Windows 11 just isn't enticing Windows 10 users to upgrade, and its market share is actually falling
Windows 11 just isn't enticing Windows 10 users to upgrade, and its market share is actually falling
My win10 upgraded without asking. Win11 is horrible, I'm going to wipe and reinstall win10 again. As soon as update support stops, it's Linux for me. Screw Microsoft. They even added ads as notifications and they are going to put ads in the start menu. Wtf! This is the end of windows, I'm sure.
during the great Mastodon migration in 2022 I saw someone post how they head to unlearn scrolling past every 6th post or so on their timeline, because that's how the Twitter app was displaying the ads. I wish Microsoft the Very Bad and daydream about year of the Linux desktop, but something's telling me people will get used to ads on Windows the same way.
You're definitely right. Facebook got super shitty and most people didn't leave. Netflix got super shitty and most people didn't leave. YouTube got super shitty and most people didn't leave. Amazon's shitty video service got even more shitty, but Fallout was about to come out, so most people didn't leave and I bet they actually got more subscribers (but idc enough to look it up). It seems like most people have accepted that things just get shitty over time. Or maybe they're just not noticing the shitty changes? Idk. It's hard to look at our projected trajectory as a species and be left with much hope. There's good in this world, but it seems like none of it is coming from companies.
I had the same experience when switching from the reddit app to Boost. When Boost stopped working for reddit, I couldn't stand it so it was bye bye reddit my entire pc connection is ad free. There's a filter in my router, strong filter in my vpn and I have blockers. I do not watch streaming services, I download everything through usenet with an automated system on my NAS. I have no TV. I order groceries online, I never enter a store. My phone has filters too. I live completely ad free. But then Microsoft comes, and says "fuck you, here's an ad!" on MY machine. Without consent. I was boiling.
I'm testing out Tiny11, which is basically Windows 11 without the bloat, and so far the experience is great!
My secondhand laptop from 2019 went from taking two minutes or more each to boot and to shut down in the full Microsoft monstrosity to less than 10 seconds for either in Tiny11 and the general performance is also dramatically improved!
(I'm speaking generally, not criticizing you personally.)
It's amazing the great effort to which people will go to try to compensate for Microsoft's abusive behavior, often while simultaneously claiming that switching OSs is too much effort.
Projects like Tiny11 are the computer equivalent of "oh, this black eye? I got it falling down the stairs and definitely not because my partner hit me."
Folks get mad about Linux evangelism, but it's really no different than friends saying "leave his ass; you're too good for him!"
Sounds good, I'll go check it out :)
I'm using StartAllBack and have found it to be a rather nice experience.
Yeah but that's only UI issues. It also runs much slower then win10. There are massive performance issues. Next to that I have less rights to do stuff. Few days ago I wasn't allowed to forget Bluetooth devices for example. Even in control panel bt settings. After XP it all went downhill with accessibility of settings. Fancy setting pages with restricted options. Why, what's wrong with control panel? I know it's still there, and we still have WIN+X but it's getting placed behind more sub menus and restrictions and more and more is being removed to make it idiot proof. But it's also locking me out. I want full control over my machine. No one tells me what I can and cannot access on my device. Fuck Microsoft.
My win10 upgraded without asking
Oh snap, so the only thing that stopped mine was because it was not compatible?
Wtf Microsoft!!!
I'm so glad I'm stuck with a "your hardware doesn't support windows 11" message.
I disabled my TPM in BIOS so Windows would never upgrade
I think this is a pretty big deal and they are shooting themselves in the foot with these unnecessary restrictions.
Same, out of curiosity, I checked my system for that and got the message.
Even if I didn't, I'm not going to sit around all day as 64GB of "required" stora- oh I mean bloatware to install on my system.
Windows used to function fine with 2GB of storage. It does NOT need 64GB and Microsoft can get fucked.
Windows 11 was what finally forced me over to linux for good, no more dual booting. I know it sounds strange, but the straw that broke its back was the taskbar. I have an ultrawide monitor, so I ALWAYS have the taskbar vertical on a side. It makes zero sense to have it at the bottom. Massive waste of space. Windows 11 DID NOT HAVE THE ABILITY TO MOVE THE TASKBAR. I was flabbergasted. This is a feature that has existed for decades in every OS. I just couldn't comprehend the stupidity, so I just didn't. Formatted the drive and went to Arch, then to Tumbleweed. Couldn't be happier.
I ran a poll a few years ago on Reddit asking people what event made them switch to Linux from some other platform. Interestingly enough it was not the EOL of a preferred version of Windows or MacOS, but the introduction of a dreaded new one. In other words, according to my poll, more people quit using Windows not because Win 7 support ended, but because Win 8 was released. Which was counterintuitive to me.
It feels to me like every second version of Windoof is shit if you start at XP (my first Windoof OS, no experience with earlier ones):
Until now I was able to skip every second version and could wait until the newer and better one was released. But now it seems that I need to make a complete switch to a suitable gaming Linux OS. I don't have any other use for Windoof.
Your poll results feel therefore relatable to me. I want a system that just works and with which I can do everything I need to. I don't mind testing new features. Often I welcome them. But if I can already expect that I have to adjust to new features which are unavoidable, and from which I can tell – either by reading reviews or testing myself – that I really don't like them, then of course I stay with the system which doesn't have them as long as I can still do everything I need to.
