Dear server admins, please defederate threads.net. Dear users, ask your server admin to defederate threads.net.

Yeah dude let’s just federate with an instance maintained by a corporation that has undoubtedly caused a genocide in Myanmar by turning a blind eye to a far-right hate speech group that caused an entire fucking minority to flee into another country.

I don’t get why people are supporting and saying “oh it must be up to the user” like bro this is the company we’re dealing with. Fuck that fuck threads fuck zuckerberg i don’t want his shit cancer near something that’s going well so far.

Excuse me sir, i cant be more agree with you
- me too _
Israel have been successfully pressuring meta to remove and shadow ban accounts sympathetic to Palestinians. The level of censorship is crazy.
- OK, I'll bite. You got something more substantial than "I read it on the internet" to back that up? One reputable source on your accusation? Not sayin' you're lying/wrong, just asking for some verifiable proof.
- I’m not sure if federating will help meta so much as it will definitely (most probably) hurt the lemmy/mastodon network.
  Here’s a similar case that happened before, with the XMPP protocol being coopted by google but eventually killing it in favor of their own proprietary solution:
  https://ploum.net/2023-06-23-how-to-kill-decentralised-networks.html
  Big tech isn’t on our side, and we have to handle outside corporate influence with heavy skepticism.
If they want to hang out with us, they can make an account somewhere other than thread, bam, done!
- If they want to hang out with us, they can make an account somewhere other than thread, bam, done!
  "make another account somewhere" isn't really what federation is about.

please take a look at the replies under zuck's own post in threads.net and determine if that's the type of content you want.

for those who don't want to visit, majority of the commentators are bots. some advertising crypto, and others asking for money.

even if you think you can individually block those accounts, keep in mind the size of threads compared to fediverse.
for Lemmy: monthly active users are barely ~~150K~~40K, while for threads it's 100 million. there's no chance you can control that inflow of bots.

and if it still doesn't convince you, you can read threads' privacy policy, which states that they'll gather all that pii if you interact with their content.

most of the internet is already bigtech, I don't want Lemmy to become another arm of it. though I have faith in my instance maintainer and dessalines, the dev.

Mr @zuck is there any chance of you reading my messages about my request for 2M$ man i have been trying every day to contact you and waiting for your response since last 5 months . I have told you why i am asking you for 2M$ i dont know if you ever read my messages but in short you are the only who can make it happen and if there is someone who can give me 2M$ its only you so please read my messages and please make it happen for us and change our lives I am waiting for you since last 5 months .
Looks like the exact same bullshit as facebook and twitter. There might be better examples of good or bad posting though since Zuckerzuck's posts are especially spammed out, since splammy people think they're especially good for visibility.
- yeah, but I didn't want more brain damage sifting through accounts over there lol. but still, when you have a 100 million mau, there are going to be a ton of bots, especially when there are next to no moderators.
Even if there were no bots and it was only "real" content from Threads ... is that the sort of content we want to have Lemmy flooded with?
- This is dumb gatekeeping nonsense. It's the exact same asshole bullshit behaviour we saw on Reddit when people complained about it getting popular.
  Reddit is far better for reaching a wide audience then it was when it was just a bunch of 20 something nerds in their echo chamber.
I don't really have much faith in the developers myself. Considering all the shenanigans they get upto.
- I do however have real faith in the main developer of lemmy, considering his ideology, which is incompatible with bigtech values.
  you can even see it from his own profile.

lemm.ee already made the decision, based off of the voice of the community to defederate from Threads

Lemmy.Ca admins blocked Threads about 5 months ago: https://lemmy.ca/comment/901551
You can confirm that Threads dot net is still blocked by Lemmy.Ca by going to https://lemmy.ca/instances and clicking on the "Blocked Instances" tab.
- Thanks, I actually forgot that one can check!
  lemmy.dbzer0.com also blocked Threads

"Everyone everywhere should federate."

"Not like that!"

We don't federate with nazi instances either.
Threads has massive homophobic and racist accounts like LibsOnTikTok and MomsForLiberty. We shouldn't federate with an instance that can't even take care of banning that.

