'Very troubling': Leader of 'Abandon Harris' movement now anxious about Trump appointees

"Many in the movement, including prominent Muslim leaders, voted for Trump hoping he would bring peace to the Middle East"

How the FUCK would you hope for that? Have you been living under a rock and didn't know who Trump actually is and what he does? The Muslim ban Trump? That Trump? Bringing peace to the Middle East? Seriously?

The American electorate is stunningly stupid and disconnected from reality. Look up some of the trending Google searches on election day, they're stupider than you think
- Like the ones confused that Biden wasn't an option.
- decades of dismantling the education system will do that to you...
- Devotion to religion is also a red flag for inability to think critically. Being conditioned not to think for yourself is a tenant of all religions. The more fundamental the less thought is happening. Trump and the republicans have realized this and used it to his advantage almost exclusively.
Yes: the guy who banned Muslims from entering the US on his previous term will end the war and bring peace to the Middle East.
monkey’s paw curls
palestinians are thoroughly genocided and Gaza + West Bank + other lebensraum in the area have all structures reduced to grade #7 gravel
That is also technically peace, in that there is no more fighting. It’s just a really bad one.
Truly, the gullibility of some people simply beggars belief.
- Yeah, his vision of peace was Israel getting rid of anyone who they don't have good relationship with.
Wait wait, I remember a guy who was constantly arguing and berating everyone about how Biden was just the worst Satan reincarnation or some shit and how we all needed to band together against both him and Harris. Oooh @HomerianSymphony , you still around, bud?
We'd like an interview.
- They were probably just astroturfing, and now that they've successfully completed their objective, they've got no reason to stick around.
  I still see a handful of the useful idiots that were on here paroting those talking points, and I have to wonder if they've been able to accept that they were sold a bill of goods.
- Looks like that user no longer exists, at least on Lemmy.world
- What did sticking with genocide Joe and Kamala get you? They knew they were gonna lose and didn't change course 1 bit
He just tried to start a war with Iran, NBD.

I voted for Harris. I voted for Biden. I voted for Clinton.

I still wouldn't warn a single one of them if they were about to get hit by a bus.

Its harm reduction. They don't solve anything. They just keep us treading water sinking slowly whereas Republicans start taking a hammer to the hull to open up new holes.