Well, it's been shown with previous releases and this one that Windows gets really pushy about upgrading long before EoL for the previous OS, so I can understand the frustration. Especially annoying if you're running something like a kiosk or a TV app that doesn't have mouse/keyboard readily available.
I have an ultrawide monitor, so I ALWAYS have the taskbar vertical on a side. It makes zero sense to have it at the bottom.
I've been wondering this for YEARS. Why the fuck are we wasting SO MANY PIXELS on the long side? I'm not opening more apps... They started stacking windows under one "app" icon... So I'm using even LESS space. I don't need to waste 75x3440 (5% of the monitor space) pixels on this shit. I'd rather waste 75x1440(2%). Because everything I do fits in that space fine.
I downloaded a third party app that re enables the windows 10 taskbar and lets you put it on the side. It's called ExplorerPatcher. Cannot believe you can't dock the win 11 taskbar on the side....what a choice....
SAME! I like to have my taskbar at the top of the screen, and seeing that Microsoft had absolutely no intention of allowing it because of their oh so special start menu sent me over the edge. Been full time on Linux Mint for about a year now and I'm loving it. Proton and Lutris have made it surprisingly viable for gaming, to the point where I can runmost games without any troubleshooting.
This and the worse right-click menu make me dread the day I have to switch at work :/
Microsoft needs to re-evaluate the support window, because nobody's buying Windows 11. They fucked themselves with the high hardware requirements.
And an incomplete product; windows 11 was less functional at launch than windows 10. I've been a windows user since 98 and that's the first time I can remember having said that. Sure, there were off editions that were weird and unpleasant, but I wouldn't say less functional. Windows 11 just flat out was an incomplete product at launch.
And the live service dependencies: windows 11 pooping its diaper and having a fit about every other thing because it doesn't have an Internet connection even though an Internet connection isn't strictly necessary is a terrible UX choice. Anyone with half a brain knows it's because MS has decided that if you won't let them slurp that tasty, tasty data, then you shouldn't be able to use the product you paid for.
And the plans to stuff ads into your operating system
And them basically doing the same shit that landed them huge anti-trust lawsuits in the 90s, but we're doing it again because they figure they can make more money than the lawsuit will cost them, so fuck it.
There's a lot to not like here.
They don't have to make people buy it. They just have to stop supporting 10 and have no new machines with 10 pre installed. It will naturally invade our lives.
Right now we're releasing Windows 10, and because Windows 10 is the last version of Windows, we're all still working on Windows 10.
That was an effort to get people to buy new machines. I loaded it on my gen 7 i7 and my gen 8. Both run it just fine but microsoft insists that one is good and one is bad. Its all about new sales.
I dunno if it's the hardware requirements. The ads are the thing I don't want. Not sure I see the point of moving the start menu either.
Windows 11? Let's see here...
Spyware/malware since that infamous Windows 7 update sending everything (including passwords) to Microsoft. Ads spread across the UI in W11. Simple features hidden or disabled. Bing Internet search results in the Start Menu that can't be disabled unless you edit the registry. Search engine in the Start Menu cannot be changed. Numerous other previously simple settings changes that now require registry edits. Menu items gone, and others that still exist but inexplicably have been removed from the Start Menu search. Edge browser forced down your throat no matter what you set as the default browser. Upgrades that you can't do at your convenience and forced restarts that happen even if you have open files that you're editing. Long (sometimes really long) upgrade restart times. Forced Microsoft account use to install and use the OS & Internet access required to even install the OS. Absurdly inflexible hardware requirements that make no sense for most people. A taskbar that can't be moved. Numerous programs and garbage spread through the OS that cannot be removed or disabled.
Besides that, what's not to like?
You left out the forced rounded corners.
Holy shit.
I fucking hate that rounded corner mania which is spreading all over UI design decisions almost everywhere you look.
I can tolerate it with window borders, but if rounded corners hide content, e.g., of videos or images, it really irrationally infuriates me.
My screens are rectangular. Not rounded. I paid for those pixels, so fucking use them! ò_ó
Windows 11 sucks ass, but I really get tired of people saying you are forced to use an account. There are multiple ways to make a local account in 11 when doing initial setup. It just sucks that it makes most people think that they have to use an account
Yeah, this sounds like Louis Rossmann's "rapist mentality" that he's been harping on for a while. They think they own your hardware just because they make software, so they'll force you to do whatever they think is "best" for you (which is probably using more of their products).
Just say no.
Software should give you an incentive to upgrade. I use Linux 100%, and I'm excited to use the next version because it'll fix issues and add features that I'll actually want to use. I'm on openSUSE, and here are some things that I've been excited about recently:
Software should entice you to upgrade, not force you to upgrade. That has never been the case for me for Windows, so I bailed and now use Linux, where it absolutely is the case.
I loooove my openSUSE desktop. 11 was the last straw. No amount of AI is going to bring me back.
I HATE advertisements, and I paid for Pro but it seemed like they didn't care. They want to milk me for everything I'm worth.
Good thing we have options. Linux has gotten so good, it's better than Windows 11 while letting me decide how to use the OS. Big learning curve, but it's smooth sailing when you get past it.
Its a downgrade. It offers nothing but ads. Who wants ads? Why do they feel the need to keep altering the interface? If microsoft manufactured automobiles they would switch the brake and gas pedals every other year.
