Is that bad?
Is that bad?
255 comments
-
-
Holy fucking shit this isn't just a meme, wtaf is going on at Microsoft.
The FOSS aficionados of Lemmy will probably be quick to tell me it's always been shit, but this seems like a marked increase in bad decisions in the past 5-10 years
-
If you go back to an older version of Windows, it becomes clear how bad Microsoft has become. Try Windows 95 and you'll be surprised how clean it is. How few distractions the OS is showing into your face. How tidy the menus are and they also give you little hints for the keyboard shortcuts
-
little hints for the keyboard shortcuts
FYI, those are called menu mnemonics. 😊
-
I used to do V Dash contracts for MSFT.
I knew that the Xbox 360 3RR, red ring of death problem... was so bad, that it actually would have been more cost effective for MSFT to give each buyer two 360s, instead of one, at the same price, because of how mismanaged the RMA process was... I knew a whole bunch of such details a almost a decade before the documentary on it came out.
Yay NDAs.
...
I was also there during the Windows 8 rollout.
Shut down basically everything for a month, because MSFT 'dogfoods' all their software: Every MSFT worker is beta/alpha testing all MSFT software all the time.
We spent weeks just, unable to have more than 3 windows open at a time, half the tools we used on a daily basis just not working.
We asked them to let us go back to 7, asked them if therr was some way to return to a 7 like GUI.
For weeks they said nope, impossible, Win 8 is an entirely new GUI, totally new OS, the Win 7 GUI isn't there.
Oh then uh, weeks later, yeah, yeah it actually is there, you just have to follow this arcane override proceduren to see and use it.
... And then they just relented, put the non tablet UI fully back in, and called that Windows 8.1.
...
Windows is now layers upon layers upon decades of insane spaghetti code.
Even in Win 10, which was the last version I ever used... there are like 3 or 4 different eras of UI, for various settings menus, which people sometimes need to actually use... but they are considered legacy and thus not important.
Sometimes some newer era UI menus will have some of the options from some of the more buried stuff, but not all of them.
It is a gigantic fucking mess.
-
Boiled lobster effect at work.
If you bought a top of the line computer in 1990, it would barely have been able to run Win95. It wouldn't have been able to run Win98 at all. Conversely, even with Win11 obsoleting a lot of systems due to TPM, there are plenty of 7 or 8 year old systems that will still work with it just fine.
Win95 was a leap in complexity compared to Win3.1/DOS 6. It replaced a sloppy, manual memory management system with a sloppy, automatic memory management system. It created the registry system as we know it, and instantly got a reputation as a fast way to ruin your system.
Do you like files named "big long name.txt"? Because sometimes that will come out as "biglon~1.txt" or something like that. It was still using the same shitty FAT system, now with 32-bit extensions that technically allowed long file names, but had to shorten them for compatibility with older stuff.
Win98 added Active Desktop, which made your desktop part of IE. This meant that every time IE crashed, your whole desktop went with it. Didn't necessarily need to reboot to fix it, but it cleared out your background and a toolbar thing. In a way, it was an attempt to do what Electron apps do now, except with Microsoft proprietary web stuff.
Oh, and once it got USB support, it sucked ass. It had to reinstall drivers if you plugged your keyboard into a different USB port than you usually did.
Neither Win98 or ME would fix its memory management issues. That had to wait for Microsoft to get off their ass and release a home version of NT with WinXP (sorta Win2k, but that's complicated). This memory management issue was the root cause of most BSODs at the time.
People hated Windows at the time for exactly the same fundamental reason they hate it today: it's a clunky piece of shit. Win 7/8/10 was actually an attempt to simplify things in many ways, but Microsoft has fallen back to what they did before.
-
Oh how I miss the beautiful simplicity of Win95/98/NT UIs. It seems as our screens have become larger, they found more shit to put on them that I don't want to see.
-
I look forward to a glirchy vibe coded OS that uses embeded AI for everything, yet some people still manage to turn into a demented semi-functional ecosystem. Probably mostly run by seniors and computer illiterate consumers who just "want latest tech" for bragging rights.
-
I have a very feeble 25-year-old computer running Windows 2000 on a low-wattage CPU for embedded systems, and it feels far more responsive than Windows 11 on my desktop with an AMD 5950x. And I dual-boot Linux, which also feels much faster than Windows 11.