I voted for Harris. I voted for Biden. I voted for Clinton.
I still wouldn’t warn a single one of them if they were about to get hit by a bus.
American Democracy in a nutshell. You get two choices, they're both awful for different reasons. One of them wants to see you executed for your religious beliefs/sexual preferences/nation of origin. The other is continent to sell bunker buster bombs to some raving psychotic mass murderers overseas. Nobody is going to do shit about climate change, though, so we're all on the clock in the long run.
Its harm reduction.
It increasingly feels like the closest thing to harm reduction the US achieved was the time Trump fucked up his COVID response and a bunch of his senior leadership choked to death on their own lung fluid.
- bunch of his senior leadership choked to death on their own lung fluid.
- There was roughly 20 different elected positions on my ballot.
  The real problem with American politics is everyone is so focused on the POTUS that they ignore the politicians who have an actual measurable effect on their quality of life.
  I challenge anyone to look up your local town hall and see when the next city council meeting is. Go to it and see what they talk about and vote on. Notice the other people who go.
  Many cities have public meetings for police oversite too. They're even less attended than city council meetings
- It increasingly feels like the closest thing to harm reduction the US achieved was the time Trump fucked up his COVID response and a bunch of his senior leadership choked to death on their own lung fluid.
  Herman Cain approves this message.
- There’s only one man who’s done any meaningful harm reduction in your country and your judicial system is charging him with terrorism.
- American Democracy in a nutshell. You get two choices, they're both awful...
  The democratic process doesn't start on election day.
- I generally agree with your point, but the MIC is a bad example; both parties are equally happy selling bombs to murderers.
Harm reduction is bad?
Obviously, it's not ideal, but one has to act according to the real life conditions... And in 2024, our only two options were "harm reduction," and literal fascism with literal concentration camps.
Fuck you if you didn't choose harm reduction.
- To be fair to them, we're just delaying collapse. It is a choice.
  I agree with them that there's no saving this constitutional structure. In one sense it's cowardly, because there's no escape from this capitalist slaughterhouse hellscape without collapse. Collapse is necessary. Trump will certainly usher that in faster.
  But Im too much of a softy to let the blood that always has to spill be on my hands.
  This country was irreparable since Reagan, a zombie nation oligarch piggie bank. My vote was a cowardly one for a few more years of quiet orderly slaughter, NOT peace.
  But we lost, so the slaughter will be loud and bigger than it's ever been, so maybe it's time for revolution if we want our kids to have anything left.
  Because in 4 years the DNC WILL anoint someone to meet Trump's economy in the middle, and even I may not be able to stomach voting for that.
- If you're only voting for harm reduction year after year and doing nothing to try and organize grassroots opposition to the lesser evil, yes constantly voting harm reduction is bad. It's how you allow lesser evils to grow into the larger evils of the current DNC, who care more about fundraising than winning.
- Fuck you if you didn’t choose harm reduction.
  ...thirty years of choosing harm reduction brought us to this point...
  ...i held my nose and voted against fascism, but if you want to blame someone, blame the fcking fascists and blame the thirty years of harm reduction which enabled them: pluralities win, that's how american democracy works...
- Fuck you if you didn’t choose harm reduction.
  With caveats.
  A lot of people who chose to just not vote were given a choice between two people who want to genocide their family... Harm reduction wasn't offered to them.
- Neoliberalism and harm reduction wont work anymore. What the fuck do you think America has been doing the past three decades? If you want to beat republicans, you need to elect progressives, otherwise fascism will keep on rising.
- If your friend is an alcoholic getting wasted on a bottle of vodka every night, switching them to beer because it has less alcohol is not harm reduction. Rescuing a young woman from Jack The Ripper and giving her to Jeffrey Epstein "for her safety" is not harm reduction. A professional fighter concerned about CTE switching to football is not harm reduction. The lesser of two evils is very much still evil.
- voting is not harm reduction.
Same.
But there's not enough willing to hold their noses for us to reliably win elections.
So it doesn't make sense to blame anyone besides the people at the DNC actively stopping the type of candidates those people would love to vote for and instead cramming someone the majority of the party dislikes down our throats and hoping enough hold their noses.
Like, not even from a perspective of which policy is better, just on the basis of what wins elections...
Why isn't the DNC backing the candidates who are most popular with Dem voters?
Why do they keep picking the ones that will get the most donations, then trying to use that money to build up to less than the support the popular candidate already had?
And why the fuck is anyone blaming anyone besides them?
- And why the fuck is anyone blaming anyone besides them?
  Because if the democrats can deflect blame (again) they don't have to deliver the change obama promised all those years ago.
Those are all neoliberals, nothing good would come of them being president, and the voting results speak for themselves. Neoliberalism wont work in this country anymore, if you want to beat republicans, elect progressives.
harm reduction has a specific meaning..voting is not harm reduction.
- It quite literally is a reduction of harm. If two options are presented one is extremely harmful and one is slightly harmful, then voting for the slightly harmful one is a reduction of harm. Harm. reduction.
  I don't know what you are talking about with "harm reduction has a specific meaning..voting is not harm reduction." because the words literally mean a reduction in the amount of harm, whether active or potential.
  Even if you can provide an alternate definition, that is more of an example of the versatility of the language allowing multiple definitions, than any commentary on the current subject.

I have zero sympathy for those who only regret their vote for Trump now that his policies - which were always obvious - come back to haunt them personally.

HE SAID HE WAS GONNA
- AND I DIDN'T THINK HE'D ACTUALLY
- Trump's word and actions rarely line up, he isn't right in the head enough to know what he's doing, but if he thinks it helps Trump he will.
- So did Harris.

Many in the movement, including prominent Muslim leaders, voted for Trump hoping he would bring peace to the Middle East.

😂🫵

Well, when you completely crush a region, what comes after could be called peace, I guess.
- Y'know, you've got a point...
🤡

“Abandon Harris” movement, you mean half of Lemmy? Where are you clowns now?

