Troops and marines deeply troubled by LA deployment: ‘Morale is not great’

Similar when they were doing border patrol in Texas.

Military training is kinda big on threat identification and assessment. You don't have to like the military to appreciate some of the stuff you can learn from it.

Protesting is not a threat to America. It's a threat to the people who are in charge.

It's not. Unhappy people can lash out. You put a bunch of angry people on the riot control line, and they might start hitting people. It's all downhill from there.

Then the American populace will forget all about how they raided your country, move on to the next one while moralizing to the colonized. Or like what’s happening now, they’ll lecture everyone about genocide and invading countries, won’t realizing the hypocrisy.

As much as i hate what Trump is doing, I don't expect any enlisted man to refuse orders to go somewhere. The legality of that order is debatable, but following it does not cause any immediate harm. It's not a good risk to take.

Refusal to follow orders will come when the order is so clearly illegal that there can be no question, and when following that order is something that can't be undone. An order to fire into the crowd, for example.

Of course, no such order will be given. I assume we have all seen Andor, yes?

In what ways are you able and going to support troops who do that to then face court martial? Are you a lawyer willing to go pro bono? Are you willing to house the ones who are discharged, or later released from prison, with few to no job prospects? Do you already or are you planning to donate to service member advocacy groups?

If troops could feel sufficiently supported by the rest of the community when the military's judicial hammer hangs above their head, it may help them gather the courage to do the thing you're suggesting they do.

Most troops signed up to do a job with good benefits and gud-nuff pay and hopefully learn some skills, make lifelong friends, and maybe do some interesting or adventurous things in the process. Few of them are very financially well-set and "standing down" from orders they personally deem illegal could ruin their life. Big decision for 18-25 y/o's to be making and glib comments like "just stand down" kind of gloss over the total psychology of the situation.

Right?

This isn't complicated. You either choose to obey an illegal order and threaten/attack other American citizens, or you don't.

Clearly they have generally chosen, so far, to break the law and betray their fellow Americans.

Not just not subordination following them is specifically illegal and historically "I was following orders" has NEVER been justification or gotten anyone off their charges. You follow illegal orders YOU are a criminal as much as your commanding officer.

These orders will be made legal as judges have no more basis in us of a

That’s not how military orders work.

You say "easily," but I doubt it appears so easy, because disobeying the order first starts with you violating the UCMJ and paying for it. Only then can you fight and say hey, the order was unlawful. But you're doing that from military jail. It's an uphill battle and there's nothing easy about it.

I imagine the mindset is go, stand around with a shield, don't murk protestors, and try to just wait this shit out.

Plus, for the Marines, they were living in 29 Palms beforehand, so it's practically a vacation.

Don't forget 77 million traitors voted for Trump and his mass deportation campaign.

Trump wouldn't be where he is if people didn't vote for him. I mean, sure Elon helped, but people did still have to go vote.

History will absolutely consider Donald Trump an American traitor. A LOT of people just can't see that from within the situation. They'll only be able to see it in hindsight, if at all. It's really sad.

If you lie about an election, you are a traitor.

If you send a mob to stop the certification of an election, you are a traitor.

If you bend the knee to authoritarian leaders, you are a traitor.

If you irreparably damage our alliances by threatening our allies, you are a traitor.

If you steal classified documents and then refuse to give them back, you are a traitor.

If you send the military to threaten/assault American citizens, you are a traitor.

If you spend every day in, and out, of office dividing Americans, you are a traitor.

You hope for immortal troops to occupy us cities? I guess you like a challenge.

What is the strat for MAGA customers?

being strong enough to quit refuse unlawful orders and use your own common sense and basic decency to resolve conflicts in the field and deal with the court martial.

Or you can stay in the service and be a sabot in the wheels. Being a shitty soldier will do more to hurt the fascist service than leaving it. Trust me, i was a shitty soldier.

they also have a dilemma, if theyw ere to shoot a citizen, then once they get out of the military, people will know who shot them and then there will be constant guilt/harrasment, or doxxing eventually.

The main difference there is that they can be unfamiliar with that country and believe what they are told about it.

Hard to be unfamiliar with the country you grew up in, and only 30% of the population is willing to believe what they are being told about it now despite their life experiences not showing that to be the case. I mean since when have those types of people been "scared" of Californians?

I think the primary difference here is they know the population they're oppressing so it's difficult to wholly believe the propaganda.

When being imperialists abroad, they're fed a steady stream of propaganda about how they're the hero, that they're saving democracy, babies, capitalism, and what not. Most of them don't speak the language and have difficulty relating to the local population. Americans are notoriously ignorant of everything outside the US (fine, in the US too) and the locals they're defrauding are understandably afraid and/or hostile, so many don't learn otherwise or don't want to accept otherwise. Imagine the blow to the psyche of switching gears from "great American saviour" to "brown kid murder machine to make rich people richer". That's tough.

Now the lies are much harder to believe. They speak the language, share the culture, and some are at least vaguely familiar with the events leading up to these protests. While 1/3 of the US population are utter numpties, the remaining 2/3 are at least likely redeemable and some of that larger fraction is likely present in the military. They know what they're doing is wrong and don't believe the propaganda telling them otherwise.

Now we'll see if any have the courage to stand against this. I'm not holding my breath.

Oh, do I have news for you: https://apnews.com/live/israel-iran-attack

And also boost retirements of career members who manage and operate the military. Which will be okay with the MAGA Nazis, because eventually they'll have an entire military of followers who will happily kill ANYONE for HitlerPig.

My Dad was a helicopter pilot in the Army, during the late 50s, and wanted to do that for his entire life. Then Vietnam heated up, and he was going to train pilots to go to over there, and might have ended up there himself. Nobody could explain to him why this was happening, and he didn't want to train young men (like himself) to go off and die for a war that nobody could explain, so he quit flying, retired from the military, and got into the insurance game.

I would imagine that a lot of career military are questioning their career paths.

we can fucking hope so

Sadly there are enough people who agree with it or simply can afford to protest, so too many scabs

They were pushing crowds away and making arrests yesterday I think.

Like literally all of them?

Maybe.

No, US citizens need a military that disobeys illegal orders. All of these marines are complicit. Who gives a fuck if they're sad about it?

You did a double post.

marines, not soldiers. soldiers are army