-
Oh man, thank you for this nostalgia trip your image sent me on!
-
There did not yet exist channels of psyop slop that could pay MS to give them access to their users at their most vulnerable or it would have been in Vista.
-
And the consistent ui.
-
Clean and usable. It's not like Windows 3.1 or 68K-era Mac OS - or modern Windows - where everything's flat. Undifferentiated. Lacking visual hierarchy, despite necessary functional hierarchy. Windows 95 managed relief shading and instant on-click skeumorphism in sixteen colors.
Nowadays they're afraid to put text on buttons. The buttons don't even depict things! You get a field of abstract squiggles, all with the same color and weight.
And it's not like Windows 95 was built for experts. There's a "click Start" animation on first boot, it offers a "Windows tour" on every boot, and everything sprouts a tooltip if you hesitate. They treated users like distracted idiots - unlike today, where they treat you like a child.
-
A new coat of paint and a spotlight style search and that’s a mighty fine OS.
Though it does need a lot of work for security, they really underestimated the internet on that one.
-
-
Business majors.
-
-
Same as everywhere else, management wants random shit done chop chop chop, fires actual developers who tell them they're the dumbest pieces of shit they've seen in this lifetime and hire random bros who say "whatever dude, just wanna get paid" then copy-paste google results because bing sucks.
-
Middle manglement is the source of nearly all bad decisions once companies get large enough to have it. Upper management is often dog shit, but they usually have an idea of what they want done. Whether that's. Net positive for consumers is a different story, but they don't intend for it to be implemented poorly.
Middle manglement then takes that, fucks it up putting each of their little stamps on it as it hits every rung on the ladder as it works it's way down to the people that have to implement it.
-
-
Is Growth Mindset. Don’t you have Growth Mindset?
-
I was expecting it t9 at least be a XAML C# app
-
-
Don't they have like 9 graphics libraries and frameworks accross 4 languages already?
-
It's actually at least 13.
-
I remember people arguing that Linux having two main toolkits were holding it back back in 2000-2010 but then Microsoft invents a few billion UIs just for itself. Even the one big megacorp can't be bothered to keep things consistent.
-
They need to scrap all this shit and take a massive step back and start over. Absolute bollocks.
-
What MS needs is a new unifying framework and then they can change everything to that new standard. Call it Framework 927.
-
-
-
Oops I pit my mouse in the bottom left now its loading 50 web pages filled with ads under the guise of being a widget
-
it needs to check your license and onedrive files for DRM compliance. every click
-
I had to test it. That is wild.
-
I have a Windows laptop for the first time in well over a decade for a project I am working on. Even though it is overpowered (i7, 64gb ram), and it is currently "idle", the cooling fans are working overtime because the damn OS is always busy doing some random shit when "idle". This is AFTER I ran a debloat script. It was near impossible to use before then.
EDIT: I found the cause of the fanning issue and different behavior between Win 11 and Linux (Pop!_OS). Even though the laptop comes with an Nvidia RTX 4000 series GPU, Windows 11 set the global default GPU to be the integrated graphics (Intel UHD). The same laptop under Pop!_OS automatically set the default GPU to Nvidia. As soon as I dug this up and switched the settings to Nvidia, the laptop stopped fanning full speed nonstop.
-
I don't get why people exaggerate this much. I have a laptop with a 7840hs and 32gb of ram so it's also "overpowered" but it's whisper quiet and consumes 30-45w while doing simple tasks. Consumption only increases if I'm running code, playing games, etc which makes total sense.
Windows is not a well optimized os and the telemetry sucks but you're just flat out lying with your claims. It's either that or your laptop has the worst possible cooling.
-
No exaggeration. I could literally record video at any time to show how it is fanning like crazy. If it is on, it is fanning like a jet plane.
EDIT: Problem found. Win 11 defaulted to integrated graphics even though the laptop has an Nvidia GPU. The same laptop with a Linux (Pop!_OS) install defaulted to the Nvidia GPU. That's just dumb.
-
I have a laptop that I dual boot Windows 11 and Ubuntu on.
If I leave the Windows desktop idle for >20 minutes the fans will almost always randomly flare up even though I'm doing nothing. On Ubuntu, the desktop usually stays silent, or sometimes the fans come on a little (probably due to bloated browser apps) but never flare up the way it does on Windows.
