty years ago, the media that kids had available for consumption was age rated.
It was, still is, was ten years before, and trust me that didn't stop me one bit.
What's different then and now is the degree of choice people employ in their media consumption. It's not like there was no Nazi propaganda on the net in 1990, it's that who the fuck seeks that stuff out. The feeds that were choice-free were, yes, sanitised (TV, radio, though if you stayed of long enough TV would show rather interesting things), but also numerous. Like at least seven TV channels over the air, and plenty of radio stations (though most played shoddy music). Imagine having seven tiktok feeds you can't fast-forward but switch in between. On current algorithmic platforms, you skip something, get shown the next thing, algorithm learns about you, about how to draw its hooks specifically into you. Back in the days, you couldn't skip, switched away, and if there was only uninteresting stuff on the other channels you switched off. Internet? Age of web rings, search barely even existed. Anyone remember altavista?
I roamed the library, inhaled multiple series of books whole-sale, but in between, there was always this magic moment: Browsing. Looking at things, shaking them a bit, see if they're actually interesting. Great availability of things, yes, but also limited time, and preferences, so you got picky.
That's the skill that's getting lost: People are outsourcing their consumption choices to algorithms. Worse, ones who care about nothing but retention, how can they keep you hooked so you watch more ads.
...which btw ties back into youth protection. Ratings etc. exist but the general consensus in youth psychology is that as soon as youth seeks something out by themselves, they're ready to consume it. Ratings are there so that kids don't stumble across things inadvertently, not so that they are completely unable to consume it. A hoop to jump through, maybe some secrecy, all that is a proper framework, "they think it's not for me, I think otherwise", puts the mind in the right inquisitive-but-cautious frame. That, however, presumes a choice algorithm that's running in your head, and not in the cloud.
And meanwhile, "media literacy" is understood as "spotting fake information". BS. Any information will become true to anyone if you allow it to be fed to you without getting your own agency involved. The question is less "are kids able to sniff out BS" -- they by and large are. The question is whether they have the power to say "I choose not to continue down this path", whether they have trained that muscle. Because without that no amount of skill in spotting bullshit will save you.
With social media being dominated by US style "freedom of speech" algorithms and US style acceptance of the impossibility (or even undesirability) of regulation and with completely unaccountable megacorps running them while giving very minimal if non-existent attention to who is watching what, we have a complete lack of age rating. We have given up on the idea of protecting childhood it seems.
...and you have clearly given up any pretense of not being extremely authoritarian it seems, what the hell does "freedom of speech algorithms" even mean? Rhetorically you are completely mixed up about what is going on and what the solution is, I am amazed you made it here to the fediverse.
We had agreed as a society that certain things should not be visible to children until they grow up.
Do you have evidence the systems we employed to do this actually didn't make problems worse? As far as I can see, it is also just overly righteous adults desperate to fix the world in ways that don't make them look inwards and question the policies they support and the beliefs they hold.
- I missed a comma before "algorithms" it seems.
  The kind of "extreme authoritarianism" you're pearl clutching about is literally the age ratings system that was in place in the late 90s. Get a grip.

Fail em. It'll be hilarious to the next group of kids who see someone his age in their class. And then the next