Moscow. Same place they've always been. Just a lot less work to do now.
- It was a lot of .ml which are CCP(China), not Moscow.
- Yes. Putin must have had a stiffy ever since November.
I see them everywhere still. Since she did lose, sounds like they were right about Kamala being a bad candidate.
Why are you guys still putting your head in the sand and determined to blame people on Lemmy, which is an extremely niche community, for the election results instead of helping boost the voices calling for the Democrats to give you guys better candidates.
You had 4 years to make a change, but you guys would rather just blame people that wants actual improvements and still doing so after you lost the election despite getting the candidate that you supported. It's really funny to watch.
- I don't agree with you, which means you're a bad poster.
- Bernie lost. Does your logic apply there too or only when it’s convenient for your argument?
- I agree that Kamala was a "bad candidate" in that she wasn't very electable, despite being an intelligent, eloquent, respectable leader.
  It seems like the main concepts that sank her are simply that she's not a white male, and sadly Trump seems to have this unshakable perception that he's good with money despite all evidence to the contrary.
  That said, I think there's a lot of self reflection to be done amongst those on the left who sabotaged their own candidate. They were protesting about Palestine outside Harris' rallies for goodness sake. I don't think this specific demographic is responsible for losing the election, but they are idiots that need to consider their approach to societal change.

I’m not disagreeing that leopards face an obesity epidemic but it’s also very interesting that to r image you posted has a “紅星新聞” (Chinese) or “Red Star News” watermark.
- It's all the faces they've been eating, they're having a banger year of it apparently

Bryarr Misner, who worked as a campaign manager for the Abandon Harris campaign in Pittsburgh, admitted they voted for Trump, with NBC reporting, "He said the point of the Abandon Harris campaign was to punish the Democrats for supporting Israel during its war in Gaza, which the campaigners view as a genocide, and he hopes the Trump campaign will be more willing to negotiate with group leaders."

This is a person that was only ever going to vote for trump. Dipshits up and down.

I mean Trump said what he has to say about Gaza. He supports Israel. This was before the election too. They have no excuse.

voted for Trump hoping he would bring peace to the Middle East

what

I guess you could argue that total eradication of anyone that Israel hates will bring peace so they were sorta right
- Like bringing balance to the force by murdering all the Jedi. Technically correct

I would really love to be in the room with these idiots the moment they hear that Trump has signed the law that will arm Israel to the teeth and sanction them to exterminate every Muslim in Gaza. I want to see the terror and regret in their faces. Because this is what they have wrought.

But Kamala Harris had Liz Cheney on stage with her that one time!!!!!!^/s
- Honestly that's a whole other problem. The Democrats need to fucking stop courting the "moderate conservatives". Those fucks will N E V E R vote for a Democrat over a Republican. No matter how godawful they are.
Wow imagine if the whitehouse continued to arm israel and give them a greenlight for ongoing genocide. What a terrible world that awaits us in 2023-present
I mean, I'm assuming you also hope he doesn't do that because you care about and value the welfare of Palestinians, right?
I get this is your imaginary "i told you so" moment, but can you try not to sound positively giddy about it.
Also, have to do the obvious and point out that the IDF has been armed to the teeth and already exterminating the population of Gaza for over a year now. They shot 5 journalists and 5 doctors yesterday. The homeland of the Palestinians is all but entirely destroyed, comparable to damage on the scale of nuclear weapons. Their homes are gone. Their land is stolen. They are starving to death in droves. The rest are being rounded up and shot en mass. The current administration is arming the IDF, funding the IDF, and preventing the world from intervening to save Palestine.
- This isn't a wish fulfillment. This is inevitability because Trump isn't going to hold back. Harris might have toed the party line because the Democratic party is just as leashed to AIPAC as the Republicans but at least they were making an attempt to stop Israel. Trump has said that he will give them everything they need to wipe out everyone in Gaza. This isn't about "I told you so" it's about accountability. The moment the country voted Trump in Israel began just ignoring Biden's pleas to end the carnage because they knew that on January 20th they will have all the support they need.
- Meh, of course we wish and hope he doesn't, but everyone knows that he will. He's repeatedly said so.
  It's an extremely real and tangible "I told you so" moment for myself and everyone else who repeatedly and vainly told people like this over months that this would happen. Because of course it would. The best possible chance we had was to elect Harris and hope that the rumblings about her being much more forcefully against it in private turned out to be true, because no 3rd party candidate stood a farts chance of winning, and Trump explicitly campaigned on acceleration.