Better yet, let them enjoy the full connectivity for a month. Once they've enjoyed all the awesome content and got used to it - defederate.

Comment stolen from user "copygirl" from blahaj.zone:

Looks like they'll be harvesting your data if you follow anyone from Threads, maybe even injecting ads. Unsure what happens to the data of people that get followed by a Threads user. A large part of the fediverse is here precisely because they want to escape corporate meddling, data-hoarding, advertising and other anti-user malpractices. There's a number of people talking about this, here's a recent post that highlights some of the things from their TOS.

How can they possibly steal any data other than what you publicly shared on the internet?
It's not as if something was preventing them from
data-hoarding
and
harvesting your data
here anyway.
So that part about being followed by a Threads user is just a bit stupid.
The danger is in them becoming an integral part of the network where people don't bother to register at a normal instance, and then Meta pulling out and the network remaining half-dead.
Anyone can collect the data anyway, and I'm sure at least one person out there is already harvesting our Fediverse data.
- There's a big difference between some random person and Meta collecting the data.

If anybody remembers XMPP being widespread and what Facebook, Google, Apple and others (say, I personally remember VK and Yandex in Russia supporting it) did to it, that's what will happen if you "wait and see".

EDIT: oh, half the thread is such comments

I remember what the standardising committee did to XMPP: users wanted to share photos, send files, and make audio/video calls; XMPP said "we're not going to standardize that, but each application can use its own extensions"... then it all went to hell.
XMPP is still alive and well, is it not?
- You don't get how big it was in 2007. I used ICQ and felt some sort of peer pressure (and progress pressure) to switch to XMPP. You could chat in FB via XMPP, in VK via XMPP, a lot of services would just give you an XMPP account because why not. It was like RSS.
XMPP was dead on arrival.

For default, they are unfederated in threads.

Also, are you sure you want the mass don't know what the federated web is? We are a low number of users. If we want to me the new standard of internet, we need the people to know what de Fediverse is. And threads can be that first door, and then they can start to spread to other more suitable stances.

I just want to extend the conversation.

For default, they are unfederated in threads.
Do you mean instances have just all unfederated or that it's built into Lemmy itself?
I haven't heard anything on threads in a while so I'm not sure how well it took off but I agree that having something like threads could bring in more users.
Honestly I like the vibe of Lemmy and the fediverse now but I definitely do miss how there was a community for everything.
- A friend of mine made a threads account, and for his account being federated, the need to search in the settings a box of "Want your account to access the fediverse?" and the default is off

Why do you hate user choice so much?

Are we not discussing the choice to defederate? As in most choices, some options are better than others. Sometimes it isn't obvious what the best option is. People discuss and share ideas to make their decision.
We as a community are faced with the choice of whether or not to support threads[.]net. We can think about it individually, or on an instance-by-instance basis - but we can also discuss it collectively. That's whats happening here.
- Defederation is not user choice, it’s decided by the admin of an entire instance.
What a lame take.
Go to their server if you want to or one that don't defederate, or spin one up yourself, the choice is still yours.
I don't want meta to benefit from my server, hosting their biased crap, how about that for a user choice.
- It's your freedom as an admin to block them, but indeed the cost is the freedom of your users to communicate with people on Threads. As a user I would prefer an instance that doesn't restrict my communications in that way.

There's a list of people that have agreed to block it at https://fedipact.online/

Oh jeez how do I turn off all the moving stuff
That site is an assault on my eyes.
- The design convinced me to give meta a chance.

Could threads generate so much data that it costs to much to keep an instance/server running?

In my opinion all big player are just federating to destroy the fediverse or take it over. Why else would they be here? There is just no need for them to be here exept to kill competition before it gets to big.

By all means, fuck Meta to the moon and back, but for goodness' sake, users on federated servers can choose to block the domain with the same result, not to mention that admins can simply restrict it (see social.coop/@eloquence/1115888…). It just isn't so black and white as people are making it seem.

