SHOCK POLL: AOC a Close Second Place Behind Kamala Harris in 2028 Democratic Primary
SHOCK POLL: AOC a Close Second Place Behind Kamala Harris in 2028 Democratic Primary
Only a shock to folks who still think Democrat centerists are what's gonna win the votes
I read it as "it's a shock that she came in second" lol
I will vote for AOC with pride. But I'm leery about running another woman right now. Neither Hillary nor Kamala could win against Trump.
That said, I can't think of anyone I'd be happier to vote for. I dream of her being President. I don't know if swing states will have it, but I would fight to make it so.
Hillary Clinton won the popular vote. There's no statistical difference in the chances of victory between men and women when running for political office. Lots of Republican politicians are women. I don't see it as a big deal.
Also, lots of open racists voted for Obama. If you look at the polling and the interviews, it was much more about running conservative Democrats trying to get the votes of people who wanted to shake things up. That's what Obama promised, that's why Sanders would've won, by some measures, and it seems AOC is out there generating the same buzz.
Hillary and Kamala were awful candidates - they wouldn't have won if they were men or if it were the first coming of Christ. (I'm skeptical he ever arrived at all). The DNC is the blame for their failure. Hillary was out of touch. Kamala had too many issues to list.
All that aside, they would have presidented circles around Trump.
Maybe because Hillary and Kamala were terrible candidates? Are you kidding me?
I will vote for AOC with pride. But I’m leery about running another woman right now.
...that we're talking about a progressive woman.
Exactly zero people who voted for trump last election will vote for a non-white woman.
Country is fucked.
I'm a huge AOC supporter, but she should wait a 2 or 3 cycles (if there are any cycles anymore). I'd rather see her take Schumer's senate seat, and serve there for a term or two first, and succeed Bernie as the Senate's progressive leader.
A Democratic centrist literally polled at #1. It's in the headline.
Needs a little Asterisk* next to centrist and a footnote
*still way further left than any Republican
AOC is a progressive. Harris was too, prior to her role as VP.
I'm shocked that Harris is in first place...
I used to be shocked Biden was #1 in 2019. Turns out, name recognition matters more than anything else, and Harris had a historic campaign budget. (Not that it was used well, but AOC has never had that level of PR)
I'm not,
I'm genuinely skeptical that most polls are an accurate sampling of the population. Most people I know would never sit through a phone poll. Most polls reek of phishing. One of the very first phone polls said that Dewy would beat Truman in a landslide. It was completely wrong because it was predominantly rich people who had the phones to even answer the polls.
Who has the time for polls? Who drops by the candidate booths at the state fair? It's a type for sure.
The only poll I have been a part of all last year was a phone poll entirely about optometrists and eye appointments and how they should be handled in the healthcare system. I couldn't even finish it because the entire things was just... painful to go through.
Insert I’m tired boss meme here.
I'm not. Most people are very passive politically and only know what the evening nees mentions. Most of them probably don't know who AOC is (or perhaps only knows her by 'AOC' and the forms used her full name).
Harris is their default poll vote because they recognise her name
The fact that Kamala is even going to try to run again shows how fucked that party is.
The fact that's she's leading in the polls is fucking crazy
The worse the republicans screw up, the more the Democrats are convinced they don't need to change. I don't think Kamala is going to end up on the ticket. I think the democratic establishment is going to push Gavin Newsom and Rahm Emanuel or something dumb like that.
Bruh, it's a meaningless poll. There's no election coming up. Hoping and pretending isn't going to change anything. Forget any pretense of another election.
I know it's fucking ridiculous. She didn't get people to the polls last time against Trump... if she can't get people to vote against him she can't get people to vote at all.
Says everything.
A PROSECUTOR IS OUR LIBERAL SAVIOR?!?!?!?!
I read the headline and couldn't believe it
To be fair to Kamala, she hasn't announced that she's running in 2028. Neither has AOC for that matter. This is just some pollster polling against some names that people might have heard of.
Why is Harris even mentioned? She should disappear like Hillary.
Nobody wants this person to run again.
Anyone doing a poll would be negligent not to include the previous nominee and former vice president. That's not to imply she's a good choice, only that she's an obvious choice.
Good point 👍
Anecdotally, my sister does. I was baffled when she said it and had to try my best to respond politely, because she's the only other person in my family who isn't a Republican.
From my perspective, she bombed out of 2020 despite being a media darling cast as the frontrunner, and then was just handed the nomination in 2024 without a real primary and still lost, both of which demonstrate she has terrible political instincts and isn't popular enough to win. From her perspective, the fact that she dropped out in 2020 before any votes were casts means she was never given a fair chance, and the fact that she was handed the nomination meant she didn't have enough time to make her case and the unusual circumstances are what caused her to lose, and if she just had another chance she'd nail it.
I'm pretty sure she's an outlier though and most people are just saying Kamala because of name recognition.