Many in the movement, including prominent Muslim leaders, voted for Trump hoping he would bring peace to the Middle East.

Dipshits

I voted for the Westboro Baptist church because I'm a transwoman dating a cisman and I imagine that putting them in a position of power over me can only go well. /s

Show me a trump voter who is not a wealthy white male and I'll show you an idiot.

Why exclude the wealthy white males?
- Because they might just be selfish and evil.
- Mainly because they are members of the class of people that will benefit, directly and indirectly, from a Trump presidency.
  Knowing this, they aren’t stupid for voting for the person who will enable the gross accumulation of wealth through the systematic deregulation of industries and privatization of government services. There’s one group of people who will benefit from this: the wealthy (who are disproportionately white and male).
  The idiots are people who voted for Trump thinking that his administration will result in a net positive for them socially and economically.
  Voting against your interests is dumb; voting inline with your interests is not.
Just pointing out that the richest man in the US is an African illegal immigrant.
TIL tax law hinges on a persons color.

Way to go assholes. You fucked around and now we all get to find out.

The leopards are looking mighty hungry.

No no no,they saved Palestine, remember?

Now that the Dems aren't in control all those Palestinians are perfectly safe.

Right, tankies? That's all you were screeching about back in November. Now it's cricket chirps, like Palestine even mattered to you lot. Disgusting.

I love how you are being downvoted without anyone actually providing a counter point. Because you are absolutely right.
Leading up to the election lemmy was flooded with Palestine bullshit and Genocide Joe, and people that suggested it's a war started by fucking Israel and you should be boycotting them were downvoted.
A lot of people here got swept up in the propaganda, and it was painful to see how dumb my side can be, but here we are.
Orange man is coming and suddenly no-one is posting about Palestine and every thread I'm in doesn't have people screeching genocide Joe.
I'm fully convinced lemmy was flooded with foreign assets spreading bullshit and hurting democratic turnout.
It's painful to see how effective it was, an an issue so ridiculous I couldn't have believed it if it was in a book. Country X, with president Y attacks Z, and idiots here are screaming at county U with president J......
- It wasn't just Lemmy, I know otherwise reasonably intelligent people who became literally brainwashed from TikTok. We're talking far left, never Trumper's, knew he was an existential threat, but couldn't have their moral superiority tarnished and HAD to vote 3rd party. They bought into that propaganda hook, line and sinker.
There has been a recurring argument (not mine, heaven forbid) both prior to and in the aftermath of the election that not voting for the dems would show them that they can't keep running away to the right and still expect to win. It would teach them a lesson.
It baffles me that they think a) the Dems would actually learn the lesson, b) the alternative wouldn't be that much worse and c) the alternative that quite explicitly aimed to abolish democracy entirely would willingly afford the dems a chance to learn that lesson. If they can't eliminate democracy itself, they'll try to neuter and bias it as heavily as possible until they've got the same kind of pseudo-democratic one-party fuckery that you see in other countries like... China, North Korea, Russia, Belarus...
Huh, that's funny, seems like all the countries whose boots they're so eager to lick. I'm sure that's coincidence, right?
Actually, that's a lie. I don't believe it's coincidence at all. I think it's part of a deceitful strategy to undermine democracy through spreading willful ignorance and channeling voter frustration and disillusionment into frustration with democracy itself. Hell, there are even people claiming that a dictatorship is a necessity of revolution, that you can't build a new and better system without placing someone in charge of building it - because that worked out so fucking well with the other communist revolutions, right?
Every single fucker who gargles dictator cock under the guise of "communism" and "leftism" is an authoritarian, a traitor against the people they feign class solidarity with. You don't save democracy by not participating. You don't hold politicians accountable by supporting their opponents.
And that's being charitable and assuming they're just misguided, not intentionally malicious foreign actors.
- well said
I'm not from the US but I know that I would really struggle morally to cast a vote for either party.
Yes, voting for Trump because of Palestine is stupid, but I can easily see how voting for the party that keeps sending money and weapons, and supporting them in the UN, while pretending to ask them to "be more careful about killing civilians", would not be very desirable either.
The US electoral system is absolute dogshit, but in my opinion the Dems lost this election all by themselves.
Edit: are the downvotes because you disagree, or because you're upset that I'm right?

