Conservatives push to declare fetuses as people, with far-reaching consequences.
Conservatives push to declare fetuses as people, with far-reaching consequences • Stateline
So I can drive in the HOV lane, I can't be mass arrested, and attempted murder against me is considered attempted genocide?
My tax return is going to be enormous due to how many dependants I have. I'll have enough money to get TF out of this crazy place.
All the college kids get to start legally drinking nine months earlier! And legal weed too!
“Fetal personhood” was always the next shoe to drop after they overturned Roe. I was a little surprised the court didn’t go straight there in Dodd.
All that shit the court said about the states being able to decide about abortion? Lies. These right-wing nutcases are out to ban abortion everywhere. And they will, through fetal personhood. We can’t pass a law to kill a PERSON without due process, can we?
It’ll happen in the next five years unless we reform the court or impeach the six frauds. Based on our current tendency to go from bad to worse, I doubt either of those will happen.
Emigrate now if you can.
How? Where? None of us have money saved anymore. Groceries and rent have made sure we can't save any money for anything.
...Unless, there is an adopt an American family movement I haven't heard of? Can we start one?!
I'm Sally Struthers, and I'm here to talk to you about the reality of life here in the nation of America. This is a photo of Timmy. Timmy is a 28 year old middle-manager at a large box store. With just $400 a week Timmy can finally afford the new master cylinder in his 2006 Camry and get a new used iPhone 8.
Please give today.
Not the only next step. They are also looking to ban contraceptives. IUDs will be up first because some believe life begins at fertilization.
Being a person doesn't give them the right to someone else's body to survive.
Unless we're legalizing forced blood, liver, marrow, and kidney donation?
It would be morbidly funny for a woman to sue a fetus for sexual assault for penetrating them without consent.
I'll probably get down-voted to oblivion for asking, but continuing this train of thought: If a woman gives birth to a baby and simply walks away, should she be charged with a crime?
If not, why?
If so, why?
There are plenty of examples of this, so it really isn't thoeretical.
It's easy to bring a baby to a facility and say "I can't do this." There is no punishment for doing so.
It's much more difficult to leave a fetus at a facility and say "I can't do this."
It is also very difficult to get a 3rd trimester abortion unless there are some major health risks involved. During the 1st trimester (when 95% of abortions are performed) the fetus is physically incapable of feeling pain.
Yes, because it's trivial to simply leave the baby at a fire station. The important distinction is that it's drastically easier to carry a baby for 10 blocks than 10 months.
Yes because you have an active duty to seek continuation of care when leaving someone helpless. It’s like walking away after trying to help an unconscious stranger when you learn they need cpr. You don’t necessarily need to give them cpr but you should have to at least call 911 for them
She is not and should not get in any trouble. If anything the decision should be celebrated, as long as we’re talking about a safe dropoff at a hospital or other safe haven.
The child will go from a mother who was in a situation so bad she was willing to give up her baby, to most likely a couple that’s been waiting years to adopt and are dying to be parents.
Yes, because that baby is helpless and is her responsibility to take care of. It's also an actual person, not a potential person like a fetus is.
I can't see down votes (blahaj user), but I hope you weren't downvoted to oblivion. It's good to ask questions that examine one's beliefs and those of others. It's a great way to grow as a person. I personally believe the more difficult and awkward the question, the more it should be considered.
So if fetuses are declared people will Republicans start ignoring them like they do children?
The answer to that question, is yes. Republicans will immediately will stop giving a shit. Which is impressive as they barely care about fetuses now expect for a way to control women.
So they count as dependents on taxes, require child support, and allow the mother to drive in the carpool lane?
I was thinking fetal life insurance.
Just get a freezer full of zygotes and you'll never pay taxes again.
If a fetus kills you, do they get tried as a minor?
Manslaughter, they don't have intent.
This is the plot of Baby Driver, right?
Edit: I'm stupid, I was thinking of Fetus Driver
Depends on the skin color and the class of the fetus.
A fetus that comes a from white, upper class. The answer would be as minor.
A black, poor fetus. Definitely being tried as an adult.
Officer: Are you pregnant ma'am?
Ma'am: No there's a homeless person who is living rent free inside my womb against my will.
Officer: Stand back maam!
LMFAO, that is so dark, and so unfortunately believable given today's political landscape in America.
I stopped before the police officer arrested the woman for violating homelessness laws.
I have about a million pre-people in this tissue. Can I get a tax break?
Every time you masturbate, God kills a kitten you go to prison for mass murder.
I miss the internet of the era of Domo-kun memes.
