Could You Prove You’re a Citizen? For Americans wrongfully detained by ICE, it can be nearly impossible to escape.
Could You Prove You’re a Citizen?
It's like proving to a Nazi, you don't have Jewish ancestry in 1938.
So many things wrong with this headline.
There is an important and subtle distinction to be made here. A lot of noise is made calling people who are here without authorization "illegals", but that's not always true. Being present in the country without authorization is not automatically a criminal matter. It is true that many of the avenues for being here without authorization (crossing illegally, overstaying a visa) also violate the law, but that is handled as a separate matter.
Since immigration status is mostly a civil matter, ot a criminal one, these immigration courts are not under the Judicial Branch, like criminal courts are. They are actually "administrative courts" which are part of the Department of Justice, under the President, just like ICE is.
So while the courts occasionally provide a check on this Predident's power, the immigration courts never will. They ultimately report to the President through the DoJ, and the President has much more direct influence over it. So it doesn't surprise me that these people are stuck in a Kafkaesque hell, where ICE ignore their pleas that they are citizens and says "tell it to the judge", and when they finally get to the judge they get ignored.
Is it any wonder that Trump was so dead set against the immigration bill last year? He needed the process to stay chaotic, in order to have a better chance of winning.
Republican leadership has been calling non-citizens here legally under temporary protected status illegals as well. Same holds true for other asylum seekers that followed the legal process. Facts and laws that stand in opposition to their goals are ignored by the republicans in charge and their supporters.
Only people acting in good-faith care about your "proof"
It's getting to the point very soon that the only way you stop this, is armed community resistance.
No warrant, no entry. The only way you stop the abuse of power, is by confronting it with more power.
They are bullies, they are not brave.
No, that's now. Look at what happened yesterday in L.A., for instance.
What happened?
Well that escalated quickly. Any excuse to get the army toys out I guess.
not if someone expects me to produce documents randomly on the sidewalk.
Good luck once locked up without the right to an attorney
Without due process they can just take your documents and poof! What documents?
This is pretty much it. When folks are disapearin and theyre response is they are bad and now its to late oh well. No one is safe. Its literally the secret police.
prints another copy out of my backpack printer
This does beg the question in my mind: If a person is wrongfully determined to be an illegal immigrant despite only having US citizenship, and is actually deported to some country ICE convinces themselves that person is from rather than "deporting" them to some prison in an unrelated country like El Salvador, they would presumably be in that other country illegally at that point. Would they be liable to be deported back to the US in such a case, by the government of that country?
The other country has to be willing to receive them. In this case, the US would probably not.
But countries like El Salvador are being paid by the US to take these people, so they don't really care about the facts, they just want the money.
In that case, do countries usually just take other countries at their word that anyone accused of being an illegal immigrant from that place is actually from where theyre accused of being from, or does the US have to, if it is trying to deport someone somewhere with a reasonably functional government, give that country some kind of evidence that theyre sending them one of their citizens before they agree to take them? For that matter, what happens if a country just stuffs someone on a plane going to another country without the consent of the country in question?
Probably be stuck in customs for life.
Prove you're not a camel. Props to Timothy Snyder for calling that one.
I fully agree with the comments criticizing the ICE and proof of citizenship. The shitty part, the judicial branch is not arresting nor penalizing the business owners hiring illegal labor and a lot of those fuckers voted for this shit.
Yeah, that's the problem isn't it? I have to assume that if there was nowhere to work, there'd be less folks coming here illegally. It's just known you can come, work your ass off, get paid pretty well in cash, and send that shit home on a weekly basis. And there's rules about what can get sent home and there are ways folks skirt that all the time. It's a whole economy. And nothing is done about the people facilitating it. It's arresting the drug user, but leaving the dealers in place.
Watson says that, looking back, he’s not confident that the damage long-term imprisonment did to his mind and body was worth it to remain in the country. “As lovely as America sounds, it’s not everything. It’s okay to start back over and live your life, because sometimes you’re gonna sit there for a long time if you’re fighting,” he says. His advice to other citizens in ICE detention is to remain open to giving up, if deportation means getting out of jail
Only do that if you know you'll actually be deported - rather than imprisoned offshore.
Man, I can't wait for them to try to grab someone with concealed carry.
They're wearing body armor. Dude with a concealed gun likely ends up dead, and ICE gets no charges because they were afraid.
