People are getting fed up with all the useless tech in their cars — For the first time in 28 years of JD Power’s car owner survey, there is a consecutive year-over-year decline in satisfaction, wit...

Some proposed design principles:

It's a car.
It's not a goddamn TV.
It's not your goddamn ads platform or subscription service.
It is, however, a piece of life-safety-critical equipment.
Because it's a car, the driver wants to deal with car stuff like driving, navigating, fuel, roads, obstacles, and not killing people.
They also want to make it passably comfortable by messing with the heat or AC, the fans, the windows, and the fucking moon roof.
Messing with your phone while driving is Actually Illegal these days in civilized parts of the planet. This is for good reason: people get killed that way.
If the car requires messing with your phone, or messing with something that is basically your phone, then you have failed.
There should be a big knob with a fan icon on it. Turning this knob all the way to the left causes the fan to turn off all the way. Turning the knob all the way to the right causes the fan to turn on all the way.
If I ever have to use a touchscreen to control the side mirrors, I will become an extremely unhappy ape.

I would pay more to get a car with more buttons than you can comprehend and a small little infotainment system that allows you to play music than a super futuristic car with a iPad in the center and nothing else in the center console area.
- physical buttons for the important stuff; stuff like setting interior RBG lighting color and intensity? that can go on soft buttons.
- Mazda. They’ve brought back physical buttons and have support for CarPlay if you want it.
- Get a 2004-2009 car, yank the stereo out and throw an aftermarket headunit with android/carplay in. Best of both worlds!
No. 9 but for media volume, touch controls are garbage and gestures are even more garbage.
Looking at you, VAG.
- A special place in hell is reserved for whoever the hell keeps putting capacitive buttons on cars, ESPECIALLY when they put them on the steering wheel!
- Oh yeah those shitty VAG touch controls. Went to a customer with my employee in summer. When returning home we opened the sunroof to cool the car down quickly. Couldn’t close that mf for 10kms on the autobahn until everything cooled down. Absolutely horrible.
- ...who tf...which car maker has gestures? If you're gonna gesture how about you gesture your damn hand over to the button?
- No. 9 but for media volume
  Thankfully, all cars I've driven that had a touch screen also had some media buttons on the steering wheel. I'd prefer to have good old physical buttons in the center console, but at least you didn't have to use the touch screen.
Dont worry.
They will make it all voice controlled in the future!
- "Alexa, take me Starbucks and play latest episode of "Ow, My Balls".
Why 10? It's not like you do that while driving.
Thing is every knob saved saves time and money during manufacturing. So the companies want to put as much as they can on the touch screen. I don't mind if they do that with things I do before driving, I mind a lot if it's something I have to do during the drive.
- Yeah they do it to save money, and then charge you out the ass for "oOh LoOk ItS tHe FuTuRe"
Fuck cars
- Your kink is not my kink, but your kink is okay.
- Agree… but I live in America… so there’s basically no reasonable alternative
Why 10? It's not like you do that while driving.
Thing is every knob saved saves time and money during manufacturing. So the companies want to put as much as they can on the touch screen. I don't mind if they do that with things I do before driving, I mind a lot if it's something I have to do during the drive.

I have been saying this for years. The last thing your car should do is take your eyes off the road. This is a 1-3 ton box of metal hurdling at 60+ miles down the highway next to a bunch of other metal boxes that can all kill each other.

And car manufacturers seem to be in love with the idea of you forgetting you’re even driving. Add on all the bs lane assisting, warning bells, alerts, automatic correction, and the driver is convinced that the car will protect them.

These are all systems built on software. Last time I checked, that shit has never been reliable. If the software fails, the manufacturer can just hide behind “They weren’t paying attention!”

Mfer, YOU TRAINED THEM TO IGNORE IT. I don’t know what I’m going to do when all the cars from before touchscreens and digital gauges are no longer running or affordable because I hate the idea of having to look at a screen to change volume or turn on the AC.

Modern cars can suck a fuck.

