Pentagon independently concluded Islamic Jihad responsible for hospital blast

I just want to respectfully remind everyone that just because this tragedy was likely not perpetrated by Israel, it does not mean they are absolved of any of the hundreds of war crimes they have already committed.

- I mean, Isreal bombed that same hospital 2 days earlier, was conducting bombing campaigns in the area, ordered the evacuation of the hospital less than 24 hours before, and kept changing their story around it. It was a pretty fair assumption that it was them until more evidence was produced.
- You know multiple groups of people can be wrong at the same time right
They killed multiple journalists earlier this week and killed at least 6 in a strike on a school and this hospital debacle has drowned all of that out.
Can we hold hamas (and palestine for giving them a holdout) for their war crimes, or is your logic only one-way?
- No, people here are incapable of thinking in anything other than black-and-white
- Yeah, because condemning one side means you cant condemn the other...
Yeah, is there any place in southern Gaza that isn't packed full of the people they told to move there from the north for 'safety'?
- You rather they stay on top of the Hamas terror tunnels Israel is targeting? Hamas would like that.

The problem I have with this narrative isn't who dropped the bomb. Tbh they're probably right it was a Palestinian missile. It's the sheer audacity for all these western countries to be shocked and say let's figure this out, as Israel just dropped like 6000 bombs in 6 days. They're worried about one bomb but not the 6000 others, cause ya know, those were killing only Hamas and not injured people in a hospital /s.

While the Muslim world looks on in horror at more bombing in a conflict that has been going on for decades, the western world is focused on insignificant details. Who carried out what attack. Who dropped what bomb. Which act is more morally reprehensible. None of this solves the problem of a displaced people. Only the US can pressure Israel to accept a two state solution. That's the only peaceful solution possible for this conflict imo. The other solution is to wipe out Gaza and the West Bank and everyday we're getting closer to that.

