RIP America
RIP America
219 comments
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Or another way to look at it- cutting nearly 75% of scientists. Can't have climate change if there's no one working! Watch them find some money to give to ExxonMobile to 'study' the impacts of fossil fuels. Wonder what that report will say! /s
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No need for the /s I fully expect that is what will happen. Also a great firewall, so yanks can't access unapproved information from over seas
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Never played a conquest game where you stop researchers from giving your empire a tech advantage over others.
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Narrator: It did not.
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It's a popular strategy for Fascists.
the Nazis and the OG Fascists did it, and so did the communist Chinese.
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China currently churns out more college graduates than any other country, and the rate is increasing.
And they had a hell of a way to go given that it was less than 1% when they took over.
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What makes you think that? Nazi Germany was very interested in science and engineering, at least in the disciplines that develop weapons.
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Has an empire ever been so complicit in their own demise?
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Maybe theocracies like Afghanistan. Even North Korea likes scientists.
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Maybe Cambodia and Khmer Rouge? But not many.
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Yes, many times. Historically, it seems like the very strong empires first defeated themselves and once they were sufficiently weakened for outside forces to be able to threaten them ... they still kept being self sabotaged by their own elite who prioritized maneuvering against each other for temporary power/wealth grabs over working together to face the outside threats.
The late Roman empire has a bunch of good examples: blatant corruption, over taxation of the poor, many assassinations, sabotaging their peers that were trying to improve the situation, constant civil war, the battle that destroyed the military backbone of the western Roman empire was fought between romans, ... And all that while the empire was being torn apart by outside invasions.
Or a more recent example: the polish Lithuanian commonwealth had a paralyzed government thanks to corrupt elites with veto powers in their parliament of nobles (sejm) and only once the nation was mostly destroyed and the nation on the cusp of final destruction, did the sejm introduce some sensible new laws, but it was too late.
With smaller regional powers you can have cases like "they were in a golden age and had never been as powerful, but then the mongols appeared", but with hegemon empires the failure of their inner workings is always going to be instrumental in their own demise.
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That's the price of ethereum lol
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urethereum
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How is the price of a cryptocoin even relevant to this post?
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It's his bloody piss.
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Uhh…because….pee trickle down?
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It's a graph of the global status of the US, you can put in any value of your choice
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Speed running towards Idiocracy by 2028
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I enjoy that movie less and less, not because it's a bad movie, but quite the opposite.
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If you know exactly the level of education of your supporters and your enemies. It's time to attack the level of your enemies.
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Thanks to trump, we get to witness a country entering dark ages.
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*Trump voters
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That's only the half of it. Look at the rest of the policies, look how they want to cut Medicare and food stamps and other safety net programs.
Make no mistake, this administration wants to see people die.
This is the end game the technocrats have been working towards, this is how they're enacting their eugenics. They want poor people, disabled people, disadvantaged people, to die. They believe they are culling the weak members of the herd for the sake of the betterment of "their" kind (rich, white, "healthy", etc).
These policies aren't stupid or ineffective, they are cruel and insidious by design
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I still don't understand their end goal. If everyone exept for them is poor and dying who are they going to sell their stuff to? What will they exploit the people for if they can sell nothing because only they can afford it? Are they banking on becomming the new china and sell everything to the rest of the world? Wouldn't killing half of your population bite that plan in the ass as a fuck ton of manpower is gone? And if they want to use machines as a replacement wouldn't removing all the smart people be extremely unhelpful?
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It is not hard to understand if you think that money is just a number, practically is just used to obtain power and influence, and they're using it for that. Once everyone is a slave, what do you need to sell
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They goal is to get rich, they are mostly old, thinking I'm death in 10 years and fuck the next generations. If the country crashed, well then I can continue living in a Mansion in Dubai with an coctail in the hand. Plunder policy.
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It's probable that they're betting on technological innovation to bring about a post-scarcity economy where profit and capital are irrelevant. And relatively speaking, that could a good thing.
The issue is instead of taking a reasonable utilitarian approach, these people would rather lean on things like:
unmitigated greed
racism
a romanticization of historical imperialism
the social construct within the Western capitalist mindset to incessantly seek new frontiers of exploitation
and the insidious belief that other people don't deserve to participate in such a society; either because of their beliefs or because of immutable characteristics that deem them unworthy or otherwise burdensome to the system.
IMO, the tragedy is that while the rich want to bet on consolidating enough capital to shoot themselves out into space, the statistical likelihood that they will find anything within reach that even remotely resembles the beauty and habitability of our planet is very low. Too bad they will kill all of us first before realizing that.
Something something, when we cut down the last tree and poison the last river...