Hmmm. Who gets the mass murder charge for all the sperm after sex??
Just kidding, this is America. The woman gets charged.
Fucking mega-Hitler over here asking for a donation.
How do you live with yourself for killing so many millions of people of young age?
Wait til you hear about the Cronus wannabes swallowing them all whole! Despicable.
Yes! If your net worth is over $100M, that is.
But are fetuses corporations? If a small business incubator fails, is it an abortion?
Yes, and the customers and employees can be charged with murder.
Careful of what you wish for. I look forward to a future court case that establishes once and for all the definition of a person. Although, with the current Supreme Court, I do admit some hesitation.
I mean, if you want to establish rights for a fetus, what do you do when that fetus belongs to a “Mexican”? What do you do if a pregnant American moves to another country without the permission of the fetus? Not to say these are legit examples, but the courts will fill with bizarre cases like this.
More interestingly, what do you do when science stands up in court and establishes a fact that opposes your belief? Your beliefs have gotten you this far. It’s very plausible that you will lose some of the ground you’ve gained.
It all depends which corporation is paying the most for the ruling.
The US Supreme Court, and specifically several of its members (looking at you Clarence Thomas) are nothing more than corporate shills who’ve made it clear they are out for nothing more than whoever can pay them the most money.
What do you do when you put a pregnant woman in jail? What if they get pregnant in jail?
Put the child in a foster home that preaches that this was all for the best. They are only fit caregivers if they share this belief. In 10 years use the child for propaganda about God working in mysterious ways.
Pretty soon they'll be trying to put me in prison for mass-murder every time I jerk off.
Not a chance, you're (presumably) Male.
May still be possible. We don't know what his skin color is.
Only if he’s a white, male landowner.
Don't give them ideas.
It makes me wonder, why are the religious obsess with abortion when the US allows divorce, even though the Bible forbids it? Why not campaign on striking down divorce as well?
The Bible is actually pro-choice. Kinda. It only mentions abortion once. That's Numbers 5: 11-31. It tells you how to perform an abortion.
That is... a stupefying description of what is written. I had to read the torah in primary school. Half a day, every school day, one book per year, (two for Leviticus), in Hebrew. I was confounded. I thought maybe Rabbi had us skip that part.
The part you are referring to is referred to as "Sota" which describes a magical ceremony where in a man would bring his allegedly unfaithful wife before a Beis Din, and she could drink a magic potion, snickeringly referred to as "sota water," to prove her innocence. The logic goes that if the woman was unfaithful, "these afflictive waters shall enter your innards, causing your belly to swell and your thigh to rupture" . This could be taken mean an abortion, but in my grade school class, we were very giggly, because we thought it meant she would explode.
Further, the potion is described being water, dust from the tabernacle floor, and an invocation written down and dissolved in the water (Number 5: 17, and 23), and is explicitly stated it won't hurt an innocent woman. (28). This passage does evoke abortion. But it describes a magical ritual that it claims will only cause abortion in unfaithful women, and the potion provided wont cause anyone to abort (although it is gross). Claiming in instructs an abortion is a massive stretch.
it's always about control, forcing women to have kids to carry on religion. once they're an adult, divorce doesn't matter because they don't care, you're an adult. once the baby is born, they couldn't care less. it's also about punishment. a man can't be a whore, but if a woman gets pregnant, especially out of wedlock, she's a whore and deserves it.
edit: these are not my views at all, this is what is forced on women in America through religion and to a large extent, the Republican party. they're treated like burdens and baby makers and deserve pain and suffering like eve did in the book of tall tales.
My brother honestly wants to get rid of divorce so that people will "take the commitment more seriously".
He said this after his fiancee left for another guy. Hilarious at first glance, mortifying when you realize what he actually wanted to happen based on what he said.
because republican donors saw it as a way to create political division after Roe, so they required the churches they donate to to adopt the catholic theology of fetal personhood. This had the double effect of letting evangelicals feel like the state was oppressing their freshly adopted religious belief and persecuting them.
Would not surprise me if these same people then try to legalize pedophilia if they win just so they can do everything in their power to legally fuck a fetus. I imagine that's their ultimate goal in life.
These people watched a serbian film and thought: newborn porn? Why didn't i think of that
Come census time there will be pregnancy tests?
fuck religion. prove your god is real or stfu. stop letting conservatives have a say in the government of this country. just put your fucking feet down people. stop letting idiots speak.
Pregnant mothers can drive in the carpool lane!
But people under a certain age are required a child seat, no? So unless those rules are changed, it would be hard for any pregnant woman to legally sit in a moving car.