That's not how it works in the UK. Everyone progresses through school regardless of how you perform.
- Also known as kicking the can down the road.
  If you don’t fail a kid in elementary school they’re gonna fail in high school. If you don’t fail them in high school they’re gonna fail in university or in life in general.
  Life has consequences for making mistakes and not learning from them. If we try to shelter children from their mistakes and bad habits then we raise adults who are poorly equipped for handling the challenges of life.
  When I was in first year of university I met so many nice, seemingly-well-adjusted people who hit a brick wall with their coursework. I believe around a third of my peers failed to graduate at all in their programs. Many dropped out or transferred to other departments or other universities.
  But here’s the thing: my peers had already been subject to a rigorous selection process to get in (only about 10% of applicants were admitted). If you had put all applicants through the rigours of the coursework far more would have failed.
  The really tragic part of this whole story is when you factor in the degrees of the consequences for failure. In elementary school the consequences for failure would be very low. Children who are older than their peers tend to outperform them anyway. In university, however, the consequences for failure are very high (thousands of dollars wasted on failed courses that need to be repeated).
  The consequences for failure outside of school (real life as they call it) are even higher: unemployment, homelessness, incarceration, and even violence and death.
- I remember there being someone held back a year. I think it happens.
With the "no child left behind" act, it's really turned into pass every kid no matter what.
Everyone talks about reading, did y'all know for a number of years schools stopped teaching phonics and instesd introduced sight words? Aside from many parents handing over an ipad instead of reading to their young children- the schools dropped phonics for the last 5 years or more in place of "sight words". I believe they've seen the damage and have gone back to phonics now, but there is a whole generational cohort who got fucked now.
Im glad I read to my son. Im glad I never gave him Internet access outaide of supervised educational time, or watching cat videos together. My son, who is in special education for learning disabilities, is one of the best readers in his class, and this year(6th grade) started in with Gen Ed and is excelling there too!
Reading is so good for children. As a toddler and beyond it is easy to bake into bedtime routines. Bedtime took 30-60mins, and we created so many memories for both of us. I'll always remember the silly voice I used to read the Dogmans' "haw-haw-ha-ha" laugh. Close familial bonds keep these kids from feeling alone and turning to social media for support.
- With the “no child left behind” act, it’s really turned into pass every kid no matter what.
  I fucking hate that act so goddamn much.
No one fails. You can't drive yourself to elementary school.
- Lol, you know society screwed up when there's a "Student Parking" section at your local elementary schools.
That's good, just fuck 'em without disregard. Great model to follow.

can you blame boys for aspiring to this

They can all fail and become bitter incels together

And harm other people in society while they are at it
- The beauty of this movement is, that no woman would accept a man like that as a father to her children
- They were already doing that.
Sure, let's not try to help them and just fuck them instead.
Seriously, it's this attitude and name-calling that drives these lost boys in the influence of pigs like Tate.
- Sure, let's not try to help them and just fuck them instead.
  How society collectively decided to design the Millennial experience lol.

Fine, just fail them. This is a problem for the parents to address. And if the parents refuse, then they can enjoy having a child who lives off of benefits and aspires to be an "influencer". Lol.

In 10 years, it seems we not only gave up our own nations’ dreams of equality and union, but lustfully decided to lick the boots of those telling us our dreams aren’t worth having. It doesn’t help that the self-proclaimed “leader of the free world” is a known rapist who cuts deals with the Taliban at the expense of women’s liberties.

Its also just kinda gay. Wanting a man to dominate everything you do is just gay
I remember in the first few years after 9/11 when you had Islamophobes talking about Islamic radicalism and comparing western culture to Islamic culture in what was, retrospectively, the most arrogant and extremely naieve view imaginable. Basically envisioning the entirety of the west in the late 90s and early 2000s as the west always being like that and the then status quo was done via some philosophical debate and innate characteristics instead of whatever was politically and economically convenient at the time.
I wonder where those people are today? Seeing just how legit fragile their whole order really was and how quickly it is unraveling.

Some of you need more empathy. These are children whose insecurities are being exploited for profit. Be mad at their parents, and be mad at figures like Andrew Tate. But these are children and they deserve more grace than that.

Those little shits should be slapped by their mom's when they get home from school. Suburban trash.

I'd think by their fathers, so that it doesn't pidgeon hole them into further misogyny
- There's a lot more to flesh out, but I agree 100% with this basic principle. I'm looking back & idk other than the occasional spanking when I was very little, most physical discipline was administered by my father. Even if I crossed my mother.
  It reinforced traditional gender roles, and frankly I think it subconsciously implies....a solidarity & mutual respect between the partners in a marriage. My father stood up for, and backed, my mother. They parented mostly gently, but also firmly, in lockstep. Were they perfect? Of course not. But generally speaking I think it worked pretty well.
They can listen to Tate all they want, provided they get straight As.
(or maybe 1 hour of Tate for every 3 hours of feminists such as Gloria Steinem)

Watch the series Adolescence (Netflix)

Next to the fact that every. Hour long. Episode. Is a one-take, it shows that this phenomenon is real. It is based on a true story and I won't spoil anything, but it gets dark from the second it starts.

why periods in weird places?
- Unlike the reference series, the comment was not done in 1 take and didn't have the budget for professional editing.
- Just read it out loud (even in your head) and you'll notice it's adding pauses for emphasis. Whether it's good style or not is a different question, but the why seems pretty clear.
- Either a 3rd grade drop out, or someone too old to remember what they learned in 3rd grade.
The series is addressed in the article

Just proves he attracts the immature mind

Uhh, I mean, yes. But that's not the big own you think it is. He is SPECIFICALLY targeting children. It's the entire basis of his grift.

