UK police probe Bob Vylan's festival chants against Israeli military, as US revokes band's visas
UK police probe Bob Vylan's festival chants against Israeli military, as US revokes band's visas
When did IDF become a protected minority group? Is saying "Death to Nazis" not allowed in the UK?
I'll get downvoted for this but what im about to say is an undeniable fact. Chanting death for anyone is inciting violence and murder, UK governments and police can't be allowing that, especially as there is no death penalty.
Yes I know, the IDF incite violence and murder, but does that make it OK to do in UK?
Did they say "IDF" or "IDF members/staff"? IDF isn't a person, so maybe it's more of a metaphorical death, as in dismantle the IDF.
I dunno.
It may not be legally ok, but it is definitely morally ok to incite (and perform) violence against a genocidal force.
Crime is only legal if there's a war. Or if you're a cop. Or are rich and influential.
What a shitty article. It's so heavily biased in favor of genocide.
They are literally all doing this. There is more confected outrage about this than the actual slaughter of civilians by the IDF. I feel like I'm going mad.
They are engaging in an absolutely ridiculous campaign of gaslighting. It's so outlandish and over-the-top that it would actually be hilarious if it was on a lighter subject matter rather than genocide, terrorism, and a litany of war crimes.
Happy cake day!
They didn't even do the most basic of work to attempt to put forward a front of journalistic integrity. They didn't give Vylan a chance to respond to the article.
There was a really interesting podcast on the AP style and its entrenched biases - but only available to subscribers:
https://www.canadaland.com/podcast/bonus-who-writes-the-rules-of-news/
An article on the same topic:
https://www.currentaffairs.org/news/how-the-ap-stylebook-warps-reality-to-serve-power
What did you want them to say? It’s not an opinion piece.
They should be more neutral in a non-opinion piece. They quote a lot more people saying pro-genocide things than they quote people saying anti-genocide things. They quoted pro-genocide politicians and pro-genocide BBC staff. They did not give the musicians any opportunity to respond to the article.
Israel’s war against Hamas in Gaza has inflamed tensions around the world, triggering pro-Palestinian protests in many capitals and on college campuses. Israel and some supporters have described the protests as antisemitic, while critics say Israel uses such descriptions to silence opponents
Let's consider the two positions mentioned in this paragraph:
The first position is described as "pro-Palestinian", as if these protesters support the Palestinian military (Hamas) and want them to win. This is incorrect. These people mostly just want the genocide to end.
The second position is a shitty opinion, but also contains an overt falsehood. It's an objective fact that it's false, and that fact should be reported in the story, but it isn't.
I hope the entire world's eyes are by this point open to the hypocrisy of the West. Kneecap and Bob Vylan being labeled outrageous or on trial for terrorism for... words, while weapons shipments continue to flow to the IDF, Netanyahu (with an arrest warrant for war crimes) flies through EU airspace unhindered, and the bombing of civilians in Gaza generates less news than a chant at a concert. Absolutely disgusting.
Disgust and rage doesn't come close to expressing my emotions.
This is the capitalist hydra they created- money equals morality. How can we be evil if we're making so much money selling weapons to a genocidal terrorist state? What was that, you don't like it? Sssh, if you hurt our cash cow we will hurt YOU.
Worshipping the golden fucking calf.
Capitalism is a form of government where instead of citizens having one vote each, they have one vote per dollar they own. It's a cult, and it's a fucking cancer, and it will kill us all if we don't stop it.
Oh, don't discount the Racism.
People aren't being investigated by police for criticizing Russia.
If it was only about money, they wouldn't have reacted as they did to Russia's invasion of Ukraine given all the money many were making from Russian fossil fuels and mineral wealth.
The big difference in the reaction to Russia's Genocide in Ukraine and to Israel's Genocide in Gaza (which is way worse both in numbers and in how many of the civilians being murdered are small children) is that in Ukraine the victims are Whites as are the aggressors whilst in Gaza the victims are (brown) Muslims whilst the aggressors are Whites.
At least amongst the power elites, especially in places like the US, UK and Germany, White Colonialism isn't just this old 19th century practice we fortunatelly left behind, rather it's a way of viewing the world which very much alive and widelly held.
