Michelle Obama says she’s terrified about potential outcome of 2024 election

Me too and I'm not even American, dissolution of NATO, serving Ukaine on a platter to Russia, possibility of more war in Europe with Putin getting bolder.

No pressure Americans but your elections are kind of important for the future of the world.

There was a rider attached to one of the latest appropriations bills (which is now law) that restricts how future Presidents can pull the US out of NATO. It can't happen now unless Congress passes an act authorizing the President to do so, or with a 2/3 vote of the Senate (the same mechanism as ratifying a treaty).
So at least on this issue, we've put in some safeguards in case we elect an idiot again.
- Because rules and laws stopped him before
Yeah but a bunch of white college kids who don't even know what Mer7aba means have decided that the way to serve the Palestinian cause is to let the guy who handed Jerusalem and the Golan Heights to Netenyahu back into office to teach the establishment a lesson so we're fucked.
I'm starting to think they're actually just right wingers who know that saying what they ACTUALLY want will get them dumped by all their cool allies club friends. Probably why they keep insisting on dumb fuck takes like "bErNiE wOuLd Be A cEnTrIsT iN pOlAnD!" and "AmErIcA hAs No LeFt!!!!!"
- yeah, shame on them for opposing an active genocide.
- m starting to think they’re actually just right wingers who know that saying what they ACTUALLY want will get them dumped by all their cool allies club friends.
  So you all lost the 2016 general election all on your own then?
  The absurdity of your perspective is that you believe there is a large group of voters who didn't show up for HRC while also apparently believing not one of them is sharing their reasons why in anonymous forums.
If America pulls out of NATO, I wonder if NATO would disband and if the EU militarizes.
- You made me wonder if Trump would pull out of NATO and ask a few NATO members to move to Russia-US alliance instead.
You're spending too much time on Reddit and Lemmy. Republicans will always support Ukraine (they hate Russia too!). The issue isn't about support, it's about limits. We have to have checks and balances when financing a war, this isn't a free for all. The Republicans are just making sure the money is being spent how it's supposed too. All of a sudden, they're called "traitors" and "ass-kissers." Which is just ridiculous. How soon we forget Ukraine was once considered one of the most corrupt countries on Earth.
- That's not what Trump's actions suggested the last time in office, I have no doubt republicans hate Russia, maybe even more than Democrats, it's Trump specifically I'm worried about.
I'll be voting, and getting as many people as I know to vote. If there was ever a time to vote, it's this one (at least since the civil war era).
US meddling on the rest of the world only goes well if its white europeans. I'm not thrilled about the US being "strong".
- Of course, cuz black Europeans are immune to bombs and bullets
Imagine the worst outcome you can think of on the issue that's most important to you, and that's probably likely no matter who we elect. Both parties rule as conservatives, and conservatism in recent memory has meant a slow-burn of lost liberty.
Don't worry though. No matter who we elect they'll still run us further into debt in order to fund the wars in Gaza and Ukraine, because it's making our legislators and their backers obscenely wealthy. War is one of the shitty things for which there's always bipartisanship.
- You’re part of the problem.
  There is no ‘both sides are bad take’ here.
  There’s Biden who at worse maintains the status quo and then there is Trump who will become a literal dictator.
  No I’m not exaggerating. You fucking centrist morons can’t see you’ll be on a train for the gas chambers if he is elected again and will be shocked when it happens.

I’m fucking convinced you guys are going to vote that chud in again. Or let him be voted in again. There is nuance but it’s the same outcome.