Your sister is pointing at every tree while missing the forest.
I'm fine with her running in a Primary.
Harris polls in 1st place
Lemmy Leftists: "no one wants Harris!"
Y'all are in a bubble.
Harvard poll: 72% of Dem voters prefer more left-leaning candidates like Sanders and AOC over moderates like Harris.
Lemmy Leftists: Yes.
Cryophilia: Y'all are in a bubble.
Harris is guaranteed to lose 2028 if she is somehow the dem nominee instead of the republican nominee. There aren't enough right wingers willing to abandon the name republican to vote for her.
We'll see how your fucking bubble turns out when the time comes. Harris couldnt even beat fucking Trump and you think she will win a primary? Batshit.
This is why Kamala Harris famously won the 2020 nomination and went on to become president, because she was polling in first place before the campaign process started.
The democratic party is cooked if it runs Kamala again. There is no way Kamala is running this high in the polls.
There are a lot of moderates that are hesitant about AOC. She's expressed ideas like getting rid of the filibuster, which would be great while "your" party is in charge, but is one of the very few checks available for a minority party to halt truly controversial legislation. The extra steps are kind of dumb, but the foundational idea that legislation should at least require a 60/40 majority most of the time enforces an idea of compromise and representation in almost every bill.
I would shudder to think what a bad president could put through if unchecked by the opposition party in an essentially 50/50 politically divided populace.
There are a lot of moderates that are hesitant about AOC
Don't worry. They'll sit on their asses extra hard for the next election (LOL!) and make sure that the Cthulhu/Lucifer ticket wins.
The filibuster is also a tool the democratic party isn't using. No point in keeping something that only helps one side.
STOP FUCKING TALKING ABOUT ELECTIONS!!! ELECTIONS ARE NOT HAPPENING! GET IT THROUGH YOUR THICK FUCKING SKULLS THAT VOTING WILL NOT SAVE US.
Why on earth would you run kamala again? The democrats can't afford to learn anymore lessons. School is out. Time to start producing.
Why on earth would you run kamala again?
democrats would nominate trump if the alternative was a progressive.
Because they still believe "put in your time and wait your turn" is how the world works
They're never going to learn. It's time to tea party them, by 2028 we need a strong enough progressive faction to force them to cooperate or be replaced
Why on earth would you run kamala again?
Because you thought watching her faceplant in 2020 was hilarious and you want a repeat.
!lemmysilver
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can't afford to learn anymore lessons.
Lol!!! They can afford the whole school!! They are laughing hand in hand with Republicans all the way to the bank!!
"BUT THEY ARE BETTER THO!"
Objectively, they are better.
Second place to Harris??? Holy fuck we deserve our fate.
Edit: upon reading the article (I know...) AOC has the best net favorability. So a little more hopium there.
The fact that Harris is considered as an option indicates your statement is correct.
I jumped the gun, its still bad but AOC has the best net favorability out of them all. Harris has the most support by sheer name recognition. Its bad that people don't know who AOC is though.
The majority of the voting population answers this question based on name recognition alone. You're way more up to speed on the options than the average American voter. We need to put energy into getting people like AOC in front of as many disengaged and unaware people as possible. NOT complain and whine that everything isn't handed to us on a platter.
She's in second place and we have 3 years to move her into first, that sounds worth a shot to me. But go ahead and throw your hands up in the air, tuck your tail, and say there's nothing we can do.
We are closer than we've ever been in my lifetime.
This poll is pretty pointless, as far as actually getting to know who people specifically want. The top runner this far out is pretty much always the last person to have run, because the political climate hadn't changed that much and nobody has campaigned for the next nomination yet.
The important takeaway is that AOC, and presumably progressivism more generally, is getting more popular.
Jfc here we fuckin go again. Lemme guess DNC, this will totally be an open primary right? Anyone can win?
They're going to fuck us again. They thrive on failure. Weaponized ineptitude.
Feels like controlled opposition. I know we need to engage with the democratic party because they're the best we got but JFC can they stop sucking corporate dick for 5 seconds.
As much fun as that sounds, they won't get a chance to fuck us again. Not really anyway. Maybe a performative dance, but that'd be it.
Fucking morons never learn.
Oh they learn, the wrong lessons.
Running Harris was a mistake in 2024 and it would be a mistake if it happens in 2028
Wasn't Harris their only option since Biden took so long to drop out?
She was the only one that could legally access campaign funds since there was no time for a primary.
It was either going to be him or her and both options were far from ideal.
Not quite, the DNC was still ahead. But democrats didn't want the optics of a last-minute open primary where the candidates rip into each other trying to get the nomination on live TV. Plus Kamala herself seemed to move quickly and wanted the nomination before anyone had a chance to get a word in.
Which is a stupid argument if the presidency comes with pardon powers.