Thank you for the sacrifice Vylan
To be honest I had never heard of Bob Vylan before, so the people screaming they should be banned (so they dont become known?) reached the opposite effect, at least for me personally.
Same never heard of them, but now streaming them to show support. They’re playing in my city on Saturday so might pop down.
I've been upping the listenership for kneecap and Bob vylan for about a month now. Saving for hard copies to help support. This all reminds me of the satanic panic that was so common when I was a kid. Such fuckery to suppress an idea.
Yeah, discovered an interesting artist through this
Yep. Just picked up their albums on Bandcamp to support them. I grew up with Rage Against the Machine and my little mind was blown when Evil Empire came out - these guys remind me of them.
Found their music thanks to this and I love it.
I was going to link their merch store so people can keep supporting them, but almost everything is already sold out lol
Death to the IDF.
https://bobvylan.myshopify.com/ is the link in case anyone wants it
Meanwhile, the nazi IDF can come and go and take a break from genocide in the US and the rest of the these European countries
I wonder what the term is for anti-palestinian? The equivalent to anti-Semite but for Muslims I guess? Just Islamophobia? That doesn't have a good ring to it. We need a good term to use that Palestinians can play the racist card with for the next 100 years like Israel does.
Not sure, but on a side point I reject any "anti semitism" claim because:
So maybe actually we should re-purpose antisemitism.
Good question. It’s a venn diagram of Islamophobia, anti-Arab racism, and anti-Palestinian hate.
Whatever it is, the only way to win this battle is for people to start using that new word to call out people who are quite obviously hateful. With enough use of the word over the years, it will have the same shameful effect as what they have done with the word the other side uses
We need to start banding together and voting these pro-genocide politicians out of office.
Oh, AIPAC supports you? Enjoy getting primaried. Watching their heads spin when Cuomo lost to Mamdani was fucking gold.
Calling for death of any group is not allowed.
Gotta be fair to the genocide force of course.
Like they're not an ethnic group or comprised of innocents. This is a force whose express intent is genocide and displacement.
The IDF, being an occupying army, under international law is absolutely a legitimate target for violent armed Palestinian resistance. Legitimate target of violent armed resistance. It's the law.
Wait, you can't even say a group should be eliminated? Not even people, but a group‽
Is "defund the police" also a bannable offence now?
Does this include the Russian military?
What about indirect stuff such as "The Ukrainians should crush the Russian invaders" ?
You can't stop the mouvement and Palestinians has the right to self defense whatever you like it or not
“From the river to the sea, Inshallah one day Palestine will be free!” Yeah what a vicious chant.
C.E.A.R.T.A. and Death Death to the IDF!
Israel has killed at least 100 people waiting for aid since dawn.
Okay, I'm gonna say something very controversial, and the mods might not like it, but hear me out:
Adolf Hitler deserved to die. If I had a gun and he was alive standing in front of me, I would have aimed the gun to his head, and repeatedly pull the trigger until I ran out of ammo, then reload, and keep shooting at him until I can confirm that he is indeed dead.
DEATH, DEATH TO ADOLF HITLER!
Tell me, is this "advocacy of violence"?
Nooo poor Hitler :(
I am very interested in this pending response.
Mods can't stop the mouvement
I would say it is slightly. But only because of the part where you would keep shooting after reloading.
Today on the menu we have pureed Hitler à la Inglorious basterds.
The inhuman madness of finding the problem regarding this situation to be protestors of Israel's genocide, and not the genocide, is as absurd and abhorrent as it is overwhelming.
Let's get outraged about and strive to cancel and imprison someone who used violent language at a force that is mass-murdering children. Just surreal. What leads someone to become this fucking detached from their humanity? It's just incomprehensible.
Hell yeah, if you're not ready to loose something you're not protesting right.
Israel will be remembered in the History books the same way Germany circa 1930's is today.
Not if the fascists keep winning.
fuckign catchy though
The chant has been living rent free in my mind for days now.
“Have the Rolling Stones killed, Smithers.”
Bob Vylan! Bloody auto spell.