Mfer, YOU TRAINED THEM TO IGNORE IT
Remember when a self-driving car killed someone walking their bike in Arizona, while the car's "handler" was watching a movie on their tablet?
Yeah, the employee should have been paying attention, but it's not realistic to expect someone to stay alert for an 8-hour shift where the task is as monotonous as watching a car drive itself. That's why commercial transport drivers have mandated breaks and why two pilots are in charge of an airplane at a time.
To be clear, I am in favour of self-driving cars and don't think they need to be perfect, just better than the average human, but the companies training them need to have standards that are both realistic and safe.
- but it’s not realistic to expect someone to stay alert for an 8-hour shift where the task is as monotonous as watching a car drive itself.
  It wasn't an 8 hour shift and watching the car was the actual job, come on! The driver was the tester. They were testing a system which wasn't yet ready to go untested. The accident is entirely the fault of the driver in that case.
  And it's not like their reflexes were slower because of boredom. No. They were not paying any attention at all. They were watching a video. That is gross negligence and not the fault of the car or of the manufacturer.
- I mean, these things are going to happen. But that person was attempting to cross 5 lines of traffic after crossing 2 just before. It's a terrible idea to try that. Here is a picture: https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/2018/03/20/self-driving-uber-death/7ed17129da41763ed1c6f0bf194fa32d10bda7dc/accident-diagram-1050.png
  The driver also ignored safety instructions. You can only plan for so much. Let's say you put two drivers in the car. They could both be watching the movie and not paying attention. I have no sympathy for the driver being "bored". I used to have a long boring commute. I listened to audio books and podcasts. I did not fiddle with my phone or watch movies. If you pilot a veihicle with autonomous driving or not pay attention. Most people can handle that just driving themselves around. This person had it as a job. No excuse.
I'd argue that the safety assistance tech is very, very good and should continue.
Fucking touch screens for HVAC and audio controls are a menace though. How do regulatory agencies allow this?
Then there's the fucking warning message not to look at your screen that starts every time I turn it on. 90% of the time I am not looking at the screen, so I don't realize I have to click through their warning message until I'm already driving. All they achieved is distracting me and making me look away from the road.
- I was in a wreck three weeks ago that may have been avoided if I had not needed to look back and check my blindspot. I made damn sure that my new car had blindspot monitoring. 360° cameras is a bit much but just that little bit of tech can make a big difference.
- I’d argue that the safety assistance tech is very, very good and should continue.
  Not in our Mazda. Frequent false alarms (and in that time, not a single "real" alarm triggered), a nails-on-a-chalkboard sound that irritates me every time I hear it, and the lane "assist" feature likes to steer me back toward obstacles I was trying to avoid, like cyclists, animals, large potholes, oversized loads...
  I would like to see the statistics that demonstrate that that technology is reducing crashes and/or reducing the severity of crashes. Because I know ours has trained me to ignore that alarm. I haven't asked many people, but a few people I know have turned the alarms off.
- I don't understand why some cars have these warnings and not others? I drive a Tesla Model S 2014. I never get any annoying warnings or distractions that pop up. My dad drives a Audi Q4 Sportback. It has an annoying popup every time you start the car and will also randomly notify you about stuff that you do not really care about while driving? My mothers old Subaru also has a popup every time you start the car that you have to press okay on just to use the fucking radio. So you can't get in and go you have to wait for it to display it's shitty little warning. Then press go, then start driving. And this is on old diesel. So it's not like this is new.
  I understand not everyone wants a touchscreen / large display in their car but coming from a Kia Sportage 2012, I am very happy in the Tesla, even if it ment losing some buttons. Most things are controlled with the buttons on the steering wheel.
- I find it stupid as hell that there are conditionary alerts and changed UI when in "car" mode on phone apps, as well as Bluetooth pairing being disabled while driving.
  I get it, they want you to not use the apps while driving. But you know what's even more distracting than messing with a device while driving? Trying to troubleshoot unexpected UXs while driving
  Not to mention that passengers exist. Convincing my friend to pull over and put the car in park so I can be navigator and DJ for our little road trip was certainly more distracting than just having an open and predictable UX
I was driving with Waze once, on the highway but first gear like 10km/h because trafic. A popup came and I wanted to discard it because I was nearly at my turn and didn't want to lose it so I pushed the cross. By the small time I spent doing this, I was already going sideways off my lane.
Lesson learned. Next time it happens I'd rather stay in my lane and take the next exit. But fk the people putting Ads in my car. Let me focus.
Oh, please, tell me, otacon239, how exactly does one suck a fuck?

I'm a techie at heart.

But the only thing my car needs to do is act as a Bluetooth speaker/mic for my phone, and have a wireless charging mount.

When I need to use the phone for GPS/etc it goes on the mount.

When I turn on my car it connects to my phone over Bluetooth and starts playing music. Even if it's in my pocket (shorter trips)

It works, it's fast, it's simple.

I'm not a big fan of too much tech in cars, I hate touchscreen climate controls, and I still drive a manual transmission; but using Android auto with maps and Spotify has been amazing. And the wireless mostly works most of the time.
- I have the Motorla wireless adaptor and it would be hard to go back. Works every time. Never have to take my phone out of my pocket.... only downside is it uses a moderate amount of battery, but for a 20 min commute it's a non issue.
The irony is all these fancy head units wait until you pull out of the driveway and then throw up a big on screen warning about distracted driving. That you then have to take your eyes off the road to dismiss by pressing OK.
It would be nice if there was a spot provided for a mount that didn’t require some stupid vent clip or suction cup. A standard that would allow us to use a smartphone or tablet and maybe even leave one in the car (outside chance).
- when I got my current car, it had a stupid, dumb radio with a cd deck. I installed a cheap double dim with a touch screen on it and asked if they could replace the ashtray/powersocket thing. The piece they had that fit under the cover/door had a USB hub/charging station that I could drop a stack of phones in (including one connected to carplay/android auto on the new deck.)
  that was worth the $20 to install it.
- I was just thinking of that the other day. They could probably get it to look pretty natural if they tried.
Good for you. I love getting in the car that is cool on a hot summers day because I activated the climate control from my phone 5 minutes before leaving or having a nice toasty warm car on a freezing winter day. I enjoy telling my car I want to go to an address I have not been at before and it navigates me there without having to press more than one button or inputting an address. I then enjoy a huge nice map both in the center cluster and a big display that shows a large map so I don't have to squint at my relatively small phone on a mount. I enjoy telling my car what I want to listen to and it plays that music. I enjoy not putting getting my phone out of my pants pocked and into a mount. Especially for shorter rides. I also especially enjoy not having my car in for oil changes, not having to stop for gas, the car having a full "tank" every morning and other such comforts.
The car has it's own spotify account which for me is great, because I listen to different types of music when driving compared to when I am using my phone at work or in the gym. Music services working the way they do these days it means it will suggest more great driving music when in the car and not music that is similar to what I listen to in the gym. If I want to listen to that the phone is of course connected to bluetooth and is just a input change away.
I hope you can continue enjoying your type of desired driving experience. But realize there are other perspectives. I am also a techie at home and at work ( Cloud IT-consultant, previously Systems Architecht, previously Technician ). I also do minor work such as changing headlights, filters, and 12-volt batteries myself. I know how to change oil on a car and do some simple home improvement stuff such as simple carpentry and putting in new flooring. But when I get in my car I just want it to be in the background and don't be in the way. Just get in and go. Being in a Tesla is where I am happiest for now.

When the features are actually anti-features making you pay subscription fees for things that are already part of the car, and everything is buggy as hell, of course no one wants it.

If you can't figure out how to put all the extra stuff in the console as a knob or button then it probably doesn't belong there, or isn't wanted in the first place.

The mindless march for ever-more pointless tech in cars has pushed me into getting into classic cars more and more. Hopping into a old car is such a transformative experience. My smartphone connected through Blutooth into the stereo system is the most advanced thing in the car. The windows are huge and visibility is amazing. The ride is smooth and very forgiving. I can actually feel what the road is like because there aren't 10 layers of computers and electronics between the steering wheel and the tires.

