Senate passes TikTok ban bill, sending it to Biden, who has already committed to signing it
Senate passes TikTok ban bill, sending it to Biden, who has already committed to signing it
This is the wrong way to go about solving this problem IMO, but then again the problem they're trying to solve is more about security than privacy as a right.
Watching from Europe I have no idea what the problem is. The US spies on our data, the CCP spies on our data. I can see why the US government might worry that they can't access the data (except TikTok runs its servers on Oracle databases in the US just to satisfy them). But I don't understand why the citizens of the US would support tightening the monopoly to just Facebook and Google.
It’s not just about data and spying, it’s also about media and influence. The argument being made that it’s not a good idea to have a “hostile” nation effectively controlling one of the major/dominant social media platforms.
There is also the trade issue of reciprocity, China bans many if not most of the western platforms, while they have free rein to operate theirs in the west.
The issue is that China controls the algorithm for what users see. This gives them the ability to manipulate users by showing specific content to sway their opinion on things. This is specifically about China's ability to manipulate US citizens.
Its actually also a media problem. For example, the largest Tiktok account of a german politician belongs to Maximilian Krah, of the far right party AFD. Just yesterday it was revealed that his personal assistant is actually a Chinese spy. Krah himself voiced a lot of pro-Chinese opinions before, like being pro annexation of Taiwan and denying the genocide on the uigyurs.
This begs the question if his Tiktok popularity is based on a non-biased algorithm or if the CCP made a deal with him, boosting his Tiktok popularity in exchange for being pro-China.
What's the security issue? That China has personal information about millions of Americans?
Who doesn't have personal information about millions of Americans these days?
It isnt about past data, it's about current data and trends. It's also about a foreign government controlling what another government's citizens see through an algorithm.
Haha right? Remember the Equifax breach? I think the security claim isn't genuine in intent, but I can believe that all else being equal, privacy violation does result in risk to security.
Even more reason to solve the underlying issues and hold companies accountable for how they handle privacy and personal information. Ideally I'd like to see the hoarding of personal data be somehow demonitized.
Oh no, this includes "aids" to Israel isn't it...
Why the hell do Israel needs more money?! They are not even close to poor...
It's not about that.... It's about feeding the porks of the military industrial complex
we are now in the process of cooking my friends.
Support your local darknet if you do not like censorship and violation of our rights
It's free :)
we are now in the process of cooking my friends
Would you like some A1 sauce with your rack of Nathan?
i would just like to experience nature in solitude my friend. That is all.
Whew the propaganda smokescreen almost fully fell apart with people waking up and seeing us support Genocide. Good thing we went full authoritarianism to stop it!
Free speech was always a lie I guess
All parties involved are asinine. The lawmakers, the company, both governments, the voters and the users.
Ew. I looked through the bill, and here are some parts I have issues with:
So basically, the US can block any form of software (not just social media) distributed by an adversary county for pretty much reason, and it can block any company providing access to anything from an adversary.
The adversary countries are (defined in a separate US code):
So if you live in any of these or work for a company based in any of these, you're subject to the law.
It specifically calls out TikTok and ByteDance, but it also allows the President to denote any other entity in one of those countries as a significant threat.
So here are my issues:
So I think the bill is way too broad (lots of "or"s), and I'm worried it could allow the government to ban competition with US company competitors. It's not as bad as I feared, but I still think it's harmful.
Anyway, thoughts?
Isn't Nginx written by a Russian? So is it now banned in the US? What other software has been effected by this legislation?
"Hello, we are ClickClock, a totally different (😉😉😉) social media company hoping to fill the void of that one social media company that recently went under. As a matter of fact, with their recent layoffs we were even able to hire much of their talent and stuff. But totally different!"
That's about how trivial it would be to get around this if the legislation was too specific
Sure, and the more general it is, the more likely the government can get away with shady stuff, like the NSA did with the FISA rubber stamp courts.
This doesn't seem nearly as bad as that, but I also don't think the stakes are all that high if they make things too specific.
Thoughts? Someone turned a troll farm loose on this one. We've been getting ratioed for weeks saying this and now all the shills screaming that we must support the CCP and hate our own country because it's an obvious national security measure are gone. Ones that suspiciously needed the Constitution explained to them at the most basic level.
We got played by the people that are supposed to represent us.
It's not that bad, but I do think it's bad, and I outlined why. But my concerns aren't with whether TikTok is good or bad (I think it's bad, hence why I don't use it), I'm more concerned with granting the federal government even more power with vaguely written laws.
The CCP can burn to the ground as far as I care.