Where are the parents, if my son pulled that shit I would put him a position where he MUST listen to and work for women until he realizes how ridiculous he is.

Great way to raise a serial killer.

I think about just how many shitty fathers these kids have, most of them in the maga cult that are lapping up the likes of Carlson and Peterson's lessons on red pilled bullshit and condoning the behavior of their kids (albeit from a notably absent distance).

If their dads are so shitty, how come they got to have kids?
Who keeps having sex with these awful men and enabling their toxicity?

Send them to a Catholic male-only school, which incidentally is also one of the most right-wing places I can imagine. Let's see how long they remain up to their "masculine" standards.

Abuse isn't the solution to miseducation.
- I am just saying that they don't know what they are asking for with this behavior: such places already exist and they are abusive to their own members.
Imagine believing that catholic school cures people of their misogyny. Wow.
- Wow, just wow. Are you Drax?
The nuns at my father’s Catholic school were brutal. They would slap you with a yard stick if you talked back.
- As an old enough Italian, I can assure you that my friends who attended those schools in the 90s still received the same treatment and especially that teachers in public schools who attended those schools kept telling us of how they dreamed of doing that to us.

oh the society is totally not turning to shit because of terminally online kids. No worries at all.

Research from anti-fascism organisation Hope Not Hate, which polled about 2,000 people across the UK aged 16 to 24, discovered that 41% of young men support Tate versus just 12% of young women.

That is quite a worrying statistic: 41% of young men endorsing a human-trafficking misogynist rapist.

Sometimes I wonder if the Internet should only be allowed for people 21 or 25 years or older.

21 is the new 16... 25 is the new 21.

But... At the same time older adults are extremely dumb too.

But giving a young person access to the Internet is like letting them walk NYC alone at night during the 70s.

Ever since Facebook and 9/11 the Internet has been kind of awful.

The problem is unfettered access, not access at all.
- Forums with paywalls have always been way more civil so I agree.
The problem is that parents - apparently - have no interest in educating their children anymore. They just place their kids in front of a PC or give them an iPad so they can watch TV or something.
Forbidding people from accessing the internet is going to raise a generation of children unfamiliar with it and then drifting off completely. Just look at the NK soldiers when they were shipped to russia and first had access to the internet. Half of them became porn addicts.
- And also educating themselves. The kids will learn stuff, including slang, memes and concepts that are unknown to parents that don't spend as much time on these platforms. So they won't even recognize problematic ideas.
Honestly, at this point, I'm on board with just banning social media algorithms entirely. No more personalized feeds. You can have a website that publishes whatever you want, but you can't tailor individual feeds to individual people. People can replace their "feed" with what the original internet was meant to be - visiting a series of websites. Want to read nothing but right wing blogs? Fine. You can spend all day navigating to different URLs for them. But no more spoon feeding individually personalized content to people.
It turns out that method of content delivery is just a very dangerous and damaging technology that really fucks with the workings of the human mind. If you tell AI to build an ideal feed model for a person, it builds a nightmare that traps human beings in skinner boxes.
We can ban these algorithms. We don't have to continue to tolerate their existence. And in the grand scheme of history, it would be no different than a thousand other things that we discovered, at first thought was a panacea, but eventually decided the benefits weren't worth the costs. Asbestos is a fantastic fireproof insulator, but we willingly let those benefits go in lieu of its severe respiratory effects. DDT is an incredible pest killer and insecticide, but it also was rendering entire species of birds extinct. Targeted, individually tailored social media algorithms create entertainment feeds that can entertain us to such degrees that the kings of old would lament their jesters in comparison. But what these algorithms are doing to us, what they are doing to our society? On political polarization? The effects they are having not just on children, but of people of all ages? We as a society need to recognize that the benefits just aren't worth the costs. We are tearing our civilization apart for the sake of cheap entertainment.
We need to ban targeted social media feeds. We have faced technologies like this before. We have made the choice before to give up the benefits of these things for the sake of the greater good. We've done it before, and we can do it again. It is time we ban targeted social media feeds.
Dude, we're all stupid. We are all effected by the Internet and propaganda algorithms. We are not superior, most of us just don't realise we're programmed. Exactly the same as Gen Alpha, Zoomers, Gen X and Boomers. We're all profiled and we all see how everyone else is a victim of indoctrination. That's how this works, social engineering innit?
is like letting them walk NYC alone at night during the 70s.
One can get smart doing such—at times very quickly.
Facebook was tame.
It's twitter, reddit, instagram, and tiktok that really set people off. They just weren't prepared to handle the forces at play when you let people communicate with no accountability.
Glad I grew up realizing that most people on the internet are just losers who can't function in the real world so they use the digital space as a crutch.
Really makes it easier to deal with the hysteria, apathy, narcissism, insecurity, and cognitive dissonance I see from many users.
- I don't mean that about Facebook. Facebook transitioned the Internet from being a cyber ecosystem of absolute freedom and anonymity where people existed freely with expression to a an extension of non-cyber life, I feel like people understood the internet was place where people were free, because it wasn't real. The internet was not real life and that was almost universally agreed upon. After facebook the Internet became a place connected to real life identity and it became a base standard. ...I think this helped create the real-world enshitification of our physical social communities. The transition to the idea that the Internet is real life is something that wasn't talked about or agreed about.