There was time for a primary, but the DNC wanted to be sure and clamp down on any possible dissent. They wanted to make it clear that they get to pick the candidates, and the voters have to deal with it.
Welcome to American politics, when the 2028 election begins in 2024 and the 2028 primary began in 2020.
I'm so tired.
No deets on methodology. “Of Democrats”. How many? Where? Registered Dems? Likely voters? 2024 voters?
It matters greatly. In the primaries, Obama was invisible to pollsters that were only looking at prior Dem voters. His support came mostly from first-timers and independents.
I'd vote for AOC over Kamala, 100%.
I mean, I still voted for Kamala, but I wasn't excited about it.
I hope we actually get a 2028 election
Such an underrated comment fr.
I doubt we'll even have the 2026 midterms. HitlerPig can't afford to lose his majority in either chamber, or Dems will have control of investogative committees with subpoena and arrest powers. So he'll engineer a justification for Martial Law, and suspend elections.
He'll have to time it right, so that the courts can't properly react, so it will probably happen late next summer, likely with a series of violent attacks on demonstrations, which ought to be common and huge by next summer. He'll just encourage his J6 RedHats to instigate trouble at protests around the nation, and they'll respond since he's already pardoned and paid them (he's planning on compensating them for their trouble). Many won't miss an opportunity to get a free pass to fuck up liberal protesters.
Once we've missed the 2026 election, it will be easier to ignore the 2028 election. Of course, the outcry will be enormous, but it's Martial Law, so he can put loudmouths in prison without due process, and there is will be no functional court system to stop him.
It's why suddenly the "How DARE Sanders allegedly say that Warren might have a hard time because she's a woman" wing of the party is now like "Women can't win" as soon as a progressive woman is seizing the moment.
wOmEn ArE uNeLeCtAbLe
the party that has only tried running GOP-lite corpo women
Anything a progressive says is evil and must be deplatformed. Anything a Republican thinks must be platformed and normalized.
You guys still think there will be free elections in 2028?
Oh, I expect you'll get the opportunity to fill out little bubbles on a piece of paper. The way they control people is through controlling information. The only way it usually fails is if people are starving or if some bad info leaks out. Keep em fat and happy and they keep voting. And pay attention to how the government treats whistleblowers.
In the rare case voters get mad about something and switch to vote for the other side, the elite still win. Oligarchs fund both parties.
Yes. I do expect that. Your pansy lay down and die attitude might allow Trump to have a third term though.
Fuck Harris, we have no more time for right wing "liberals." She needs to get the fuck out of the way and progressives need to take charge
Why does the Democratic party have a hard on for running failed politicians? Kamala lost, let others step up. AOC would do great in the Dem Primaries
If only your drmocrat handlers let you vote for who you want and not for who they choose.
I will be shocked if the Dem establishment doesn't run Newsom and do their damndest to ratfuck AOC like they did with Bernie.
Sure, there's a lot of time between now and a theoretical 2028 presidential cycle...
But I have learned to set expectations pessimistically and be surprised in the optimism direction, not the other way around.
I will be shocked if the Dem establishment doesn’t run Newsom and do their damndest to ratfuck AOC like they did with Bernie.
Newsom is demonstrating his willingness to sprint to the right.
I would vote for Newsom...as President of the breakaway Republic of California
The DNC will 100% try some ratfuckery to screw the left. Its the only consistent thing they ever do. They're doing it right now, even.
Hillary 2028!!
Democrats will do it if she vows to move right.
Don't even joke about that. We need fresh blood, fresh ideas, and separation from the old regime.
It's Her Turn.™
At this early stage when there isn't an obvious choice (like an incumbent or VP), this is really a measure of name recognition more than anything.
I don't know what the field is going to look like when the primaries roll around, but I highly doubt that Kamala will make it anywhere near the nomination again. She had her chance, she's extremely unlikely to get another one. The last time a Democrat got the nomination a second time after a loss was Adlai Stevenson in 1956, and he only got it because most of the other possible candidates stayed out of the race because they expected Eisenhower to win in a landslide.
She had her chance, she’s extremely unlikely to get another one.
She had two chances. Her first one was an abysmal failure. If she had any sense, she would've learned then and there that her own party doesn't even like her. And the only reason she got a second chance was because the DNC handed it to her on a silver platter. I get why they opted out of having another primary so late in the game, but she was the absolute worst choice they could've made.
This poll may as well have just asked people "which of these names do you recognize?", because that's really all it tells us.
EDIT: It just hit me that you meant she had her chance as the nominee. I'm dumb.
Cory Booker talked all that time for nothing
Cory is probably aiming for Schumer’s position.
yeah, zero interest in supporting kamala "keep arming isreal" fucking harris again.
Yeah okay pack it in boys, we're screwed lol.
Why even bother to run a primary at this point? Just let the DNC select their candidate so we can skip out on the 6 months of sham and shilling.