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We're moving towards an economy of low volume luxury good vs mass produced goods for the average person. Basically the floor will just keep rising until less and less people can afford things. The people who still can afford things will be getting nicer and more expensive stuff as time goes on.
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I still don't understand their end goal. If everyone exept for them is poor and dying who are they going to sell their stuff to?
I'm increasingly believing that they don't actually care about anyone other then themselves.
Their only goals are self-serving greed.
And the methods they intend to use to serve that narrow goal are extremely short sighted and lacking any peripheral vision.
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The whole conspiracy theory of the new world order feels more real every year. Make everyone suffer so they have no choice but to submit to the oligarchs.
People are already having trouble finding jobs. Cutting food stamps and Medicaid feels like pieces of making people suffer in a bigger plan.
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The suffering is just a side effect. Massive death is the goal, they just don't want to have to get their hands dirty.
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Make no mistake, this administration wants to see people die.
They want to see people suffer before they die.
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Hey Europe and Canada, anyone still looking for a scientist that just wants to do lab work? I prefer chemistry, but am happy with micro too. Just let me interpret data, please. I'm stuck somewhere where titrations are the most complex process.
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German universities are always hiring. Always. And in my experience they need just about everyone
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If you have an Irish grandparent you can get a passport. Lots of work here and Americans are welcome.
Otherwise work visas that turn into residency aren't difficult to come by with sponsorship and it's not the kind of sponsorship that makes you a slave.
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In my faculty, there's often vacants for lab technicians, if you want to give it a go
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The pharma industry is currently booming in Denmark (Novo and others are expanding like crazy), so perhaps you could try and look into that
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A healthy, broadly educated population, which feels safe and secure, are incompatible with, and toxic to, conservative and authoritarian ideologies.
They need you to be sick, stupid, and scared.
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Turning the US into Russia 2.0
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As an outsider, I honestly and sincerely invite anyone to explain how any of what’s going on in the US today isn’t as American as apple pie and school shootings?
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America is still slightly ahead of Russia there, due to the legacy of the USSR. Not that Russia's billionaires aren't doing their best to privatize education and keep it out of reach of the peasantry since the fall of communism.
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Russia is actually significantly better to live in than America, and it is a total shithole.
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If you can get out, now's the time.
If not, now's the time to buy guns and ammo.
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It was time for that like 25 years ago. Fuck... I just realized 9/11 was 24 years ago.
And honesty it might be time watch all these 1st world nations like they aren't quite right.
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Unironically... Where's the best place to go if you can get out and only speak english?
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You'll get by just fine everywhere on english, but it'll be hard to integrate and make local friends without learning the language
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in research? English is enough in most countries I think, I have friends here (France) who just start learning french after 10 years living here 😅 they just didn't need it before
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Almost anywhere in Europe is the answer. My son did his masters in Denmark and never learned Danish. He lives in Germany now and speaks fuck all German.
Once in the Netherlands, after losing my glasses I asked an optician if he could speak English and he was thoroughly insulted.
Britain and Ireland are both native English.
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If you're willing to learn at any pace, and can do at least some "skilled work" as they call it, then just about everywhere. Usually you have 5 to 10 years to learn the language if you want to stay permanently. You can get by with English in most of europe.
Usually, if there is not a lot of jobs you can do speaking English, it means that the region isn't exactly rich and/or accommodating anyway. -
As others said, you'll get by with just speaking English - if you're serious think of what would matter aside from language: a life in Italy will be very different than a life in German, not only the weather but also the work culture. Also think of which countries 'match' your education, being somewhere with loads of jobs in your expertise will make things a lot easier. I'd advise anyone able to move from US to Europe to take a leap of faith - if it doesn't work out and the US has by then returned to normal you can just move back and if it doesn't work out and america didn't return to normal you'll likely be happy at least you got out before it got real bad.
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Maybe also learn how to build molotov cocktails, how to grow vegetables in your apartment, and stock some durable food.
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I got out to,the UK, but England is full of wannabe Americans that couldn't get into the US to live if they wanted to. But they're intent on turning the UK into an American territory. These idiots are fully prepared to privatize the NHS and their infrastructure because their white buddies across the pond are somehow a great example of how to advance a country.
Lots of Ameriboos over here with no shame. They'd lick trump's dirty ass if they could become the 51st state.
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Deeply unserious managers of empire continue to self-cannibalize their own productivity in an effort to go even more all-in on financial capital, all while the global south is doing its best to pivot towards more favorable relations with countries like China. When the US Empire runs out of countries to exploit, and financial capital ceases to be profitable, it will have no developed industrial base nor a strong scientifically trained worker base to pull itself back up. The US is cooked, this is just speedrunning the demise of the empire in a faster and harder fashion.