I'm not sure it would cover open source software since it seems to be more concerned with data than the actual code. If that open source software is being used by a company controlled by a foreign adversary then that would probably apply but if it's open source software created by a foreign adversary but being used by a US company I don't think that would.
The actual wording of the bill seems pretty vague so I could be wrong and they might be able to apply it just to software but that would kind of to against the entire option B that they're currently giving ByteDance where they can keep Tik Tok running by selling it to an American company.
literally all you would have to do for OSS is just fork it to someone living in america, and develop it from there.
The actual wording of the bill seems pretty vague
And that's the issue. Yeah, it probably won't apply to FOSS today, but times change and maybe it will in 10+ years.
Doesn't that mean games like Genshin Impact and Honkai by Chinese companies like HoYo will be banned then too in the states?
No, but it probably could be. I think Fortnite also qualifies.
The bill only allows the federal government to require companies to sell or be banned, it doesn't ban anything on its own.
once again - not a ban, a seizure. Steve Mnuchin is heading a group of government insiders who want to buy TikTok, and this bill bans it if and only if they don't sell. The government has decided that TikTok is a dangerous propaganda and espionage network and intends to steal it and run it themselves. Even if you think that TikTok is that dangerous you have to ask yourself: why is it legal for everyone else and why does our government want so badly to do it themselves?
If China really is using TikTok for psyops, then they will refused to sell, flood TikTok with anti-government sentiment for its remaining days, and then direct people to just use the TikTok website hosted in China (is our government going to start blocking access to websites too?).
One silver line here is "the youths" will learn, in an unusually clear way, that the government effects their lives and can screw up their lives.
(is our government going to start blocking access to websites too?).
I can't imagine why they wouldn't. The movie industry is already lobbying for it
You know TikTok is global right?
But yeah Biden is just over here casually giving Trump better chances.
Yup. And the precedent this sets is horrifying. Even monopolies get due process. Being able to declare a company as a foreign enemy and force them to leave the market or be bought out is a ridiculous measure in a supposedly free society.
Because then Facebook will pay for your reelection campaign?
First off, source? Second, the npr interview I heard mentioned specifically that China has to approve the sale because the algorithm is proprietary to a Chinese company. So anyone "buying TikTok" is buying a name and none of the actual bones of the social media platform
Aren't the bones the cheap part now? Think truth social for instance, why was it supposedly worth so much if anyone can spin up a Mastadon instance and make it the same restrictions over the weekend. The userbase numbers are all that mattered there I assume. Why is reddit worth more than Lemmy? Is it because the bones are expensive? Or is it that they have access to a large userbase already.
source?
First page when you google 'Steve Mnuchin'
the npr interview I heard
source?
The free market for me but not for thee
US apps all banned in China.
Yeah, that's true, but China doesn't claim to be a beacon of capitalism
"Well he did it first" is really not how I want a government to be run tbh
Biden signs bill criticized as “major expansion of warrantless surveillance”
This also happened a few days ago
China should force apple to sell off it's Chinese business to a Chinese company.
China doesn't need to, Apple is complying with Chinese law (remove all vpn related apps, all un-registered foreign app are removed and storing Chinese datas in Chinese servers).
Apple is likely the most complying foreign company in China.
If I was Biden and I wanted to make sure absolutely nobody under 35 voted for me, first thing I'd do is genocide.
If that didn't work, then I'd restart student loans.
If that didn't work, I'd ban Tiktok.
Edit: To the people downvoting me: Do you think giving Israel the bombs they use to carry out genocide, restarting student loans, and banning tiktok helps Biden's reelection chances?
Are you republicans who don't want him to change course? Are you democrats perpetually stuck in 2016, blaming voters rather than asking "What policies caused us to lose? What changes do we need to make to win?"
It really doesn’t seem like they want to win
They are the second bit. They've been going hard on saying anyone who won't vote for Biden is actually a bigot who loves Trump and wants a domestic genocide.
As a person down voting this comment to the person writing the edit: give me a better solution. Tell me what I should do. Just for you, I'll play the sheep. I'll do whatever you tell me if it guarantees I'll get a president who respects everyone, manages to end all wars while proffering an era of unmitigated peace and enlightenment, and gives me access to affordable education. Please, give me that option, because if you believe some third party shitbrick is gonna do the trick, you are more diluted than the right wing nuts you rail against. Anyone, and I mean fucking ANYONE, who downplays the importance of keeping Biden in office is a fucking conservative shill, bar none. You can not in your right mind believe that shit talking Biden and ignoring the obvious alternative is even close to a sane course of dialogue. I'll hold Biden accountable for his transgressions, just like I would anyone else, but please don't tell me there is some win scenario that doesn't involve in him office for a second term, because there isn't one, no matter how hard you try to justify your bullshit.