Leopard, meet face.

Well, this is all very fucking stupid. WHAT THE FUCK did they think was going to be the outcome? Did they really think donvict was going to be better here?

They were caught up in the moment and fell into the trap of thinking the current moment will last indefinitely.

🐆🍽👨🏻‍🦲

Unfortunately it boiled down to selecting the lesser of the two evils and the Abandon Harris clowns chose the neo-Nazi MAGAts which will send, for free, a nice assortment of 155 mm artillery shells to Israel.. From my point of view, zero sympathy for your FAFO.

I'll never understand how people could vote for Trump over Harris on the Israel thing.
Trump was crystal clear he would give Israel whatever they needed to get it done and quick. Democrats rolled over for Israel but at least made it known they weren't happy about it. Which is most certainly not enough but still.
I just hope the Democratic party takes the hint that their extremely middle-of-the-road approach to these and many other serious problems is killing them during elections. They should stop trying to please everyone (and especially the far-right) and commit to an actual opposing viewpoint.
- The Democratic Party is not trying to please everyone. They're answering to their owner's commands and campaigning to voters in ways that don't offend their owner's demands.
- Honestly I'm thinking a lot of this was another Russia-sponsored propaganda campaign. I've noticed that WhAt AbOuT IsRaEl is coming up a lot in response to articles or discussions about the shit they're pulling, as if one can't oppose the shitty actions of both.
- No Trump lied he would bring peace. Harris said she would give Israel everything it needs. You are switching the sides around.
Yep. They're getting exactly what they voted for, whether they like it or not. They might not have liked Harris' limp wristed attempts at encouraging moderation and restraint, but Trump's plan was to "Finish the problem" and will not just enable, but actively encourage genocide.

Need to start handing these out to people
"They're eating the faces of the wrong people"

Leopard, meet face.

I actually had to check where this was posted....

Trump has only ever wanted to glass the place.

The utterly bizarre thing to me is I don't really think he's tried to hide any of this. Like he's pretty much doing what he said he was going to do, he's done it before, why did anyone think he was going to do anything different?
- But but but you see b b b Biden bad because [mental gymnastics intensifies].
- Before the election he did try and deny any connection to or intent around project 2025 - of course the mainstream media never called him on that bullshit.

Trump doesn’t negotiate. He’s a tyrant. They’re in for a world of hurt and punished a lot of innocent people with their votes.

How could anyone have seen this coming.

We fucking told you so.

How could they have been that stupid as not to expect this??!

Alt Timeline: "French Revolutionaires doesn't believe their leadership is good enough, supports the Monarchy instead" 🤡

looks awkwardly at Napoleon in our timeline.
- Also... like... the Reign of Terror. Maybe some of the French Revolutionaries should have given more thought to their own leadership. How historically ignorant is this moderately well upvoted analogy?

Well, after four years of Trump we aren’t going to have to concern ourselves with Palestine, because it’s going to be “more Israel”. Thanks to these dumbasses. The leopards will be obese crime feasting.

An evolutionary marvel: the human without brain

hypocrites, these people are two faced hypocrites. they get what they wanted with the election and now their all upset? if these people are not the definition of a hypocrite idk what is.

Well, they voted for the leopards eating faces party and now their faces are being eaten by leopards. Huh.
Funny how that works.
- They voted for the democrats?
anti genocide voters are not hypocrites.
- People who ignore the realities of strategic voting in a FPTP system, then pat themselves on the back for their moral superiority are hypocrites. Anti-Genocide wasn't even on the table. Ignoring literally every other issue that was on the table just so they can feel good about throwing away their vote makes them hypocrites.
  The Palestinian people have gained absolutely nothing from those anti-genocide votes. They're virtue-signalling at best, intentional spoiler votes at worst.
  Meanwhile, there are labour protections, checks on corporate enshittification, mechanisms to slow down the accumulation of wealth and institutions of democracy that the incoming administration will tear down (or at least try to) that the alternative wouldn't. All of these are victims of that arrogance, to think that an anti-genocide vote is worth more than an anti-christofascism(+genocide) vote.
- Lol

Fucking dipshit.