Why are people still surprised?
I can't really think of a reason why 10 is listed as good, does it actually do something better than 7? Even just graphical interface?
Windows 7 is good compared to Vista, but bad compared to Windows Xp SP 1 or SP 2 (in my memory at least). Windows 10 is good compared to Windows 8, but bad compared to Windows 7.
After a couple more years of MS pushing win 11, we'll probably get a win 12 that is less good than win 10, but better than win 11, so thanks to people's short term memory, it will then be considered "good", but anyone with a memory and some critical thinking ability will recognize it as shite.
They put some under-the-hood improvements in 10 that they didn't put in 7, such as a new display driver model and Directx 12.
But that does not make a difference to most people. Industry desupporting of Windows 7 is the biggest con to it.
Eventually, 10 will share 7's fate. So you'll have both 10's regressions and 11's and so forth to live with as long as you're on Windows. You can't stop Microsoft from desupporting and killing their software in the long run.
Microsoft has a multi-decade history of enshitification when they do not perceive any major threats. Internet Explorer, DirectX, Windows Server, etc. all rotted. Some of these are still active and supported, yes, but they all peaked years ago and are aging poorly. Microsoft doesn't really do the labor of love thing much when customers are bagged.
Linux may be able to dethrone them to an extent if it can reach an ease of access/UX that most people are comfy with. And it has made huge strides over the years. It can also run most Windows software very well.
Mac is still priced very high and still feature-limited and a 2nd/3rd-class citizen when it comes to platform targeting. Offering lower priced conputers would make them a pretty big threat I think.
I think ChromeOS is a decent threat to Windows but it loses tons of features vs all the other options. At least it is really cheap and easy to use.
XP fucking sucked. It wasn't good until service pack 3.
You skipped 8.1 which was the good version that fixed the stuff that sucked about 8. It's existence is almost completely forgotten.
Then Windows 10 came out and it was bad.
They then had about a 10 different OS builds that all had the Windows 10 name instead of giving each build a new name or calling them service packs. The OS that exists now (22h2) has almost nothing in common with the OS that came out in 2015.
Windows 11 has also had several major leaps since that name started. What's current (23h2) is much much different than the OS that came out in 2021.
Windows 2000 is also missing and was probably the last time Microsoft put out an OS that was good from the start rather than sucking on release.
Also the ones listed as bad from Vista onwards simply never got the improvements.
I agree with everything you write, but I'll also add an unpopular opinion as someone who tested the beta version of Vista and hated it: Vista x64 SP2 was a good OS, which solved most of the issues that existed with the OS.
And into this day, it's the most beautiful Windows UI, at least for me.
Windows 10: Good
People keep repeating that but it's by far the worst and actually the one that made me bail. What is it that good about it that made it worth sacrificing user choice, privacy, performance, latency, search, startup time, solitaire, and much more?
Good stopped existing after 7. Only bad and slightly less bad.
You're missing Windows 2000, but I guess you can argue that's Windows NT not mainline Windows. That was definitely in the good camp, and I was not alone in sticking with it for many years (until XP got good).
Edit: I see @NickwithaC@lemmy.world beat me to this point.
Windows 95: Good
Windows 98: Bad
Windows 98 SE: Good
Windows ME: Bad
Windows XP: ~~Good~~ **GOAT**
Windows Vista: Bad
Windows 7: Good
Windows 8: Bad
Windows 10: Good
Windows 11: ?
Fixed it for you, thanks!
Edit: strikeout not working as expected...
95 is the best OS of all time.
Never any love for Win 3.1
Too bad win 12 is on track to break the streak.
Y'all need to get yourselves that Windows 10 2021 LTSC IoT badboy (IoT part is important). It's supported until 2032 and it's only bloat is edge. If I had to use windows again it would be that.
Oh no, that's not all actually.
That version doesn't even have the Windows Store, which is a huge bloat of it's own. Oh and it doesn't even stop there, apparently Microsoft treats even their Pro-users like trash nowadays, that you have full control of what you do on the Win10 2021 LTSC/LoT as opposed to the Pro version and it costs more.
I was going to ask how WSL gets installed without the Windows Store, but looks like the install path doesn't use the store anymore. That was one of the few things I ever used the store for.
You can switch from Windows 10 pro into that?
At a cost. But mind as well pirate since Microsoft is so eager to shove people to Windows 11.
Haaa
Just get ltsc image from Microsoft and crack it. Its much less of a hassle
I couldn't find a version of this that would work in a VM. The few I tried were "preactivated" and then complained about hardware changes when I tried to install in a VM.
No I'm not asking people to find me a working release. I'm just complaining that I just can't be assed mucking around with unlicensed installations.
That's one hell of a thumbnail
It goes so hard, I love it
Maybe I'd they added more ads I'd be tempted to use it....
/S
No it needs more AI. Maybe AI-generated ads. The killer tech of 2024. The shareholders will be so pleased.
All the reviews (written by Ai) say that windows 11 is the bees knees!
I must admit I'm on the edge of jumping ship, even the software which has been keeping me locked to windows is getting less and less appealing.
I had to help my sister keep her 8 year old Mac going or buy a new secondhand (cheap) machine. With the options out there and with the state of Windows, I didn't even consider it.