The western world is focused on insignificant details. Who carried out what attack. Who dropped what bomb. Which act is more morally reprehensible. None of this solves the problem of a displaced people
Misinformation on the scale of "a building was destroyed that clearly is still intact" deserves focus. If they'll lie about shit that can be confirmed with a tiny bit of research, what else is getting exaggerated?
I don't know, most of the papers in the UK led with a front page item on how Israel had killed 500 people by bombing a hospital. So if that wasn't actually true, it's quite important.
- I doubt that Rishi Sunak speak correctly.
  This is the most global headline nơw.
  If you have a little deep heart inside, you can think twice. See what difference between two sides. Who is support Israel, the world's most powerful militaries that every country don't want take risk to war with. Then, who is support Palestine. There is many country but still behind.
  The latest statistics on the Israel-Palestine conflict as of October 19, 2023, are as follows:
  Gaza: Killed: At least 3,478 Injured: Over 12,065 Occupied West Bank: Killed: At least 69 Injured: More than 1,300 Israel: Killed: At least 1,403 Injured: At least 3,800
  These figures have been reported by the Palestinian health ministry, Palestine Red Crescent Society, and Israeli Medical Services. Please note that these numbers are subject to change as the situation evolves.
  And what the trembling moments 1 child killed in Gaza every hour. Precisely more than that. 😥
  When 12 of The Council drafted a statement calling for a ceasefire on Wednesday, but the statement was vetoed by the US. WHAT THE F***
  Millions of lives hang in the balance, including the 2.3 million civilians half of whom are children in Gaza civilians in Israel, and Jews and Muslims around the world.
  I can write more but let just world knows who is the really war criminal.
  You don't have to be Muslim to support Palestine 🇵🇸 ... you just have to be HUMAN ... 😥
A two-state-solution doesn't work in part because extremist Muslim groups want the are to be purely Muslim. They would continue to attack Israel with terror tactics, Like they did from the start. What is your solution to that?
- Swap Muslim with Jewish and Israel with Palestine and it's the same problem... to be clear I think both are true but it's kinda weird to single one out.
- There isn't a solution and just to be clear proto Israelis take part in a civilian bombing campaign inside of mandatory Palestine because they also do not believe any other religion should exist.
  If you're going to paint a picture don't just throw shade at one when both deserve it.
The reason for the focus is that it was deliberately being used in a disinformation campaign. Were that not the case, I think you're right that it would have faded into the background noise as just one bomb among 6000 others.
- It's almost like they went through two attempts to end their people in a twenty-ish year period of time.
Part of the problem is that Hamas won't accept a two state solution, either. The people in power on both sides have made it clear that they want the other eradicated. If Hamas and the Israeli government were to disappear then maybe that could happen, but even then there is so much deep rooted hatred amongst those populations for them to realistically live in relative peace while being in such close proximity to each other.
I don't honestly know of a great solution besides Israel replacing their government, and the ultra nationalistic conservative half of the Gaza strip moving out, or vice versa.
I like your take. Most actors involved in this conflict have tunnel vision and that will only lead to more violence.
Even some victims of Hamas' violence are calling on TV for reflection instead of seeking revenge. Revenge only feeds a never-ending cycle of violence with no end in sight. Israel's Government will have to own up to having allowed/encouraged Hamas with the single purpose of derailing two-state efforts and that has failed horribly.
People "fighting for their homeland" rarely just give up. And you've got two sides who earnestly believe they're doing just that.
There's no peace here. Northern Ireland managed it, but the body counts and level of violence aren't even remotely comparable. It took Israel and Palestine about a week to blow through what The Troubles took 40 years to kill.
Each time it kicks off we in the West wonder how we could solve it. We can't. It's not our problem to fix. We certainly had a hand in making it but it's an impossible tangle of blood, bodies and beliefs that nobody can undo.
The world's media looks on but we're mostly just rubbernecking. Few of us have any skin in the game. Takes our mind off our own shit countries I suppose.
- There is no two sides. One foreign people wanted another people's land, and they used some past ancestry / religious fanaticism / racism to commit atrocities in the process of stealing the land.
  Burying the Nakba: How Israel Systematically Hides Evidence of 1948 Expulsion of Arabs
  Classified Docs Reveal Massacres of Palestinians in '48 – and What Israeli Leaders Knew
  When former IDF soldiers and Holocaust survivors take a firm anti-Zionist stance, it's probably because the Zionist side is shit.
  Breaking the Silence is also an Israeli organization composed of IDF veterans giving testimonies such as the IDF using ambulances to conceal combatants or using human shields.
- Even now, my brain won't ever wrap its head around modern countries like Ireland and N. Ireland feeling the need for things like "peace walls" between neighbors.
  Your comment sums up a lot of my feelings: a true peace can't be forced from the outside. It's way too complicated and emotional for simplistic shit. And you can see it in the comments around here too. Everyone's wrapped up in intense anger, blame, and reciting the litany of past horrors as justification for new ones.
- Also worth saying that the two sides in Northern Ireland, although originally sundered on the basis of sectarian religion, still shared a suite of cultural commonalities inasmuch as they were all basically from Ireland and the British Isles and had similarly bad teeth, cock-eyed inbred ugliness together with a generalized dislike of anyone perceived as an outsider, but.
- In fairness, most of the people in Gaza have been born and raised in an era where the strip is their homeland. They've never experienced a settlement, they've been ruled by Palestinians their whole lives and the borders were the same as the 1967 ones.
Or, you know, a solution that isn't imposed by western colonialists, maybe? But by the sovereign people that inhabit the region?
https://www.youtube.com/live/Iir51O3JMqc
Otherwise, I agree with everything you said.
- It really doesn't matter what you call them or how you feel about it, Israel is in the position to call the shots and the US is their most influential ally on this. Israel isn't going to magically go the peaceful route without external pressure, and you have to be fucking joking to think they care what Palestinians care.
- Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
  https://www.piped.video/live/Iir51O3JMqc
  Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
  I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
- what makes you think anything would change if nobody did anything? of course there needs to be an external pressure to change something about the situation. otherwise israel will just keep on decimating palestine population and it will end with a singular state. is that what you want?