-
-
From where have you downloaded the script? Was it trustworthy?
-
This time around I used the Chris Titus Tech one, but there are a few other open source and reputable scripts out there.
-
Probably the raphire power shell script. Works pretty well, and is widely used as far as I know
-
-
Is it really? Does microsoft have no faith in its own user32 UI API?
-
Yeah, windows apps, even official ones are just a mix of react native apps.
-
-
It's why I'm gonna change to Linux permanently come the end of Win10.
-
The only realistic answer to the win11 situation. I chose bazzite because I like to game. It's a dream, I never looked back.
-
I've been seriously considering switching to Mint or Ubuntu since they're user friendly. The more I hear about win 11 the less and less I want anything to do with it. also, my pc isn't compatible so there's that 😂
-
I gave up on windows 11 last week after my downloads folder decided to stop opening any more. Every other folder worked fine, and I could use a save dialogue to see and navigate inside downloads, but if I opened the folder run file explorer I was met woth a never ending "working on it.." Screen. Hours of trawling useless Microsoft posts to see its a common issue but none of the suggested fixes worked.
I installed Pop! OS, which is essentially Ubuntu but Ive heard works very well with games. Few small hiccoughs getting used to the UI paradigm shift but its motoring along now with no problems. My 5 year old desktop is running much smoother with less overall resource use too. Feels snappier.
-
-
The easiest distro I have used so far it's Endeavour-Os (for my desktop). All my homelab uses debian except the mandatory W11 VM and a WS for veeam.
-
That's the reason I swapped.
So far it's been a good switch
-
Download the Mint live CD and give it a shot!
-
-
Do it now. It's great!
-
I'm already rocking Manjaro, put my old windows boot drive in a box in case I need it for whatever reason.
-
Mint + a game-box user myself :-)
Sometimes there is an old soft inly working on windows, but they are getting more and more rare as they no monger work on windows... Fantastic.
-
-
Same same, I just hope I can replace my dying PC before switching
-
I just did that, using Fedora KDE now, works great
-
-
-
-
There's also open shell if you like pre-W10 interfaces https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu
-
-
New CPU benchmark: 100 start menu clicks per second.
-
Recently something has changed and the start menu likes to search for apps in its browser (not my default app). I used to press windows key then type "snip" for the screenshot tool, now half of the time is does the wrong thing ...
Also here's a link to post talking about react in the start menu https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30384494
-
Yeah. It's quite obnoxious how bad they've made their OS and it's obvious they are FARMING searches on bing with these tactics lmao
-
glad I am not the only one. I even disabled the Bing and Websearch bullshit, but somehow in 1 of 5 cases the search result is not the software I am looking for. Even when I type exactly its name.
-
-
-
Fuck JavaScript in all its forms.
Ok, in a browser is fine. But HARD pass on electron and all this bullshit
-
Ok, in a browser is fine.
JavaScript was never fit for purpose even in a browser. We could've had Python or Scheme in the browser instead, but nooooo, Brandon Eich had to be fucking incompetent.
-
Good news: there's been talk to having python be part of the DOM.
I believe chromium has been working on it but no real thought on when this will happen.
-
-
I'm no programmer nor coder or such, I call myself advanced user only.
If having part of an app (I refer app as OS here, and start menu as part of an OS) to spike CPU/memory usage, does that means that part is not being used without being called? and leaves resources fully free? Sure big spike happen when the sub-part is called, but without being called?
IF part of an app is not even loaded while not used, isn't that actually good? I mean, depends how often that app part is called and have to load from the void.
I imagine that could be better than having unused part loaded all the time, wasting the resources?
Also, I totally skip part of poorly coded compared to old smooth and optimized code.
-
Yes, all things being equal, your understanding is valid. But let's do a car comparison.
You have your current car. It burns a little gas running idle, and much more when you're using the gas pedal to accelerate.
Now you buy a new, Windows 11 car, and it not only burns more gas idling, but when you accelerate it sucks down so much gas you can watch the gas meter go down.
The outrage is that the OS is so badly designed and implemented, something you do a lot causes everything else on your computer to slow down, and costs you extra in your electricity bill, because it is needlessly consuming irrationally huge amounts of CPU power to open a menu.
