Six teenagers in court over beheading of French teacher

Reuters – Bias and Credibility

Bias Rating: Least Biased

 Factual Reporting: Very High

 Country: United Kingdom

 MBFC’s Country Freedom Rank: Mostly Free

 Media Type: News Agency

 Traffic/Popularity: High Traffic

 MBFC Credibility Rating: High Credibility

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Methodology

Good bot! I like this shit
- Media Bias Fact Check is only considered "reliable" because people use it. The actual authors of the site lack any real credentials for evaluating factuality, nevermind bias.
I prefer to use Ad Fontes site. I find it through most accurate source.
https://adfontesmedia.com/interactive-media-bias-chart/
- Seems like another valuable resource! Glad to have another source to help evaluate what I read.
  Some of the "Overall Scores" from Ad Fontes seem odd to me, but still pretty good. I think most of the articles they evaluate are user-submitted, and that might skew their scores as it's not a random sampling. I would choose to weigh articles in a differently, but that's just my personal opinion and it doesn't negate the benefit.
  Specifically, I would point out the "Individual Content Sample Scores" vs the "Overall Score" for Al Jazeera as an oddity. https://adfontesmedia.com/al-jazeera-bias-and-reliability/ In my opinion, Al Jazeera has a lot of good reporting, but also has a strong bias that effects their overall credibility. I still like reading them, but I wish they would remain more focused on objective facts rather than opinion.

Maybe these people would be happier moving to a country where their religion is forced down from the government? Maybe go there?

You’re incompatible with western society so change or get the fuck out.

And before anyone jumps down my throat I’m speaking specifically of those who don’t accept that things like freedom of speech includes things they don’t like.

They are here to expand their religion, not for escaping their country or freedom of speech. They are using freedom of speech to make themselves a victim while expanding their religion in the back.
freedom of speech includes blatant disrespect of a religion you're not a part of, got it
- You can't have freedom of speech without the freedom to offend. They go hand in hand.
- Yes, 100%.
  I really can't tell if you're being serious. Just in case...
  The prophet Muhammad was a real piece of shit etc etc etc.
  See? I'm allowed to do that. Thankfully I live somewhere I don't have to be in fear of saying things like that.
- Whatever your religion is buddy it can choke on all of my cock
- religion is a choice and that choice is killing people its ok to be disrespectful to public practicers of religion.
  we should be laughing in their faces and mocking them because its embarassing

Seems like a fair and reasonable response to a cartoon.

The religion of peace strikes again.

Religion of love!

Religion ruins everything. Also here is a painting of Mohammed

Nothing to add, just thought a cock n balls would improve it, seeing as he was a pedo
- seeing as he was a pedo
  I'm no scholar. An example of this please?
- Did we just become best friends?
- This is annoying.
fuck mohammed, peace be upon him
That breaks the 2nd Commandment!
- Don't worry, his gun is just out of frame.

Islam is so touchy. Even pointing out Mohammed was a bandit and a pedophile gets them going and that is just straight facts anyone can get from reading about his life.

Religious extremists are the touchy ones. Plenty of Muslim folks who go on with their lives in peace.
I do agree that islamist extremists are the worst.
- Yeah, at the most, the Muslims in my life would've said "hey I find that disrespectful can you please not" and go about their day.
- To be honest, the Nationalist Christians (Nat-C’s) that we have here at home are pretty fucking unsettling. They know that it’s their god-given right to be in charge of everything and they will “save” everyone by trying to force their twisted interpretation of religious texts onto the populace with zero compromise, because “that’s god’s plan”.
  They’re just as bad as Islamic extremists; they’re just committing their violence in more official channels and in a slower fashion, up until the day that they manage to get an unshakable hold on power (read: establish a “theocratic” dictatorship, like the Republic of Gilead from Handmaid’s Tale, which they took as an aspirational goal instead of a cautionary story).
- In Europe there are more Muslim refugees though, than, for example, in North America which gets more regular Muslim immigrants.
  It's a specific problem in Europe with an influx of refugees from war torn and poor countries who are often troubled, more extreme in their religion and potentially less educated (because they fled from shitty countries).
  I guess it's more connected to those circumstances than with Islam in itself. Statistically, more educated and better off people are less religious. I suspect that's the same with Muslims?!
- You don't get to say "some Muslims are in peace". Muslims are part of a religion that is causing a lot of troubles.
  When someone is part of a big organization, like the police, one does not get to say "not all of us are pigs". If they are not raising their hand and telling on the shitty people causing problems, then everyone is the problem.
They’re cowards is what they are. Plain and simple.
I believe every extremist is touchy. Fuck religion!
- You know you don't need to virtue signal "all religions!" in a thread specifically about islamist terrorism, right? Do the "all religion" thing when it's a christian, sikh, buddhist, etc. sawing the head off a school teacher in the street.

all religions are cancer. ALL. period. I can criticise any fanatic of any religion the same way I criticise the fanatics of the religion I grew up and was brainwashed to follow. I was able to leave. For some people it may be more difficult because of the situation in their country. However, the people who migrate in mostly atheistic west countries, they continue being fanatics by choice.