We're in for a very, very stupid future.

Idiocracy isn't just a great movie that holds up, it's a accurate depiction of the future and it has electrolytes, it's what plants crave

Social media and the rise of influencers is the downfall of humanity.

Humanity? This isn't happening in every country. The west is not all of humanity.
- There aren’t influencers in the east?

The funny thing is that people like Tate would be the first to be eaten when the world ends lol

I have young kids. This shit terrifies me honestly.

Tate should get into a fistfight with a hot femboy and lose, his ego (and by extension those of his followers) would probably won't be able to take that.

Tbh he'd probably win. He's a decent martial artist.
- Yeah before he was a Youth Pastor for the Church Of Misogyny (where jesus is replaced with EVEN MORE MISOGYNY) -- He made his name as a competitive MMA fighter.
- I bet I'd kick his ass
- How is he at pistol duels?
Tate is too busy rolling his scapula up to give the appearance of traps to get into a fight.
3 games each with a woman: chess, poker, and billiards (1 8-ball, 1 snooker, and 1 carom)

So? You get a F, you get a F, you get a F...

First. If the kid doesn't want to talk to the teacher then put the kid into detention until they will. If the kid misses more then a certain number of days of class. Make them take the entire grade again. Fail them.

Second (and I'm not sure how we would do this) cut them off from the internet. There are books in the library for doing research.

These kids already have been left behind by someone and they filled the void with people telling them it wasn't their fault.
And your solution is to leave them even more behind? That's just compounding the problem.
The solution is guidance and therapy. What you're describing is retaliation.
- Gotta love how many self-identified leftists we have that are actually confused authoritarians.
- These kids already have been left behind by someone
  It's like bullies. People always come down hard on bully kids. They rarely act like that naturally, they learned this behaviour. They're probably being abused at home. Coming down hard on them just makes them more angry and confused.
  You have to figure out what is making the kids act the way and address that.
- Agreed.
  It's a good thing most of the people on these forums don't have much influence on the outside world.
Second (and I’m not sure how we would do this) cut them off from the internet.
There are a whole bunch of ways to monitor, limit, and even cut off your kids internet usage. If you get your kid a cell phone or computer, you can install apps to monitor and limit what they watch and when. The fact that parents just let their kids freely use the internet with no supervision blows my mind.
Maybe check if Sky News is making stuff up first?

Sky news wishes it was

I can really recommend the mini series Adolesence on Netflix (or wherever) to get a great, dramatized example of how this effect looks like.

If that is where America is heading, to some theocracy like Iran and where men see women as chattel, then I would rather raise children elsewhere there is a culture of empathy.

