Buyers Are Avoiding Teslas Because Elon Musk Has Become So Toxic

before i get sued by Elon for not buying Tesla, just wanted to say i was never a potential buyer

The Muskrat is the reason why I can't even feel good about anything SpaceX does. Every time they do something to propel space exploration forward, all I can think about is how he and his cronies are going to use it to privatize space for profits.

The alternative needed to be NASA, slow, methodical, maximum safety, maximum consideration, with patents benefiting society instead of a private class of shareholders who see it as just another gift in their portfolio.
Instead, we gave away the future to reckless profiteers, and starved the correct, societal scale project of growing beyond our world that could have provided a sense of common purpose and accomplishment as Mercury and Apollo did, which given we're at each other's throats would have been useful.
We won't get anywhere with people like Musk or any other avarice obsessed profiteer at the wheel, only heartbreak in trusting human lives to them as they cut corners and overpromise their capability.
- Blame the Boomers on this one. They got the moon landing as kids and then thought the rest was boring so they cut funding once they made up a large part of Congress in the mid 80s.
- FWIW spacex doesn't actually have a lot of patents for their ships. Patents mean making things public but hold society back for the duration of the patent.
  SpaceX treats it's rocket stuff as trade secrets so countries like China that don't respect patents can't use it. However, if someone does figure it out on their own, SpaceX has no protections.
- Are you forgetting in your richbad rant that Tesla has open use patents?
  Oh right I forgot that this is a circlejerk community. Carry on.
Every time they do something to propel space exploration forward. . .
Musk is trying to build the Dune future, not the Star Trek future
- He's probably thinking more near-term: the Elysium future.
Honestly SpaceX is WAY overrated.
Yes, they have some good engineers, i dont doubt that, but:
They still haven't been able to replicate what NASA did way back in the 60s with a bunch of rulers, they still haven't gone beyond low earth orbit.
Their heavy rocket's best attempt got it empty into an unstable spinning Leo, and thanks to fucking musk it destroyed a launchpad, polluting kilometers around which I'm sure they cleaned up, right?
They're entire shtick was that they'd be super cheap and they're fucking expensive, even after everything they have done is basically funded by tax payers.
All that is steered by a lying narcissistic psychopath who now uses his crashing Twitter system to get a dictator elected. The guy is like trump, every second word out of his mouth is a lie. Seriously every project he coined was bullshit, every claim he made was bullshit, none of it happened. Hyperloop, anyone? It killed high speed rail, so yeeeeiii? Tesla's with rocket engines? Ballistic missiles to transport humans across the globe in 30 minutes? The boring company making tunnels 1000x cheaper? And SpaceX? We will be on Mars in ~~2016~~ ~~2018~~ ~~2020~~ ~~2022~~ ~~2024~~ 2026, for sure! They're still in Leo, which is the (relatively) easy part of getting humans to Mars....
ALL of it, bold lies.
So yeah, I honestly think that SpaceX is not really helping space exploration forward. I think it's 90% bloat aimed at getting as much money for musk as possible
- They still haven’t been able to replicate what NASA did way back in the 60s with a bunch of rulers
  A bunch of rulers and a LOT of money and industry, courtesy of tax dollars. It was basically a concerted national effort.
  I'd say SpaceX is doing great given modern financial constraints for spaceflight.
- Getting to Mars is a cover.
  Musk is using his fortune, tax dollars, and rich investors to develop the means for the rich to escape the hell they've created and/or the mobs of common folk that will surely beat down his, and other wealthy oligarchs, doors when society inevitably flops. That's why he's ignoring regulations and laws like they don't matter to him. When your entire purpose is to help the rich escape their fate, you don't give a fuck about rules.
  He's an accelerationist with more money than god.
Every time i hear about SpaceX, I wonder how much further along we'd be if we had proper taxes and gave the money to NASA/ESA. Even if the answer is "about the same" then at least they treat their engineers well.
- And at least NASA is beholden to US citizens instead of shareholders and a sociopath billionaire.
- Every dollar SpaceX spends, NASA gets it done with a fraction of the budget. The James Webb took forever but it was worth it. SpaceX would have trashed it for a tax write off.
I wish I had a good alternative to Starlink but it works too damn well.
Alien franchise incoming in 3...2...1...