Federation with a bigger platform is realistically the only way for Fedi to become mainstream, and at the moment Meta seems at least to be trying to be communicative. And with their quite unvaluable userbase they really don't have enough leverage against the privacy-concious Fediverse to turn AP into MetaPub. For now.

You're playing the classic "it's the individual responsability" game. It's how you deregulate everything and the consumer losses every right.
We have to acknowledge that we have systemic or/and societal issues. This is a systemic issues so a common thing.

Let users decide because we’re fucking adults.

Great thing about the fediverse
People get to decide what they want from their platform
- Surely you're aware of the embrace, extend, extinguish corporate strategy.
  People only get to decide what they want from their platform until facebook starts extending the spec. Then your client will become incompatible with some posts, and so on and so forth.
  In summary, it's a threat to the platform itself.
- Exactly, I hereby decide that I would like to ignore corporate efforts to undermine this burgeoning new platform. I furthermore reserve the right to complain about the loss of said platform in future years by claiming that it's everyone elses fault for allowing corporate encroachment.
Then go join threads.net? Nobody's stopping you from doing that. That would put you on a server friendly to your beliefs.
Server admins also have opinions, and are not required to take a democratic vote and each individual user's choice into account. They can decide for themselves, and they will, for good or ill. If you don't like where it ends up, your user decision should be to fuck off to threads.
- I don’t want to join a proprietary service, but I want to be able to communicate with people who chose to join it.
- I don't think that's what they're saying.
  They're saying that some users and admins might choose to wait and see
You have the full right to decide, you can switch servers to one that chooses to, or open multiple accounts. That's your choice. This isn't Nostr, in the Fediverse instance blocking is normal and it happens without your input, but you know what does happen with your input? Registering your account on a server that fits your needs best, or as close as possible.
- The above is solvable if you block them I guess, but by default it will completely ruin everything.
  Yes. One minute of a user’s time and all that’s gone.
  Compare that with having to move instances due to admins blocking at the instance level.
This is why I don't understand all the hysteria about this.
If I don't want to see Threads or I don't want Threads to see me, I can go to a Threads account and click "block threads.net".
But obviously that's too complicated and it's easier to just whinge to your instance admin about how Threads federation will be the death of us all. 🙄
- If there was a bot that just flooded All with far right talking points, do you think admins ought to block that or leave it to the users?
  What if it was far right mixed in with cat memes?
  What if it started more slowly like a few posts an hour and then ramped up over 6 months to be 1000s of posts per hour?
Yeah dude let’s just federate with an instance maintained by a corporation that has undoubtedly caused a genocide in Myanmar by turning a blind eye to a far-right hate speech group that caused an entire fucking minority to flee into another country.
I don’t get why people are supporting and saying “oh it must be up to the user” like bro this is the company we’re dealing with. Fuck that fuck threads fuck zuckerberg i don’t want his shit cancer near something that’s going well so far.
- Imagine thinking Myanmar is facebooks fault. Wow.
This. Imagine begging daddy admin to protect you from mean Meta.
- Imagine zucking on Marks schlong.
- You understand that no matter how much you kneel down to service Meta, Zuck the Fuck won't be trickling anything down on you that isn't a bodily fluid, right?
  And hey, I'm not going to kink-shame. Just pointing out that if that isn't your specific kink, you might want to wake up to there being zero dollars trickling down to you.

In favor of defederation. If I start seeing garbage from threads in my feed, I'm switching instances. I don't want Meta pushing their divisive, hateful, misinformation all up in my feeds. Meta will kill fedi. We don't need them.

Yeah. I'll switch to an instance that is defederated from Threads, if mine doesn't.
I left Meta's other properties to avoid state sponsored hate speech. I won't use a platform that gives hate speech a platform.
I don't need to wait to know if Meta will do that. I already know.

Yeah, close that protocol! Build the walls around our garden higher! No need to wait for them to actually do something worth defederating over, we just don't like them!

This is silly. A major social media network is trying to join the Fediverse and everyone's keen on stopping it. If Meta does something dirty or damaging, sure, defederate them then. But I was kind of hoping that open protocols would flourish, not just end up as another bunch of balkanized forums and Reddit-likes.