-
Well, yes, in some cases, but the start menu is something you interact with very often. The average user (and I mean office worker in their 40s)doesn't even pin items to the taskbar. As such, the main way to open apps is through the start menu. Think about this way. In this situation on a laptop, you either save ram or battery. Constant cpu spikes aren't good for energy efficiency. This also means hogging your ssd, which might be an issue in specific situations. On the other side, keeping the start menu fully in ram could be perceived as a waste, it really depends on how often you use the start menu and how much you value energy efficiency.
-
In case of the start menu, the sensible thing would be to optimize it sufficiently so that it doesn't hurt being kept ready constantly.
-
The crux of the problem is that clicking Start should display a low-resolution background image and 29 low-resolution icons, with some text and links. Bringing it to life should load a couple hundred k of disk into RAM and be imperceptible to the naked eye on the task manager.
My 12th-gen, 14-core processor that boosts to 3.5GHz should be able to do all that many hundreds of times a second without any serious stress.
Yet, I can click the start icon repeatedly by hand and hold my computer in excess of 40%
It's not a direct issue, and any modern computer will have no problem handling the load, but it calls out Win11 for attention to detail problems.
-
It's also pretty common to type Win + NameOfProgram + Enter, which necessarily opens the start menu and spikes the darn CPU. This has been a very common way to interact with the OS since Vista, and, as with so many other things in Microsoft land, has gotten worse.
WindowsKey -> "fire" -> Enter ==> Firefox is now open!
-
I've been trying to help my parents use Windows since the '90s. They still to this day have no idea what the Start menu is.
-
Much thx for explanation,
Looks like my understanding is valid - it is situational.
With a pointing to, I've noted most office workers do have apps pinned, by themselves or IT guy. Often even too many, like 3-4 web browsers lol. Also they rarely work on laptops, but office PCs. At least my country (Europe).
Also, could guess MS or most big tech companies may want users to make common parts used faster, to make them buy new faster :giggle:.
-
Reasonably advanced user in my 30s, I interact with it vs pinned icons because I don't like taking my fingers off the keyboard.
-
-
-
Any normal UI framework will unload UI elements when they're not shown. Yes, that means a CPU/memory spike is normal. But on a modern PC, that spike should be much lower than even 1%, which is why you can't typically see it.
-
-
-
This was my first thought. Maybe I'm way off the mark (I stopped using Windows in 2012) but I always thought the only thing it has going for itself is their toolkit. Not because it's pretty but because everyone writes applications for the same toolkit.
-
Why even building .NET, when they are rewriting typescript in go. It's Microsoft, often shoots itself in the other foot 🤪
-
Windows is not making much money, and they are reducing costs. Frontend devs are cheaper than dot net.
-
-
Switched to windows 10 a month or so ago just for ease of use with video games and mods. Man does windows suck ass. Wants to open random web pages, use dumb AI tools and give me useless info on every empty inch of screen space . At the end of the day it works but quality of life is low.
-
I have heard that Classic Shell is once again functional under Windows 11, but it was critically broken and thoroughly unusable for too long for me, and I have since moved on to StartIsBack, which can do almost everything I found essential with Classic Shell.
-
long time startisback user, even paid for it.
-
I use StartAllBack (I guess it's the same developer?) and love how it made File Explorer more robust again. :)
-
-
Remember when discord changed its android app to use react native?
They fixed most of it by now but god it was terrible back then
-
And it's a terrible app, at that. No organization, just either some random application links, or one giant list with no categories or organization past alphabetical.
-
there is massive financial incentives for these companies to write shit code because it makes people have to get newer computers
-
Clean code is more expensive than shit. That adds to the problem.
-
-
Switched to Linux at the beginning of the year. Still have a lobotomized local windows 11 boot for gaming/VR still though. Can't wait for the day I can finally get rid of it totally.
-
Depending on what games you’re running you might already be able to. https://lvra.gitlab.io/ https://areweanticheatyet.com/ https://www.protondb.com/
-
I'm rocking an LTSC 10 until 2027.
-
The latest Proton update finally fixed VR on linux for me. It's working like a dream now with my index.
-
-
My pc "spikes" from 6% to 11% but was only noticeable when I raised the update speed to high
Is that the spiking, and are other people seeing more?