The world is fucked and always has been. Humanity are horrible evil beings.

No
What these boys need are good role models
I grew up with being bullied, star trek, and karate. All taught me a lot about what it is, means, and implies to be good, be bad, and how to behave like a proper human being.
Today's kids have weird or no role models at all and most of them are just lost. Even Andrew Tate himself is a victim of this. I sldont see Tate as evil,.i see him as a sad little man that always needs to posture lest someone sees what a real loser he is. Even the raping is just him kicking others down to make others think he's so strong whereas in reality he is such a pathetic little man. I know the type, unfortunately.
In any case, i think we need much more wholesome YouTube channels where we have real men showing how real should behave, both through strength and thoughtfulness
- Even Andrew Tate himself is a victim of this. I sldont see Tate as evil
  Victim, possibly. Not evil? Fuck no, I bet he's fully aware of the shit he does, how bad it is for people that listen to him and society as a whole, yet he keeps doing it. That's evil.
- Won't happen. We have gendered these political issues so much the alt right owns the entire gender. I vote dem, but doesn't mater because so many people see the entire group as nothing but dangerous fascists. These kids are being told the alt right is their pary and they get from both sides. Now they are are Worthless shits.
- There's a distinct lack of firm males in our society.
  We're literally going to have to create the male role models that are needed.
Hey, I am not evil! I am Sexy!
- You can be both?
This doomer shit is worse than useless - it encourages apathy and inaction.
Not all of humanity or we would not even be here.
I read a VN where aliens were asked to intervene, and solve the problem of humans being evil.
The main idea behind the aliens is that emotion is literally toxic to them. If you persistently shout at one in anger, the alien can actually die.
After some major periods of civil unrest, half of humanity started to advocate a symbiotic relationship with the aliens. They're inserted into a human subject, replacing most of their biological functions, but also adding the weakness to strong emotion.
You can see how people bound to an alien wouldn't support Tate. Tate wants to spread hatred, or strong feelings of superiority, but those feelings could actually hurt someone bound to an alien. Therefore, people bound to aliens would rather exile or imprison Tate instead to end the threat he poses to their health.
Amusingly, the alien people get so powerful in the VN that Tate and a bunch of supremacists who hate him have to work together so they don't get wiped out.

I grew up in Dubai and most of my teachers were women. None of the boys ever gave any lip on account of their sex. If they did, the teacher wouldn't need to discipline them... we would.

Makes sense in one of the most consumerist places on earth.

There was always a large number of stupid kids who were jerks in school, but it was always hidden behind a mentality of stern rebukes of fights and an occasional suspension. Now, all of those same types of moronic assholes have a digital distillated stream of garbage that fits with their natural tendancies, putting these idiots into hyperdrive.

Honestly, it's probably better that the problem gets worse so that it unmasks the high amount of bullying and abuse that's normally accepted in schools.

Worst of all, when bullies harass and attack and beat people over and over in school, on the rare occasion when a student defends themself, the defender often ends up charged because "cool" bullies get a free pass unless bones are broken or the victim dies, while uncool victims are castigated by schools for defending themselves. The unfortunate recent charging of the innocent Karmelo Anthony with murder for refusing to be bullied by some asshole jock is an excellent example of this.

Andrew Tate is not the problem, this problem has existed for a long time with school just letting it fester. Tate at least finally makes the problem noticeable. The problem has always been school administrators who allow this sort of stuff to happen.

- Yep, I believe you.
  A lot of times people who teach in schools were not the popular kids, but they were not unpopular either. (Because no one unpopular would want to be in a school given how unpopular kids are treated.) And it's almost like these teachers and admins want to relive their glory days, but this time they are cool, and they do this by actually trying to be liked by the popular kids, lying to themselves and thinking if things had been slightly different they would have been really popular instead of just mildly liked or that somehow they've become cooler. And popular kids certainly innately see this and milk it, exploiting it for all its worth. It's disgusting and pathetic and enables all sorts of bullshit. The popular kids give the teaxhers admins the occasional joke and smile, making them the cool teacher or admin, cementing the cycle of favoratism. It's actually worse than just lookism, there's this weird psychological interplay between people just on the outskirts believing they could have been in the inner circle and people highly socially intuitive exploiting that, plus neither verbalizing the phenomenon. Ocassionally administrators are teachers were really popular in high school, making it even worse, but mostly it's the "almost popular" kids who wind up back in school and allow a corrupt unsafe bullying environment to evolve/devolve.