He was asked on the street by a random reporter.
His quote includes "likely"
For the last couple years Bidens off the cuff remarks haven't exactly been reliable.

Yet people are treating this as an official stance of the US Government...

I’ll take what the president says as the stance of the US government, and I don’t think that’s remotely unreasonable…
If he’s making mistakes with off the cuff remarks, then he needs to stop making off the cuff remarks.
- I’ll take what the president says as the stance of the US government
  It's certainly more likely to be the correct way if looking at it than it was a few short years ago.
- Well, the president is stopping short of saying it was Hamas yet, so there you go.
- Biden's been making stupid off the cuff remarks since the 80s, it's practically what he's known for.
"Iraq has WMD's" is a similar statement, backed by an entire administration, that also led to unnecessary deaths.
Its a political statement, because if Israel did attack the hospital, then that's another outright war crime right after Israel was threatened by Jordan, Lebanon, and Iran.
Uh, did you miss this part?
Two U.S. officials told ABC News the Pentagon independently concluded
- The embedded tweet:
  While we continue to collect information, our current assessment, based on analysis of overhead imagery, intercepts and open source information, is that Israel is not responsible for the explosion at the hospital in Gaza yesterday.
  So the investigation isn't concluded, there might not have even been an official investigation, and all they're saying is Israel "isn't responsible".
  None of what OPs headline claims.
- Wow shocker the pentagon is defending its close partner in the war. Ill beleive them when they actually release evidence not just "The pentagon said so."
He was asked on the street by a random reporter.
Out of anything this is the strangest complaint. Why wouldn't he answer a street reporter?
- Because Biden's biggest fans have spent years defending his misspeaking by saying his stutter makes him get words mixed up when he's randomly asked questions...
  So when he's stopped to get asked a random question, we need to wait a day or two to see if that's what he really meant to say, or if his stutter made him somehow say the wrong words again.

Both of those estimates come from Hamas sources (well the 1000 people one IDK where you got that from).
JFC people you can criticize Israel without gobbling up a terrorist organization's fat propaganda dick. For now we just have no way to know how many people died in that hospital. Find another war crime to criticize Israel for, they're not that hard to come by.

I don't consider the Pentagon to be a reliable source for information when they have a vested interest in the conflict. Remember when they said Saddam Hussain had "weapons of mass destruction" which was used to justify the Iraq invasion? Well there never were any. The Pentagon manufactured that disinformation, and media parroted it like loyal puppets.

Yeah why are people believing this? I'm sure someone will quietly peddle it back just like they did with the "40 beheaded babies" lie. This is blatant information warfare.
What vested interest does the DoD have in this conflict?
- The US State Department has a long-standing strong alliance with the Israelis. Billions of dollars of weaponry is sold to the Israeli military yearly, with a direct profit for the US defense industry.
- Same as any other conflict.. maintain the interests of US govt. and by extension rich oligarchs who have the house and Senate in their pockets.

This reads like: "we investigated ourselves and found we did nothing wrong"...

Yeah, the CIA famously never lies about this stuff on behalf of their country's military interests!

Pentagon. The security agency of the country vetoing ceasefire agreement in the UN security council, in favour of Israel attacks.

Independently of whom, exactly?

We have investigated ourselves and found nothing suspicious.

I mean. Fuck both. But fuck Hamas more.

Nah, fuck both is enough. I will never support jihadists and I will never support apartheid states.
I'll drink to that.

Is Islamic Jihad distinct from Hamas?

Yes, you can usually find it abbreviated as PIJ and supposedly has ties to Iran
It is a different group. How much they align with each other and/or cooperate, I do not know.
- Hamas is the closest thing to a real government that Palestine has. Hamas has stated a willingness to accept a 2 state solution, they used to want all the land back but now they just want peace. Some countries like NZ take the time to differentiate between Hamas (not terrorists, political arm) and Qassam Brigades (the terrorist military arm of Hamas).
  As far as I have read PIJ is just terrorist who wanna kill all Israelis.

you mean the hospital parking lot?