We're 2.5-3 years away from the primary race even starting, and 3+ years away from the convention. This poll means absolutely nothing at this point.
Screw Harris.
Ok look I voted for Kamala but if a candidate fails can we please run someone one else? You don't run the same person over again because the same people who felt like she was forced down their throats are still going feel like she's being forced down their throats.
And the same bs that was used against her will be used again. But people eat yhay shit up which is why it works.
And her tactics of bring out appealing to Republicans again is probably whay she'll do again and that's going to lose more dem voters.
The corporate Dems need to go away.
LOL. still not moving? chuck schumer and nancy still doing their thing? that is not a real democracy.
What??? Why is Kamala still in the running AT ALL?!?! jesus fucking christ.
As others have said, if Harris was out there doing what Bernie and AOC have been doing, then maybe there would be room for discussion. As it stands now? Nah, step aside sis.
so people think that AOC or Harris is going to win in this very racist/sexist country we are in? Guess it will be Trump again.
Your Obama got in, and what's more they were excited to vote for what seemed like actual charge.
That's what stirred up the racists.
What do you mean "your" he isn't mine in any way. He is just some guy who was president. I don't idolize politicians.
Lol it was always going to be trump again because fair elections don't exist anymore.
Kamala was an unpopular candidate attached to an unpopular presidency. Sure, the race and gender aspect was must definitely used to manipulate MAGA - but that doesn't matter. Whoever Biden chose as VP that would end up running for president would be demonized in one way or another by Russian, Chinese, and U.S. propaganda. They would have lost as well.
Kamala lost because she was perfect in every way but people are simply racist. No other reason can be thought up. She was the best candidate ever and everyone loved her policies. Especially when she showed up with Liz Cheney.
If Trump's in the running again, none of our laws mean anything and there's no point having an election.
Also this. I don't even know if an election could be considered real if he is running again.
Obama was one of our most popular presidents in my lifetime. Hillary won the popular vote.
Yes, American clearly has racism and sexism, but I don't think those have been the problem. The problem is running terrible candidates that ignore what Americans are looking for.
I think its likely both. They would have to not only be a decent candidate they would have to be spectacular to overcome inherent bias and pick up votes from independents and the other party to make up for that bias.
Yeah running a woman against trump… again. Third times the charm right?
Where the fuck has Harris been this whole time? How has she remained relevant? WTF is wrong with the DNC (gestures wildly at all their dumb shit)?
Harris needs to permanently fuck off. AOC 2028.
Is there even going to be another election?
The shock to me is that Kamala Harris is in the poll at all. What rallies is she hosting? Is she even making any media appearances? I wouldn't be surprised though if the DNC pull out the super delegates to say AOC has lost day 1 if there is even going to be a 2028 election at all.
I would suggest Harris to look for a spot in the Supreme Court
She's far enough to the right.
Defeatists ignoring the number of people attending her rallies recently.
Ayyy. This shouldn't be a shock. I think AOC should be seen as a favourite to emerge as the Democratic nominee in 2028... if we get an election then.
I'm GLAD that Democrats LEARNED from their Past Elections and are running a KNOWN LOSER WHO COULDNT BEAT A LITERAL FASCIST who Ran on the Platform of Ruining Our Lives! It pairs VERY WELL with Chuck Schumer's Policy of doing NOTHING while American Citizens are Deported to El Salvadorian DEATH CAMPS!
Imagine losing to a carnival barker 2 times and not learning a thing from it. They will run their 2016 and 2024 playbook again in 2018 and wonder how they lost, again.
The Poll isn't by the DNC it's by Yale University. Dufus.
There was a poll showing that Trump won voters who don't follow politics at all by 14 points. There seems to be a substantial proportion of the population who just picks who they vote for based on how well things have been going for them for the last 4 or 8 years.
With inflation, the pendulum swung towards Trump. After 4 years of tariffs, declining dollar value and Trump being unable to run again, I think that pendulum will swing fairly hard to the left. So conventional wisdom on not picking a candidate who will scare off centrists could be out the window. In which case, you might as well nominate AOC or someone similar.
Of course, president AOC won't be able to accomplish all the things she wants to without a supportive congress and getting that to happen is a much bigger challenge than winning the presidency.
After 4 years of tariffs, declining dollar value and Trump being unable to run again, I think that pendulum will swing fairly hard to the left.
Trump is doing everything from threatening the media for failing to parrot regime propaganda to trying to render citizens to concentration camps after only a few months in power, and you think the US will still have free and fair elections in four years?!
AOC would receive my vote.
Kamala Harris is a two-time loser. Who would vote for her?
The DNC. It's a tried and true strategy to screw over the progressives.
Think what kind of clapping seal would believe she's gonna fix things
Its a good point. Despite all the loss and carnage, and the disassembly of our government, at least the dems accomplished screwing the progressives, and continue to do so. They are not sitting on their hands doing nothing.