Ever play Plague Inc? The secret to winning is to not become deadly until you've already become engrained and established throughout society. Then you add the deadly features once you're too deep in.
Don't let the cancer establish itself as something innocent. The owner of the platform WILL take any opportunity to seize control of the media so it can seize control of the message.
I'm sure Meta won't be awful this time! Sure they've been awful quite literally every single chance they've gotten, but they won't be this time!
- I'm not saying they won't. I'm saying there's no reason to defederate preemptively.
I'd be closer to agreeing with you if XMPP didn't completely invalidate your point. They did it there and they'll do it here.
- XMPP works great, you just have to use it. It doesn't invalidate anything.
This IS Facebook. It's guaranteed. They're evil. Block them now.
If you haven't noticed them doing dirty or damaging things for the last twenty years, feel free to engage with them.
There's more than enough evidence to show their intentions are far from pure.
- How are we supposed to do that when people like you are encouraging admins to defederate which removes any semblance of freedom of choice that you are fucking trying to imply we act upon?
If you like meta so much, why are you here?
- I don't like Meta. Why do you assume everyone has to be on one "team" or the other? I'm in favor of open protocols and open protocols can be used by anyone. Even if you don't like them.

This is the way.

Why not just let them choose instead of trying to get users to brigade them? Personally I want my insurance federated with Threads.

If anything meta integrates here I'm out.

Let's not defederate from every corporate player. Some of them can probably respect reasonable rules of civility.

But fuck Meta. We already know how this plays out.

We know there's a huge wave of hatred and misinformation incoming. We've seen it on their other platforms.

There was an interesting paired poll done, asking about federation with Threads and federation with Tumblr.
66% of people were wary of or actively opposed federating with Threads. Fewer than 20% were wary of or actively opposed federating with Tumblr.
It's not "defederate from every corporate player". It's passing this message on to Meta:

And another attempt at blanket hating on a platform for no reason. Be more original, people.

Edit: if YOU don't like it, sure block it. But don't force your backwards decision on everyone else.

@mypasswordis1234 I mean, what is the point in defederating while being in a Lemmy instance? You cannot interact with microblog while using #Lemmy. The only thing that comes to my mind is that threads users will not be able to comment on a lemmy post or comment, but let's be honest, the way communities will probably federate to #threads (the same way it is today with mastodon) is not good, thus reducing the amount of attraction a lemmy post can get over there.

For some weird reason in the implementation of the AP protocol, lemmy posts are seems as just a link on mastodon, the replies are complete though. If someone understand this better and wants to explain, feel free to do it.

For some weird reason in the implementation of the AP protocol, lemmy posts are seems as just a link on mastodon, the replies are complete though.
ActivityPub allows two post formats, Notes and Articles. Articles support titles and therefore posts on Lemmy and threads on /kbin use them, while notes do not and are therefore used for microblogging and commenting. Currently Mastodon's article federation only goes so far as linking the post for content, and to be honest I'm doubtful whether Threads will federate Articles at all given their carefulness with federation.

I want a server where users can make these decisions for themselves.

Fuck this mob-mentality spurred upon by losers.

no one cares if you leave. literally no one.

Short-sighted advice from people who don't understand the purpose of ActivityPub.

Yes allowing corps into the Fediverse is very short-sighted.
- It wasn't a roll-call.

Well, I said before I'll leave any servers that federate with Meta, and it's looking like that time.

I think we should let meta federated to the fediverse until they try to influence it or integrate ads in posts or something else that can hurt the fediverse

How to kill a decentralized network (such as the fediverse)

I'd personally at least give them a chance. Defederating is a pretty easy process and can be performed at any point in time. At least some Threads users may as well get to know about Lemmy and switch to it.

Upd: yes I do understand many people don't trust Meta and neither do I. But I also understand lots and lots of users here are using anonymous accounts, and federation information is already public to begin with. Combining the fact that Fediverse may gain more than it may lose, including more users, original content, recognition and etc, I generally think it's worth the risk. I am generally content with any decision, just sharing my two pennies of thought.