Nowadays, all these companies are doing is trying to use technology to solve a problem created by technology to begin with. I don't need a million cameras and sensors around my car, if I have good sight-lines. I don't need a sensor to remind me to look at the road, if the driving experience wasn't so goddamn boring and devoid of fun and excitement to begin with.

I simply don't need more shit in my cars.

Good strategy! I currently own 5 cars; 91, 93, 97, 09, and 11 (and the last two are a utility van and a base model hatchback with no electronics).
I had a job in college working on information security for automotive systems. I'm actually pretty good at fixing cars with electronics, but the DRM where you have to go back to the manufacturer is too far for me. If I can't fix it with what's in my garage, I'm not interested.
It's also more eco-friendly than constantly scrapping/upgrading cars.
I don’t need a million cameras and sensors around my car, if I have good sight-lines.
While I agree with your earlier point on more technology not always being good, I disagree on the point of sensors and cameras. A backup-camera and sensor can tell me about approaching cars that I'm not aware of/cannot see physically. Additionally, I'll take extra reminders of cars when switching lanes at highway speeds.
- Yeah exactly, tech should only be in the form of safety measures like proximity alerts, lane stabilizing if you drift, cameras, etc. It's when they complicate basic controls like HVAC, radio, seats, mirrors, etc that pisses me off. That's not even starting to talk about other paywalls like a subscription for heated seats or whatever; also didn't I just read that Mercedes requires a yearly subscription if you want to fully accelerate your vehicle?
- I have been unlucky enough to drive behind a person on the way home for the past 3 days who does not look when she moves to another lane. She just moves. There has been a car directly to her left, and she just fuckin slides right on over.
  These are the people I want cameras and sensors for. These people out here (America) in these giant ass cars feel so protected in them they just stop caring. If we can't get them to stop being stupid I will have to depend on technology. I don't want to depend on technology but here we are.

I use rental cars quite often. There's so much garbage in newer cars. Why is there something trying to control my steering wheel, seriously who thought that was a good idea. Also nothing is tactile responsive anymore. It's like being sold a bloat ware filled phone where you can only use garbage native apps. They made it so much more dangerous.

The Polestar by Volvo is absolutely going to convince someone to never touch an EV again. Not because of the charging, that was fine. But oh my god the interior design and the UX of their infotainment is among the worst I have ever had to tolerate. I wanted to drive the car into the ocean.
- It's still better to drive than a tesla, but I agree that the Polestar UX is crap.

The more features the more they can charge. The more features the more things there are to break. The more there is to break the more the dealers make fixing things.

I want to replace my truck with an electric one. But no one is making bare bones electric vehicles. My current truck has an AM/FM stereo and HVAC. Those are it's only features and I'm fine with that. I use a FM Bluetooth adapter in my cigarette lighter. If it dies I can replace it myself for $20. My phone does the GPS. There will never be an electric vehicle that basic. And Trucks keep getting shorter beds that are higher off the ground. I need to be able to sling drywall and plywood into the top of my bed. That gets harder and harder as the bed gets taller.

I’m driving a 2004 with a broken antenna (no radio). All I want in my next car is a good mount for my phone and Bluetooth speakers / mic.
My 2017 van is surprisingly good with CarPlay. So I could go that route.
I really don’t want to deal with any of the car manufacturers software.
- I have a 2001 VW TDi, the radio is a standard Double Din so I just replaced it with a touchscreen bluetooth receiver for around $150.
Ugh, I would kill for a small truck. I don't need a truck I have to use a ladder to climb into with a bed that's 4 feet long because the extended cab takes up the rest of the space. I love my 11 year old RAV4, but I would consider buying something new if small trucks actually existed anymore. Or, yeah, an electric car that wasn't full of useless tech. I love tech, in it's proper place, but my car is not it.
I sure do miss my old 2001 F150
There won’t be ANY car made that basic from this point on, though. Electric or not isn’t a factor.
In the US at least, backup cameras are required, so immediately you have a screen and a computer driving it. Adding in things like Bluetooth, gps, and phone interfaces are almost free at that point. It’s kind of like how power windows are just standard on everything too.

Just give me a screen for Android auto and that alone. Everything else should be knobs, especially climate controls

I don't know about that. I love the navigation system from my KIA, in my opinion it's far superior to google maps. I even can set the destination remotely via the KIA app, so I don't need to fiddle around once I'm in the car.
Moving parts cost money and wear out.
And if there's one thing the auto manufacturers are good at, it's cutting costs.
- Maybe they could remove the engine and gearbox with all their moving parts...
- Touch screens break and wear too, and it's more expensive to replace a touch screen than an AC fan knob.

I don't give a shit about the bells and whistles they're adding to cars and the infotainment systems. I am absolutely LIVID that they are starting to lock bits of hardware (or the complete functionality of that hardware) behind subscription paywalls. If i ever buy a car and discover they've locked the heated seats behind a monthly fee, i'm tearing the infotainment system out of the fucking dash and leaving it on fire in front of the dealers house.

In the future I can totally see black market auto shops that specialize in bypassing all the bullshit paywalls that restrict your car from functioning the way it should to begin with.
- Yup. I worked as a locksmith for a decade there that reproduced immobilizer keys that were 'dealer only.' My tool allow me do all sorts of wild shit that was outside my field of interest -- but resetting/setting the door panels on Fords was super nifty.

...useless tech

Oh, it is "useful"; to the real 'owners' of "your" car...