She's ended up with her same 8 year old Mac with Ubuntu 24.04, and I've been really impressed with how it's actually great for non-technical users these days! And works really well on old hardware.
This should give her another few years of life out of the thing without worrying about software support.
Go for tumbleweed, it's supporting wide range of architectures (including even powerpc so you can still use powerpc macs) and it's rolling release distro on top of that
It's frustrating. There's a lot of Windows 11 that I do actually like: Massively improved HDR support, far better DPI scaling features, tabbed file browsing, a unified control panel again (yes I know if you look hard enough you can find legacy panels), configurable snapping regions for Windows, gaming focused features with screen recording, intelligent capture, etc. On the power user side: the terminal, winget, built in ssh support and broader compatibility with Linux development toolchains, and if you're the kind of person with a family or friends you do tech support for regularly the Quick Assist's current iteration is a godsend.
But then the tradeoff is ads, increased telemetry, AI integrations, inability to move the taskbar, a piss-poor local file search, increasingly restrictive desktop customizations via third party tools, shorter support periods for Windows feature updates, and generally a lack of overall feature control due to low level integration with core Windows services.
I don't think Windows 11 is a bad operating system in the sense that I believe it to be a marked improvement on a feature by feature comparison to Windows 10. But it feels like two development arms at Microsoft are consistently at war with eachother. Some want to implement really cool features and tools for end users, and the others are hellbent on locking the system down and forcing this Apple philosophy of "use it like we want you to".
yes I know if you look hard enough you can find legacy panels
In some case you have to actively looks for the legacy panel, because the new ones don't allow to change certain settings.
I hate local file search in Windows. So many times I've wonder why my machine is crawling and I go to the taskbar and discover Windows search indexer is killing my machine.
For the other stuff in Windows 11, I wonder if it knows I'm in Europe because I've not seen any egregious advertising - it has the default shit they set up for you like the MSN home page in Edge which is annoying but it can all be changed.
Ironically Baloo is probably the most commonly hated KDE component. Desktop Search seems hard.
This is why I use winaero tweaker and disable all the telemetry stuff. Win 11 feels good after that imo
They should have just kept incrementally upgrading W10. People don't like big changes and there's not much encouraging people to 11 except 10 going EOL.
IIRC, that was actually the plan. I remember Microsoft saying way back that 10 would be the last version of Windows and everything would be just upgrades to 10 moving forward.
System as a service. I remember that as well. Obviously they didn't make as much money with it as they wanted to. Sooo they just draw an arbitrary line regarding supported CPUs, ditch Windoof 10, push 11, force users to upgrade their hardware and therefore often force them to buy new licenses and making new friends that way by starting that in the middle of the chip crisis. Then, captivating the user in their new OS, shoving ads down their throat, harvesting their data to make even more. What a shitshow.
Which is exactly why I actually bought 10 instead of cheating an upgrade "hack" I figured out with XP that I then carried over to 10. I figured if it's actually the last then it's worth the 500 fucking dollars or whatever the hell it cost back then.
But no, they lied. I know surprise surprise a corporation lied.
Well yeah, but the problem is win 10 isn't built from the ground up to be able to cater for ads inserted into your welcome bar, explorer bar, settings page, start menu and personalised ads ...... :( we live in the worse timeline dont we.
This isn't the worst timeline. It was always destined to end up this way. Corporations consider themselves ethically mandated to squeeze as much profit out of customers as they can, to find the exactly monetary line where the number of customers they drive off is balanced by the money they can gain by the things that drove them off. They actually believe that, and that basically means any profit-seeking corporation is going to ruin their user experience in the long run.
I wonder what's happening?
For me, It's linux mint on my main PC, goodbye windows.
Due to changes in my life and career, the only reason I'm stuck on Windows is gaming. I'm not sure which will happen first, buying a Steam Deck or converting my computer to Linux for gaming, but at least one of those will happen before I upgrade to 11.
I was in your boat a few years ago. I was familiar with a few linux distros because of my job but I was hesitant to switch because the games I was playing didnt have native linux support. Eventually, I started daily driving Ubuntu and after some minor tinkering with steam and lutris, I could play any game I wanted without any issues.
That said, while I think Ubuntu is a great distro over all, there's a part of me that worries that its only a matter of time before it goes to shit... So within the last year, I made the switch to Debian 12 and I flatpak'd everything. It was seriously one of the best decisions I've ever made in the context of personal computing. Seriously, its fucking seamless. Fuck windows 4 lyfe. All my homies hate windows.
if you don't play certain multiplayer games that use invasive anti-cheat software, then you really should give it a go! It's gotten to the point where I first buy games and then worry about compatibility. The vast majorityic just work with minor tweaks at the most (setting some launch arguments usually)
You can always dual-boot. Bazzite is a very stable Linux distro, which is optimized for gaming and basically gives you the same experience you would get on a Steam Deck. I highly recommend it.
I'm installing Linux on my machine this weekend, will probably go Mint, I've heard good things. Goodbye Mi¢ro$oft!
I wonder what’s happening?
In general...
Microsoft is being pushy and has started to enjoy that far too much.
This started with things that could be argued as things that users shouldn't control (like refusing to patch update... you can't really refuse anymore).
It then pushed to things that is a little less defensible (you were asked to update from Windows 7 to Windows 10... but they really don't want you to say no).