The video seems pretty clear tbh. An aircraft dropping bombs would be quite loud, and a missile would be visible.

Which video was this?

Colin Powell has entered the chat.

I haven't seen anything personally convincing, there's a photo of a pothole that's supposed to prove something I guess?
And the US government has a long and costly history of making up accusations against Arab Muslims.
- I'm not sure if you've seen the videos released by IDF of them bombing Gaza, but those bombs literally bring down entire buildings. They're massive. If one like that fell on the hospital parking lot there would be a huge hole in the ground and the buildings around would be obliterated. Also if it was JDAM it would not have hit the parking lot unless for some reason that's what they were targeting. It's a guided bomb unlike the unguided rockets Hamas is using. JDAMs are accurate to 10 meters or so.
He been stroking it from the hallway

If anyone made it as far as the third sentence in the article, they might notice that "Islamic Jihad" in the title refers to "Palestinian Islamic Jihad".

They're not blaming Hamas for this incident. PIJ is a separate organisation.

US have always been Israel's ambassador. Nothing new here.

Ah, if the CIA says it's true, I'm sure they're neutral and definitely not trying to push an agenda. The CIA famously never lies about the military capabilities of organisations against US interests.

Seriously, you all fucking believe this? Shame on you all for your lack of pattern recognition skills.

The CIA isn't part of the Pentagon
- And you were born yesterday

Not to mention the damning word here is " likely "
An area that's small, and they don't have it under 24/7 digital and visual surveillance? Doubtful

I mean, it doesn't appear to be out of the range of their other ordinance. Cars burnt out but Clay tiled awning still uncracked, road appears drivable. Unless you're still working with the outdated information that this was an airstrike that killed ~500
If Israel was going to blow up a hospital, they would have done a better job. It's pretty much the same blowback for partially and completely destroying one.
- https://www.newsweek.com/mysterious-case-gazas-al-shifa-hospital-262086
  Well heres one hospital strike in 2014 that the consensus is they are responsible for, and again it was a strike that hit off to the side and they claimed someone else did. So in the case where this would have been Isreals fault, it would look very similar to another hospital strike they did do.
  They even used the same excuse blaming Gaza terror organizations, not Hamas directly.
Hamas has fired hundreds of rockets towards Israel. (Pretty much all of them seem to have been blown out of the sky by the "iron dome" defense system.)

i believe Hamas would do it on purpose just to make Israel look bad.. it probably wasn't even a mistake.. i mean, they use their own people as meat shields all the time, it wouldn't be a surprise if they bombed their own kids..

gaza is about the size of jersey and one of the most crowded cities in the world. if you shoot 1 ton missiles into a crowd of people to hit one target, chances are you are going to hit more than just your target
- Israel is the size of New Jersey. Gaza is something like 140 Sq miles.
- they would do it on purpose
Israel doesn't need help to look bad, fucking despicable.

ITT: I don't need evidence I get my information straight out of the Xitter

Yeah all that evidence they have put forward to support this claim...... But the US defense department would never lie right?
- I get the cynicism, but you have to trust someone. The DOD for all its faults has vastly more credibility than Hamas.

Man I can't wait 60 years for the DoD or CIA to declassify these documents that show otherwise.

Seriously you should check out some of the stuff the CIA has declassified. Some insane involvement and coverups of so many incidents, wars, overthrows, uprisiings, etc.

I even learned Chuck Yeager had his personal beechcraft bombed by the IAF, and he was so pissed that he listed it as a PAF loss in his 1971 war report lol. He also confirmed PAF's 3:1 k/d, and interviewed all the captured IAF pilots.

All back when Nixon was running the show, so who knows what other stuff went down.

Yeah, I don't think so.

You can think whatever you like, but that means you either have to ignore all the evidence indicating that you're wrong, or you have to have additional evidence to prove you're right. You not liking something doesn't count as evidence.
- You don't need counter -evidence if you recognize the source as unreliable and biased, which it is.
  The fact that you choose to take the US government at face value doesn't mean anyone else has to.
- Firstly, there is plenty of evidence that counters the claim. Secondly, your willingness to believe the US security state at its word is evidence in itself of how many of you people are susceptible to propaganda.