The best car

Teslas aren't even the best electric car. On top of that I would 100% want a Rivian over a cybertruck. Yeah goofy headlights... but better then a wholeass goofy body.

Also Teslas don’t have vehicle to load, which is insanely important.
The cyber truck lost a bet with a wooden fence. Hard to make a vehicle so shitty.
I mean, just get a Lightning instead if you want a truck, at least there's dealers around and it's an actual truck.
- ¿por qué no los dos?

He went from "genius" to "dumbass" when he announced his hyperloop a decade ago, and finally to "someone I have perfect hatred for" in less than a few months given his recent conduct. I don't want his cars, I don't want his robots, I don't want to see his face ever again. He's a piece of shit. If he died, I'd be in line to piss on his grave.

I'd be in line to shit on his grave.
Hyperloop was just a gambit to kill the train projects in california.
Like that needed help doing.
It's really annoying that Lemmy seems to have just as much of a boner for Musk news as Reddit.
- Unfortunately he is someone who has a cult of personality and a lot of media pull. I wish he would shut the fuck up, it would be a welcome change and very good for him.
- When he stops trying to obviously effect elections, I'll stop paying attention.
- Gee, I wonder why that could possibly be the case? Surely it isn't completely warranted given everything Elon says and does on a worldwide platform, right?

Why wouldn't you buy a car from this guy? 🤔

All I see every time I see that photo are the old cheesy Toyota ads.
- At least the toyota guy is lifting his legs and putting some effort into that jump.
- For some reason it reminds me of Stuart the Look What I Can Do kid from MADtv. It’s the expression on his face and his half assed effort to jump in the air with like feigned enthusiasm.
- Toyota Hilux are absolute beasts.
  There is this video where some TV presenters try to kill one and they leave it submerged in the sea for several hours. Pull it out, clear out the carburettor and it fires back into life.
  https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xnWKz7Cthkk
- I remember these ads growing up! Aussie ads are... Different sometimes.

I'm a person that would 100% buy a Tesla if it wasn't for him.

Politics aside, if Musk wasn't in charge of Tesla, Tesla would make better cars.
- Absolutely. Because Tesla would be focused on staying ahead of the competition instead of making a useless truck, among other things.
  (And by "useless truck" I could mean that mobile dumpster or his big rig jokes.)
I wanted a Tesla so badly until… well, Musk went crazy, and also very importantly they DON’T HAVE VEHICLE TO LOAD, which is insanely important to me.

I do want the best car. I am rejecting Tesla as an option mostly on that basis. But it also feels nice to avoid directly giving money to Trickle-Down Elmo.

Trickle-Down Elmo
Lol, that's a good one
Nah, even if it was the best car, fuck Elon. I'd rather drive a shitbox.

Friend ran afoul of the Tesla's Drive-By-Wire. She had her car on automatic drive and it was speeding towards the bumper of another vehicle. She slammed on the brakes, but because the system has to switch from automatic to manual, the brakes didn't engage for a critical second. So she ended up jamming her car into the rear end of the vehicle in front of her, and her system recorded the event as "human error", because she was at the wheel when the collision occurred.

Now she's out several grand in repairs that her insurance won't cover, because she failed to let Tesla's autodrive system take responsibility for the collusion by trying to prevent it.

Stories like this are what make me incredibly hesitant to buy a Tesla.