Once you are on the newer Windows 10 or 11, features just arrive that you have no say about because Microsoft determined it is better for you (you have AI, now AI on your taskbar, in fact you have an AI key on your taskbar, you will use Microsoft AI... the AI will just sift through your entire computer so that it can jump in front of your face to emphasize that you should use their AI!).
They points all have the same theme. Microsoft knows best, you will do what Microsoft wants, and Microsoft won't really take no for answer but may let you say "bother me later"... maybe. Once you are really pissed off, your only option is to leave a Microsoft operating system... which Microsoft is pretty sure you can't figure out on your own (more reasonably, you won't care to put in the work to learn another way) so Microsoft OS it is! Microsoft is a tad worried that those people are starting to wander off to get Google Chromebooks or just use their Android smartphones... those take less effort and more people are opting for that...
Still, Microsoft is relatively sure that people will just put up with what they are doing. I'm pretty sure they will... until they won't. Microsoft will be fine so long as they don't cross the line into the "until they won't" territory. Once they won't put up with that nonsense anymore, it is far harder to woo them back to a Microsoft OS in the future.
I am so glad I switched to linux for 95% of my tasks and only need to boot windows once per month
Same, but now once/month is more like once/year. I don't even remember why I needed to boot into Windows last time...
Yeah I had to do it today to vectorise some images for my gf in adobe ilustrator. But yeah I cannot really recall the last time I booted windows or what I did it for. I jave also been having issues for the past 2 years with windows just constantly adding in the fucking english keyboard layout for me and I cannot remove it so it happened often that I would accidentaly switch to it (because for some reason there are a million shortcuts to do that) and then I would type stuff incorrectly.
I keep checking videos on YouTube from time to time about whether it is worth upgrading to Win 11 now (which people keep releasing regularly). Keep deciding it's not worth changing.
Then I sold my laptop and had to use my Steam Deck for a couple of months. At that point I thought if I'm going to learn a different OS, then I might as well go all the way and jump over to Linux. Been very happy with OpenSUSE ever since.
This was my general takeaway. My laptop is showing it's 9ish year old age considerably. I picked up a used Steam Deck and I actually love everything about it except that it's really not powerful enough to replace my laptop. I'm interested in building a desktop, and SteamOS taught me that modern Linux is not super complicated, and now I know that it's not a huge pain in the ass to troubleshoot because the community isn't nearly as toxic as I was expecting. So unless I learn of an even better distro for general use, gaming, streaming, audio recording, and video editing, all for somebody who is experienced with Windows and not much else, I'm leaning towards Nobara.
The only real hurdle I have is that it's hard to justify dumping like $1200-1500 on a computer when I already have a PS5, Steam Deck, and gaming laptop. I really don't need it.
Depends on what you want to do. I sold my 2 year old gaming laptop and managed to spend 2 months getting amazing bargains on secondhand parts to make an amazing gaming PC. The Steam Deck and that does a great job of streaming the more demanding games from the PC.
The 9 year old laptop might be surprisingly functional if you use something like ZorinOS on it.
I'll be honest, troubleshooting is still a gigantic pain in the ass sometimes. But if you can get over the hill of setting up the OS, then you're good to go. The thing that's made Linux bearable for me is AI. If I have a problem then I write it out in Copilot or ChatGPT, and it usually gives me the solution on the first try with a command o can just paste into terminal.
Tumbleweed, leap or slowroll?
Tumbleweed....and Kubuntu before that....and EndeavourOS before that....and ZorinOS before that.....and Linux Mint before that.....and Ubuntu before that.
But I've finally found Tumbleweed to be the OS to stick with. Although I do sometimes feel tempted to go back and try EndeavourOS now that I know more about Linux.
I'm pretty sure he is using Tumbleweed.
Huh. So shitting on your customers is a bad thing?
Wow who would have thought….
I use Linux at home exclusively (Linux Mint Debian Edition).
Don't need Windows for anything but when I worked Enterprise IT the move to Windows 10 was a massive pain but we finally got it working and it wasn't too bad as an OS. There is no reason why you'd want to upgrade.
As for home users, from my experience people don't like change. If you move a single shortcut on the desktop , they are lost and panic .
So changing the entire look of the UI is not something people want. Plus Windows 10 auto update borked some windows 7 systems so users with that memory won't be keen to repeat it by upgrading to 11.
wow that's amazing lemmy reddit poster #234750 please tell me more about this incredible thing
I literally can't install it even if I wanted to. If they removed that requirement the rollout would be the same as any other update.
I wasn't able to when it launched, because my CPU was too old (Ryzen 1700). I have since upgraded to a Ryzen 5600X, which I think works, but I honestly don't think I'll bother checking. I'm on Linux 100% except for the one or two times a year that I boot Windows to check on something. Linux doesn't have silly requirements, I just get more features if the hardware exists.
Good. Windows 11 is trash.
I can't wait for massive security problems on corporations once they shut down W10 support and those corporation considering if keeping with windows is woth the risk and the cost anymore.
You mean like they did when Windows 7 went EoL?
Or when Windows XP went EoL?
Or when NT 4.0 went EoL?
This isn't the first time Windows has gone EoL in a corporate environment; what makes you think it'll be better or worse than previously? Some will begin the Win11 transition, some will pay for extended support until Windows 12, a few might switch to Linux, and the rest will run unsecured until circumstances force them to fix it.