I'm just gonna say this:

For a parking lot that was directly hit by a rocket, the cars barely moved and stayed intact more than United 93, the buildings right next to said parking lot stood stronger than the World Trade Center, and I've seen potholes bigger than the crater they found.

Now that biden has left the area the media will change the narrative again because more and more evidence coming forward shows that it wasn't a hamas rocket that did it

https://twitter.com/AJEnglish/status/1714984258358391057

and just listen to this sound:

https://twitter.com/citizenjournos_/status/1714454679394951567

This wouldn't be the first time that either side denies the attack, and months later the truth comes out.

My first assumption is that the aggressive occupying genocidal regime is lying, but that video shows that they can't see a rocket that did it but if it was a misfire from the ground we wouldn't see it either. So I cant see how this is definitive.
Regardless of who did it Israel regularly kills civilians anyway so they are still cunts.
- It's obviously not definite. But neither is Israel's evidence , which is the same evidence.
  I think israel and the USA know, they have eyes everywhere, satellites, starlink, awacs, drones. There is definitely proof of who did this. Since israel has failed to provide that proof, i tend to believe they want to hide the truth until a later date when it won't matter anymore.

And the US’s official statement was that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction and we needed to invade. Sure…

It was also their official statement that Russia was going to invade Ukraine.
The intelligence agencies actually concluded that Iraq might have weapons of mass destruction. It was the Bush administration that spun it as a certainty and created the lie that they definitely had them.
- You mean to tell me there hasn't been President America running things for 200+ yrs straight?
Since this discussion comes again and again and again, here a Crosspost from a similar thread that shows the „morning after“:
So this here is the current view on the area where supposedly about 500 people died. Also there are allegedly more than 300 wounded.
Questions I personally have:
where is the rubble and where is the bomb crater?
why does the building seem undamaged?
how do you fit 800 people in this parking lot?
- Most of those cars don't even have displaced metal like an explosion, most of it is charred in a secondary fire. Plus what infrastructure does Palestine have to clear the supposed 500+ bodies? Do they have a first world crisis response group hiding somewhere?
  I'd say less then a couple dozen could have possibly died given the impact crater and damage, and that's assuming all cars were loaded with people and they got instantly trapped and burned to death which probably didn't happen.
  There's so many points of "this seems unlikely" on the Hamas side that it's not worth taking them seriously about it. It's propaganda through and through. We have more than enough actual documented war crimes from Israel that this "boy who cried wolf" shit is just going to exacerbate their victimhood through discrediting the very real things that they have done wrong as being "probably also propaganda."
Yeah but this time there's video

USA is directly involved on the conflict with more than 5000 soldiers ready, believe in this is like believing in Belarus statements about Ukraine war.

BBC does not found any evidence of the attack from any side but al Jazeera had a live stream that shows a rocket comming from Israel at the same time.

This argument that the blast site does not appears to be from a Israel's warhead is shit. Israel would not target a Hospital directly and this could be a piece of the rocket that broke off.

https://slrpnk.net/post/3200423

Israel doesn't use rocket artillery, Al Jazeera is about as unbiased a source as China Daily and Russia Today, that is 100% paid propaganda for the dumbest people around.
- Al jazeera is one of the most credible and reliable news agencies in the world. It's nothing like rt or China daily and certainly better than anything US has. But obviously one should not go to al jazeera for news about the middle east.
- Yeah, BBC is also completely biased.
  And calling Al Jazeera biased?
  Dafuq are you talking? You come here, spit a lot of shit baseless and call it a day, average internet user.

Let's just wait this out. No need to get involved.