As someone who owns a Tesla, I can attest this isn't how the brakes work. We'd heard similar rumors to this effect and it was the first thing we tried on the test drive. The brakes are 100% functional 100% of the time, regardless of driving assist.
Even if "full self driving" (quotes intentional, that shit is not fully self driving) did cause an accident, the driver is perfectly capable of avoiding it by braking or taking over steering.
P.s. Fuck Elon Musk
- Is that true for all Tesla models though? I was under the impression the newer models had blended braking, which would make this story somewhat plausible.
I hate Tesla as much as the next guy but this sounds very odd.
It's hard to believe that it's possible to sell a car in 2024 that doesn't apply the brakes when you press your foot on the brakes.
- Because it's probably bullshit. Elon Musk is a colossal problem, so people feel justified in whatever lies come to mind.
  The Cybertruck has steer by wire BUT NOT BRAKE BY WIRE. No other Tesla has any such system. The brakes in all Teslas are traditional.
  The question of who pays when you have an accident with autopilot has basically been settled in court: the normal rules of fault apply. If autopilot is at fault, then you're at fault. If you're in control, and you're at fault, then you're at fault.
  The idea that an insurance company says, "Oh, we won't cover it because you deactivated autopilot" is outright silly. Ignore the autopilot thing for a second. What happens when you rear-end someone? Your insurance covers it based on your coverage, and your premiums probably go up significantly.
  The driver was supposed to be in control, of a vehicle with traditional brakes, and hit a car. If they have coverage, it should be handled just as if autopilot weren't involved at all unless they can prove that Tesla is at fault.
- It does apply brakes. It just takes time for the system to shift over between modes. But when you're in the middle of a collision, even a moment of latency can be the difference between braking in time and impacting the vehicle ahead of you.
Drive by wire for 4000 pound missiles should not be legal
- Isn't the airbus a380 drive by wire? A 628,000 pound missile?
Your friend lied to you.
switch from automatic to manual
This had me confused for a second, as these are types of transmissions. Wouldn't 'A.I.to human' driving be a more accurate description?
Is this why their new robotaxis have no controls? Liability over safety?
As other commenters have said, this is just not how the system works. Something was misunderstood or some context was probably lost somewhere. I have driven a new-ish 2021 Model 3 as a daily, and there are basically 2 modes of auto driving. One is autopilot, which is very similar to adaptive cruise control with lane-keep assist in other cars. Then there's full self-driving, which is supposed to be you entering a destination and your car will take you there with minimal interference. You also need to pay out the wazoo for that FSD functionality. Tesla needs you to be vigilant in both cases, and you're responsible for a crash in both cases. Now onto the brakes, in either system, when you press the brakes, the car immediately applies brakes. On occasion, it's taken the automated driving system a second to shut off when I apply the brakes, but I have always felt the brakes immediately kick in. Teslas at the moment do not have brake-by-wire. They have throttle-by-wire (duh, EVs), and steer-by-wire on some of the more recent higher end models. All of them have a hydraulic braking system where your foot on the pedal is immediately converted to braking pressure. Your friend is mistaken, and the crash is their responsibility for not maintaining vigilance. Afaik, very few companies are at self-driving tier 3, which is where the company would be responsible for a crash. Tesla is not there yet.
- As other commenters have said, this is just not how the system works.
  I've got the dashcam footage and I know the driver. She can tell me when she hit the brakes, and she says she had the peddle as far down as it would go. The car didn't begin decelerating in the same way an analog breaking system would have. That cost her a critical second and resulted in her rear-ending the vehicle in front of her.
  All of them have a hydraulic braking system where your foot on the pedal is immediately converted to braking pressure.
  Then maybe the breaks were bad. Idk. But she had plenty of lead time (presumably thanks to the super-advanced cruise control or whatever you want to call it) at the beginning of the video. The vehicle simply didn't stop in time.

They used fake robots at their latest event. They were secretly controller by humans. Tesla is a scam company.

Source?
- https://futurism.com/the-byte/tesla-robots-remotely-controlled-analyst
  You can just use Google, you know

My Tesla desire journey has gone from feeling like I was chasing a magical unicorn from the future to not wanting to go anywhere near it. I am planning on buying a new car in the next couple of years and I'd love it to be an EV with good range and short charging times but I don't think it will be a Tesla now.