Then BEAT THEM SENSELESS AND REMOVE THEIR SCREENS

So what happens when they grow up and start beating you senseless because they learned that violence is a quick and easy way to get people to do what you want them to do, rather than something to be used as a last resort?
- I can't help but notice that all of the radical fascists that have taken over all of media and politics all happen to be of the age that were given timeouts. Seems that none of them learned how to respect other people's free agency.

I read this and thought something didn't add up. If all Tate ever did was disrespect women and treat them like property, nobody would care about him. Unsurprisingly, the truth is more complicated. See this for example.

The manosphere appeals to its audience because it speaks to the very real lives of young men [. . .] romantic rejection, alienation, economic failure, loneliness, and a dim vision of the future.
The major problem lies in its diagnosis of the cause of male disenfranchisement, which fixates on the impacts of feminism. Here it contrasts the growing challenges faced by men with the increasing social, economic and political success experienced by women. This zero-sum claim posits that female empowerment must necessarily equate to male disempowerment, and is evidenced through simplified and pseudoscientific theories of biology and socioeconomics.

If Tate's appeal is not addressed, things will get worse.

The kind of people that think Tate is a hero should be snuffed out lol

A lot of young boys had an "edgy" phase. Let's hope this is somewhat true here as well.

The only good think andrew tate has said is to work on building yourself and work hard. Beyond that, his talking points do more damage to society and bring a lot of harm.

Broken clock yadda yadda

Due these Andrew Tate fans happen to come from a country that devalues women?

I've seen them not wanting to work with women due to some religious fundamentalism.

The left coild have done more to court these kids. To late now my gender is a lost cause and every moment is a reminder. I hate this I hate my gender.

Yeah, the left should have done more. It's not too late. We can recognize young white men and turn things around. Do not hate your gender; hate toxic masculinity.
- People are talking about showing that show Adolescence in schools. They are basically dubling down. At this point you are more likely to get Republicans to respect women.

Good, grbage humans won't pass on their genes

I'm sorry but misogyny and sexism is basically a tradition in the UK. Culturally encoded white behavior.

I'm a white male in the UK and not once have I ever felt the need to be misnogy and sexist
- Has anyone ever referred to your speech impediment as "the queen's english"? Did it bother you? Congrats, you were successfully indoctrinated into being a sexist white pig without even realizing it! Good show old sport pip pip
Nice ragebaiting lmao.
Racist
- Holy shit did i actually find the thing we can be racist against the whites with? You're all sexist pigs because you're white?

I swear people refuse to take accountability for anything. It’s not social medias fault. This is POOR PARENTING. Plain and simple.

So over a few years millions of parents decided to collectively take a hard pivot into bad parenting? Couldn't possibly be an unprecedented media environment with algorithmic targeting?
- No but a generation? Yes 1000%. Parents are responsible for their children. Their media usage, their behavior at school, literally everything. A child can not be held accountable by themselves. It won’t ever happen without teaching them. Parents are responsible for teaching their kids manners.
  If you believe the answer to this problem is banning social media, you are not looking any deeper than this article and are falling for click bait.
- iPad babies.
People won't even take accountability for believing this phony clickbait headline.
Poor parenting is certainly an issue, but saying "it's not social medias fault" is like saying the opioid epidemic "isn't Purdue's fault". The people who manufacture and distribute the addictive and harmful product should be the first ones we go after. No amount of individual accountability will solve the problem as long as multi-billion dollar corporations are pumping this shit out 24/7.

It would be interesting to know how many children are becoming more ambitious in school. I recently read an article about how more and more girls feel so much pressure to be the best in class that they start controlling their food intake (the only true control they feel they have) leading to anorexia. Two very different but scary extremes.