Palestinians lie, and the world blames Jews, then the world targets Jews, and when the truth finally comes out, no one apologizes, the hurt and blood cannot be rescinded, because "The Jews deserved it anyway"

The IDF has launched missiles at hospitals and schools in the past, and then claimed that they were "Hamas strongholds".
They have no credibility. A fact that Hamas is actively exploiting. Not that Hamas has any credibility, either.
- A fact that Hamas is actively exploiting.
  By being equally as un-trustworthy.
I've seen more people blaming muslim/palestine for this war and say they deserved it than people blaming jews instead of the zionist for causing this war. You all really like to use jew as a criticism shield don't you.
- Have you been on the internet in the past week? Sure politicians and newspapers are generally more towards that kind of statement but Lemmy and Twitter are basically flooded with solidarity with Palestine and yesterday I saw multiple threads about this incident with sources that claimed it was Israel which had people being all "of course they would do that" and if the article was about Israel denying involvement the most comments were not believing that.
  Some people started spraying stars of David on houses where Jews live in Berlin yesterday and another person threw a Molotov at a synagogue.
  There is a shitton of anti-zionist rhetoric out there which fluently merges with anti-semitism
- I don't see Jews giving out candy and celebrating on the street when Palestinians are killed. But that's what is happening here in Germany when Hamas kill and kidnap Israelis. Some Palestinians and their supporters celebrate this.
I would love to see their proof that this wasn't Israel. Israel showed footage taken 40 minutes after the attack as proof that it wasn't them.
What proof is the pentagon going on? The pentagon is a US military entity that is heavily involved already with promoting and disseminating Israeli propaganda. I, and many others, will not believe it until we see proof.
- Do you seriously want to see a video of a hospital full of women and children blow up? The fuck is wrong with you?
  You listen to a doctor when they recommend you something because they are professionals dedicated to their job but hypocritically reject the same kinds of information from other sources full of dedicated professionals without issues.

Ah yes. Just like Iraq had WMDs.

Sure is crazy how, of all the places a rocket misfire could have landed, it struck a place guaranteed to be full of people. A baptist hospital, no less, which would definitely drive up religious tensions in the area if it turned out it was bombed by HAMAS. Israel couldn’t have hoped for a more favorable outcome, how fortunate.

Israel couldn’t have hoped for a more favorable outcome, how fortunate.
They could have done damage to the hospital proper, that would have been more favorable in this escalation plot you nailed down. Why another escalation is needed after raids are already commencing, I dunno, the plot is just so dastardly. The anti-israel riots after this event are undoubtedly going to be used by Israel to give carte blanche to start striking Gaza! Oh wait, that was already happening. A plan so good it is accomplished before it starts.
Also the density of Gaza would make it more probable than not that hamas/Islamic jihad bombs would land in population dense spots when they land short. You don't hear about the IJ bombs that didn't land in hospital parking lots, and assuming otherwise would be rife with logical fallacies.
All in all these events gave Israel nothing that they didn't already have, and stalled Arab meetings to boot. IJ got a pr coup from uncritical media, and the whole event has been muddied into useless circles.
Just like Iraq had WMDs.
This line really doesn't mean that much anymore after critics used it to say the claims that Russia was going to invade Ukraine were untrue.
Healthy skepticism is warranted, but let's not use arguments that have become hollow.
- It's not a hollow argument, the US has a long history of blatantly lying for political reasons. And the Iraq lie resulted in the US murdering 1 million+ Iraqis, acting like it's irrelevant because you don't want to hear criticism of the US is a bullshit response.
- What do you mean “our cause”?
  Isn’t truth the cause, and to stop the killing of ANY civilians? And to stop the needless killing on all sides….
- My dude, HAMAS rockets are barely capable of doing property damage, let alone killing hundreds of people. You expect me to believe that one of these things broke apart mid flight in the perfect fucking way to strike at the fuel supply and set it off in the middle of a huge building full of people? That this practically Rube Goldbergian chain of events is the more likely explanation? One of us is definitely spreading misinformation here but I don’t think it’s me.
What makes you think this is the only rocket that misfired? We just wouldn't hear about one that crashed into an empty piece of desert.

They're lying, I mean the US. Nothing new here.

This is the part where you show the receipts...
- This is like a child demanding proof Santa isn't real...