Great, they are clearly running the campaign for JD Vance then.
See ya in 2028 with JD as president
Don't be silly, he'll already be president. Theres no fucking way that drippy ghoul has 3 years and 9 months left.
Wait why is Harris even running again? I don't think she's that bad but I can't vote in US elections - the electorate rejected her.
Is this that shocking? Ocasio-Cortez seems to be the only politician left of tired milquetoast liberalism with both the public profile to sustain a campaign and demographic profile amicable to the position.
If the Dems were smart, they’d make the runner-up in the primary their vice presidential candidate. I don’t know why they never seem to do this. I’m not a “Bernie bro”, but Clinton probably would’ve won if Bernie had been her VP.
Because there is a perception that the VP should "balance" the ticket in some ways for the general. Its why Obama had Biden, why Biden had Harris, and why Harris had Walz (idr Clinton's). They try to calculate about what demographics are missing from the presidential candidate and get someone who fits enough of them that the racism/sexism/ageism and therefore lack of votes towards a candidate for those reasons isn't the reason they lose. It's why Obama had Biden, McCain had Palin, etc. The facist cult doesn't have to bother because their voters don't care.
Bold of them to assume there is going to be an election 2028
We're not voting our way out of this.
She's an amazing candidate. I'd vote for her. I dunno about the rest of the country tho. They seem to really appreciate white men when it comes time to vote. All other issues be damned.
It feels like everyone is desperate to loose, if someone came up with a contest where winning cost you a lot of money and was nothing but pain and suffering then the race would look exactly the same as it does between dema and reps.
Wouldn't be the first time someone accused the parties of operating as Controlled Opposition.
"How could you have picked worse candidates than this?" is a question I've been hearing since Clinton beat Bush Sr with the (unintentional) help of Ross Perot.
nothing shocking there.
finally 35, she can run for president, she should win. if I trust any politician to pull the States out of a nosedive, it's sanders or AOC, and I do like that she's half a century younger.
Anyone focused on who to run in a 2028 election is delusional. There's absolutely no reason to think the regime will allow a 2026 election, let alone 2028.
We are not even three months in and ice is already arresting citizens. Who knows what things will look like in another three months, let alone 18 months.
geeez, I wish it was 2028 already! I hope we still have elections in 2028. I usually don't like to be doomer, but nobody is really stopping trump's dictatorship right now. 😬
Midterms are next year. If we can make it that far.
There are elections this year if we make it to November. The "muzzle velocity" they got going isn't giving me hope but the protests and town halls do a little.
None of this matters until the Starlink in swing states fiasco is addressed
I would like both Bernie and AOC to run for president, each with the other as their VP. Either winning would improve America.
Ideally, we get Bernie-AOC for 2028 and 2032, then AOC + ??? for 2036 and 2040. This nation is in dire need of dedicated progressive leadership, considering how far right the ship has tilted.
I like Bernie, but no fucking way should you elect someone that old AGAIN. He can create a great platform for AOC, but even he knows it's time for the younger crowd to get a voice.
Wouldn't it be nice to not have a president who is very likely to die from a harsh cough for once?
That is why AOC is there on the ticket. VPs exist to take over if the president kicks the bucket.
Bluntly, we need good people in office. While I definitely support reforms to force age and term limits on our politicians, that can only happen if good people are willing to change the system. The system is currently run by corrupt and fossilized politicians who won't permit change. Getting good people into office is required for positive change.
This takes time, one where a Bernie-AOC presidency can enable. Bernie and AOC, unlike the likes of Pelosi, will allow younger and progressive people to take leadership roles throughout government. It will take at least 10 years to replace the old guard - a two term progressive presidency just isn't enough for that sort of generational shift.
Somewhere, a Russian with a gulag allergy is crafting a fresh AOC-focused smear campaign for the 2028 third-party distraction effort.
They don't need to. centrists will do it all by themselves. Like they did with Obama.
I'm sure they'll help. Don't have to set the thing in motion, just give it a little push now and then to keep the conversation moving in the direction you want it to go.
The year is 2028
AOC wins the Democratic nomination
Lemmy immediately ridicules AOC as a shitlib centrist and says that to save democracy, we must protest vote for [insert name here].
I want to get off of Mr. Putin's Wild Ride.
lol imagine thinking there's going to be another presidential election
Don't give into the doom that Trump & Musk want us to have. They want us thinking we've already lost so we don't try to stop them, but the fight ain't over till it's over. We the people have power if we're willing to use it
Join on the streets, take a part in boycotts, join strikes, etc.
Join on the streets, take a part in boycotts, join strikes, etc.
I agree, but those things aren't voting.
Voting is over. It's time to do something else.
This is only "doom and gloom" if you've given up and resigned yourself to inaction.