I hate Zuck and Facebook as much as the next person, but I think the rollout is going slowly enough that we don’t need to fight about it yet.

The discussion is important and needs to be had, but it’s premature.

Everywhere this pops up, the users have decided:
Fuck meta. Fuck threads. Fuck the zuck.
Do not associate. Defederate now
- Just block their domain, no need to take away the freedom of other users even if you hate Meta.
The best case scenario of letting Meta in is neutrality. Far more likely is then actively destroying stuff. Remember, their motto is move fast and break things
- So what are they going to do?
  The whole "Oh they'll microsoft it!"-narrative is clearly false already. As plenty people said the last time someone posted that sensationalist "how to kill the fediverse" (or so) blog post already, this is not about Meta trying to "kill" the fediverse. If anything, the opposite. This is them Mozilla-ing it, using it as a defense against new regulations. They can even point to instances defederating en masse as "See? We tried! They're all blocking us, so it's not our fault this cross-compatibility isn't working." and then in the future use that as a defense against further attempts to open up walled gardens. They tried, the supposedly "open" side actively blocked it, now the other side has to move before they try again.
  People misunderstand the actually extremely obvious reason they're doing this. There's also an easy reason they're dragging their feet so much: They don't want to. But they have to. So they promise they'll federate, actively hope they get blocked (see above), and only actually do it last-second to avoid issues with new legislation.

If I don't like it I won't look at it, simple as.

What exactly is "pushing their crap"? Chances are it will be more moderated and less arbitrary than what passes through from some lemmy instances. Hatred and misinformation? Harvesting your data? Like this isn't already a factor with lemmy? In the Fediverse, we have admins who flagrantly break their own TOS. Plus it seems to me this is an opportunity for lemmy to get advertisement at Threads' expense.

Better yet, I'll request the admin specifically to federate with Threads, so that I can move across the stuff that I care about to mbin from the Threads app.

People are overreacting.

No we're not. Read up on what happened to xmpp. Google joined it, made the service much slower for people not on their servers, everybody joined their servers, they shut their service down for their own proprietary stuff.
Edit: https://ploum.net/2023-06-23-how-to-kill-decentralised-networks.html
- Embrace
  Extend
  Extinguish
Just because you have no experience, you think it's overreacting.
- Compared to you who has so much experience with threads joining the fediverse.
I really don't think that's the case.
This is a nice little place, meta barging in Will fuck it all up
- They aren't barging in. You need to follow the threads user. Only on mastodon are they "barging in".

How about users make decisions for themselves and block Threads if they want?

Threads' size will unaviodably disrupt the Fediverse if they federate fully, regardless their intentions. I think the appropriate approach is making interaction opt-in, like social.coop does: https://social.coop/@eloquence/111588877096843391
Why not just let the serial killer psychopath hang out in the mall, if people don't want to hang out with them they don't have to.
I think the issue here is users data will be on threads server which god knows how it will be used. To train AI? To target ads ? Nobody knows so better everyone block threads and keep internet safe as these companies have destroyed internet.
- Public Mastodon posts are already indexed by search engines.
This is the way.

I haven't defederated anyone yet, I don't intend to defederated from Instagrams new failed Twitter clone.

I can kinda see the point, but also without providing actual reasons, this post just seems like a LARP.

I got a reason! It's because people are afraid meta is doing what Microsoft did to a much earlier project. The crux of that whole story is that Microsoft adopted the new tech, became the biggest player thus dominating the area, then, when they had full control of the tech they ended up shutting it down. Some people are convinced meta is going to do that to the fediverse.
This is vague and handwavy, I'm hoping someone actually knows the name of the project. It was early 90s I believe or maybe into the early 00s but it was before my time in the tech sphere of the internet.