I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at. Can you elaborate for me?
- I'm actually not sure why so many people down voted my comment, but I'll try to explain. This article is about boys who don’t respect women or girls. I read another article about girls trying their best but still struggling due to pressure. So I’ve read two very extreme cases, and both articles present it as something widespread. The big issue seems to be social media.
  It made me wonder how kids are doing in school, are they more ambitious now but struggling because of mental health? I saw in the comments that a lot of kids are doing poorly.
  Just to clarify, I think it’s bad regardless of the reason or how many kids are affected, gender doesn’t matter, and my comment was never about that.
  How did you (and maybe others) read my comment? I want to learn to communicate better for next time.

The solution to false masculinity is to replace it with real masculinity. Men who speak well of women, who practice custody of the eyes, who willfully suffer for the good of others, and who do hard things. We used to promote examples of such men but that time seems to have passed.

The solution to false masculinity is to replace it with real masculinity
The overwhelming majority of men think Tate is a dumb twat, it's just that being a regular man doesn't get clicks or attention in the clicks and attention economy
- Okay maybe a majority, but "overwhelming majority"? No way. There are a lot of incels in America.
  Edit: I somehow managed to forget that the article is about Britain.
Eww, keep that religious garbage far away from children.
- Wow. It takes a special (in a bad way) sort of person to see an article about a guy who died in the place of another person in the Holocaust and go "ew, religion".
- Yeah.... it seems to me that one of the problems is actually that we kinda threw organized religion into the trash bin and replaced it with .... nothing. So is it weird that people fill that void with also total garbage?
  Perhaps there was a reason why only socities with strong organized religions survived to this point?
Do these real men include all the pedophile priests all over the years? Because for sure those times have not passed and are from way way back.
- Do these real men include all the pedophile priests
  No.
  Doctors who help the less fortunate should be admired but there was a local pediatrician that was arrested for sex crimes against children. Don't emulate him.
  That's not hard to understand.
  Catholics got a lot of predatory priests for a time because it was one of the few professions where you could explaine away why you weren't interested in adult women. Most abuse was by homosexual men who had an itch for boys. If you look at their share of the population, these men were clearly the primary problem.
  They recruited others like them into seminaries and good men were driven away by their behavior.
  It took Pope Benedict XVI evicting them from the seminaries to reach an inflection point. But now any pervert can be rather openly perverted and, if they want boys, they'll be more successful as a teacher, coach, or scout leader.
  My local public school has had about a dozen arrests of these men in the past ten years. More are hidden in their ranks because everyone is looking at the priest and nobody is looking at the teachers. The problem didn't go away, it just adapted to other professions.
The hivemind seems to really hate you even though they'd probably agree the lack of good male role models is very much a cause of the incel epidemic.
- I'm not going to go into details because my english isn't very good and I'm liable to be misinterpreted, but it's not young males in every country who are having these problems. There are countries where the young males are doing great. If you want to understand the issues with young anglo males better look at the countries that don't have these issues and notice what they do differently.
  Exercise left to the reader
- they’d probably agree the lack of good male role models is very much a cause of the incel epidemic.
  lmao. Grow up.

Society when kids are no longer wearing a uniform, have the same haircut, answer with a stoic "yes madam" and can be beaten into submission in school.

This is a problem that needs to be dealt with with better schooling. More teachers and new and updated curricula.

Yes, maybe parents are getting "worse" or kids are less "behaved", but what would it matter?

Also I really doubt it. Kids probably have more things to deal with and struggle with that. Same goes for parents I think.

"Society when kids are no longer ... beaten into submission" is exactly the take I needed to get my morning going!
- I meant that as it was in the past. Obviously it's bad. Not saying we should go back
As I'm collecting downvotes I realize that my post can be read as a defense of kids that like andrew tate.
Fuck tate and all other rightwinger fascists.
I meant to direct my comment at people who say "kids these days are bad".
- I don't know about other downvoters, but i downvoted you because you said kids should be beaten into submission at school. Corporal punishment is the refuge of bad parents and it's not a teacher's job to harm your children that way. There is not a single justifiable reason that you need to be physically violent with a child to educate them. In fact, that only makes it worse. You either raise a fearful child or a hateful one. Either way, in my book, it's child abuse and you were calling for it.
  And boy would i cause all sorts of sky falling down trouble on the poor soul that decided to physically assault my child, undoing my job of teaching that violence is only a tool of self defense. I suffered significant corporal punishment growing up and i can guarantee it improved my life in no way.