The people who want to spite Biden's genocidal support by not voting for him don't realize that the alternative is a fascist dictator who actively relishes in the prospect of killing brown people. If you think Biden's treatment of the Gazan war is bad, wait til you see Trump.
Same with the Ukrainian war. If Biden is milquetoast, Trump will guarantee your toast is forever black and inedible.
- It's because those people that think that don't actually care about brown people. Nobody who actually cares about Palestine is trying to vote Trump in. Not a single one. It's all a smoke screen. We've seen it before same thing happened in 2016. Same players same game.
- Why don't democrats just play it safe and run just about anyone who isn't Biden?
  The vast majority of conservatives will never vote for a democrat. The best democrats can do is try to retain support of independents who have no problem voting 3rd party or even conservative if they feel disenfranchised by the democratic party.
- People like you want to have your cake and eat it too. During the primaries you swear up and down we should be okay with Biden winning the primaries because we can push him to the left. Then when that turns out not to be true you say we need to vote for him anyway.
  You can't keep doing this. You're liars. You're gaslighters. You're enablers of the Republican party. You are the bad guys. You need to change.
- By the time the election comes we might already be in WW3 😒
I hate all these articles, it's like people want that asshole again.
"Man, wouldn't it be CRAZY if this criminal won in 2024? He might ACTUALLY do it! It could happen! The courts might let it!"
Like bro, stop. Stop jinxing us. You are going to will it to happen. Stop giving him airtime. Don't give him mindshare. Treat him like any other criminal and then drop interest. Focus on corruption or feeding the poor, anything else.
Blame everyone who thinks the democrats should run Biden again.
- No. How about you tell us why not voting for Biden (effectively a vote for Trump) is the way to go.

I'm not American but what's happening in the US and what will happen when/if Trump gets re-elected definitely worries me. It's difficult not to sound overly dramatic or hyperbolic about the situation but it really does feel like the US is uncomfortably close right now to a christofascist state. And if you just rolled your eyes at that word, take a look at who's currently second in line to the US presidency.

If Trump does win, I really fear for American democracy. Do you really think a man who encouraged an armed insurrection to support a subversion of an election will pause to think twice about removing the few rights large sections of America currently have? And if the process prevents him, do you think he'd think twice about dismantling the process? At gun point if necessary?