The good news is that the worse this gets, the more favorable the conditions for organizing become, and the more vulnerable to revolution the state becomes. We can legitimately take advantage of this, and gain mastery over capital, rather than the inverse. We can re-industrialize, become socialist, and begin the long and difficult but necessary path towards legitimate progress. It won't be easy, but it will be doable.
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Brain drain is a difficult downward spiral to break out of once it starts.
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This is something I think a lot of people don’t realize; It’s a cascading failure. It’s not just that some competent people will leave the country. The rest of their teams will have to bear the extra burden and be demoralized. They will then feel compelled to leave as well.
It’s happened numerous times in both the public and private sectors. Now they’re deliberately trying to do this shit on a national scale. If we ever recover from this, it’s going to take decades…
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As non-american I'm becoming increasingly convinced republicans are actually lead by traitors wanting to destroy the US.
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I dont think that's it.
It's an overwhelming case of "got mine".
Like sanders said, being a GOP member just means staying in line.
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The Handmaid's Tale was a premptive documentary.
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Wanting? No. But they see the impending collapse and rip the copper out of the walls.
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So is every racist government.
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This is a huge opportunity for countries who always played second fiddle in science and tech.
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Critical support for Trump's struggle against US cultural and scientific imperialism.
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You jest, but even though I hate a lot about the Trump regime, I'm glad that it is eating out its own military capacity like this. It's like when you're incredibly sick in bed, and then it gets a little better for a while.
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I'd say we had a good run but we really didn't.
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Rest in piss USA, smoke em if ya got em
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The country built on brain drain, assumes it is great without the brain.
I hope the scientist find favorable places that value science.
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remember germany, they wouldve develop thier own atomic weapons if wernt the persecution of the jewish and asian scientists. same thing happen in the cold war, persecution of"communism" caused some chinese scientist to flee, and resulted in the CCP gaining access to hydrogen bombs from fission bombs much quicker than any other country.
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The times, they are a'changing
Death to IMPERIALISM
Death to CAPITALISM
Death to FASCISM
Death to MAGA
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Welcome to Europe, researchers!
Lots of great choices and don't worry, you can move to France without knowing French or Denmark without knowing Danish!
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Denmark is home away from home. Love it there. It is my most stamped country. :)
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wait you dont actually need to know French or Danish? How's the local perception of English speaking foreigners, i.e. is it offensive to respond in English if the waiters/locals ask in French?
Tbh the language barrier is 1 of the reasons holding me back. Havent tried for positions in France and Denmark yet, but for the ones I looked in Germany and Spain, you need to know German or Spanish. Even the job ads are in German/Spanish...
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If you're in Denmark and speak English to anyone, nobody bats an eye. You're welcome.
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As a Spaniard and former researcher myself, in Spain you can also move without learning Spanish, just apply to the offers in English in Barcelona or Madrid. Those are the best positions anyway. You will struggle more than in Denmark for sure without it, but it's just because a lot of people speak very little or very poorly. In the big cities it's much better though.
Long term I'd advise you to keep looking in the north of Europe, Spain is likely to fuck researchers over again as they did during the 2008 crisis.
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Yeah he knew about ten words of Danish after over three years there before he moved to Germany. Even his lectures were in English which I was surprised at.
He has had to learn a little German but not that much and he's there about 18 months now. The office he works in has folks from all over so they just use English.
Netherlands also in my experience basically everyone can speak perfect English.
I prefer to try to use a bit of the local language when I'm travelling myself as I find folks react well to the effort.
I'm terms of offence, it's unlikely. I'd imagine tourists are common enough everywhere. I have reasonable French myself so I do try to use it when there so I can't say for France specifically.
If you've any other questions I can pass them on to the young lad.
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Spain is a better choice, but in Germany are more people speaking English, on the other hand pretty right wing. But in academic circles it becomes irrelevant.
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I would Invite them to Germany, but our research policies suck massive balls, sooo: Go to France or Denmark!
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Europe will welcome them with open arms.
People starts to realize that having a higher wage in the US doesn't translate into a better quality of life.
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i dont believe anywhere is currently safe from fascism.
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In the "first world" sphere that regularly ignores and denigrate any country that could be perceived as inferior even if it's not necessarily, then yes, maybe. We're doing great over here in some places that are often overlooked.
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no, but it safer than if a authoritarian is control, like trump, Russia, and china. until those other countries in europe starts attacking science(defunding, jailing them, or alternative "science") its better than the US.
