Windows 11 vs Linux supported HW

I could never go back to Windows, after having tasted the freedom of Linux.

Enough with the fan wars. Let's be perfectly honest for once. Windows, Linux, MacOS - they all suck. Sometimes in similar ways, sometimes in different ways. But they all suck.

Windows users - I get you, you use it because it sorta works 40%, of the time and sucks in the way you understand.

Linux users - I get you, you know all of the arcane incantations you need to quickly install, update, and troubleshoot your os in a terminal window. It works - once you apply your custom bash script that applies every change you need to get everything exactly how you like it. But again, it sucks in the way you understand.

MacOS users - well I don't really get you. You know what you've done.

We deserve better than this, guys. We deserve an os that just works, is easy to use, easy to configure, doesn't require an IT degree to use, and that we can recommend to our grandma without a second thought.

just works, is easy to use, easy to configure, doesn't require an IT degree to use, and that we can recommend to our grandma
TempleOS satisfies all of these conditions

MacOS users - well I don’t really get you. You know what you’ve done.
I laughed hard on this one hahahahaha
- What did we do?
Probably an unpopular opinion on here, but the OS I recommend for grandparents and parents is ChromeOS. It's so locked down that it's almost indestructible, and they almost never need any specialized software that you'd use Windows/MacOS for. If you're savvy enough you can also use Linux on it in a container, which is how I prefer to use it for day to day stuff (in my case, data related workflows).

Macbooks just make really nice ssh terminals for accessing your Linux dev environment. Though these days there are decent options for Linux terminals with a similar form factor, they just don't tend to be much cheaper.
- I think that something like 20% of what's keeping me using Mac is iTerm2's integration with ‘tmux -CC‘
It kinda felt like you were gonna break into song about the Year of the BSD Desktop for a second there!

When I worked as a IT Tech at a University years ago we had a lot of MacOS users who believed they could just pick it up and use it like their iPhone. It was absurd how well their marketing worked because those users either forced themselves to learn it or dropped it and went back to Windows.
I know a lot of iOS users who have iPads and iPhones but still have windows PCs because they don't have to worry about compatibility issues.

I know you made a joke about MacOS, but I am genuinely interested with what issue you have of it.