I don't see any Kevlar on their faces.
Kevlar isn't magic. For a pistol round, it might absorb a bunch of the energy, but it's still like getting kicked in the chest by a horse. And that's only for one. Or, if they're ceramic plates, they become much less effective after the first impact.
And that's for a pistol. Consider if they come to the wrong house and the person at the door has a shotgun.
police arrest armed people all the time. or they shoot them.
even having two naked guys with guns vs one body armored guy with a gun puts the odds in the naked guys' favor.
Friendly reminder: suspending habeas corpus for illegal immigrants means that you have NO LEGAL RECOURSE WHATSOEVER if ICE wrongly detains you.
You cannot in any way prove in a court of law that you are not an illegal immigrant if you have no right to have your detention as an illegal immigrant challenged in court.
It DOES NOT MATTER if you have great evidence that you're not an illegal immigrant if illegal immigrants lose their right to trial. It means NOTHING because you then immediately lose your right to legal defence as soon as ICE detans you.
The number of blithely staunch fascists in that article’s comment section is nauseating.
Welcome to America
Well, for me personally, all they would need to do is run my finger prints as my prints have been in the system since I was in highschool for employment background checks.
However, that would assume that the thugs were competent and acting in good faith, which they are not.
If you say so, rbos.
Pocket dial. Hahah. I deleted it but it hasn't propagated.
if only they had some sort of id card they kept on their person at all times.... The government would know who they are. They are explicitly against this. So, "leopards ate my face"
The government doesn't care. They won't look at any proof even if you could provide it.
Due process is how you prove who you are. They're not doing any due process.
Or they'll just call your ID a fake. It's racism through and through.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/may/24/us-citizen-detained-ice-real-id
They call your ID fake...
Not if the people examining my documents are morons, no.
I have a birth certificate, I have a passport and a passport card. None of that is a defense against "It's fake".
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/may/24/us-citizen-detained-ice-real-id
Pretty much. The fact is that ICE does stuff like beat up and arrest a state-level union president because they don't like the color of his skin.
Don't call it an arrest.
It's detainment. Kidnapping even. But an arrest has certain procedures and requirements that are not being followed by ICE.
Another thing to consider is the recording of a ICE kidnapping where the person said they were a natural born citizen, when asked for proof they didn't have their birth certificate on them... While in the car.. driving to work.
The white paper birth certificate... That in my case is over 50 years old, and embossed with a stamp the clerks office likely got at the local trophy shop. That's it.
Drivers license including the Real ID ones don't count it seems.
So, yes. It's being used to indiscriminately arrest who they want like the Stasi fucks they are.
Insane that the Real ID ones won't count when you need a brith certificate to get one.
Let's see the citizenship proof of every ICE agent.
I’ve been thinking about getting a passport card just to have a proof of citizenship in my wallet at all times.
It's a good idea, I like that I can use it to go to Canada and Mexico without rolling out the real deal passport, but it also passes the Real ID test for domestic flights.
Its your word and evidence against the word and ignorance and willingness to kick you out of a racist asshole.
Time to get a global entry card as well.
So ICE considers my government issued IDs are 'fake'....
Then we counter with saying that ICEs badges are fake and start shooting them in the fucking face if they ever try to take my wife away.
Alternately, ICE agents aren't trained/are too dumb to identify fake IDs...
Literally all you really need, fundamentally, is to have memorized your SSN. Your SSN’s validity cant be faked. It proves you are who you say you are at the drop of a hat. If its valid enough for a bank to loan you money through a phone, just because you know your name and your SSN and those match, then it should be good enough for ICE. Its good enough for normal law enforcement already.
And yes, many undocumented people have fake SSNs, but they are not real numbers that tie properly to persons name. They wouldnt pass an EVerify system
SSN is not proof of identity.
https://www.usbirthcertificates.com/articles/acceptable-forms-of-id#%3A%7E%3Atext=No%2C+a+Social+Security+card%2Cused+to+confirm+someone%27s+identity.
Is a social security card a form of ID?
No, a Social Security card is not a form of ID. It only verifies the connection between a name and a Social Security Number.
As it does not have a photograph or other features needed to confirm identity, it cannot be used to confirm someone's identity.
How embarrassing for you that you still think they give a fuck about what would be proof or not lol