Yeah I'm eyeballing vw or Hyundai now, really wanted a tells Tesla not long ago
Same thing with Twitter. I went from seeing a linked/embedded tweet and clicking it to really having a bit of a crisis in the form of: "do I really need to click on that or can I do literally anything else to get the same information?" (e.g. how I saw facebook/instagram links before)
Samesies
Check out Aptera if you need a commuter car.

That and because they have the build quality of a 1980s Yugo but the price tag of a brand new Jaguar.

I'll never buy one, and it's 66% because of him. The other 34% is the fact Tesla's are shit quality vehicles. Geico literally refuses to insure the cyber cuck. I didn't misspell that.

The cybertruck is bad enough, there is no spread misinformation that you read on Reddit
The geico stuff was fake news

True, I was in the market for the last 6weeks. Tesla is well priced and equipped, but Musk is so awful they weren't a consideration.

How are Tesla's "well priced", my dude?
- Compared to other electric cars that were on my list. The model Y compares fine to the Blazer EV, the Cadillac Lyriq, the EV 9 and similar.
- For me, a Tesla Model Y got the full US rebate and MA state rebate and I bought it after a significant price drop. My cost was very competitive, and the vehicle is still more advanced than most legacy manufacturers models

I love that for him

If you want a new car and you want it to be electric, I'd go with a small car made by Hyundai or BYD.

That's the most sensible purchase financially and environmentally imo.

Eh... A Chinese car is more environmentally sensible? You're kidding, right?
- Say "I have no idea what I'm talking about" without using those words. Chinese EVs are leading-edge stuff.

I bought a Tesla four years ago but the only way I'll ever buy another one is if Muskyboi is thoroughly excised from the company.

Pretty much up until 2020 I was thinking about a Tesla for my first EV. In '22 the time came for a new car and I went with a different EV because Tesla's quality control has plummeted due to Elon's reckless leadership.

I never liked Teslas for their lack of things like physical volume knobs for the stereo. In my brutal dictatorship, being an executive, manager, engineer or shareholder at a company that manufactures vehicles that installs touch screens at stations for required crewmembers will be punishable by death by coal power plant. "You have to take your eyes off the road to change the radio station." Report to your new job working for the power company. As fuel. Get on the conveyor belt, you'll know when your shift starts.

The company became popular because of the popularity of its founder, and will die alongside his reputation.

I'm no Tesla historian, but wasn't it already on the way up before Musk got involved?
- It tends to be how he makes all his money, tbh. Spot a company on the rise, buy it, profit.
  Twitter is an exception. He's bought that just for propaganda because he can't bear the idea of people not paying attention to him.
- Very much so, that's why he got involved and bought his way onto the list of founders.

I'd buy an XPeng or a BYD or the like.

Well, good for you. Personally I'm not buying an internet connected Chinese car. If a car has the option of spying on you, and potentially be used in a hybrid attack, I'd prefer to get a car from a western manufacturer. And not Tesla either, Musk is too unstable and seems to be influenced by the same powers that has Trump's ball in a vise.

My current car is an internet connected EV, but it sure isn't Chinese or a Tesla.