Pressure Biden to do the things he needs to do to get elected. Voters are gonna do what they're gonna do. You cannot shame millions of voters into taking an unpaid day off to vote for someone who has told them through his actions that he does not and will not represent them.
Trying to silence such analysis just helps the DNC maintain the delusion that they can win while standing up to the very voters they need instead of doing what they are telling the democrats to do.
noooo not the cringe app! everything but the cringe app
yes, ban on tiktok is a net positive
Do you think banning tiktok increases or decreases Biden's popularity?
First they came for TikTok..
It's not even a ban, though. TikTok will just be owned by a US company instead of a Singaporean owned company. Literally nothing else will change, I hate to break it to you - cringe app will still be used by millions.
I didn't know it was legal for a law to make it through the senate that fast
lol
nah it’s legit, just look at any of the military spending bills which rocket through at warp speed
Oh that's why it passed so fast, it was the aid package that was bundled with it
As of the Resolving Differences phase this is where we are at with the text of the bill.
BTW, not a ban. It was never a ban.
It's always annoyed me that it's been commonly referred to as a ban, when it's actually a forced sale.
It's actually not even that, at least not yet, the bill text just empowers the FTC to do FTC stuff to the company.
It will be a different product for the consumer, so it's effectively a Tiktok ban in my eyes...
You think all my Palestinian and adjacent Tiktokers will still be in my feed once it's sold?
If they don’t sell isn’t it a ban?
They haven't technically been forced to sell either, the bill gives the FTC the authority to act against them. They still have the opportunity to stop sending copious amounts of Data to China, and if they continue then the FTC ruling will give them an ultimatum usually in the form of massive fines. It would be a weird timeline if China just paid the bill and kept spying, lol.
I honestly don't like tiktok but this is clearly done to censor the pro palestine content and for exposing the US gov along many others as hypocrites
I wonder how strange your own public policies must be to accept a situation like this... don't they see the impact this will have on thousands of people who literally need this platform? I don't think so... the American big tech lobby has the loudest voice, right?
This isn't good, now we're only left with the tech giants dictating what people can see.
From what I know, certain special interests want TikTok under their control so they can censor certain topics. People keep saying this is happening because of CCP, etc. But I believe they want this platform "censored" before the elections. The other major players already play ball with censorship but TikTok caught them by surprise.
Well we already were. Now we’re just down to American tech giants.
He writes while using Lemmy to see this
Oh god. Don't tell me this is a pro-hamas post. All it is missing is idiots calling everything hasbara or some other buzz word.
China doesn't allow any other apps in their country so why should America allow Chinese apps? America shouldn't keep Chinese malware out of our networks because... ya'll are addicted to TikTok?
This isn't about Palestine. Not everything is hasbara and because of Israel. TikTok isn't the voice of freedom or reason. Ya'll just brainwashed by Chinese algorithms designed to upset the user base. The algorithm is doing what it is supposed to do: create division.
Edit: spelling
No this post actually is Hamas. Please tell Israel quickly
BREAKING: Israel dronestrikes lemmy.world servers, points to potential Hamas base inside storage drives
I agree with you. The CCP classifies recommendation algorithms in a category similar to defense secrets. It isn't just Tiktok that can't be sold to non-Chinese, it is all recommendation algorithms. They know damn well what effect these algorithms have on a population.
Something we can all agree on at least I would think
The government telling us which social media platforms we're allowed to use? No I don't think we agree and I don't even use TikTok.
Nope. Guess again.
I posted this in the other thread, but..
Now congress can tell any company to get fucked and sell to the highest bidder? So much for free market republicans.
China will just find another company to buy our data from, because as it turns out, the problem isn't just TikTok, it's the fact the it's legal for companies (foreign and domestic) to sell and exchange our data in the first place. TikTok will still collect the same data, and instead of it going straight to China, it'll go to a rich white fuck first and they'll be the ones to sell it to China instead.
And if the problem is the fact that it's addictive, well, we have plenty of our own home grown addictions for people to sink their time into. You don't see congress telling those companies to get sold to a new owner.
Incorrect, the Bill is broad but it's not any company for any reason.