Hi, American here.
American domestic politics is absolutely fucked right now.
The Republican Party does not really even have any policy proposals for serious issues at the Federal level.
They spent years saying 'Obamacare bad', saying they could do healthcare better. Basically it is a decade later and they have no plan, not even a proposal.
Taxes? We still have morons like DeSantis basically saying 'I dunno, maybe a flat tax?' to applause during stump speeches and debates. The flat tax proposal is absolutely insane for a large number of reasons, but the Republican base eats it up.
Look, there are something like 50 million + Americans that believe in all or most of the QAnon conspiracy theories, that believe God himself appointed Trump as President.
Trump stacked the Supreme Court.
The Republicans have functionally made abortion illegal in about half the country.
Meanwhile the economy is /apparently/ recovering, though the prices of basically everything you need to routinely pay for have risen fairly dramatically while wages have remained basically stagnant. Wealth inequality has spiralled to obscene levels, rent has basically doubled in about half a decade.
As I write this, I believe that polls of Biden v Trump are still showing Trump ahead.
Even if Trump does not win, and even if the MAGA QAnon types do not do a bunch of terrorism (again), they still exist, and are hopelessly living in basically an alternate reality where anything that goes against their worldview is fake, a conspiracy, of the Devil.
It was about 3 years ago now that I told my friend group that the QAnon problem was so serious that we would need some kind of analogous concept to the de-Nazification program as was implemented after WW2 in West Germany to deal with it. They either laughed at or ignored me. None of those people are my friends any more.
We are fucked.
The only thing that motivates most Republican voters is hatred. Any politician who says Trans people bad, Critical Race Theory bad, Immigrants bad, Homeless People bad, anything like that receives applause from the audience.
And I write this /as a homeless person/ who will almost certainly not be able to vote in the upcoming election. I will be /lucky/ if I can even find and qualify for an actual apartment after basically a bunch of crimes that happened to me in the course of last year caused me serious physical injury and the loss of all of my possessions, ruined my credit score, placed my in incredible debt, lost me my job and my ability to do any other job until my physical injuries are healed, which I simply have to handle myself, while homeless, because the cost of engaging with American healthcare system to handle my problems now would be sufficient to outright purchase a modest home (outright) less than a decade ago.
Meanwhile, Trump has outright stated he would like to implement basically concentration camps for the homeless. He has stated he wants to eliminate the vermin leftists. He is very concerned with the purity of the blood of the nation, and has outright stated he will be a dictator.
And he is currently leading in the polls.
Again, this country is fucked. So, sorry Europeans, I would love to be able to assuage your fears, and become an activist or something.
Maybe send me some of your healthcare and I'll get right on it.
Or maybe I am extremely tired, have no hope for this broken country, and could use the services of someone who can smuggle me into Canada or something.
- If you are homeless, reach out to a shelter to see if they would be okay with you declaring them as your residence for the purpose of mail/voter registration. You can obtain ID from the state and have it sent there, and then that enables you to register to vote. Or if you have a bit of cash, you can also register a PO box through USPS for your mail.
  It may be too late for you to vote in the primary depending on where you live, but you've still got plenty of time for the general election in November.
  I can only encourage you to keep trying, because disenfranchising the socially vulnerable means that the Republican strategy is working.
- I wish I could, I really do.
- Also American here. Vexikron is 100% correct. I will take my payment in Wegovy please.
Even if Trump dies tomorrow, the problem still exists. Trump is the worm in the apple, but half the apple is rotten.
- That is true, no disagreement here. That's the truly scary thing about the man - he clearly does represent a lot of people.
  But right now, he is the immediate danger.
- I’m not sure anymore. He got so elevated by some people but they hate so much. Idk if anyone could just slide into his place. I think they could be lost enough with the infighting that would try to fill in that hole. As in, that confusion could give us the gap to secure our processes and/or elect reasonable people.
I live in Japan and I'm sure Kim literally considered nuking my country during that dick measurement contest Trump held.
- I was in China and the time and there were a scary number of people who were saying they hoped that would happen. East Asia is still so contentious, last thing we need is Emperor Cheeto making it even worse.
It’s difficult not to sound overly dramatic or hyperbolic about the situation but it really does feel like the US is uncomfortably close right now to a christofascist state.
To add to this: while it may sound hyperbolic to some folks, for plenty of us we've seen this brewing for decades. White evangelicals and right-wing politics unified in the 1980s in a way that was a clear danger to democracy, and they've only solidified their power since, given how mainstream their views are now.
IMHO Frank Zappa said it best in 1986: he got called out as being hyperbolic, but he clearly saw the writing on the wall. He's of course not the most scholarly source, but damn it Jim I'm a biologist, not a historian. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlePLLlfH4Q
Another American here, currently stuck living in the great state of Ohio. I keep a bag under my bed with a change of clothes, a few cans of food, a wad of cash, a pistol, and a passport. I may be fucked, but I've got some friends in Quebec that might be able to save my ass.

I feel like this is so understated in this context it is almost physically painful:

Who we select, who speaks for us, who holds that bully pulpit, it affects us in ways sometimes I think people take for granted

Stop talking about trump like he's just another bad candidate. Jesus Christ.

If they acknowledge the depth of his depravity then they go too far in tarnishing the office. They desperately want to maintain prestige so they'll never go as far as they ought to.
- If you talk about it in the way that you should, you will sound alarmist.

As much as I share the same concern with Michelle, I would selfishly respond to her that if she just fucking ran for president she would win in a landslide and put an end to fucking Trump. Barack can spend the entire 4 years ridiculing the orange bezoar as first man.

No she would not win. I guess you just don't realize how many Democrats are just as racist as Republicans. There is still to much racism amd sexism in our country.
And if you point to Obama I point to how many Democrats I know said Obama wasn't to bad because he was at least half white and raised by whites.
Sick as that is its the truth and something we are long way from changing.
Plus she isn't as popular as you think neither is Obama. I loath his neoliberal ass and is partly to blame for where we are now. Because he bailed out the banks instead of the people and turned a lot of blue couler workers into maga fanatics that Trump used to turn our country into a hell hole.
Apologies for my ignorance, but just why hasn't she run for office?
- https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/politics-news/michelle-obama-reveals-why-she-wont-be-running-president-1100511/
Michelle would not win in a landslide.
Every election that is just an extension of the Clinton lineage is a bad play for democrats.