-
Yeah, about 5-6%.
-
-
-
ExplorerPatcher https://github.com/valinet
Been using it for a few months, quite happy. Does not seem to spike CPU with my settings
-
Seriously? Got a link for that? (Not in a “I don’t believe you” way, but more of an “I’m curious to learn more” way)
-
Somehow this is hard to google, so sorry for linking to reddit, but here's a thread where people are discussing it.
(edit: looks like someone found a better source elsewhere in the comments)
-
Not to mention the memory leak and how the "Start" process in Task Manager increase RAM usage every time you click that.
LOL
-
Can add farside.link/ before reddit, YT, etc. links, for mirrors!
-
-
-
For what it’s worth, GNOME Shell and its extensions are written in JavaScript too.
-
Yet using React is a red flag for an OS. You'd imagine Microsoft has the means to make it work with just JS. I doubt they use 10% of the React depency. All for a start menu...
-
remember that interview with the microsoft chief imbecile that maybe somewhere somehow up to between 20 to 30 % or 10% of all of the projects is written by AI? https://pivot-to-ai.com/2025/05/13/if-ai-is-so-good-at-coding-where-are-the-open-source-contributions/ i think it makes sense...shitty copilot is more likely to suggest some react snippets to the intern tasked with making the start buttom than knowing anything about WinUI or other closed source shit. They should turn WinUI into a react wrapper like they did with powershell.... enshittify everything.
-
So is using JavaScript. If I find any enduring process running on my computer running JavaScript, I mercilessly hunt it down, murder it, then uninstall it.
The only application I allow to run JS is the browser, because the modern web is almost unusable without it. No other app needs it, and there's always an alternative that doesn't.
-
-
-
This is hilariously bad. I think it might be time to bring back some of the old "launcher" utils for Windows like Slickrun or Launchy.
-
They have power toys run now which is pretty nice and fast
-
I love PowerToys Run. The Command Palette is ass compared to it. PT Run is basically KRunner from KDE, and I'm absolutely here for it. Finding things (that you have properly indexed) is so fast and easy!
-
-
I love Launchy, never stopped using it.
-
-
Oh man that explains so many pains in the ass at work
-
Right?
Doesn't explain why the fucking lock screen does the same thing though and needs a Ctrl+alt+del just to free up resources
WHY WOULD IT EVER
WHYWHYWHYWHYWHYWHYWHYWHYWHYWHYWHYWHYWHYWHYWHY
-
-
If its react native it shouldn't slow down. It still does tho, mst be the 30% vibe code.
-
I'm foreseeing a spike in people asking me for help installing Linux.
-
He you there, totally random person. How do I install Linux?
-
Well first and foremost find yourself a distro you like, I'd suggest something Debian based if your just starting out but no judgement if you want to so to speak jump in the deep end. After that you'll grab a .iso file from wherever said distro keeps such things and you'll need to learn how to 'burn' that to either a USB drive or a regular disc if you want to do it old school. Then you'll need to learn how to get to either the boot menu or BIOS on your computer in order to get it to start from the new OS you've just plugged in. After that the install menu on the new distro should walk you through the rest. Don't worry, I know it sounds foreboding but I first did it as a kid, it's easier than it looks.
-
I’ve been experimenting with Linux for a year now running a home server. It’s not that hard, the other person’s comment is exactly what I did.
I used Ubuntu at first but when I fried it I figured I’d try Mint on my re-install. It’s been on Mint for about 4 weeks now.
My thoughts as a still relative newbie:
On both Ubuntu and Mint, user/group permissions are confusing to me even using the GNOME tools app. I wish I there was a better UI to set it up.
My issues are mostly to do with external drives. First of all, it’s weird that I even have to specify a mount point if I don’t want to have to memorize my drive’s device ID, but I figured that out.
Then in Ubuntu I’d reboot and my server software would lose access to the drives. If I unplugged them before rebooting and let it boot then plugged them in the server software could read but not write. So I’d have to do a sudo chmod 777 -R /external drives/ after rebooting too.
I’m having the same issue with reboots in Mint if I don’t unplug them, but if I do it now remembers the permissions now so I don’t have to do the terminal command. This may have nothing to do with the OS. Maybe I messed something up the first time. 🤷♂️ Point is: I’m not having fun dealing with external drives.