Okay. I’ve seen stuff like this on both mastodon, and here, but i haven’t heard about them doing anything that would actually harm the fediverse. I guess i don’t know what the problem is. I know they’ve got a negative reputation, and for good reason, but isn’t that the awesome part of threads being federated? We can follow and connect to people there without being part of their system, and therefor not susceptible to their bs? If I’m missing something please fill me in.

People are concerned because there were examples of such things going horribly wrong, most notably with Google and XMPP.
Way back in the day, Google announced that its Talk messenger will support XMPP, which made decentralization fans very happy - finally, they can communicate with everyone from the comfort of their decentralized instance!..oh.
Google started implementing features in Talk that are incompatible with XMPP, and then dropped XMPP support altogether, ending up deprecating Talk in favor of Google-only Hangouts. This forced many XMPP users to get into Google's ecosystem, since the people they contacted through XMPP were mostly just using Google Talk, and they couldn't be contacted through XMPP any more. As a result, XMPP became worse off than it started and got practically forgotten by all but 1,5 nerds who keep it alive.
now most of their contacts were in defederated Google to which they now didn't have access.
It is inevitable that Meta will try to kill the fediverse while chasing profits, there is no other possibility in their endgame.
If that is pushing ads into other instances or killing those instances entirely we don’t know yet but it will happen.
It has to because the shareholders must always have more.
- I just don’t think it’s possible for something to kill the fediverse. And if it is possible, then it is a flaw in the design of the fediverse and needs to be fixed.

rude ..

Defederation is cancer and it will kill Fediverse faster than any Meta.

Millions of Facebook users outnumbering previous users 100 to 1 will kill it. Oh, there'll be more activity than ever, but it will be a sanitised corporate safe space for advertisers, where millions of normies argue about politics, with misinformation and ads sprinkled throughout.
- That's called growth. Or do you want to keep Lemmy exclusive for marginals?
Exactly cuz threads will lure a lot of people in the fediverse after the fediverse gets even more accessible and for all means more recognition than we can think about defederating threads.
Ability to choose with whom to federate with is a core concept of the Fediverse
If you don't want any defederation, join an instance that doesn't do it.
- No, that's not a core concept of Fediverse, that's exactly the opposite. You want echo chambers? There are plenty of them already. It should be the user who decides what content to see and with which instances to interact, not instance admins.
  Imagine Chrome not allowing you to visit specific sites and then Firefox not allowing you to visit a different set of sites. That would be a death of the web.
On the contrary, defederation is vital to the health of the network. Choosing which instances to not interact with, like far-right groups and hate speech groups, allows users to focus on reasonable content on their home server.
The instance should also be transparent on which instances they defederate with so occasionally the user can venture out into the wild west and see other instances and their points of view.
- That causes fragmentation of the network, which in turn will kill Fedi over time.

Too bad people on mastodon don't have the ability to block an instance they find objectionable for themselves-- oh wait.

Not sure about Lemmy, but we can do this on mastodon. I don't need someone else deciding for me.

Tldr? Couldn't disagree more

lemmy very recently got this feature.
I agree, I don't want a blanket ban on Threads. I know Meta is a horrible company, but we shouldn't decide in advance.
Honestly, I'd be very happy to be able to follow people on Threads through my privacy-respecting Mastodon/Lemmy app. Because, let's be serious: we're just a bunch of nerds here. If I want to follow famous people or companies, I'm going to find them on Meta's platforms, not here.
ActivityPub lets me follow those accounts without using Meta's apps, which are famously riddled with ads, trackers and whatnot.
- why do you want to follow famous people and companies

If Kbin defederates from Threads, I'll just leave Kbin, and stay with Threads. Defederating over vibes is not how the fediverse is supposed to operate. And for everyone advocating for this dumb idea, I'm just using this thread as a honey pot.

fediverse isn't supposed to have most users concentrated in one instance also
Big tech is a cancer on the internet. It makes sense to avoid it.
I’m pretty clear that meta has more problems than “vibes”.
Once they can interact with your account, they can pull your data into their server and analyzing it to deliver ads campaign.
- How would they get the data? Federation doesn’t mean that they will get full access to your account.
Bye felicia.
Please let the door hit you in the ass on the way out