It gets harder to continually extend sympathy and solidarity with all of the fucknuts who are ostensibly allies on the left, when they focus on a single media-focused disaster, and they try to "send a message" to their own side, by backstabbing them and helping the fascist who will be 1000x worse.

Progressives who proclaim their hate for both parties are simply binary thinkers whose privilege insulates them from the consequences of their "principled stands". They wonder why the country doesn't just hand all power over to Progressives... go blow.

Congrats on getting exactly what you deserve.

No shit.

shocking - It's almost as if there was a coordinated media campaign to paint both sides the same, and convince a bunch of people to vote against their own self interests. Absolutely did not see this coming... Nope, absolutely not.

It's almost like they didn't know that Trump was the only other choice on the ballot with how shocked they are about this.

The Abandon Harris campaign was quite clear they did not expect Trump to be better. The writer has a pretty clear agenda.

Discipline the voters. Don't dare try to influence our constantly right drifting policies. You better vote for us no matter what or else.

Did they actually have a movement? I thought it was obviously a fake movement created by the right to sow division.

Sounds like the democratic party should replace First Past The Post voting in states they control then.
- Oh, so republicans can win easier?

Their faces were made strictly to be eaten by leopards. Their faces are leopard food, and boy howdy, those leopards are gonna feast.

Bryarr Misner

Man this person has like zero presence online outside this story. Has to be purely online.

But don’t call these people stupid. That would be racist.

People I’ve interacted with on Lemmy 👆

Edit:

- In their head, probably.
- Right here dumbass.

🤡🐆🐆🐆

LOL, their opinion doesn't matter, you don't have to report on it.

This should teach a lesson to every single issue voter out there, unfortunately they are not easily tought.

If the democrats drop gun control they would get more votes. Will they, or are they obsessed with a single issue?

Has he tried fucking off and dying?

We're going to be seeing a lot more of these posts as the next year progresses. Unless we can miraculously have another higher ramp mangione clone perform his magic

I mean, if we can convince the school shooters to stop killing school children and aim later in a quite literal sense....

Do youean the leader of abandon & punish palestine™, right?

Biden admin is currently fully cleansing Gaza and starting on the West Bank. There is little Trump can do worse.

Just wait until Trump disbands NATO and Russia starts turning the rest of the Baltics into Ukraine. Then bets are off as to whether you are even smart enough to realize.. oh, never mind.
You sweet summer child. I envy your optimism.
- I would say likewise, but that would be rude to Palestinians.
You lack imagination.

It's weird people are blaming the ones who didn't vote...

Obviously, if they voted trump, blame them away.

But it's like people don't realize how big of an ask it was to have people to vote for a genocide, especially when it's against the country someone came from and their family is still there.

If Kamala would have won, trying to criticize her would have worked as well as criticizing Biden on Israel the last four years. Any criticism would be met with "Trump would be worse".

With trump in charge, people will (rightfully) call out American support of a genocide as wrong. So while trump will undoubtedly make shit worse. Him being president means the Dem party will criticize him, and be more left in 2028.

If Kamala had won, she and the party would have moved more to the right in 2028. Just look at what happened after 4 years as VP. The few parts of her 2020 platform people liked, she moved to the right on.

The genocide of Palestinians didn't start two years ago, it's been going on for 70 years. It makes sense they're thinking long term rather than only focuses on the "now" and voting for a lesser evil that maintains the status quo that is a genocide.

If you want someone to blame, it seems like the blame should be on the "left" candidate that ignored everyone actually on the left and became bff's with Liz Cheney. Not the people that understand when a Republican wins, we get a primary which even when the party pick wins, the primary pulls them left. Even if it's just lies to win the primary, as long as they keep the lies up, it helps in the general because voters want Dems to move left.