Yup. I'm in Automotive, I work for a company that makes software for basically any car brand you can think of. I just recently left an internally developed project that aimed to create a personal assistant in the car. It was terribly ran and will go nowhere, but other departments in other companies will probably have more success, especially since the rise of chatgpt.
To add to your point though - the main idea on how to sell this assistant to car makers was the features, but the driving force behind developing the project was customer data. Collect a huge amount of info from customers, info that is shared with the car brand, but also accessible to us. To give some credit, discussions were never about using it for evil purposes - imagine a secretary knowing their boss' schedule, our software would make suggestions like "you can't make your 1 PM luch appointment with the client, would you like to reschedule it" and "I see you're headed to Chicago and will arrive in 2 hours, should I make a reservation at that restaurant you like?" or some shit like that. But we all know that it's not the engineers who decide what the company does with the data once access to that data exists. And knowing where a user eats, having access to their calendar, having access to their phone... This shit can get out of hand so easily when a budget-oriented executive type decides it's time for this project to be even more profitable by selling the data to advertisers.
Last I heard before I left, the plan was to "get consent" to process this data through a disclaimer when booting the car's infotainment system, saying that attached devices share data with our servers etc. Read the manuals, ToS and pop-ups and don't connect your devices to systems that do this. You're already the client when buying a car worth thousands of dollars. Don't also be the product.
- such bullshit. how can engineers not let this happen?

What boils my blood is infotainment systems with icons and functionality for premium services that you can't hide or remove. It wastes space and it's just evil. I rented a Toyota Rav4 in Florida and I swear 1/4 of the front screen was for some satellite radio service that wasn't enabled.

Blank switches in vehicles has been a thing for 50 years.
- I'd say the problem is really the lack of tactile feedback. A touchscreen requires your eyes to use, while a dial with blanks just requires your touch to skip past the blanks. It's not impossible to memorize how many services to skip past, just made worse.

I have a 2009 Mazda 3 with Bluetooth connectivity and steering wheel button activated voice commands to make calls, configure the phone book and connections etc. This was the sweet spot for technology in cars in my opinion. Oh but the best part is all the dials and LCD clock are all in red light which is wonderful when driving at night.

Everything else I do via voice commands on my smartphone that's mounted on a phone mount on my dash. Like asking for GPS navigation, playing music, sending text messages.

Nowadays the car infotainment system is trying to reproduce what your smartphone already does with controls that are less intuitive.

Also, what's the deal with all the bright white and neon blue colors lighting up everything? Can I get a red filter for night driving maybe? Is that so hard to ask?

I have the 2018 Mazda 3, and Mazda is actually still one of the better companies when it comes to the infotainment stuff. No touch screen, and the controls are in the center console, where they're super easy to reach.
- I don’t know for sure about the 3, but the CX5 and CX9 definitely have touch screens but can only be used that way when stopped. The 2018 Mazda3 smart start guide says it also works that way. My wife didn’t even realize she had a touch screen until I showed her. I had an Infiniti with touch screen and knobs and I only used the knobs, they are superior for sure.
- Mazda also has some hilarious bugs in their infotainment systems. This forced people in Western Washington to the NPR station https://jalopnik.com/a-weird-radio-glitch-has-mazda-owners-stuck-listening-t-1848506850
I have a 2016 Mazda 3, and agree. I don't want a BS touch screen. I want intuitive controls that work without me having to look at a screen. The knob control is amazing.
Yeah my 2011 BMW has Bluetooth for calls/music streaming, and a navigation system that I can split screen so I've got a mini map showing the names of upcoming cross streets next to my music info. It's pretty much all I need and works great.
how much money does your car typically take to repair and how often?

I guess I like the idea of having tech in my vehicle, but it doesn't work right. I've found so many flaws in the software that can't be remedied. It's not designed with user control/customization as the main priority. Furthermore, it's tied to main functionality of the vehicle which is restrictive in what it allows you to do upgrade wise.

As an audio enthusiast, it sucks that I can't upgrade my stereo/audio system.

What would be ideal in my world is open, user focused technology, upgradeable and repairable, and not this proprietary bullshit that we currently have. This is not intelligent design.

Also, while I'm thinking about it, it's bullshit that we are forced into these operating systems. Uconnect is garbage. Just give me stock android, with the ability to do what I want to with the hardware in the way that I see fit. The responsibility, freedom, and trust of the consumer has been predetermined. I don't like that.

As an audio enthusiast, it sucks that I can’t upgrade my stereo/audio system.
Exactly! I can have the system I want but having it somehow means no heated seats in the winter.

I've never had a car with a touch screen or whatever fancy centre panel - but I have scrapped old cars because the ECU decided that there was an airbag fault which was not resolved with a new airbag. I'm a full time sysadmin/developer - my car does not need a computer to go, and if it must have one, it shouldn't be a brick covered in epoxy.

I somewhat long to return to dumb electromechanical components like distributors, rather than unimaginably expensive, irreparable, interdependent systems.

#RightToRepair

The battle against requiring a computer for your car to run was lost over 30 years ago. It's just been gradual expansion since then.
- A computer running the car isn't inherently bad. Direct injection with a computer running the show is very efficient for fuel usage. But at that point for commuter vehicles they might as well be electric motors
This is exactly the reason why they do it. They can put a hidden countdown or just outright brick your vehicle over the air and you can't really prove they did.
My 1991 4Runner doesn't even have a diagnostic port (pre OBDII), but you can get it to tell you what it thinks is wrong.
To do this, you need to use a paperclip to jump two terminals in a box under the hood, then turn the ignition to ON, count the number of times the check engine light blinks, write that down, then look up what that code means, in a book.
(Granted, the book is a PDF these days, but still)
As a sysadmin/dev you should know its not a computers = bad situation. It's God awful system implementation, trash software, trash components, and even worse redundancies.
It's like you're saying "why use email, when i can send a physical letter" in some aspects
But I agree these manufacturers produce shit products in the form of vehicle electronics.

Man, just wait until Mercedez and BMW get away with paywalling features like heating, seat adjustments and fucking max speed. Then you'll see satisfaction take a dive, to the surprise of no-fucking-one

Um, https://shop.mercedes-benz.com/en-us/connect/pdp/acceleration-increase/709
- But,.. but!.. oh, fuck them.

Why do I need a camera in the dash , focused on the driver, Toyota? (Eyes off the road for 5secs results in audio reminder to watch the road)

How long until Insurance or LE can access it?