Unfortunately to Trump supporters this is a grandiose endorsement and exactly what they want.

The true trump idiots fucking love it. They are salivating for it. She's black, a woman, and liberal which is the exact opposite of the people they care about. It represents everything they hate

I'd be concerned whatever the outcome.

You reckon Jan 6th was a one off?

yes, if the next leader doesn't sell conspiracy as hard as maga.

If the democrats ran just about anybody but Joe, they'd be a shoe-in.

Brace yourselves for Trump 2.0, everyone. The Clinton lineage must go on!

It’s never going to be that easy. I’m sure each of us can find a candidate we like better but a successful run is more than that:
fund raising - to some extent whoever raises the most money wins, and I’m pretty sure President Biden has
name recognition - is everyone familiar with your favorite candidate? You really can’t beat the familiarity of someone who is already President
middle of the road enough to attract many different voters, especially those independents sitting in the middle
has beaten Trump before
While I think the President is doing a great job, I’d prefer someone more progressive. However that might alienate more voters than it would attract. I will not risk another trumptastrophe by insisting on more Progressiveness over electable, “progressive enough” and not insane
The age thing does bother me, but I can only dream of doing that well at that age.
We should focus on VP. We want someone in the wings and we want them to build name recognition, and that hasn’t worked for the current VP
- So after this, if trump loses and runs again, you'll be ok with continuing to support candidates you don't fully align with just to stop the boogie man? What about once trump is gone and the Republicans have some new piece of shit boogieman in the running? What will it take for you to be comfortable voting with the people that you most closely align with?
He was popular enough to beat Trump the 1st go round, why would people not vote for him now when the alternative is 4 more years of god knows what fresh hell?
- Because Trump's approval numbers are higher than Biden's.
  To be clear, I don't support Trump at all but we have to look at cold hard facts. Biden does not look like a great candidate right now at a macro scale. Democrats have a real problem of loving to self-hate, and they end up skewering their own candidate. The prevailing opinion amongst my friends is "well Biden didn't do anything". Personally I find that to be untrue, but that's the narrative.
  The real key is that Democrats lose when voter turnout falls. Biden is not an exciting candidate, and for some people it is an ordeal to vote, and they may not do it for Biden. A lot of people forget this... It's not that Trump would get more votes, it's that Biden will get less.
  Democrats are formulating a perfect way to fumble this to Trump, and I'm terrified.
- 3 years of propaganda, most of their base complaints against Biden arent true, but perception is reality.
  Trump is hard lining who he's going to hurt. They love that
  The Dems will still vote dem other than hating Bidens Gaza stance, because they see Trump as awful.
  But gerrymandering and shenanigans being what they are, the fight isn't fair and the GOPs thumb is heavily on the scale.
Anyone who votes like that really doesn’t understand the difference between the two at all.
Like who?
So Biden is a Clinton now? Is everything you don't like a Clinton?

Can she run for VP and we just swap her out instead of Kamala Harris? Hell, they could go back to reusing old Obama/Biden signs from the 2008/2012 campaigns. Otherwise Harris is just deadweight for this campaign, she's been absolutely useless the past 4 years (though that's probably been the traditional role of VPs anyways).

I'm terrified of the outcome no matter who wins... Our system is seriously broken if these are the best candidates we, the supposed bastion of freedom and democracy, can come up with.

The Dems need a candidate who will annihilate Trump.

We all are. There is no good outcome, only one that is less bad than the other.

Michelle said a thing

Oh brother...her and her elite inner circle will be fine. When I say BOTH sides are guilty of using scare tactics to get votes, this is what I'm talking about. Democrats and the Left want to scare people into thinking the world will end if a Republican becomes President. They all said the same thing when Trump became President in 2017.