IMO, the worst possible response is ignoring reality and entertaining the fantasy that an election 3.5 years away could overthrow a fascist dictatorship that is doing everything you would do if you never planned on facing accountability, justice, or (fair) elections ever again.
IMO, the worst possible response is believing elections or bi-monthly protests are the only plausible way to remove a fascist dictatorship. There are many options, and Americans are already at the point that warrants a permanent general-strike. The corruption, authoritarianism, and treason to their constitutional oath is on full display for all to see. There should be a million people camped around capitol hill and every single Republican politicians home and office — every single SC justice — right now, PEACEFULLY demanding their immediate resignation/abdication, and new elections.
... and if the above fails, and the fascists resort to violence and terrorism to crush the protestors, that's when the gloves should come off and the protestors should be prepared to forcefully remove the fascists, by any means necessary. That is literally the entire reason the 2nd amendment exists at all.
Every tyrant in history has proven that they're either paper tigers who collapse (usually by fleeing) under the weight of opposition (often internal)... or choose violence, and should be met with violence.
If we give up, you are right, there won't be any.
But we also can't just wait and think everything will be fine by next election.
The current administration wants us to be a dictatorship. When they talk about third term, they wants us to hey used to the fact that he will stay in power until his death.
Elections are far too useful as a form of control for the state to dispense with them. Virtually every country on earth has elections, even if they're just sham elections for show. If you're a dictator or aspiring dictator, you're generally much better off having some pretence of democratic legitimacy than just coming out and announcing yourself as president for life.
So far the regime has done a ton of things that hurt its own legitimacy for basically no reason, from defunding USAid to dismantling DEI programs to destroying the administrative state for a the sake of pennies in savings. Those are all extremely useful to the government, just like elections, but they're evil-liberal-deep-state-woke whatever and so they have to be stopped.
itt: we are completely fucked and this might be the end of america… but i ain’t voting for her! she better personally bless every toilet as transgender compatible and become a member of hamas before i vote for her!
Is this wise? As an outside observer I had the impression that Harris lost in part because of systematic, subtle and overt racism and sexism. All this applies to AOC, too. Do the Democrats want to lose? Don't they have some sort of JFK look-alike, people actually want to vote? It's not as if appearance wasn't way more important in the US than things like the actual political agenda.
Outside of AOC or Sanders, I will write in for a chimpanzee.
honest question: I am out of the loop. Why the sudden hate against kamala harris? I come from a country without a two party system, so we criticize everybody all the time.
The shocking part is that Harris isn't polling lower.
Name recognition.
Yes, the same polls that said Kamala would win.
Are they? I remember the polls saying it was about 51-49 in favor of Trump
I have a feeling that AOC is going to run for Schumer's seat and Booker is going to be the nominee.
She should definitely primary Schumer.
I'll be so happy voting for AOC to primary that genocidal spineless shitheel.
I'm less certain about Booker. Unless the DNC has learned anything(doubtful) I'd bet on Newsom or even Hochul being pushed... :(
Newsom is already the nominee.
As much as I really really like AOC, I wonder if the rest of America isn’t ready to elect a woman. We’ve had two female candidates and both times we got Trump. Granted the first time was Hillary and I held my nose to vote for her (now I’d vote for a fresh dog turd before I’d vote Trump, but something about the whole Hillary thing just rubbed me the wrong way, especially with what happened to Bernie), and the second time they really screwed up at the last minute with Joe. I guess I’m just skittish at this point.
I really hope I’m wrong, because AOC is just a hair behind Bernie in my opinion and I love Bernie. I think she’d be a really intelligent take no shit leader and I am so desperate for that right now.
Both candidates ran as conservatives that attacked the left side of the Democratic party more than they did Trump's policies. It's not because they were women, it's the policies they stood for.
I absolutely think that’s a large part of it.
I personally believe that a woman could make a great president. I also believe that America is much more sexist and racist than many of us would like to admit.
Yep. There's a chunk of people that won't vote for a woman. Then there's ones that won't vote for anyone not white. That's the sad thing
Fake news right? To call this SHOCK gotta be better not the same.
AOC is #1
If you think in terms of "lanes" AOC is the only left wing potential candidate on there, 21% support is actually not persuasive in her odds to actually be the candidate.
I feel very good about her chances to run the Bernie playbook and end with a top 3 amount of delegates but in an actual primary the lanes would clear up as people drop out and it is hard to see her consolidating support from like, Gavin Newsome.
"SHOCK POLL"
It's Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. And she's one of the last persons still right in the head in that circus. 2028 elections may not even happen, and she is the one that is needed to be behind the wheel not then but right fucking now.
...Harris was just a backup bandaid after the bandaid before her dropped.
She remains a great option in contrast to Trump, but then so does the contents of a colostomy pouch after a meal of blue cheese and corn.
Since we're not playing presidential-candidate-triage a few hours away from the general, maybe keep her on the shelf for now?