Yaaaa, extra insurance (or none) for you! “You look away from the road too often, and you cry in your car on the way home from work. Both say you are a risk. “. Now insert your LE scenario….

Fuck everything to do with this shit!

Eyes off the road for 5secs
Nice rant, but if you do this, you really shouldn't be driving.
- 5 seconds is pretty long if you think about it, but I wouldn't like a camera pointed at my face.
- I think you're overthinking the specific number they gave rather than the general idea of quick glances away.
Just waitll it becomes mandatory, no camera no insurance. "if you're not doing anything wrong you don't have anything to be afraid of" they'll tell us, as they have countless times since the Patriot Act passed.

My car is 17 years old. It won't be long before I need to look out for a new one. Posts like these make me wary of buying a new one.

What would annoy me the most is having little to no physical buttons for trivial things, and the built in SBC to be slow as fuck. I hate lag on these systems. My wife has a smaller car with android auto and using the interface is just dreadful.

If there would be an electric car with the interior of my current car I would probably take it. It has a small chromosone display, just replace with a color one and let me control it with android auto and done.

Posts like these make you wary of buying a new one. At this point I see this so regularly though that I don't know if the usage is even wrong given how many people use it
- A lot of people use it wrong. Wary would be acceptable. Leery would be acceptable as well. Both mean cautious or suspicious. Weary equates to tired and doesn't fit the context.
- It's still wrong... Don't let the "language evolves" people convince you otherwise.
Buying a car should be a fun experience. Book a few testdrives and try to enjoy the experience. When looking for a new car there has always been several I disliked, but I always found one or two that felt comfortable in.
- I have always seen the new car buying experience to be something to get excited about.... except now. I am at the early stages of looking at what I want to replace my dairy driver with and like NOTHING is really calling to me. At this stage in the past, I would have already driven a couple of cars simply to take them off my shopping list or keep them on, and I haven't bothered to test drive a single car yet.
I think if you shop around you can get the kind of interface you want. I got a 2021 Subaru and they had just switched back to more actual buttons and knobs because people didn’t like the capacitive buttons and touchscreen. In my car it has a touchscreen for CarPlay so basically just maps and music and everything else is a knob or physical button. Things may have changed since too so ymmv. Good luck
- Your comment about Subaru is not true across the board. I have a 2023 Ascent that has very limited physical buttons. The same infotainment system and setup is now on the Outback as well.

CarPlay is the truth. All that built in shit is utter trash.

Android Auto for me
- I live in a city where owning a car is not necessary. For the rare occasions that I do need/want a car I will rent. I go out of my way to request cars with android auto. I don't know how anyone could buy a car today without it.. It's really unacceptable.
Try having an infotainment system that will just randomly disconnect and crash Android Auto every ~10 minutes. I don't own a car myself, but instead use a non-profit car rental service, so I've tried my fair share of different manufacturers and models. The worst of them all is the one in Skoda Superb (VW group company), if you put it back from reverse into drive, it would normally just freeze the entire screen while still on rear camera, and the front sensors wouldn't work. Then it would reboot the whole infotainment system after some minutes.
The worst physical interface can also be found in VW group cars, both VW ID3 and Cupra Born have a completely horrible capacitive touch button setup, which makes you unintendedly touch them when just holding the steering wheel, doing things like disabling lane control, changing cruise control etc. They said they chose them because they wanted to give a "premium feel", which indicates they basically did zero user testing. At least they are changing to physical buttons for new models. The software is pretty bad as well, laggy and unintuitive menus. Their CEO recently resigned, and they've put $9 billion into increasing their developer team past 10k people, so I assume it has been acknowledged and will get better in newer models.
It's gotten to the point where I will just avoid VW group brands alltogether when booking a car.
- I have an ID3 and agree with you to some degree. It's not quite unusable, but the touch buttons are high on the list of things I'd like to change.
  I'm not that bothered with the layout of the infotainment system, but it'd be great if it didn't slow down and crash as often.
  If they had gotten those things right is the ID3 would have been such a perfect little car for me. I love it otherwise. Quick, decent ACC, range is fine for its intended use.
- No need to add anything to this, I got a Golf 8 🤣
  Tbh the infotainment is kinda glitchy when reversing, but never to the point of completely crashing.
  That pain with capacitive buttons is real tho.
I don't see the hype with CarPlay/Android Auto. I'd rather just not have a screen in my car.
- CarPlay and Android Auto actually work well, and you can use the apps that you already have on your phone. The screens are generally more convenient and restrict view less than a phone holder stuck to the window. But without those, I agree that I'd rather have no screen than one with crappy media controls and the car's own navigation.
- I can control Waze and Apple Music/Podcasts from my steering wheel, or the rotary knob. Or the touchpad if I was a weirdo. It's amazing.
  Yes, you could achieve the same for music/podcasts via bluetooth, but you couldn't switch between which app is playing, and you didn't get Waze/Maps/Whatever GPS app you prefer, they're all better than the built in shit on most cars.
  I suppose you could also get by with a paper map for your road trips and stuff, but personally I'm too lazy for that. It's fun, don't get me wrong, but I don't want to stop my car to figure out where I'm going.
- I gotta have it. Although my car is designed properly with knobs and buttons for ac, seat heat, and radio controls. Was a major factor when deciding what I bought. I absolutely love how seamless CarPlay works with my music and GPS. Nice not to have to have a phone mount on my dash.
- This is the correct answer. Give me more buttons and knobs and switches

Airlines have started to ditch their on board entertainment system and allowing people to use their smartphones instead. Cars should be like this too. Simply allow us to plug in our phones to act as the computer for entertainment, navigation and climate control. Keep tactile knobs and buttons for fall back.

Isn’t that what CarPlay / android CarPlay is?
- Yes
- Isn't GM moving away from Android Auto and Apple CarPlay? How does that even work?

My buying habits mostly consist of living in the late 2000s and what little open source tech there is a available such as framework and pine64. I'm allergic to manufactured ewaste. If i can't maintain it, i don't want it.