However, the people who migrate in mostly atheistic west countries, they continue being fanatics by choice.
There are Arabs who migrate to Europe because they're not allowed not express their disbelief in their home countries.
- yes, you're very correct on that. I failed to write it in a way that gives space for exclusions. I wanted to write something like "from the people who migrate in mostly atheistic (or at least less religious) countries, when they continue being fanatics in their religion, then this decision is by choice". Because they are now in a place that if they want to get rid of that culture, it is easier to do it.
  Sure, there are people who migrate because they want to leave from the oppression they experience in their home countries and they decide to follow a completely different lifestyle but these are not the majority. But they surely exist.

It was a class lesson on freedom of speech… oh gee.

In a way he was an amazing teacher

Sad little cowards can’t live in a free world where people can have their own thoughts on belief.

i'd just like to comment on this comment section

since i've joined lemmy some months ago i've seen the nuanced discussion i was so relieved and happy to find here degrading. this section ilustrates that well. the nuanced and cautious are still there, but are being briganded against in a way i don't think they were before

maybe i'm sounding like an "eternal september" elitist here, but i do like open discussions on the internet, with all the ugliness that's bound to happen. i just really hope with all my heart that, in the midst of it all, the good things don't go away

There is no nuanced discussion on this topic, as there is only 1 correct reaction, within which any degree of outrage is justified.
- Well I think he or she is referring to the "all religion is bad" arguments that are nothing about this particular case, which I agree that there is only 1 correct reaction here which is condemning this act.
When you have a significant number of people on the internet that are here simply to poison dialogue "for the lulz" or whatever other bullshit reason they use, this is how it will always end up.
- I like to use this discussions to expand my blocklist. They call themselves out rather unambiguously in this sort of topics.
Lemmy turned into another reddit overnight when reddit killed third-party apps. On the one hand it makes it easier to ditch reddit entirely, but I do really miss what the community was in the years before that happened.
- Agreed, but I still feel it's better than Reddit. It depends on the instance and community, of course, but assholery is far less tolerated here. At least in my experience. I do miss the pre-Reddit exodus days, though.
  Also, if you haven't been on Reddit lately, it's really bad now. Definitely worse than before.
- Yea it's really sad that this community didn't have a long period of fewer interactions with higher quality comments. It regressed to the mean very quickly.

This is the best summary I could come up with:

PARIS, Nov 27 (Reuters) - Six teenagers go on trial behind closed doors on Monday, accused of involvement in the beheading of French history teacher Samuel Paty by a suspected Islamist in 2020 in an attack that struck at the heart of the country's secular values.

The teacher had shown his pupils cartoons of the Prophet Mohammad in a class on freedom of expression, angering a number of Muslim parents.

One of the minors is a 15-year-old girl who allegedly told her parents that Paty had shown caricatures of the prophet in her class.

Paty, 47, was killed outside his school in a Paris suburb by an 18-year-old assailant, born in Russia of Chechen origin, who was shot dead by police soon after the attack.

France is home to Europe's largest Muslim minority and has suffered a wave of attacks by Islamist militants or their sympathisers in past years.

In the wake of Paty's killing, some teachers acknowledged they censored themselves to avoid confrontation with pupils and parents over religion and free speech.

The original article contains 293 words, the summary contains 173 words. Saved 41%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

When I was in high school I screamed in the middle of biology class "those are not gonads, those are balls!". I still feel bad about it because the teacher was so nice and I was a nightmare.

I feel a bit better.

I'm sorry what? 2.5 years? Is that a joke? Those animals should never set foot outside prison walls again no matter their age.