"Both sides" is a tired old argument that doesn't hold water. If you haven't seen the damage Republicans have done in the past 8 years on the Federal and State level, you need to look harder, my dude. The Democrats aren't amazing, but they aren't actively stripping people's rights away and trying to erase minority groups from existence. There is no Democratic "Plan 2025".
- It's a balance. I don't agree with everything that the Republicans do, just like I don't agree with everything the Democrats do. However, both parties are flawed and both parties are doing things in the interests of different groups.

It seems like most Americans are gonna vote for trump and he might win. Democrat voters have to blame their side if trump wins. They've run such a dog shit pr campaign. Biden has done good on the policy front but you'd never know because the media doesn't cover it and the right-wing media only covers his mistakes.

Most Americans didn't vote for Trump in the previous two elections.
- It seems like most Americans are gonna vote for trump and he might win.
  The problem is the electoral college. We have dipshits, but not enough of them will vote for Trump for him to win the popular vote.
  Democrat voters have to blame their side if trump wins. They’ve run such a dog shit pr campaign.
  This is true every time. Not disagreeing with you. When Dems win nationally it's usually in spite of all the ways they tried to fuck it up.
- Yeah it wasn’t even close in the end. They even lost fucking Arizona and Georgia I never thought I’d see the day…
I don’t understand why you think that. The last election wasn’t even close and Trump had the post office in shambles.

"government do everything for us, and we cannot take this democracy for granted." Government is not the same as democracy... Democracy is what D's and R's try to sufficate so the government can continue to be run by private companies. There is a word for this...

In terrified that these people support Genocide.

Which people?
- Better question, which not?
Fuck off with that shit. Every single US president, including Trump and Obama, has been vocal in their support for Israel.
- Yeah that's a great fact so maybe stop voting for those guys

"Well, well, of it isn't the consequences of my actions."

Im gonna be real with y'all. Fascism in the US is already here and it's only getting worse. Whether you vote Democrat or Republican you are voting to maintain a system that actively harms and kills millions. These days voting Democrat only means minorities in the US get a little more rights if they're nice while everything else stays the same or gets worse and honestly I can't tell if it was ever any better. It makes me genuinely sick that I have choose between two of the worst people I've ever had the displeasure of observing and any consideration of an alternative is met with active hostility or dismissal. I cannot fathom how people can accept being forced to choose between two genuine evils