I love the idea of a computerized car and fully integrated infotainment system. In the same way I would love a fully automated house. The automation and debugging benefits would be incredible. But only if I'm in control at an open source hardware / software level. Otherwise it's just manufactured ewaste to me.

I couldn’t care less about all of the proprietary “infotainment” stuff, but I’ll never buy another car that doesn’t have Apple car play or maybe Android auto if I ever switch back to Android one day. Some manufacturers have talked about killing support.

I have a 2018 car and the android auto on it doesn't seem to be compatible with the android auto on phones anymore. It worked fine for a few years, but not anymore. I highly doubt they release a software update for it to make it compatible again.

Same reason I'm still driving an older truck. While I've been wanting to upgrade to a new truck, I don't want to deal with the computer controlling every aspect of the vehicle (breaks, accelerator, lights, etc.) As it is now, if I want to turn my headlights on, a relay controls it. Same with the turn signal, radio, A/C, and the list goes on

I had to drive a newer Subaru recently, and it had no physical interface for any of the fan controls. I had to glance down to change temperature and speed, and that had me really uncomfortable.
Flat screen HMI don't work in cars, and I am not on board with it as a standard.
I don't get how my headlights can be set to off and for some reason they are still on. And I don't need my headlights to stay on for 30 seconds after I leave my car, I want to know that my lights are off and I won't wake up to a dead battery. (Luckily I just figured out how to disable this)
And automatic lift gates that don't open unless 10 unknown conditions are met is infuriating. It's not a useful feature unless your disabled.
I do like those unlock buttons on the door handles when your keys are nearby though... When they work anyways.
- I do like those unlock buttons on the door handles when your keys are nearby though... When they work anyways.
  My Dad has an '08 Toyota Prius that was gifted to him recently. He loves being able to just unlock the door by grabbing the handle. I tried it out for about a week when he was still getting the tags for it and also enjoyed it.
  My '10 Ford Ranger is a fleet truck, so simplified its an XL with zero options. The only "upgrade" might've been the seats, vinyl instead of cloth. No electronic locks, no alarm, no electronic windows.

This trend is why I am saving to swap the engine on my car when it blows. I don't like any screens in my car but a digital clock, and maybe a readout on the dash. I just want a fun, reliable vehicle with excellent AC, good safety ratings, and decent fuel mileage. Power windows are a bonus. Lol

Rather than a screen a good place to mount phone by default which is easy to remove and place would be amazing.
- That would be awesome. Give me a place to put my phone, connect me to an amp/speakers and noise cancelling mic array via Bluetooth. That's all I need from a car stereo. AM/FM tuner is nice in an emergency or no data area.
I don’t like any screens in my car
I thought I didn't either until I got a car with a built-in backup cam. Extremely helpful, and I feel vulnerable in a car without it.
- In the US, they're mandatory in all new vehicles.
  I'd wager this is part of the reason for the ubiquitousness of touchscreens.
- Yeah I didn't think about that. I can see that being a good exception. Good point.
I am waiting for this day as well, and hoping I can then mod my truck to be electric.
- That'd be dope too. I wouldn't mind a customer electro retrofit eventually. Infrastructure needs vast improvements first.

The increasing tech-ification of (all) cars played a role in reducing how much I want a car. Now I'm yearning for the simplicity and visceral feel of a motorcycle, and I will give in to these temptations soon.

I had a hard time explaining to a salesman why I didn't want a car with touchscreen controls for everything. "Touchscreens are better!" Yeah, but I don't want to take my eyes off the road to cycle through four menus just to turn on the defogger. Tactile buttons or nothing.
- Salesmen aren't looking to understand what you want beyond knowing what might match up to what they have to offer. If they have a showroom full of cars with touch screens, then they'll act like it doesn't make sense to not want a touch screen because agreeing with you implies agreeing that you should look elsewhere.
  There are some salesmen that are good about this and don't want to waste your time or theirs, but car salesmen have a certain reputation for a reason.

Fuck all of this, and insurance companies that want to track your driving behavior with a module installed in your car.

My problem with it is that "standards" aren't really standards. I have a car from 2015. It has an LCD panel that's supposed to connect to your phone. Too bad that the standards changed in 2015... Now it sits there totally useless.

Heh - my car from 2006 has 2 SD card slots behind the radio/nav screen for my MP3 and M4A files.
I also ripped out the CD changer for a BT integration, but I still use the SD cards sometimes.

The older I get and the more I get into tech, the less I want of it in my life. Especially when driving two tons of metal on the highway. Fuck that noise.

the "term" technology has been corrupted. what people call "tech" is not tech, it is gadgetry.

I am currently keeping my 2004 going as long as possible. These people need to just make everything configurable, like a smartphone, and then I'd make the switch. It's the last piece of bad design that's keeping me on an ice vehicle at this point.

<vent>

I don't want to have to look down to change the radio station just because some jackass buried it under 3 fucking menus. That's dangerous, damn it! Fuck your research, let me configure my own shit!

</vent>

They need to just put knobs and buttons for all the car stuff and bring back interchangeable faceplates so people can just get what they want/need for stereo/GPS equipment.

I don't have a problem with Auto Technology, but I have a problem with a small minor feature that has nothing to do with moving a car having an ability to disable the car completely.

I have a 2006 Chevy Malibu. It goes "vroom" and gets from point a to point b. I bought a Bluetooth thing that plugs into the cigarette lighter and a little hook for my phone so now I can make calls hands free, use the GPS easily, and I can listen to my music.

It's perfect lol

I'm still driving my 2007 Volvo with less than 100k miles and it's perfect. In excellent shape, just did a 2000 mile road trip no problem.
I went to test drive some new cars and HATED all of them. I've driven plenty of cars, some good some bad, but nothing pisses me off like needing an operating manual to adjust HVAC, radio, seats, mirrors etc.
Im holding onto my car as long as i can but I'm concerned about what I'll do when it finally dies. BUTTONS guys, wtf was wrong with tactile buttons?
- I agree 100%! I had to use a rental car for work a while back and it basically had a full Android tablet in the dash. It was fun to play with when I first got the car but it was super distracting while I was driving and I found myself getting lost in the menus trying to do simple stuff while I was driving and it just seemed irresponsible for it to be there at all. It was also weird driving at night with a big glowing touch screen beaming at me the whole time

It's honestly really stupid. I think that car manufacturers are trying to design their cars to look futuristic, while not understanding that the futuristic designs from the previous 30 years are impractical, fantastical, and stupid to pull into real life. You can really tell they aren't actually trying to improve based on user feedback when designing these things.