This time around there are hardware requirements. Corporations equipment is not usually the latest hardware, and windows 11 is pushing customers to buy new hardware.
I suppose for many corporations upgrading to windows 11 would also mean upgrading the computer, which is an increase cost.
I'm cautiously optimistic.
I think some smaller companies and government/ civil organisations might switch this time around. But probably most large companies will pay for long term Windows 10 support then begrudgingly switch to 11.
Those switching could use something else, but lets face it the only option mature enough other than Mac OS is Linux. Regardless of the number of organizations that do switch the increased exposure should make the idea of an OS that has no license fees being used successfully very tempting to a lot of people.
We see this everytime a new Windows comes around.
You'll have your hopeless Windows users who're equally as bad as Apple cultists. Screaming at you to upgrade because "THE SECURITY! THINK OF THE SECURITY! YOUR SYSTEM WILL FUCKING DIE IF YOU DON'T GET YOURSELF SECURED!1!1" when all you fucking do is just check e-mail, oh my god. /s
But the fight to resist upgrading has gotten longer and will get longer. Going by the Windows OS global stats of it's marketshare, 3% are still clinging to Win7. 23% hopped to Win11. 70% is still Windows 10.
By the time Windows 10 loses it's extended support (that isn't the Enterprise edition), we're going to see the changes then.
YOUR SYSTEM WILL FUCKING DIE IF YOU DON'T GET YOURSELF SECURED!1!1" when all you fucking do is just check e-mail,
Yeah because not only is security for idiots, checking email is an inherently riskless process, immune to security issues.
I don't think it's been the case that there has been a backslide, though. Win 11 marketshare peaked, then declined, and then 10 increased.
I'd probably say a blasphemy, but ordinary workers only experience problems for their old HDDs\systems are overstuffed and are far from their prime, so they ask for entire new PC to start fresh. New Seven x64 on SSD is what most people would'be okay with*, since it's compatible with new Office document formats, doesn't need much resources or space, and can still do everything except for niche tasks. It's not as morbid as Vista\8, not yet filled with bloat like 10 or 11, not as limited today as XPx32 with older driver delivery model. I don't know much about security stuff, but I feel like older systems falling from popularity are not the usual targets of people who write them, and encountering one using an outdated OS would probably mean nothing since exploits they want to abuse aren't there yet.
Linux would probably be better, but that's still a hard sell for businesses that don't use it intentionally.
I don't know much about security stuff, but I feel like older systems falling from popularity are not the usual targets of people who write them, and encountering one using an outdated OS would probably mean nothing since exploits they want to abuse aren't there yet.
The issues that are going to be the problem eventually are vulnerabilities that affect both new and old versions of Windows. The new versions will get the patch, but 7 won't. And it still might be worth exploiting to hit the machines with the newer version that don't update quickly or at all.
I just turned off tpm and my laptop has mostly stopped nagging me about upgrading. I did get a notice that win10 support is ending soon.
It's not just Windows. I have an iMac (I used to be a video editor and it's standard) and it's 7 years old, so still Intel, and I'm still running Big Sur, which is 3 versions behind, on it because why bother upgrading when I get no advantages out of it?
That sort of thing probably has an outsized effect. They get hate it at first because everything is different, then they have to use it at work, and then they get used to it and want to use it at home.
I waited until the last day of support to upgrade from Windows 7 to 10, I plan on doing the same with Windows 10.
With Windows 10 and 11 Microsoft has been gradually removing control from the user's hands and I'm still miffed about that.
I upgraded to 10 and my old laptop with a hard drive became unusable. I got multiple years of Linux from it instead of trashing it.
Yeah, modern Windows and HDDs don't mix well. I refurbished multiple laptops and each time just throwing in a cheap SSD (and cleaning the cooler + sometimes reapplying thermal paste) would breathe new life into them.
That's why I scope out for old laptops from time to time. It's pointless to hope for it to run today's Windows OSes. But to write it off as completely useless is stupid when you can throw any desired Linux distro on it.
Though I have noticed that Ubuntu does get harder to run on old laptops.
It's been a gradual process and I do say that it started with Windows XP. People look at Windows XP with loads of nostalgia, but they conveniently forget how aggravatingly annoying it was with how often it kept prompting you about what you're about to run. Like with the greyed out screens, asking whether you're administrator and all that. It started with Windows XP.
And it has gotten worse since to where now this system you've paid $900 for that happen to have Windows pre-installed or maybe you bought that separately for another $200, so this $1,100 system you have. You can't control it all.
I'm still having troubles to understand why'd they even want Windows 11 to happen and I'd really like some more informed people to help me out.
They had massive mergers as an unpredicted expense. I also don't know many people who bought the last XBOX unlike previous gens or ever used MS Store. Is that sweet lobbying money from hardware producers? I thought they planned Windows X as the peak Windows platform to then sell internal products (game-as-a-service but OS), so did this plan failed?
Windows 11 looks like an afterthought and the centered taskbar may be intentionally put there to make it look different from Win10 while it's probably the least changed new release as I learnt after a brief encounter with it (after XP, I don't know much about earlier OSes).