Can we turn this into an interactive debate? Like a fantasy football dashboard meets lemmy?
Let's be honest, we'd vote for a shit sammich right now over the orange cancer and his clown parade...
that was the option THIS time. and way WAY too many people voted for this clown parade. why do you think a 2028 election will be different?
Not shocking to anyone paying attention
If Kamala couldn't beat Trump, and AOC is behind her... does that mean she'd win?
I don't know what is the needs to be doubtful of polls now, after all, polls told us all over the internet that Kamala would DEFINITELY win the election, and she won it. right?
Right?
So yeah this polling must also be saying the truth
No, they didn't. It was a toss up in all polls right till the end with a slight tendency towards Trump. The polls were pretty much on the nose
You’re both right. There were many varying polls based on what you wanted the outcome to be from what I saw.
There are no true Scotsmen in this thread.
In the last failed election, when asked what Harris would change of Bidens policies, she answered, "couldnt think of anything she'd have done differently". Those policies polled extremely low at the time, even amongst her own party. If Harris has a different view now, immediately would be the time to voice how she's any different, otherwise polling on those issues says she is another losing candidate to a fascist clown trying for an illegal 3rd term. Its long past put up or shut up time, Harris's work needs to speak for itself or she needs to get the hell out of the way.
Wheres the effin new policy positions, Kamala. Get off your arse and do the work.
both will loose to republicans unless they evolve
So the Democrats are not interested in public opinion and is hellbent on always making every election about identity politics. I’m saying this as someone who has always (regrettably) voted democrat in every election since 1992. Inclusivity is important, but why is it always…always the only talking point coming from the left. The message that everyone should be able to get behind is the insane wealth disparity that exists, most especially in America. I remember when everyone on the left was sooo happy, so thrilled when Kirsten Sinema was elected as Senator for Arizona because she was bisexual, as if that’s somehow a qualification, and how she took a huge dump on working class Americans. Has anyone given thought to the Astronaut? You know, the guy whose wife was affected by political violence? The guy who seems reasonable and well spoken ? Middle America might actually vote for someone like Mark Kelly who flew combat missions during the gulf war. Why is the Democratic Party so obsessed with AOC? She’s not a bad person, the right obviously hates her, and that’s shitty, but it doesn’t mean she should automatically be the darling of the Democratic Party, the obsession confuses me honestly, her personality is a bit grating tbh. Democrats are hellbent on either choosing and ineffective milquetoast man or a disingenuous woman.
Let's fucking goooooooooo
Either of them will lose to Vance in 2028
Why do democrats keep voting for losers?
I would have voted if she was running last November.
Is that shocking because she is as high as second or not higher?
TBH that sounds completely expected to me. Bernie Sanders never won the DNC primary, idk why anybody would think AOC would unless a major upset happened.
As much as I love her, this country has shown time and time again it is unwilling to elect a woman president. It sucks, and I don't like it, but the Dems need to run a dude.
Edit: good job hivemind, proving you're still alive and strong considering there's a top comment saying the exact same thing.
Yeah, we’re not gonna get another election. We blew it as a country. Shit’s over.
Also hey person who downvoted me, I really hope you’re right. Another election would be good. It’s just there’s all this doom in the air.
I think there will be another election but you know that Trump is going to try something like refuse to leave office or challenge the validation of the election. Hopefully the midterms are a land slide for the Dems and we can get some sanity back
Defeat, doom, and giving up just makes it a done deal and accomplishes nothing.
Anyone here who seriously thinks Democrats will win without playing dirty and purging Republican votes in the millions? Please CMV.
I mean the Democrats can keep running women candidates, but it's really not working at all. It's mind boggling that people chose Trump over a woman again, but here we are. America has a severe daddy complex going on.
how do you know that their being women is why they lost?
The observable fact is that women have lost to a complete monster twice. People prefer Trump to a woman. I get Hillary a bit, but after Trumps first term, any warm body would do compared to this complete shit show.
How do you know that
theirbeing a woman is whytheyshe lost?
It's an observable fact. The Democrats have lost when they have ran a woman against a monster.
I don't think we've had enough women running in presidential elections to draw that conclusion. Sexism isn't stopping women from winning congressional or mayoral seats. I suspect the women we've seen lose the presidential race have lost for the same reasons so many men have.
Hillary won the popular vote. While America does have a sexism problem, I don't think being a woman is why they lost. They lost because they were terrible candidates who were completely out of touch with what Americans want.
And this is what's wrong with the party. You need to win red districts. Neither of these women will.
If those are our two front runners we are fucked.
AOC would be great.
AOC might be a better House speaker.
But would the majority of American voters vote for her?
Because if not then it doesn’t matter how great she would be.
She's hit and miss for me. When she's calling people out on their bullshit regardless of party affiliation I am a fan. When she's marching along with the ancient Democrats and being performative I can't stand that shit.