Ubuntu didn’t come with GNOME tools but Mint did. (It’s basically a set of apps for all your system settings. Command line is so annoying for this stuff.)
Aesthetically, Ubuntu reminds me of Mac OS while Mint reminds of Windows. Apparently they’re the same-ish under the hood.
I’m a Mac user and I’m not ready to switch my daily driver to Linux yet, but I’m sure I will one day.
-
-
-
Jesus I really need to install linux don’t I?
Is there a distribution that is better at running conversion layers like Wine? I need to run some windows only software (Solidworks, Affinity Suite…)
-
I've got Wine 9, running on Linux Mint. I mostly use it for older games and a few Windows programs like IrfanView. All my modern games I bought on Steam, run great under Linux. (Steam has a native Linux client and uses it's own Windows compatability layer called Proton to run games).
I use LibreOffice for productivity, Thunderbird for email and GIMP has a native Linux client, too.
-
I tried using vms or wine, which wasn't a good experience. But my computer isn't really the fastest. BUT i got an solution for you. I am using an old computer as a backup with windows. It needs an average gpu like an geforce 970. Then install sunshine and moonlite and connect to it. Its a software like remote desktop, but its so fast that you can play games, which is the original intend. But you can use it for Cad or other programs aswell, Iam still impressed that this works (and its open source)
-
I'm saving this comment because our engineering department has been complaining about rdp being too slow for CAD.
-
As someone who has been on Linux (openSUSE Tumbleweed) for almost 6-7 months now, I still don't understand how to get some of my programs running in Wine. I tried Bottles, and that's a little better, but it still leaves MUCH to be desired. I have two SSDs in my computer, one Windows and one Linux, and that's how I do some of my stuff. Lutris works for some things, but I generally don't like having 3-4 programs that are trying to do the same thing, but it only works on 1-2 of those programs. In my opinion, it's a little silly, but I've mainly just given up on trying to make all of that work and just boot into Windows when I need something done quickly without having to jump through hoops. I love Linux, but it is still lacking in some areas.
The best part about Linux, though, is that we can potentially fix our issues with a little bit of collaboration, whereas with Windows, you're stuck with whatever M$ wants you to have. It's something, at least! :)
-
-
For windows-only software, you can keep a copy of windows as a dual boot. Not the most ideal solution, but minimizing windows usage by any little bit decreases the chances of you getting annoyed at Windows.
Alternatively, if it's a lightweight software, you could run it in a virtual machine and use something like WinApps to blend it into Linux
-
-
You'll have to pry my Windows 10 launcher from my cold dead hands.
-
To think what lengths we went to keep the Win7 launcher
-
Everything since 7 has been a downgrade.
-
-
people have been saying stuff like this since Windows XP came out
-
This is why I use Open-Shell. Ever since MS decided that the entire program list should be in a tiny little scroll window I've been giving it the middle finger.
-
-
-
Every Facebook product is cancer including react
-
I can make my CPU usage jump from next to nothing as it sits on the desktop not doing anything, to 100% usage by just shaking my mouse around like a maniac. 😤
-
Can someone explain what "react native" is?
-
It's a javascript app that uses the react library - which is an open source library originated by Meta. It's supposed to be easier to maintain and port cross platform apps. However it is not as efficient as a native app and given the Start menu is so frequently used it's probably not a very efficient way to program it (or parts of it - I think the start menu has reactive native components rather than entirely made in it).
-
React is a Web UI framework. React Native is the same thing but compiles to a native Windows executable (without the performance benefit of native code).
-
-
At least my wallpaper transitions will stay smooth.
-
Can I replace Windows with SteamOS directly yet? -Basic Win11 user who is getting sick of Win11. Get off my WinXpLawn
-
Does anybody know if photoshop works on linux yet?
-
Old version of Photoshop works under wine,try also krita
-
No, but GIMP does.
-
That's all I'm waiting for
-
TBH I tried Photoshop's most recent version out a little while ago and it was ass. It's like 8 buttons and 5 of them were some kind of AI autofill bullshit.
-
-
Epic
-
-
no, but I heard Putin is coming out with big news soon
-
???