Did you just read the headline and get outraged without pausing for even a second to think "2.5 years for murder and mutilation can't be right, I better read the article"?
The five other minors to be prosecuted, aged between 14 and 15 at the time of the attack, will be charged with premeditated criminal conspiracy, or ambush.
They are suspected of having pointed out Paty to the murderer or helped monitor his exit from the school.
They weren’t involved in the killing, they are guilty of pointing him out.
- So they were responsible for it
- So? They are still responsible for his death
These kids haven't killed anyone. A weird guy told them who is the teacher who's insulted Muhamad, here is 300 EUR, I'll teach him to not do it again
They couldn't guess what was about to happen, and now live with the guilt and trauma which is a worse sentence than any jail time
- You’re presuming a state of mind, just as the other people you’re arguing against are. We don’t know if they regret it or not and never will.
They are not the perpetrators, and were kids at the time. Kids are easily influenced, and make mistakes, a lot of them.
In this case those mistakes ended up causing the gruesome death of an innocent teacher, that is why they are on trial. If someone is guilty, it is their parents, who failed to educate them, and those who exploited those weaknesses to put them under their influence.
- They are not the perpetrators, and were kids at the time. Kids are easily influenced, and make mistakes, a lot of them.
  Im sorry but my mistakes as a kid were breaking windows not beheading people.
- Kids are easily influenced, and make mistakes, a lot of them.
  And adults aren't? Tired of this nonsense that people reach a certain age and all of a sudden they can tell right from wrong.
  Were you one of those kids who couldn't tell right from wrong? I wasn't, and neither were most of my peers. It's a cultural issue, not an age one.
- Let those of us who weren’t involved in a religiously charged murder cast the first stone.
  Wait…

upvoted solely because the timestamp, we should have that on all the news posts

Lotta fucing dumbasses in here, don't bother...

*fucking
- 🙏

Really don't know what to make of this comments section. I feel like if this were the World News subreddit, this thread would have already been locked and about 90% of the commenters banned, either by the mods or the Reddit admins.

It's surreal to see comments so hostile towards Islam, on Lemmy of all places... And some of these are arguments I often see racists throw around.

- Jut like Christianity and Judaism.
- How many beheadings have there been, versus the number of Muslim people who have ever lived?
Last time I was at world news there were people calling refugees "hordes wanting to destroy our culture" and they had hundreds of upvotes
- I was banned from the subreddit three years ago for criticizing Saudi Arabia's treatment of women. Because apparently the line "and other states with strict interpretation of Sharia law" was considered bigotry.

Please, teach me how free speech is okay and murder wrong! Cpt. Obvious we need you now!

This is terrible news. Obviously no one needs to be killed for such a thing.

Still, I can't help but thing it's also ridiculous to draw pictures of Muhammad. No one knows what he looks like. These people just use Islamophobia to post racist caricatures.

Also, Muslims love their prophet more than most people I know love their mothers. THIS IS NOT TO EXCUSE THEIR BEHAVIOR but seriously Muslims view their prophet like a big brother. Like literally love the guy like family. There's 2 billion Muslims. You only have to really anger one or two to get attacked. Once again, not an excuse for them. This is murder.

This is a thing in France, we have caricatures for everything. Muhammed isn't an exception, and shouldn't be. It's not islamophobia. This was a freedom of expression class too, it should be talking about controversial topics.
- A forum moderator used to post the Charlie Hebdo caricatures when I used to use a very specific Linux distributions. I never said anything about it but my first thought is that is an extremely RACIST way to draw an Arab. Though I am interested in what you are saying. Could you give me examples of controversial caricatures involving other religious minorities or even some of French people to try to grasp the idea?
Thank you for trying to explain. I don't like it but I appreciate you typing it out. Despite this, I still can't wrap my head around how a, as you say, racist caricature can rationally warrant a brutal murder in response. Someone making fun of my mother or brother would not elicit such a reaction from me. When the reaction is so extremely out of proportion with the crime and we hear these explanations why this makes sense, the religion and it's followers who feel such a way become their own caricature. Even without the cartoons.
Do they hope to elicit fear and respect? Because this sort of psychopathy from any social group does the opposite. Respectfully, there is a difference between condemning such an act full stop, and disagreeing with what they did but still thinking it makes sense and people shouldn't do things that force such an action. The later is what leads Western countries to conclude Islam is incompatible in societies that have, perhaps, once held such a worldview, but in the last thousand years have collectively agreed that is no longer allowed.
You claim only one or two may attack... but holding the same mindset as the killers is still not compatible with Western ideals. I can think someone is an idiot who is going to hell, but that should be the extent of my involvement in their life and the rest is between them and God.
- Once again, I want to reiterate that this is a crime and I'm not trying to excuse their behavior.
  This isn't one guy making fun of your mother. The sheer of scale is much greater. This is why I don't think this is some grand plan to elicit fear from the French. This was six angry teenagers committing murder on a target picked out ahead of time.
  It's not about logic and ideals. It's more of a matter of heart. Perhaps the solution isn't one of laws but just teaching people to cope with anger better AND to deescalate a lot of the recent problems in France.
No one knows what he looks like.
My understanding is that the point is that he's supposed to be an "every man" kinda guy. Mohammad could be any of us. If you depict him, it makes us not him.
So apparently he's also a gang of murderous psycho teens. Or I guess the kids stopped being him once they saw the picture and reverted into psycho murderers
- Personally, I don't think this makes any sense. There is so much recordings of his actions and his sayings that a specific personality can be inferred. I think I played enough RPGs to understand what an "every man" is supposed to be.