Nah, they are trying to save money. Every knob adds time and materials to the manufacturing process and thus loses money.
- I agree for the interiors of the vehicles, but I'm not sure if the weirdly designed exteriors are more cost effective.
It's wild how the machine is starting to make its own decisions. There's no controlling it now. It lives, it breathes.
And before op could reply vd1n vanished into a cloud of cannabis vapor and fell asleep.
- Dude.... Puff puff
  PASS

Just give me an amp with Bluetooth so I can play my phone through the car speakers. Anything the car makers produce will be woefully out of date before I sell the car.

see also: every mid-to-late 00's car with specific iPod connection ports
- i wonder if what the cassette tape adapter of the future will be like for people into vintage cars from 2010-2023?

This is because knobs, switches and buttons are easier to use than touchscreens. I like having carplay/androidauto while still being able to turn a knob or press a button for AC, volume, radio etc.

I have Carplay and I can use my physical rotary knob, back button, etc. In fact, that's what makes it great for me, I get to interact with my phone using the physical controls on my car. Best of both worlds.

swapped out my dumb dash unit for android auto and never going back. next car will either have android auto and carplay or it will be easily removable/replaceable or no buy.

Yeah there's something about choosing form over substance that triggers the shit out of me. I like nice things but easy simple user friendly designs are paramount IMO especially for something that can get multiple people killed like a car.
Related: I stayed at a fancy hotel recently and the shower had a digital control panel to turn on the water, control temperature and pressure, multiple spouts etc. Take a guess how well it worked once it got steamy.
Knobs and buttons guys, jeez.

Our Subaru nags you to check your text messages constantly while driving. Can’t be disabled if you want to use carplay.

Every time I've connected my phone through Carplay I have to explicitly give the car permission to access my texts. If you refuse that permission, does the car still nag you about texts?
EDIT: Maybe it's only Android Auto that makes you explicitly give the car access to texts. I don't remember if my Apple workphone asks for permission.

It's not a joke, the majority of people carry around a crazy amount of technology in our phones.

And it's not meaningfully replaced in the console. I don't know what GM's thinking because I will never accept a business or personal vehicle that doesn't have Car Play/Android Auto ever again. It's that useful...

Last car I bought was a 2015, infotainment in it is a disaster but completely ignorable/replaceable. If cars keep going the way they are, Ill drive what I have into the ground.

My wife's (2023) Rav4 shows texts on the screen when she receives them while driving. I'm just amazed at that.

- For the record, when you connect your phone to the Rav4's bluetooth, you can set it to audio/phone only.

Cars should have a screen with HDMI+USB plugs. Then you connect the microcomputer of your choice, be it an Android box, an apple cad box, a Raspberry Pi. Hell manufacturers can even make their own Honda or Toyota box but make the screen connection an open standard. Then when the tech becomes old (every 5 years) you can swap it. Cars have a longer lifespan than tech.

they basically kill the car stereo and install scene, back in the 90 to like 2010 you could easly do alot of car stereo mods I mean alot, but then they started to put this screen with car functions embeded on them like AC etc. so you can't exchange them for what you want.

True story. Next car I own will be a manual. Won’t even bother setting up the electronic junk if it comes with it.

Nobody's getting arrested for accidentally calling 911.

If something like the AC, gear switching, volume controls, or another essential function is only usable via the touchscreen, I'd just stop considering that car because it's unsafe and time consuming to use touchscreens in cars. They're right, too much tech in cars is very annoying and I think most people (like me) would rather have dedicated physical buttons to control most actions in a car.

Oh shit you unlocked a memory for me.
Can't find it right now because I'm at work, but I believe one of the "Real People" ads from Chevy that Zebra Corner parodied on YouTube, had a person literally say they like modern car tech because it lets them "look less at the road", which is boring.
I mean sorry, but wtf?

My prior car had no fancy features, the nicest thing it could do was read MP3's burned on to a CD, and hold 6 CDs in the player. I traded it in and got newer car, and I think it's level of fanciness is just right for me. It has a screen, I ignore it most of the time, unless I plug my phone in to listen to music. Then I use the screen to get into Youtube Music and that's it. Or the same situation as before, but I need to navigate with Google Maps.

So by and large I can 100% ignore the screen, unless I plug in the phone. But all control of Next Track/Back, volume up/down is controlled by buttons on the steering wheel.

The largest nightmare for me is tough sensitive controls FOR EVERYTHING! I've read that it's becoming more and more common in new expensive cars, and I have not interested in that bullshit.

The only tech I want in my car is satellite navigation, Bluetooth audio and Bluetooth calling support. Anything else is fluff.

Reverse camera is nice, too

I read an article about how much gas it saved over a long period of time and it was a trivial amount.
Nearly every article I can find says they save around 3% with air conditioning on when it's warm and around 10% with AC off or when AC isn't very active. Saving 10% of fuel is really good over the life of a car. Saving 3% isn't much over the life of a car for you, but it's huge when multiplied by a few billion cars worldwide.

useful technology has been neglected for years. simple thing like autostart and remote warm up/cool down have been outsourced instead of built in. some brands are light years ahead with apps/monitoring and people are figuring that out.

I used to be a techie, but my Nissan leaf of 2018 does not seem to work with Android auto for more than 20 seconds.

And then there is the native system. It's ugly, it's slow. And it does not even update.

This is my last Nissan...

The only app I need is Android auto or a decent equivalent. Heck I don't even need on board GPS. Just let me plug in my smartphone and have it display everything on the car's screen.