-
-
-
AFAIK, React is a Single-Page Web Application that refreshes everytime something changes. It's benefits are fast load times and lower overhead because it ONLY updates things that are changed on re-render, but the downsides are that it relies on other libraries for things like multiple pages, etc.
So for it to be a Windows System application, yes that's fucking attrocious. Did you ever hear how angry people were about the Warcraft 3 update that added a bunch of webapp nonsense and bricked a lot of people's old copies? Well, that's basically what Windows 11 did.
-
Small nitpicks: The point of react is that it DOESN'T refresh. It maintains a virtual DOM which is faster to update and diff than the regular browser DOM, which you hinted at. No libraries necessary to do routing, but they do make it easier and better.
This however is a React Native application which doesn't have the same (browser) backend or requirements. It's native code. There is no refresh or routing per se.
That all said, the start menu is an abomination of the highest order. It just isn't really React's fault. People just love to hate on React and
<insert current zeitgeist here>
. React also gets a bad rap because it's so ubiquitous and easy to start using that novices and morons alike can make atrociously slow, bloated web apps with it. -
I'm confused though. The op says "react native", but AFAIK, react native is a mobile app framework.
Does it work/deploy on desktop now?
-
React Native can be built for, not only mobile targets, but multiple platforms, such as Windows, tvs,..., or even the web, trying to use as much native implementations as possible. Now, should you?, that's a different discussion...
-
-
-
I don't understand what this means, but try and find a single Windows user who cares (assuming everyone here is on Linux).
-
It means the start menu is a web browser showing you a webpage, and thus is very slow.
-
Basically. The start menu on windows 11 is really poorly implemented so that whenever you open it your CPU has to kick into overdrive for a split second.
Fun fact: Even windows users hate shitty performance of really basic software.
-
assuming everyone here is on Linux
Why would you do that?
-
Well, I'm on Linux, but I don't think everyone here is. In fact, I suspect most aren't, since Linux penetration (uh-huh-huh, he said "penetration") is less than 2%.
-
Pretty sure everyone in here is on Android so....
-
-
255 comments
Oh, but it absolutely is true. Microsoft really did decide to use React Native for parts of the Windows 11 Start menu. They're also using it in sections of the Settings app.
The technical reality is even more absurd than the meme suggests. Microsoft is currently maintaining eight different UI frameworks for Windows, including their own .NET MAUI and WinUI 3 that were specifically built for their OS. Yet somehow they thought, "You know what this native operating system needs? A JavaScript framework originally designed for mobile apps."
The CPU usage spikes aren't necessarily from React Native itself being particularly heavyweight, but rather from the fundamental architectural choice of running a web-based rendering engine for core system UI elements. Every time you click Start, you're essentially launching a mini web application just to display a menu.
What's particularly galling is that Microsoft has acknowledged WinUI's performance issues for years, to the point where they recommend their partners use the older WPF for performance-critical applications. So instead of fixing their native framework, they decided to add another layer of abstraction.
This is what happens when corporate development teams prioritize "developer experience" and trendy frameworks over system efficiency. Richard Stallman's expression in that image perfectly captures the appropriate level of technical horror at this decision.
The old world built operating systems. The new world builds web apps that pretend to be operating systems.
So, what I'm hearing you say is that MS should jam Copilot into every single app and every corner of the OS, to turn ordinary actions into LLM-driven ones? Because that's what the users and the planet are clamouring for.
Not to mention, windows 11's hardware requirements creating needles e-waste
React Native doesn't render using a browser instance, it's native code (as the name implies), it's actually a layer over WinUI 3 (Previous versions used WPF/UWP)
So it's in the same boat as MAUI, which is also a layer over WinUI 3.
They didn't say it was?
Can't they extract more data from a mobile set-up? I'm assuming that's why they did it, they're trying to take it to a phone experience for the corporations.
Nope.
The reason you do react native is because it's easier to hire react native devs. Further, there's a plethora of react native libraries that make it easier to make UXes above other UX frameworks.
The problem MS has is they have spent decades making platform locked UX frameworks because they were deathly afraid someone would use Linux instead of Windows.
Browser tech won because every major platform needs a browser and basically no organization was investing in multiplatform UX libraries. The likes of both Microsoft and Apple are openly hostile to such frameworks (QT and GTK come to mind).