Had they just run out of money?
lol
I can vouch for that I have windows 11 and I want to go back to windows 10
Geez Microsoft, I wonder why? If a product is good, then it doesn't need to be pushed onto consumers.
I've already decided I'll be going full Linux when Win10 reaches EOL.
I like it, I hope you do, too. If you decide to try beforehand I'd suggest a second machine or a VM. Apparently Windows is a massive pain when dual booting, like it commonly deactivates the Linux bootloader.
It slowed down my desktop experience significantly. Like it makes no sense at all. One day I'm working I solidworks on windows 10 and old computer at acceptable speed, the next I get assigned a new, bastly improved computer, with windows 11 and solidworks latest version, and it's slow as fuck! I just want to end it sometimes. It lags, it crashes, it's worthless! SW is worthless on its own, but with windows 11 its like 10 times worse. I think they are actually serving it on a server secretly and we are just remoting into it. It behaves almost exactly as when using remote desktop. It's terrible and I want it gone!
I think Win10 already is everything what I need.
I have gotten a small feel of 11 from my girlfriend's laptop - it feels alright.
But I think I won't have reasons to upgrade. I haven't studied 11 at all so I don't even know am I missing something lol
What's the big deal with Windows 11?
I don't use either win 10 nor win 11 much but I do know that I barely notice the difference.
I thought it was just a start menu rearrangement or something.
There’s a lot more telemetry. They’re stuffing ads into it (start menu, explorer panels, etc). They’re creeping generative cloud AI into it. The control panel/setting situation is unbelievably unfinished (for myself, all my audio devices take the name of other audio devices so they’re all working but mislabeled). A recent update broke all VPNs. High system requirements. Locking down features. Removal of customization. Buggy updates. Slow.
Not trying to defend Win11 too much here. But the system requirements aren't bad until you see how much storage it needs and how much it needs for all of the unnecessary fancy junk they put in to have the "best Windows experience" like Windows Hello.
Microsoft initially wanted to get rid of Control Panel entirely, which would stick us to the bare set of options we've been seeing degrade since Windows 8.
How would you notice a difference in something you have no experience with?
You don't need to actively use something to have a general idea of it. Maybe it's not on his machine but he sees friends/family use it. Maybe he's seen ads, reviews, YouTube videos, articles.
I've never watched NASCAR in my life but I'm fairly certain I could point out differences between one of those cars and an F1 car.
I didn't say I have no experience.
Bro I moved to Linux years ago. I dont use Windows at all
That's weird. Do people not want ads in the computers they paid for begging them to subscribe to their own hardware? Do people not want LLM models watching everything they do and reporting back to headquarters? So perplexing. Welp, the users have spoken, hopefully Microsoft can figure out how to iterate. Maybe they want more ads and AI all over?
Honestly, Windows 11 works quite well, as a Windows system, but it feels unfinished. It feels like Microsoft pushed out a pre-release built and it trying to rush out fixes and completion patches.
And it's not even as if I care one much one way or another, I moved away from Windows ages ago (decades, really). I only keep a partition around for the odd game, and it's just staying around so that I can setup my Oculus CV1 again one of these days. It got upgraded to Win11, but probably hasn't booted in over a year.
I boot Windows sometimes on my laptop where I kept a small 200MB partition, mostly to see what it looks like nowadays. I'm not certain the various updates are making the experience better (at least judging from my quick twenty minutes, tour, so that's admittedly not worth much).
Its the only version of windows i ever had where the start menu of all thing stopped functioning. I had to restart. Wtf?
That thumbnail looks almost exactly as I would expect Zombie Jamie Hyneman to look like.
Why did the emoji picker of W11 get so fucking downgraded?
And the windows+P multi monitor control doesn't work before login in 11 because it's part of the taskbar now
Seriously can someone fix this
Nested right click Windows are a deal breaker on their own before any real issues even pop up
My daughter has a Windows 10 notebook for school. We haven't seen a reason to upgrade yet. If Windows made a "never bother you again about anything you don't want to be bothered about" version of Windows 11, we'd upgrade because that's so fucking annoying. I hate Windows.
Once, I was asked if I wanted a special offer on Microsoft Office on boot up. Explorer freezes so often for me when I right-click a file and select Open With that it's made me twitchy. Frequently image icons stop displaying. For a long while, every time I've installed Windows on a computer, I've had to go through and disable all the awful misfeatures Windows tries to put in the taskbar. I also always have to set OneDrive so it doesn't redirect folders like Desktop and Documents into its cloud storage area. Now Windows 11 is threatening to put CoPilot on my desktop, and I'll have to disable it too.
I'm positively longing for Linux now.
I had to do all the same things on my work computer. If MS could stop shitting all over my taskbar that would be an amazing expression of basic decency. I'm about to go to IT and ask for a Linux computer that I can test with my day to day tools to make sure everything works. Typically only a few devs have them and those of us in support roles are on Windows. Microsoft is literally sapping away the time and effort my employer has paid me to put towards their customers. I use Linux at home and it has none of these problems. Actually, the worst problem I've had in years was a broken package that I simply uninstalled and re-added from a different source.
Honestly, windows gamers upgrade to windows 11, Linux users stay on Linux, and everyone else is on android/ios and in no hurry to do anything about the laptop collecting dust most of the time.
Companies are also more likely to pay the extended support a year or two and update when the computer is replaced.