We're just going to have to also legally classify pregnant people as car seats so they can drive to work.
Ah, good point. But doesn't that mean that the pregnant woman can't ride in the car at all, since the young "person" inside them doesn't have a way to be put in a seat?
It looks like Florida and West Virginia have no seat laws, so pregnant woman in the carpool lane are good to go there!
Pregnant women votes should be doubled!
I get what you're going for, but young kids can't vote, so this doesn't really work as a joke. :P
Couch boy wants to give parents an extra vote for every child they have. Now, he doesn't say how they are split between the parents so a) probably goes to the father and b) not if the kid has 2 moms or 2 dads.
Ok, then start issuing them social security numbers as soon as they've confirmed your pregnant so parents can start applying for and receiving benefits before the child is even born.
Not attacking you, but I hate this fucking argument about fetuses being people: if they're people at the moment of conception, then they need to be treated as such. Conservatives can't have it both ways, despite the fact I know in their minds they can.
On an unrelated note: I think it's time we got rid of "under God" and "In God We Trust" from the pledge of allegiance and all of our currency. We're not a Christian nation, I don't believe in a God, and shouldn't have to handle currency that goes against my lack of religious beliefs.
But half our country wants a Christian-Theocratic-Sharia-Law institution as our government, and I'd prefer they just fuck right off.
Tax returns of 9 months.
Da dummest of fux.
Meanwhile, the "slippery slope" logical fallacy falls over, down a hill, and dies.
Then starts spinning, creating a perfectly cylindrical hole, and catches fire due to friction, and self cremating.
Pushing to have zygotes and blastocysts as people is fucking worse. That's as nonsensical as calling sperm people. There's not even a neural tube for christ sakes. My toenail has as much personhood. This shit isn't even biblical.
Roe v. Wade came into existence as Biden's career was taking off fifty years ago
it has now been two years since Roe v. Wade fell and if it took fifty years to for it to fall then we may have a long time to wait for our rights to be restored
this will just be some campaign promise for either side to exploit and asks donations on whether to keep things restricted or to restore rights eventually
US citizens need to wake up and realize both side are just empty promises and words we need actual leadership in the Senate, the Congress, The Presidency, and the rest of the government
Cool. Who are you canvassing for?
Lol, why do you people always force everything into a false dichotomy? If you have a problem with the statement, at least confront the actual argument being put forward.
Nothing they said is false, the Democrats over the last couple decades have slid further and further to the right, mostly because they care more about economic policy and decorum than protecting people's rights.
Are they better than the Republicans, of course. But that doesn't mean we can't be critical when assessing if they've met our expectations. Saying both parties need better leadership is just stating the obvious, it doesn't mean this person's urging people to not vote, or to vote for the worse party.
This country is in for some rough years if our only qualifications for leadership positions is just being better than Republicans, that bar is too low.
So if we perceive a fetus as a person, self defense laws and stand your ground laws should apply right?
Like, if the threat is persistent and reasonably considered to be causing bodily harm, then reasonable escalating force, up to lethal, should be legal correct? Intent and innocence of the perps intentions does not absolve them in court of law... So if we consider the fetus a person and they are causing harm without stopping when prompted the mother should be legally afforded to defend herself, no?
The oil and gas industry is responsible for miscarriages and premature births.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/mar/29/the-links-between-pollution-and-miscarriage-this-is-the-stuff-nightmares-are-made-of
This is the truth. Not even a full grown person, not even your just-born child, no one can compel you to give your blood to save their life much less to keep them alive inside your own body for nine months.
If they think a fetus has the same right to life as any person, they are free to help it survive using their own resources, just get it the fuck out of my body first.
That is a creative usage of the law. I like it
If you think about it, isnt all law about creative and novel ways to twist wording to get around it?
If we couldnt bend the law to our will there would only be one law and it would be: 'dont be a cunt'.
Would you be okay with charging a 5-year-old child with assault if a dad threw the kid at his mom without the kid wanting that? The kid didn't choose to be thrown at his mom, but collided with her regardless. Similarly, the fetus didn't choose to be conceived, but exists nonetheless.
No one has ever chosen to be conceived and yet we're still forced to live by the rules of society.
I don't understand why the five year old would have any charges against it in that scenario, they too were a victim. From the moment they were tossed, any forthcoming damages and assaults are placed on the person chucking said child.
Easy one, next question I like these.
Bad analogy. The father would be charged with assault on the kid and the woman in your scenario. Also, no one reasonable thinks a five year old and a fetus are the same, which is why these laws are fucking ridiculous.