My vote will accomplish nothing because there is no one to represent me

This sounds an awful lot like a the old ‘both sides’ boogaloo.
Fuck that.
America under the democrats is a vile bully that pokes its nose in where it doesn’t belong and causes a great deal of suffering across the planet.
I grant you that, but America under MAGA unleashes the true evil in the hearts of men. The malady caused by four years under Trump lingers on in so many aspects of life.
Comparing the two is a massive mistake.
- I'll give you that republicans are genuinely worse yes. I do not doubt it. However, there is not a single Democrat president in my lifetime I would not also deem to be a war criminal
- Eh, the problem is that people think they're making progress with establishment democrats in office.
  The lesser-evil is still evil. A slow loss is still a loss.
I cannot fathom how people can accept being forced to choose between two genuine evils
The word forced is right there in your sentence, what's hard to fathom? A third party vote is effectively a vote for Trump. I'm not going to argue with you if you still feel morally compelled to vote third party - but let's not pretend otherwise.
I understand that. Neither option is 'good'. But one of the options will (in my opinion) have a bloody good go at removing your ability to have the option at all in the future.
- So one of the options is objectively good, then. Maybe stfu and stop pretending this is a difficult choice.
In this case, people accepting being force to choose between two genuine evils is because one of the two evils plans to make it so there is no chance at change and would likely turn to slaughtering people who don't fall in line with the regime
What makes this time in America’s history so terrifying is that the difference between Democrat and Republican has only been greater one other time and it resulted in a civil war. You can’t say “both sides are evil” because it’s not even close. Democrats haven’t really changed and that’s not the progress they claim to represent. However Republicans have abandoned the concept of the US as a whole and are actively attempting to corrupt our voting and end democracy state by state. Republicans are so close to crossing a line that cannot be uncrossed and it will result, at best, in states operating as independent nations. In other words, a fucking disaster.
There is only one “evil” side right now.
- I mean, we're still caging children at the border and a genocide is happening right now and we have given the ally who is perpetuating that genocide more weapons. Both sides are evil.
You are correct of course. As has played out historically, the liberals have been utterly ineffective at combating the rise of fascism.
It was not until what, about 12 to 6 ish months ago that finally, you could actually tell a liberal that Trump and the Republicans /are fascists/ without a bunch of hoity toity himming and hawing about tone policing and catastrophizing accusations.
A sad, sad joke.
We are a historically ignorant country, still high on our own supply of American Exceptionalism, unable to grasp that It Can In Fact Happen Here.
We ruled by geriatric politicians who have not been able to connect with the actual politics or material concerns of anyone under the age of 40 in a way that would effectively improve their lives. The mechanics of our political system are ossified and incapable of being changed to even /allow/ for changing into a system that would allow for more effective representation of the many, many poor. We will never have ranked choice voting on a large scale, nor reform to the electoral college, nothing like that. Not that those things would even work in a society where over 50% of possible voters have the literacy level of 7th graders.
We are ruled by corporate overlords who do not give a functional damn about any social justice issues and only feign it as a brand and marketing strategy to lull those who might otherwise actually do something useful to address those issues in society into inaction, as they can pay for the conspicuous consumption of media and more animal friendly foods or eco friendly cars or whatever to allow them to /feel/ like they are helping to solve the problem, when in reality they are just continuing to fund it.
I hope I am wrong and some actual good change will happen. But I do not think it likely at this point.
Well you only think Biden is one of the worst people ever because you got tricked. He's actually not that bad.
- Biden is a career politician who has backed a lot of shitty decisions in his time. He's cutting blank checks to Israel while they are commiting a genocide.
  Despite all this, he is unequivocally better than trump right now. It's not even close. That's how fucked up it is. I would abstain from voting if literally the fate of LGBTQ, non-Christians, Migrants and women were not hanging in the balance on this election.
in that case you have to vote to at least make sure that you get a dog instead of a wolf
- I shouldn't have to choose between evil and slightly less evil. My vote is already useless in the state I live in because it's been gerrymandered into dysfunction so it's hard to even find a reason to bother
I think voting, while important, is ineffective for fixing a political system. One man having the correct idea can't change anything by one vote.
I'm climbing my career ladder and starting to control good portion of company resources. At least, it has more potential than a single stupid vote. How to make use of that power I need to figure out, but as nobody knows the solution, the only route is to think while trying.

We ShOuLd LiStEn To hEr GuYs, ShE iS a MaN aFtEr aLL

You're being downvoted, not because you did a bad job mocking morons on the right, but because it was unnecessary and doesn't add anything to the discourse.

Oh, finally Big Mike chimes in!

Your sexism and misogyny is showing.
- Lol, Americans....

Michelle, if you're reading this, relax. You have enough money to easily move to any country on the planet. You'll be fine.

Have you considered she may be empathetic to those who don't have the money to easily move to any country on the planet? It's a good thing to be concerned for the welfare of others IMHO.
- I'm sure she's concerned about people until it fucks with her money.
  Like most establishment democrats and their supporters.
- Yes, I did and I think she absolutely can be "concerned" or "worried". I just doubt she's "terrified". If she's that empathetic to those in need what is she actually doing to help them? Her wikipage says that "In 2021, the former first lady announced that she has been "moving toward retirement".[90] Though she continues to be active in political campaigns, the former first lady has said she is reducing the amount of work to spend more time with her husband." It doesn't mention any actual work she did since 2007. I don't know them but for me she and Obama just look like another rich couple enjoying their lives and not engaging at all with common people. But now she's terrified for them? I don't buy it. Just my opinion though.
I don't think the paycheque is of any concern to her. She's written how many multi-million selling books?