Without a primary, the chosen candidate takes the left for granted and moved right. In this case if Kamala won, we wouldn't have another option in 2028 either, it would be 2032 before the next real primary.

Like...

I just don't see how someone could blame anyone except the candidate, her campaign team, and the DNC.

They're the ones that prevented a real primary, and that made the campaign platform that alienated lifelong Dem voters in hopes of gaining republican voters who wouldn't be caught dead voting for a Dem.

It obviously failed, and the media is desperate to blame anything other than the stuff their billionaire owners bribed the Dems to support.

They'll never ever say the problem was a Dem is too "fiscally conservative" because they're the ones paying neoli eral candidates to pretend that's a good move for the average American

Fun fact: if you're not actively against neofascists, you are with them, and everything you say to justify sitting at their table should and will be considered insincere vaporing. It really blows that other people are going to suffer when you get what's coming to you. I feel bad for them. I better not hear so much as a sigh out of you, since you're getting what you wanted, what you knew would happen, and what you chose.
- Hear Hear! Thank you for taking the time to voice the opinion of many. We should never relent and keep shining a light on these idiots and their moronic reasoning. They chose to not vote, vote jill stein or vote trump (all the same thing) and then want to reason about it? Justify it? They chose, they chose clearly and they knew what they did. Never let these fascist wannabees off the hook.
- False dilemma
- All of this turns to dust when you understand that the democrats and republicans are two arms of the same neofascist party.
Did we all just collectively forget that the DNC was panicking about rushing the vote for Kamala as fast as possible to avoid lawsuits from Republican states that could have kept her off the ballot?? If that happened then Trump would just have won by default.
We're in this fantasy world that we could have had a primary. It's stubborn old fucking Bidens fault that we were in this position. There was no time to have a primary even if I really really really wish there was. Biden decided that even though he doesn't know where he is 90% of the time he was The Best Person™ to run against Trump because pretty much every human being that obtains some sort of power for any meaningful amount of time becomes a narcissistic asshole.
This is 100% on the old fuck Biden for not accepting that death comes for us all and decline is a real thing. He just plugged his ears and went "lalalalalalala I can't hear you!" until someone told him he just finished a debate and it went horribly.
- Biden was incapable of leading from the moment he was elected and the party could have forced him out much sooner if they were committed to having competent leadership through the next election cycle.
  Edit: also, if they had forced him out, perhaps by invoking the 25th amendment during his term, I have zero doubt they would have proceeded with Kamala as if she was the incumbent and foregone a primary anyways.
  They will pull myriad post-hoc excuses out of their ass, as they did to get Biden elected in the first place and is their specialty as a party, but those are the facts. The rest is just noise.
- Did we all just collectively forget that the DNC was panicking about rushing the vote for Kamala as fast as possible to avoid lawsuits from Republican states that could have kept her off the ballot?? If that happened then Trump would just have won by default.
  What?
  As far as I know all those states would have just listed "Democratic Party"...
  Like, that's how the electoral college works. The party with the most votes gets to appoint electors and then they cast the vote for a person.
  The name being on the ballot or just the party doesn't matter. The DNC lied that it would matter to stop people from fighting Kamala's anointment.
  Same as they lied about "keys to the war cheat" that was the victory fund that the candidate and the DNC have control over, both have unrestricted access to the funds and there's basically no accountability with it.
  We’re in this fantasy world that we could have had a primary.
  I stopped reading here.
  We can't really continue until you recognize the above. Then we can build off that if you still have questions.
Biden started this election -400 electoral votes in his own polling. Kamala Harris was the least popular, most divisive candidate in the primary (even as gamed as the 2020 primary was) and left at the bottom of the race.
You are right. You even see the echo chamber narrative that Biden could have still beaten Trump on bluesky being the preferred narrative.
DNC has almost fully pulled a "It's the children who are wrong" and I'm not convinced they will ever have a fair, open primary again. This was a historic self-own that saw Trump picking up support in nearly all categories.
DNC has been playing Russian roulette with their primaries and voting base for years, honestly the gun has fired a couple times...