The "PROTECTING AMERICANS’ DATA FROM FOREIGN ADVERSARIES ACT OF 2024" has this to say:
(a) Prohibition.—It shall be unlawful for a data broker to sell, license, rent, trade, transfer, release, disclose, provide access to, or otherwise make available personally identifiable sensitive data of a United States individual to— (1) any foreign adversary country; or (2) any entity that is controlled by a foreign adversary. (b) Enforcement By Federal Trade Commission.— (1) UNFAIR OR DECEPTIVE ACTS OR PRACTICES.—A violation of this section shall be treated as a violation of a rule defining an unfair or a deceptive act or practice under section 18(a)(1)(B) of the Federal Trade Commission Act (15 U.S.C. 57a(a)(1)(B)). (2) POWERS OF COMMISSION.— (A) IN GENERAL.—The Commission shall enforce this section in the same manner, by the same means, and with the same jurisdiction, powers, and duties as though all applicable terms and provisions of the Federal Trade Commission Act (15 U.S.C. 41 et seq.) were incorporated into and made a part of this section. (B) PRIVILEGES AND IMMUNITIES.—Any person who violates this section shall be subject to the penalties and entitled to the privileges and immunities provided in the Federal Trade Commission Act. (3) AUTHORITY PRESERVED.—Nothing in this section may be construed to limit the authority of the Commission under any other provision of law.and then like a bunch of pages of hyper-specific definitions for the above terms.
Am I misunderstanding something this actually sounds like a positive thing. Although I wish it was not just for "foreign adversary country; or any entity that is controlled by a foreign adversary." And instead just in general
Ah, so congress can just write hyper specific definitions that only apply to one company (as long as they don't directly name said company). Got it, seems like great precedent to me.
The big point is, how does that power get used?
There is no due process. So someone like Trump could just declare a company to be a foreign adversary. If this was like an Anti-Trust case that had to be built and proven in court we wouldn't have a problem with it. But it's not. You're just literally declaring it, no evidence required.
China made American companies partner and share their IP with Chinese companies to access the Chinese market when the Chinese market was opened to outsiders back in the 90s. That’s how China caught up to us in technology, they straight up stole the IP and changed terms on the American companies. I believe there is some tit for tat happening here. China has done a lot of fucked up shit and they are definitely actively hacking American infrastructure and social engineering against American interests. They are harvesting American data and tweaking the algorithm to actively undermine American interests. Whether you agree or disagree, China started this fight. China has banned most American social media already.
A. Creating laws that let us act like an authoritarian regime is not a good thing.
B. They didn't need to do any of that with TikTok. Late stage capitalism is radicalizing people every day. All they need to do is get out of the way of them finding each other.
China doesn't need TikTok to do any of that, including the data collection. They can just get it from data brokers (either by purchasing or stealing it). Because guess what? Data collection and/or sale of said data to foreign countries wasn't made illegal with this bill.
And that's really what most politicians care about. Meta and Co. are butthurt that the new dopamine dealer on the block is cutting so ruthlessly into their numbers, especially among the younger generations. Normally, Meta et. al. would just engage in their typical antitrust behavior and buy them out, but they can't because a) ByteDance doesn't need them or their money and b) I'd be surprised if China let them sell such a valuable tool willingly.
This is just protectionism under the guise of national security, plain and simple. We've heard, "oh but national security!!!" countless times before, and if this was truly the main concern, they'd be going after all the other blatantly egregious privacy snoopers as well.
The problem isn't actually just that China takes our data, it's that they control the algorithm on tiktok for what users see, thereby giving them the ability to manipulate the public.
The US is terrified of the public becoming anti capitalist and anti colonialism which is what's happening. THEY want control of the narrative like they've had for decades so they can control the message.
Yeah! And that's only a privilege for white oligarchs! /s
If you have an Amazon account, China already has all your info. This it congress trying to silence pro-palestine protesters and biden mad that TikTok doesn’t like him.
I hope this is challenged in court.
it's definitely not just this, they're mad that one of the biggest social media companies isn't US based, and that they don't have full jurisdiction over them.
Cry harder about Chineae malware?
The important thing is that it lives on American servers first, where the FBI and NSA can get at it.
If it lives on Chinese servers, the CIA have to get involved.
TikTok's American data is already hosted on Oracle servers. Has been for awhile.
They already moved it onto American servers, in 2022.
It already does. They use Oracle for their American data.
You are missing the point. If somebody is gonna profit in any way from US citizens, the US oligarchs want their cut. If it was about controlling information, it would specifically mention about that and what is to be done about it. Making the company be US controlled increases the reach of government on it, yes, but it doesn't gaurantee or enforce it in any way. The thing it gaurantees is where the money will end up.
By the last few days all the trolls stopped even trying to argue this and just went to, "my congressional rep said it's a national security issue! And that abrogates the entire Constitution!"
As usual, when rights are being stripped it's for the protection of the children.