China can spy on me. I feel safer with them having my info than Musk (Or if you really want to get in the weeds, GM or Ford who's happy to share that info with big insurance and law enforcement)
- One is a totalitarian state who could unleash all its might on you if they wish; the other is still subject to rules and regulations despite being corrupt. I'd rather have Ford and GM spying on my information for corporate interest than a state who wants to micromanage every aspect of your life, thank you very much.
Why the flying fuck would I want a western car spying on me here in China?
- Because some American car company won't disappear you for having the wrong political opinion.
- As I indicated by using first person singular in my comment, I was talking about me. What car you (second, singular) get is up to you.
  While I did write "If a car has the option of spying on you[...]", I hope my usage of "you" as an informal pronoun was clear. I do realize that I could have used the word "one" instead, or rewritten the sentence entirely. I wrote like I speak, and I unfortunately do not speak like an English professor.
  Please remind me, where did you tell me that you live in China?
Not only spying, these cars are just like all other Chinese products.
- My Milwaukee tools were made in China and they are fantastic. Sure, some cheap chinese made stuff is crap but the higher end chinese products are every bit as good japanese or western made now.
- Your electronics you used to post this were made in China. Apple's $1000 phones are made in China. Nintendo consoles are assembled in China, as is Playstation and Xbox. If you used anything you liked in the last ~30 years, China had a hand somewhere in it.
  China doesn't have a magic power to remove all stability from its materials like a shitty alchemist, companies produce cheap bullshit because its cheaper to sell new ones than to fix old ones. It's not some grand mystery of "MSG-elements" or whatever it will be called in the future. It's simply that economics cares more about short-term profits than long-term gains. And cheap shitty materials will do that in any country that makes them.
  There's junk from Germany, shit from Spain, and ass from America. Borders don't inherently change the outcome of a assembly line's finalized product. I've had good paper from America, great pens from China, and nice leather from Italy. But I can also walk to any metropolitan area in each of those countries and find you the cheapest, filmiest bullshit possible within the hour of stepping off that plane, that proudly states "MADE IN $LOCAL_COUNTRY".
- Say "I don't know what I'm talking about" without using those words.

I wonder how much longer it will be until the board of directors of the various companies he's involved in start a serious revolt and push to get him out of the company?

It won't happen. Ever since he got ousted from one of his companies he's structured his companies carefully so he can never be ousted again.

Elon Musk is the reason I sold my Model S. I got an SUV and a convertible out of it. Now I have an EV SUV and a mini Cooper

Do you have the EV Mini? I looked into them a while ago but wasn't thrilled about the idea of buying their first attempt at an EV.
- It's a Subaru Soltera. I only have 3 complaints about it. Other than this I absolutely love the car.
  It does not remember charging limits. 80% is the ideal, it always charges to 100%
  You have to manually turn on regenerative braking every time. There is no setting to keep it on
  The qi charger in the console for phones is horrible. It doesn't work with a phone case and when it does work, it will change at a slower rate than the energy the phone uses.

I'd buy an XPeng or a BYD

Why? They are only marginally better than a Tesla. And the software of the dashboard is designed for Chinese people who like UX and UI that look like the Aliexpress or Taobao website. Really unintuitive. Not to mention the post sales service is about as bad as the post sales service on your Huawei phone. I’d rather buy a KIA.

Because price point.
I can get the top of the line BYD performance sedan for less than half the price of the Tesla and Kia dont do a 500hp sedan.
- I think they were joking with the Kia. They've implied that the Tesla is so bad, even a Kia is better.
<gasp!> You mean they made a UX for their target market!? SAY IT AIN'T SO!
And the people I know with BYDs don't have any problems with post sales support. Perhaps you just need stronger consumer protection laws in your country.

Tesla's are defective garbage.

I was considering Starlink

Not anymore

I avoid Teslas because a Tesla will last maybe 5-6 years. A Civic will probably last longer than I even want to own it, to the point that it may be the car I die in if I don't sell it.

I don't think Tesla has to exactly meet those demands, but halfway would be nice.

My 2000 CRV won't fucking die. It has 265k on it, and half the electronics don't work, but it starts every time, the AC & heat work great. It leaks oil like a sieve so about once every 2 months my 'reminder' light (oil) starts blinking in corners, so I pour some more in and the thing just keeps on. It'd be nice to get something newer, but I kinda promised myself that I'd drive this one into the ground, and don't really want to take on another car payment anyway.
- Had a Toyota Corolla like that when I was young. Suspension creaked, exhaust rattled, oil cap had frozen on, rear electric windows didnt work, and no heater. I thought I'll just drive it until it died. Only ever put gas in it. Damn thing just kept on going and going for 18 month. Ended up giving it away for free to a friend.
You know the batteries are warranted to 80% health for eight years? Teslas are still too new to know how well they last but early Model S tends to be still on the road after ten years and counting
I used to think similar about a Civic, but mine only lasted 11 years (electrical issues, paint issues, airbag issues). I have every reason to expect my Tesla to last similarly

The best electric car currently is the Volkswagen ID.7. I agree with Musk. Buy it.