- 2/2/25 they vote for chair...
  There's a very good chance we get a competent chair who cares about winning. Ben Winkler is my favorite but expect for that crazy lady (Marianne Wilkinson?) who has no chance, any of the candidates so far would be a drastic improvement.
  What really hurt us was Biden picked the last chair, and like most of his picks it was absolutely horrible.
  So until we hear the results of the chair election, I'm trying to be an optimist.
- Gonna be honest, i think Biden could have beaten Trump. I don't blame him for stepping down (though if he had done so sooner i think it would have been better) but i think he had at least as much chance as Harris, maybe more. That's purely strategic, though. I think the calls for him to step down were coming from a position of weakness and fear and were interpreted as such by the electorate.
  He could have easily won if he did something about Gaza other than "support genocide" but here we are, at the (current) end of a long string of such decisions.
  We see with the UHC shooting how much anger there is for the inequities in this country, it would be easy to tap into that.
I don't think people are really thinking long term, i don't think there's any strategy like that at play. (This is kind of accelerationist anyway, even if it were.) However, i think people who blame the voters for refusing to vote for an obviously poisonous candidate are completely delusional.
People do not have a duty to vote for the Democratic Party's chosen candidate, no matter who it is. Not moral and not otherwise. The candidate has a duty to appeal to the voters. The party has a duty to put forward candidates that can get elected. If they refuse to do that and the voters refuse to vote for them, that's not on the voters.
- (This is kind of accelerationist anyway, even if it were.)
  It 100% is, and to be clear I don't think it was the best path, which is why I held my nose like I have for a very long time and voted D.
  But it's the path we're on now.
  When a Dem wins, they appoint the DNC chair and a symbolic vote confirms it.
  When the Dem loses, the chair usually resigns and the DNC has a chance to change direction.
  If Kamala had won 2024, the party would stay the same. If she then won 2028 as an incumbent with no primary, shed get to pick chair again. Then in 2032 they would influence the primary to get a similar candidate. It's a feedback loop that only has a chance to break when a Republican takes office.
  Literally, the only way the DNC has a chance to change direction is when the Republicans win. You gotta look at the silver lining, DNC leadership change was accelerated. Which hopefully will be a good thing long term because DNC leadership for decades has been absolute dog shit.
  Or they double down and we're probably fucked. But don't give up. There's still the potential of a fair primary in 2028 regardless.
  Like Heinlein said long ago:
  Certainly the game is rigged, but if you never play you'll never win
What did you think would happen when you abstained from voting?
Edit:(i see in another comment that you voted. So my question I guess is to anyone that abstained.)
- What did the neolibs think would happen when they ran a campaign designed to appeal to the far right at the expense of the base?
- You're unlikely to get an answer.
  Most people who abstained are checked out of politics. They're not spending free time on social media talking about politics.
  To get them to re-engage is going to take some work.
  Which makes it harder to discuss what we need to change to get them back, especially when people reflexively down vote that discussion
This is a volcanic take on Lemmy.
- It is barely warm enough to soften butter, wtf do you mean
- It's true tho...
  Without a primary the Dems consistently move as far right as they can. Sometimes they overshoot and it lets a Republican in.
  But no one wanted Kamala as president in 2020, and she moved further right for 2024 and got even less popular.
  The next four years will suck. But at least we might have a say in the 2028 candidate.
  Kamala would have been almost a decade of "same as Biden" but she was likely to keep moving to the right.
  Like, I voted for Kamala. But I knew it wasn't going to matter because she had zero chance in my state. For it to go blue we need an 08 Obama type.
  But I still held my nose.
  I just don't understand why people want to blame those who couldn't hold their nose, instead of criticizing the unelected political machine who said Kamala was our only option despite being wildly unpopular.
  People in the party and Biden's admin knew how bad he was, and how his age was effecting him. It's not an opinion anymore, even Chris Clizza admitted it after CNN fired him.
  But the DNC still tried to shove him down America's throats till the last second, then replaced him with Kamala.
  If anyone deserves blame for trump, it's those people. The ones who wasted 1.5 billon dollars on a campaign and couldn't beat the hands down worst president America has ever had.