I have a 2023 Tuscon and I love it. The car drives incredibly smoothly, the handling is amazing, I spend about $30 a month on gas total (hybrid), it practically drives itself on the highway, and its a super comfortable and spacious interior. That being said, I do wish it had more physical buttons on the console, I think they are going back to that in the future, but I can easily live with how it is now, I just dont really fiddle with things while I am driving.

Digital touch screen ac controls make me furious
I'll be praying for you when the wave of recalls start coming out

I wish my car’s interface was more minimal.

I don’t mean removing knobs, knobs are good. Hiding things in 5 level deep touchscreen menus is not minimal.

I mean.. removing visual noise. Removing unnecessary lights. Streamlining controls. Taking away indicators that aren’t important.

My dashboard dials are now a screen, why can’t I have an option just to display the speed and nothing else? Why do I need to see 4 dials, two driving modes, and some other crap all the time?

There’s a separate screen for the satnav, why does it need to have permanent menus displayed on it? Or visible buttons? Road names? Status indicators for various settings? I want an oled with a black pixels-off background, roads in gray, and my route in white. Nothing else. Not using the satnav, turn the screen off.

Why do I need a perpetually scrolling display showing the name of the current song? Like sure I want an interface to choose music, but I don’t need to see it all the damn time.

CarPlay is better than most native infotainment systems but it’s far from perfect in this regard.

Yeah my 2013 Honda has Hondalink, whatever the heck that is and an outdated GPS system which I refuse to pay to upgrade. I typically buy a five or six year old honda which I don't look forward to next go round, bc I'm sure the tech will be woefully outdated.

The problem is that backup camera's are mandated safety equipment, and that means a screen. And if you have to put in a screen and all that infrastructure anyway, it's only a few more dollars to add a proper infotainment system.

I lost the key to my car since last August and just found it a few months ago. Car needed a bunch of work since it had some problems and just got it back on the road this week. They finally canceled work from home so I needed the car. I have been using my wife's since we both really didn't need it much at the same time. Anyway my car is an 07 basic model car and hers is from 2015 and has a backup camera. Going back to my car is crazy just because of how used to the backup camera I had gotten. I immediately look to my center console area and go oh yeah... I then wondered just how many people have the issue of going backwards with car technology like I did!
- I'd had backup cameras in my cars for 6 years, and my girlfriend's car that I drive a lot has one, too. My current car is a 2011 work truck with roll up windows and no power locks. It has AM/FM with no tape, CD, or screen for a backup camera.
  I definitely miss the backup camera going from her car to my truck.
Okay a bit off topic but am I the only one who thinks that car companies are hiding bad design with back up cams? Like I feel like thats part of the reason why cars are getting bigger, cause they don't need to make everything easy to see from the drivers seat.
Backup camera and more buttons than you'll ever need
https://cars.usnews.com/static/images/Auto/izmo/i2314392/2016_volvo_xc60_dashboard.jpg
I love my car.

I don't see why my vehicle has to tell me what song is playing through my IPod, on the screen where the wheel is, that displays more important information like tire PSI and speed. The bigger screen is more than sufficient.

I've never ever had the chance of experiencing it. My car is over 23 years old by memory, still runs great as Toyota's do but damn I'd love to have something more then a broken CD player and strip black and white interface.

Perhaps I'd be one to appreciate all this 'useless' tech.

There are extremely affordable aftermarket head units available that are also pretty easy projects to install even for a novice DIYer.
- This is very true and I actually forgot about this lmao because my wife insists that we just wait until we get a new car..

I just went through the car buying process the other day and it was between a Odyssey Luxury or EX-L. Honestly I hated all the space age dash shit they tried to cram into the Luxury version so I went EX-L. Was definitely one of the deciding factors exspecially considering it cost 10k more for basically only tech upgrades that I would never use. Ridiculous.

I just bought a car for my son last month. Things I looked for:
No major issues or recalls on the model for 5 years. Especially no major powertrain issues.
Easy to drive and control the vehicle.
Big mirrors and windows to make it easy to see behind.
Comfortable seats for driving long distances.
AWD or 4WD for our winters.
Android auto on the screen. Buttons and knobs for all important vehicle controls.
The number of cars that failed to have these features was terrifyingly sad. I saw some of the dumbest designs on car interiors while test driving as well.
The most egregious was a couple of vehicles that put major vehicle controls (knobs) right next to the cup holders. Somebody has never spilled a soda on their keyboard.

Still rolling my old 2000 Honda CRV. I know nothing about any of this new car witchery.

Nice, how many miles? Did you buy it new, or how did it come to be yours?
- I bought it brand new 23 years ago! We’re at 208k. I’m pushing for 300 we goin all the way!

My biggest gripe is the "safety" features that just enable bad driving. Too lazy to shoulder check? don't worry, blinky light on the mirror has you. Don't bother looking back when backing out? camera has you. veering off the road a bit cause you're not paying attention? lane keep assist!
Any one of these things can fail and the shit driving habits are all some of these people have to fall back on.

Let's go back to roll up windows, standard transmissions, and using your eyes to see where things are.

The ads for emergency braking are the worst, like the dad who is looking in the rearview mirror at his daughter, and then Screeeech the car slams to a hault because pops wasn't paying attention. Everyone in the car has a sensible chuckle about it, and they go on with their day.
No: are you crazy? Wtf are you doing? You almost ran over that woman! Pay attention!
What a bad take. These things are safety additions and will by responsible drivers be treated as such. Backup cameras are standard safety equipment now, do you also hate those? Shitty drivers will be shitty with or without safety precautions from a car. When one of those shitty drivers attempts to change into my lane while not checking if it is clear. At least I can hope their car prevents them from smashing into me.
- That's fair. I can understand your view.
I think you forgot that people have cell phones so those who were already couldn't drive now can't drive with a cell phone. And they're driving giant cars. I need their car to scream at them because I can not.
- Yea. I'm diligent about the phone staying in my own pocket while I'm driving. I forget I can't always give others the benefit of the doubt.