Its only on here on the fediverse people have time to complain about windows 11. (well some of the gamers might but more likely due to unstable systems on the newest i9 chips, since you launch steam, discord and a browser and alt tab between them.. ignoring the start menu)
Here seems like people think everyone will say "welp, that's it, going linux!". Dude, most people I've talked about it, regular people who don't spent their lives experimenting with tech, don't even know what linux is
I want to just convert to using my Fedora 40 KDE install, but there are just too many blockers for me, both hardware and software.
The problem would be the push they are doing on corporations to move to 11. I know multiple cases they are struggling to do so because the mess windows 11 does with other custom applications.
You forgot Windows 2000 which was good
Let's also not forget Windows NT, Windows 2000 predecessor.
What a joke 🤣
I have Windows 11 on a couple of machines and honestly it's just Windows 10 with a somewhat slicker taskbar and control panel. Functionally it is almost identical. I'm sure there is a random bunch of changes on the periphery but it's really not a compelling proposition if someone has Windows 10 and is happy with it.
Oh no. This is terrifying.
I don't have an issue with win 11 since I disabled the ads. But these news smell like new and unnecessary "advancements", to make it more marketable. They'll ruin it completely...
too bad you have no choice soon good luck
People are still using windows?
At this point just the chuds.
BuT ThAtS LiKe 90% oF alL UsErs, PohtoShOp, VidYaGamEs, HeRp DeRp
I didn't fucking stutter.
It enticed me to start gaming on Linux. So its definitely doing some enticing
I thought I was alone in this lol
Win11 literally made me rage uninstall it after I got mad trying to remove all bloatware and then it showed me onedrive ad
What was your experience switching over to Linux and getting it set up for gaming?
If you primarily game using Steam then it's easier than ever on most popular distros. Biggest hassle is likely still GPU drivers. I've never had any issues there but depending on what card you have you may be better off with either proprietary or FOSS drivers depending on what your distro of choice likes to provide by default. After that most games tend to just work, a handful may require you to pick a beta version of proton or something.
If you want to try it and don't want to do a lot of tinkering check out PopOS. It's probably the friendliest distro for gaming out of the box.
The main setup went smooth. I can recommend nobara which is what I used. I tried garuda as well, but it wasn't my style. Personal preference, no hate :).
Most steam games work pretty good ( see protondb ). ( make sure to set your steam settings > compatibility to all games ).
Any game with invasive anti-cheat will likely not work. LoL and valorant come to mind. I think some of the cs2 ones like faceit won't work on Linux. But standard cs2 and competitive work fine.
Battle.net gave me some issues on lutris until I forced it to proton.
Overall I've had a good experience. Sometimes a weird issue if I alt tab ( hots ) that it comes back super tiny. I worked around it by running it windowed fullscreen.
Overall I've no regrets so far. I installed nobara and it's quite user friendly. I've never used a fedora distro before ( more extensive experience with xubuntu/Ubuntu/pop ).
Helldivers 2, heroes of the storm and ff crisis core worked flawlessly.
Hots needs to run full screen ( windowed ) or alt-tab will make the screen tiny for some reason.
So far: no regrets.
When you first play a game it needs to compile the shaders first. So on your initial game there's a few minutes ramp up time. But any next times you start the game should be fine.
Not the original poster, but my experience was fairly smooth. I had minor issues with wifi drivers, and I got a new GPU that had some driver issues because it was pretty recently released (I guess the open source drivers didn’t have time to be updated?). In terms of actual gaming, basically no issues. I mainly use steam and proton has been bliss, I’ve bought multiple games without even checking compatibility, and it just works. To my knowledge there is only one old game where the multiplayer doesn’t work, but everything else has been seamless. Mint cinnamon is what I’m currently running.
I switched over from Win10 to PopOS! about a month ago. It hasn't been 100% painless but it's leaps and bounds better than the last time I tried to switch 5-10 years ago. For reference I'm in an AMD CPU and Nvidia GPU, NVME drives for both the system and game drives, SATA for a data drive, NAS for media. I've only reinstalled once because I broke everything tinkering with different desktop environments, but it was an easy recovery with the install media.
All the correct drivers were installed from the get go. I managed to overwrite my cloud save for Horizon Forbidden West because of an issue mounting my game drive and mapping the correct install location in Steam, but that was 90% on me because I rejected the idea of making a backup copy of the files because "I know what I'm doing". I ended up wiping my game drive entirely and reformatting it as EXT4 and haven't had any problems since - the drive was NTFS before and had a handful of games already installed from Windows.
A couple games require finding the right Proton version to run it, but GE works flawlessly for most things I've tried. Everything has run as fast or faster than in Windows with the exception of WH4K: Darktide. There's some microsecond delay in there somewhere that I couldn't pin down. Didn't seem to be video or network related. It's the kind of thing that I bet I wouldn't notice if it were my first time playing the game, but since I've got a couple hundred hours in it, it is just enough to throw me off and make me feel slightly drunk.
Base Ubuntu with the non snap version of steam has been great. I only play a few games, helldivers, some rouglites, and apex. The thing I miss with windows is HDR and auto HDR. HDR will be added in plasma 6 but I had issues with it on KDE Neon but once it's on a stable build it will be good.
I've started doing non-gaming on my steam deck. Not a lot but its let me use Linux in a very basic way.