/previously Tesla Model 3, now the ID.7

After their stunt with diesel emission measurements, VW is permanently on my "will never buy from" list, alongside Chrysler.

In reality, the average person doesn't care and doesn't follow news about Elon.

Techbros do techbro things and assume the loudest voice in the room is the leader. the blind leading the blind.

My pillow car!

I just waiting for my Aptera.

The promised 10 mpkwh is exciting. Hopefully it actually begins mass production. Any year now…

It's interesting that two of his proposed three options are "hate" or "like." It seems like most people would have said "hate" or "love."

Apparently he has sufficient self-reflection that he knows he'll never be loved.

No real chads would buy a shitty Tesla car, because real chads has old cars

Real chads ride bikes and public transportation
- Find hot single chads in your area (on the bus of course! or driving a perfectly functional 2010 camry)

Electric vehicles were made to save the auto industry not the environment. His shitty friends that own lithium mines are the highest benefactors.

It's almost as if I SAID EXACTLY THIS. But you just had to be that "Well Akshullleee!" guy, didn't you?
Do you even read before your knee jerks?

What portion of potential buyers? I am, for example, no longer considering a Tesla because of Musk, but I doubt very many others are truly consciously avoiding them for ideological reasons ( pertaining to Musk )

The article appears to be from April.

If I was going to buy an electric car, I'd get a Nissan Leaf if I didn't have a lot of money, but if I did have a lot of money, maybe I'd buy an electric BMW. They look pretty nice.

I've ridden in a BMW EV. I'm ... divided. It's not terrible (by any means!) but it doesn't seem to be quite what I'd look for at the price.
- Fair enough, I have no idea what they're like to drive or ride in. I've just seen a few and I think they look cool. I also see more EVs of other brands so I guess there's more choice than ever.

It’s quite telling that most of the Musk spam I get comes from this community.

On build quality alone, I just wouldn't buy anything manufactured in the US or China, full stop.

Say "I don't know what I'm talking about" without using those words.
- Ooh boy. Lets look at resale values of Chinese vehicles vs... pretty much anywhere.

Chinese cars? The best? Lulz

https://ttrpg.network/post/10954836/10042718
- That's good a link to another reply to me, how about you provide some independent sources with comparisons to alternatives built outside of China

I was able to separate my hate of Elon with my love for Tesla so I got a Tesla anyway. Why get an inferior product just because you don't like the CEO? Seems like a weird hill to die on.

EDIT: Seems I triggered some. Suck it up.

I don't know. Why did you get an inferior product despite disliking the CEO?
Thanks! You helped fund Trump's presidential campaign.
Because we as consumers have the power to change the world, if only we can be bothered to wield it. Most can't, and that's a huge problem.
- It's a prisoners dilemma. Why should I sacrifice if everyone else doesn't? And then nobody sacrifices.

This article is from like 6 months ago? All that talk about Tesla plummeting, while shares started rising at the end of April and doubled since then.

As for your personal comment, you're free to use public transit if you prefer. I would rather not be dependent and waste hours extra a day just to get somewhere.

But it's pure hypocrisy to lecture about "effective" means of reducing emissions, and then proceed to mention Chinese mass produced electric vehicles as preferred cars.

You know, perhaps you should actually learn about China's EV environment before mouthing off about it. You and your fellow Sinophobic cohorts are looking dumber every day.
Want to know how good Chinese EV technology is becoming? Tesla is buying BYD's batteries…
- You're free to teach everyone about how clean and environmental-friendly the Chinese industry is. Instead of calling me a racist.
  Or were you just here to advertise?