I do not think she would do significantly better than Harris did. I think she would be an improvement, but idk if that's gonna be enough.
Then who would you suggest, if not AOC?
Truthfully I don't know if the Democrats have anyone that can win back the American people. Newsome is hated by half his own state and all the other states. Buttigieg maybe? Idk.
We really need another Obama or Bill Clinton. Someone charasmatic and well spoken. We just don't have anyone young or charasmatic in that way that I can think of.
Hopefully when Harris wins the primary Ocasio-Cortez’s fans don’t have a nine year temper tantrum.
Harris lost to trump. She is a loser. In what reality do you live where the best candidate to run is before mentioned loser who failed to beat a clown faced grifter reality game show host? Are you as daft as the people who think trump is the savior?
It’s fine to complain, though. We are not a cult. If the establishment candidate wins the primary, we’ll dutifully vote for that candidate in the general, and then complain about that president-elect for the next four-to-eight years, and try to pressure them on the issues that matter to us. And that’s a good thing.
Are you kidding? The only chance Harris has to win the primary is if the party pulls another Debbie Wasserman Schultz and destroys their chances in the general again.
If the establishment candidate wins the primary, we’ll dutifully vote for that candidate in the general
The core reason for the loss in 2024 still exists, and polls show that patience for DNC shenanigans has run out amongst voters.
Complaining is fine and encouraged.
It’s the Bernie-or-bust mindset or the whole voting third party instead of Harris campaigns that I take issue with.
If Harris was a leader she would be out there touring like AOC. Shes not a leader. She had her shot to prove otherwise and didn't.
I mean, if I were her I’d feel drained and devastated. Everything that happened during the election and people still picked Trump over her…
I have a hard time feeling sorry for her after leaving the left hanging and going after conservative votes. She made an incredibly poor strategic choice and it cost all of us.
Obviously she's not the only one to blame here, conservatives deserving the majority of blame followed by people that stayed home, but she doesn't deserve pity.
Yeah. I have a lot of problems with Kamala The Cop. But she lost what might be the final election in American History. That takes a lot out of you
If I were her, I would have had a plan B knowing what the right wingers were up to, and it should have looked a lot like what Bernie and AOC are doing. Instead she showed up then fucked off to somewhere else after hanging out with Dick Cheney for a few months.
Drained and devastated but willing to lose again? Spray this turd down the drain of your empathy and out of a leadership roll.
You feel sorry for that god awful campaign?
Exactly why she's not a leader. A leader understand that you don't have time to lick you wounds when the enemy is at your door. She should be fighting harder now, not sulking.
So she should be all recovered by '28 then? /s
If she's still drained and devastated months after losing, she's not emotionally mature enough to be president. What's going to happen the first time a soldier gets killed in combat? At least Hillary has some cajones, Harris never gave me that impression.
They cheated, and we ALL know it. If she's upset about anything, it's that she was cheated out of her historic legacy, and the spineless Democratic party backed HitlerPig over her.
If she were out there touring people would tell her to shut up and sit down. She had her shot, twice, nobody wants what she's selling.
Is she even considering running at all?
Completely agree. It would have demonstrated that she would have been a good president and it would have sealed the deal for her (if there are legit elections). She didn’t step up. AOC did. Says a lot about each of them.
Like when she was up there giving her chatgpt, "make me sound inspirational" concession speech rather than just being mad as hell like the rest of us. She's plays leader but she will sit in the manager cubical while the rest of us eat the company provided cold turkey in the break room the day before Thanksgiving.
I can't imagine thinking about "serving people" when majority of them turned out to be hateful idiots that frankly deserve getting their faces eaten by a leopard. Let her catch a break maybe?
The Dipshit didn't even get the majority of people who did vote, let alone the country as a whole
Nah, I'm not giving her a break. She handed the elction to Trump on a silver platter. It should have been a slam dunk election, but she chose genocide, money, and the Cheney's over winning.
Usual: If you voted 3rd party or didn't vote, you signed off on our current reality.
But you're not wrong, and I have plenty to disagree with AOC about, but they're all conversations for a better time; done and done.
Nope. I voted 3rd party because I didn't want Trump, and I also didn't want Harris. Maybe if Harris had tried campaining on what Americans wanted, rather than trying to win over people who were obviously not going to vote for her, we wouldn't be here.
But she chose genocide, money, and the Cheneys over winning an election against one of the least popular presidents we've ever had.
Nah, 3rd party voters at least voted. This solely lies on the folks who didn't vote.
You're talking to someone who was vehemently campaigning for her during the general. She didn't fail any purity test. She failed at having a good strategy, and it was pretty obvious at the time she was making a big gamble. And I articulated this during the election, while telling all the 3rd party voters on lemmy that they were fucking morons.
Kamala is trash, simple as. She failed horrendously.