America is not only the enabler of Israel, The American government is the one pulling the strings. America is as much a Nazi state as Israel, And when they are done with the Middle East they will find someone else to exterminate. We are all in danger.
Not only US, Germany, France, UK, Italy, and most likely Canada, and Australia. With a genocide you don't get to stay silence, if you are not even condemning the genocide, that mean you are part of the bad guys.
Can we rename the Streisand Effect to Vylan Effect now?
This song of theirs is fucking fantastic btw!
Holy shit, that's good.
No I'm sure that's an absolutely wonderful use of their time. Maybe they can post about this on Twitter rather than the 3g of weed that they seized.
W Rappers L UK
Death Death to the IDF
This was on the mind of Hamas fighters on October 7th. It actually resulted in lots of death to Palestinians.
Peace and coexistence brings life, future, and prosperity to Palestinians, not eternal war.
Nwo is the old governments.
Look, I agree with their sentiment and want to commend them for using their platform for advocating an end to this genocide. The US should absolutely not be considering it in granting visas.
But, yeah, maybe don't do a chant calling for death to another country's military. Don't make it so easy for them. Make them ban you for simply saying "free Palestine". Don't let them say it's because you made threats of violence. Bring the majority with you, don't push them away.
In 1944 would it be controversial for someone to chant "Death, death to the SS!"? If people can't see the genocide and see that military force against the genociding organization is necessary to stop it by now then they won't be 'brought to our side' by using a kinder chant. It's a type of civil disobedience, it brings more attention to the BBC and UK's complicity in the genocide.
In 1944 would it be controversial for someone to chant "Death, death to the SS!"?
Um... Yeah. I'm thinking it would have gone down more or less the same as it is now. Loads of sane people agreeing with the sentiment, but the ones running the show wouldn't and their bootlickers would follow suit.
“Death, death to the SS!”?
What would it have accomplish? What does it accomplish?
It gets Lemmy known as a hotbed of terrorism. It may cause legal and/or political trouble for the admins of the site. And what does it do that other words don't?
Look at all the discussion here and consider how it is or isn't limited. What's happening in Gaza is a genocide. The IDF is responsible for it. What do death chants contribute to that conversation?
DEATH TO IDF
This kind of reasoning immediately makes me think of MLK's famous quote:
the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action
You're gonna compare chants at a festival to MLK? Come on.
"Free Palestine" is not antisemitic. Criticism of a nation state's armed forces is not antisemitic. Especially when those armed forces are objectively committing genocide.
Pfft...
Only the rational and reasonable buy into what you're putting forth here...
Which completely and entirely excludes any/all MAGAts and other assorted fascist/authoritarian types that appear to be consuming gov'ts globally.
🤡 🖕 💩 💩
Also excludes pretty much every establishment Democrat
Also excludes quite a lot of Liberals - a lot of people who've been brainwashed over the last 3 decades with the fake "leftwing" idea that "it's not Racism if your descriminiatory acts and judgements favor those of specific races rather than disfavor those of specific races", are having trouble processing the situation were the self-proclaimed representatives of an ethnic group they've learned to see as "victims" and "good people" are actually committing an extreme Genocide along ethnic lines.
I mean, many have change to the Humanist position that "people should be judged and treated based solely on what they support and they do, independently of race", by many if not most are still ridding the whole "the entire race are victims" idea and de facto supporting Genocide by attacking the critics of the depraved genocidal actions of the self-proclaimed representatives of the "victim race".
This shit would have never reached this level if it was only the openly Fascist being Racist.
I think the issue is the other chant, now I’m not saying that is anti-Semitic at all as that’s insane.
For what it’s worth fuck the IDF, terrorist assholes.
I'm sure "death to the IDF" is what some people have issues with rather than "free Palestine"
chanting death for any group idendity en mass will always be controversial, even if it's for Nazis
I guarantee you can find droves of zionists that say "free Palestine" implies the destruction of Israel and is therefore antisemitic.
No, chanting death to Nazi was never controversial. It wouldn't even be controversial if it was death to the Russian army .
You are denying Palestinians right to self defense by opposing the chant death to the IDF