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only the PI/PHDs, and postodcs, the ones that do "majority of the work" in a research lab, undergrads, and grads wont have the same opportunities in europe.
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Quality has nothing to do with the money they gain, but whith what they can buy for it, apart of the quality of the public services. Higher wages in the US mean nothing, when even this isn't enough for education and health, which in the EU isn't a problem. There the people don't lose their existence base because of hospital bills or to pay the studies of their children.
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Europe will welcome them with open arms.
The next step in the authoritarian playbook will be to limit the movement of educated people. Soon enough, those people won't be able to leave even if they wanted to.
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A country for REAL (white Christian male) Americans.
When are you people going to get the message. It was never a country that was about equality. It was about enrichment for a select group of people. When their privilege was threatened, the veil came off.
None of this changes until the rest of America decides enough is enough. That might never happen. If it does, it won't be for years or decades.
The US died on Jan 20th, 2025.
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Wait, the bottom ones are PreK-12 students.
How are they planning to reduce the number of children?
Is this why they hired RFK?
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a dumb population is easier to control than an educated one. They don't plan on reducing the number of children, no they need more to produce for the wealthy. What they need are dumb kids that will grow into dumb adults. uneducated adults are more likely to have A LOT of kids. So you strip education, you strip healthcare, you make abortions illegal across the board, thus you force the population to keep pumping out new workers. many will die, the strong idiots will survive.
They're turning the country into cattle.
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Nah see we gonna use AI to train the kids instead of teachers. Also gotta make sure the AI uses the correct training data, like how the world is 6000 years old and the gays are a sin.
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Number of children, being educated. Surely we could do that.
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Surely this would help with the decaying birthrates.
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The Islamic golden age ended because of centuries of European crusades followed by the mongol invasion. It had little to do with a lack of appreciation for science and scientists.
But there is only so much scholars can do, when under relentless attacks by barbarians.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age
This period is traditionally understood to have begun during the reign of the Abbasid caliph Harun al-Rashid (786 to 809) with the inauguration of the House of Wisdom, which saw scholars from all over the Muslim world flock to Baghdad, the world's largest city at the time, to translate the known world's classical knowledge into Arabic and Persian.[4] The period is traditionally said to have ended with the collapse of the Abbasid caliphate due to Mongol invasions and the Siege of Baghdad in 1258.
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Probably more important is the next paragraph:
There are a few alternative timelines. Some scholars extend the end date of the golden age to around 1350, including the Timurid Renaissance within it,[6][7] while others place the end of the Islamic Golden Age as late as the end of 15th to 16th centuries, including the rise of the Islamic gunpowder empires.
The Ottomans managed to siege Vienna centuries after the end of the Golden Age. They were not that behind in technology. Really the big change happened with the industrial revolution, which the islamic world mostly failed to implement. However at least the Ottomans managed to do a good enough job, to stand the ground against the Brits. Of the none Western world only Japan and depending on how you look at it Russia was better at adopting Western science and technology.
Iran and Moghul India did much worse though.
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Well, actually, the US intervened in the islamic world.
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Their golden age was long gone.
They might have had another if the US hadn’t pushed them around.
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Making everywhere else, great again.
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we'll just get chatgpt to invent new science for us
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Indeed Artificial Intelligence (AI), including machine learning, autonomy, and related advances, ($655.23 million) investments will bring together numerous fields of scientific inquiry—including computer and information science; cognitive science and psychology; economics and game theory; education research; engineering and control theory; ethics; linguistics; mathematics; and philosophy—to advance the frontiers of trustworthy AI, including advancing perception, learning, reasoning, recommendation, and action in the context of specific fields and economic sectors. NSF investments are needed to develop new foundational AI theory and implementation techniques, as well as novel AI methods that are inspired by use cases in specific application domains and contexts.
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what if we ask chatgpt to figure out physics for us and it gives us some absolutely fucked to death recursive nonsense but- what if- what if we like get lucky and it somehow works, the llm's quadrillion monkeys typing somehow crack a glitch in reality
i imagine that is about as likely as it actually helping with inventing new fields of science
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i'm sure the techbro right actually believes this
because otherwise how are they going to take over the MIC if the I part evaporates
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anecdotally, I know people finishing their phds that have jobs lined up elsewhere in the world because there are no federal science job openings
the brain drain is real and self-imposed
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Hello. Yes, count me too. I'm American but I have been just skipping any postings around the US. I love the people and the landcape, and I miss family dearly, but I can't do my job there, which is a shame because not many people can do what I do, especially in the US.
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Why a quarter, isn't it more then a third? Edit: Sorry, i misread it that they would want to get rid of a quarter of their people and omitted the million.
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330100-90000 = 240100, that's pretty close to a quarter of a million.
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330-90=240.
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330-90=240
So about a quarter mil when you put the zeros back in. -
there are probably other scientists being cut not mentioned in this chart
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Whoops, I dropped these links here. Oh, clumsy days. Don't mind me...
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Not to kill the joke, but I was given these by a close friend who lives there now. These are all tailored to English speakers.
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I've figured this out. If MAGA gets rid of all the smart people, they won't seem as dumb anymore!
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This reminds me of a particularly hilarious scene from The Death of Stalin where they have all the country's best doctors lined up to save Stalin after his heart attack, but they are all bumbling idiots and Stalins men get angry about how incompetent they are until someone reminds them that Stalin literally killed all the best and most capable doctors in the soviet union out of paranoia.
And so, Stalin dies.
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Here's to hoping for a similar result.
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I thought science memes were funny, not soul crushing 🤕
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When people's businesses start being revolked, sold off by the government, or smashed up, you can be pretty sure there's going to be a more systemic genocide.
So watch out for that happening.
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were already in a US ethnic cleansing, genocide is next
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Well, that happened to Germany back in the 1930s/40s. Before that, about 1/3 of Nobel Prizes went to German scientists.
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Of course a large percentage of those German scientists were Jewish, weren't they?
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Huge news for the WW3 odds. ✍️
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Keep on winning, America!
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Europe is infinitely welcoming of these people, they'll always have a place here.
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We need to up our game on many many fronts. We need more investment and harder turn toward deomcratic socialism to fully reap what is being sown.
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Canada has also been increasingly welcoming American expat academics and medical professionals.
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The better to fascist you with, my dear
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Stupid people are easier to rule and fool.
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This is good actually, because it will reduce the brain drain of other countries. Critical support for JDPON Don.
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That's how the 3. Reich started.
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What's the term when a country has a brain drain but caused by itself?
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brain dump?
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Good one
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(start of) Fascism.
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Idiocy!
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This doesn't really save money. It does however create a burning of the books effect.
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I dont think anyone cares about money anymore.
They can see the problems arising from climate change on the horizon and they're creating a ruling class and a subservient class.
If you're part of the ruling class you dont need money.
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because that 300000 people fired will allow them to have 300 high ranking CEOs
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RIP america is music to my ears.
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But seemingly most of these numbers are students?
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Who do you think does a lot, if not most of the legwork in the lab and becomes the next generation of scientists?
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When a mommy scientist and daddy scientist love each other a lot, they pray to Caffeine and Nicotine, the gods of late-night trivial tasks...
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they do, sadly they are recognized well, unless your in a independant lab(not part of the degree)
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Graduate students provide enormous value for their cost in funding. I’d like to better understand how k-12 students contribute here. Those students make up 88.7k of the reduction. How much do these students contribute and at what cost?
I’m in no way against inspiring the next generation. My question is aimed at correctly interpreting this table. The NSF is a worthwhile expense, but let’s understand the data we have.
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And...?
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The tweet gave me the impression that these people lose their jobs. But it turns out that's not entirely true, because it also counts undergrad and preK students who participate in a program one way or another. That's still bad, but not as bad as the tweet suggests. Surely there is a better way to represent the budget request?
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you do realize graduate and undergrad students do research in labs as part of thier degree, or lab experience right. they are indeed researchers, just not labeled as such by employers to pay them a wage or any benefits. and also they do most of the lab work as well, the postdocs/PI are the ones drumming up the IDEA, and implementing some of the experiments. if you go to any research paper from a science journal you can sometime see graduate and undergraduate researcher as part of the affliate"acknowlegement of the paper.
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As I understand these NSF-funded research projects are only part of the entire curriculum. So it would be a misrepresentation to say that the US is "getting rid of" these students. They will still study and get a degree, they'll just have a harder time finding an appropriate research project. That's still bad, but not the same as what is claimed by the tweet.
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219 comments
And still some people think it will be fine in 3.5 years.
Oh my god it’s only been half a year D:
5 months, he was inaugurated January 20th
It absolutely won't be.
But it might be moving in the right direction.
Regardless, will take decades/generations to fully recover from this, if ever.
No, you'll never recover. Your previous status was the result of a very specific set of historical circumstances (specifically the fact that you were the only major power left standing after World War 2) that aren't going to repeat. If you fall, the best you can hope for in terms of recovery is to equal the other developed countries of the world. You'll never exceed them again.
Especially given that even in the best case scenario the period of recovery will be 8 years maximum. No matter who will be the next president, the one after will be another angry conservative, and I don't believe there will be a lot of progress after.
The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now.