This is a pointless argument even saying that everyone sucks, linux runs worse on the desktop because it doesn't get even 1/10th the investment from consumer hardware manufacturers compared to windows or mac to make it compatible. nevertheless linux is undoubtedly less difficult and more efficient to integrate than windows, for example the steam deck is done very well but it could be done better since KDE, wayland and arch do not have the same number of employees as microsoft.
It depends. It could also be a better idea to introduce a sort of "IT driver's license" for everyone to have basic understanding/skills to use their devices. Sure, modern software stacks are ridiculously complex and no one understands every detail down to each machine code/assembly instruction, so there's always a big amount of abstraction or simplification needed, but I don't think it's a good idea to request that someone with literal zero knowledge whatsoever should be able to perfectly use an OS or device. That's also not even possible. I see it with my mother, she started from zero knowledge but she had to learn some basics to be able to do the few things she needs to do. Of course she uses Linux. No prior Windows knowledge means a much easier start with Linux of course. She wouldn't have been able to use Windows either with zero knowledge. So this is a point that some forget: even Windows users need knowledge to be able to use Windows, and they probably already earned that knowledge in much earlier years. This Windows knowledge also works against you building up Linux (or even OS X) knowledge because Windows works quite differently from a Unix-like OS. This is not irrelevant: a Windows user who spent like 30 years in Windows has a much harder time learning Linux, than someone who didn't have that. But, again, not really the fault of Linux that you indoctrinated yourself with Windows-only MS product specific knowledge over the last decades. This is probably the biggest problem there is, because almost everyone on the planet has already acquired some amount of Windows knowledge in the past. This works against you when trying to switch. Windows knowledge is mostly Windows-specific. When learning about IT, you should make sure that you learn things in a preferably OS agnostic way. Which is also the reason why schools etc. should never teach "using MS products". They should always teach fundamentals, irrelevant of what you use afterwards. And those fundamentals should of course not be taught using commercial products, but rather open source software.
Then there are some fantasies which MS and Apple could establish in the broader population which aren't true, for example that CLI/terminal usage is archaic and has no place on modern desktops anymore. CLI usage will always remain as a fast alternative to a lot of tasks which are hard or even impossible to do via GUI. Even MS has realized this and introduced Powershell, a new terminal, and winget, for example. As well as WSL (which was originally and still mostly is being used to have access to powerful Linux-based CLI utilities). Yet still a lot of people seem to think that CLI is obsolete or that it's "hard". Sure, if you do some scripting or complex one-liners, it can be too hard for someone without strong IT knowledge. But most commands are really basic and easy to understand. Even my mother is able to use basic commandline utilities, and she even prefers it sometimes over clicking around in the GUI. To claim that this is impossible or too hard to learn for a Windows user is, I don't know. At least untrue. Probably even an insult to your own intelligence. And the main reason why most Linux users suggest doing things via commandline is that this is an almost distro- and desktop-independent way of doing things.
Also, not a big fan of the "fan" label here. Regardless of whether or not you like Linux (I like Linux as an OS more than Windows, because I think the Unix-way is better, but it's also about so much more), I see a neutral, free/libre open source (FLOSS) operating system as the base for our digital lives as a necessity, and so I see Windows or OS X as intrinsically worse. I don't see it as a kind of war between different products on equal footing. One product denies you any rights and control (and in more recent times, also extracts even more value and data from you than just the price you paid for the license to use it), and one that gives you full rights and control (and pretty much never extracts any more from you). It's not OK that we use our devices for so many things in life nowadays, that all aspects of your life are being done via digital means nowadays, and yet the most popular operating systems are still 100% proprietary black boxes fully controlled by big US companies. This needs to change, and it should have happened a long time ago already. And Linux is simply the most mature and most well supported FLOSS operating system out of all of them. I actually wouldn't care if it would be FreeBSD or OpenBSD or whatever instead, but I see Linux as being the most mature, well-supported and mainstream-viable option here. I only care that it's not a damn black box I don't have any real control over.
We need (almost) everyone on such open technologies like Linux, because the future (or even present) for Windows users looks like this: no control, no privacy (plus AI being trained on your work/data as well), big vulnerability when (not if) MS gets hacked (and they're a huge, juicy target, and we already saw them being compromised twice in the last couple of years), pricey subscription to MS' services which continues to get pricier once you're successfully vendor-locked-in (once all your servers, desktops and data is in MS' cloud, you won't be able to easily leave their services anymore, so they are free to increase prices until it hurts you). Even if you happen to like the offering MS gives you, does that really seem like "the future" of computing to you? To me, that's backwards. Or mainframe history repeating itself. Moving into proprietary clouds with vendor-lock-in only really benefits the cloud provider, which is why they want all users to join the "party".
I'm not a big fan of Stallman in general, but his fundamental propositions e.g. that FLOSS software is intrinsically better than proprietary black boxes, is true. I wonder how long we still need as a society, to arrive at that realization. I assumed that the Snowden revelations as well as the desaster that Windows 10 was for privacy, would have already started a change in thinking about such things. But that probably wasn't enough (strangely). I'm not sure what else would need to happen, but I guess something like first MS shoving all their users into their cloud, and then MS being hacked (again) but this time with malicious auto-updates being pushed to all MS software users as well, impacting tons of businesses. Then, maybe, people will start thinking whether this was such a great idea to begin with to play along with what MS envisioned as the "grand future". Unfortunately I see parallels with the human behavior concerning climate change here as well. It's like we have to first destroy our climate and suffer the consequences, before we realize it's a bad idea and we should do it differently RIGHT NOW. We are just incredibly short-sighted and we only learn AFTER disasters, which were even announced long before. It's tragic.
And for those people who know or think they could start using Linux but still use Windows because it's more "aesthetically pleasing" or whatever else irrelevant aspect they make up to "justify" still staying on that sinking MS ship in 2023, please reconsider your priorities.

But do they have a varying degrees of suck?
Let me introduce you to FreeDOS!

The OS I direct the technologically-illiterate to when I don't plan on supporting it myself is invariably iOS. Boomers don't need anything more anyway.
ReactOS is promising.
Havent had issues with my Windows PC in years. I dont have time to deal with linux stuff at this ppint in my life but used to play with it as a teen.

@eochaid @OsrsNeedsF2P yeah… I’m sorry but that’s like saying all screwdrivers suck. If you don’t take the time to learn how to use a tool you will always have a negative experience using said tool. You are never going to find an advanced technology that’s been dumbed down to the point where you can’t break it.

Lol Linux is easier than Windows, you don’t need to know any troubleshooting secrets or bash. Even the installation is easier
How many people do you know with Android phones that know bash?
Terminal isn’t any more necessary on Linux than Windows but the commands are simpler
The downside of Linux is that it’s free, that means they can’t afford to pay manufacturers to include their OS at the same scale as Microsoft. Thus Windows will have more users and be a more profitable ecosystem to target software for

Windows: "We dropped support for that thing you bought brand new 5 years ago"

Linux: "We are considering dropping support for something that has existed for longer than you had"

Linux: “We're dropping support for this device because we're fairly sure we had the last one in existence and it just died.”
Hell, I can get a 30 year old HP LaserJet 4 printer working just fine on almost any version of Linux with the official HPLIP CLI software provided by (shockingly) HP, which was updated 2 months ago with support for over 50 new printers and the following OSes:
LinuxMint 21.1
MxLinux 21.3
Elementary OS 7
Ubuntu 22.10
RHEL 8.6
RHEL 8.7
RHEL 9.1
Fedora 37
I HATE HP and their printers (PC LOAD LETTER WTF FOR LIFE) but I will admit that this is impressive support.
Gentoo: yeah I'll run on a potato if you tell me how to do it.
- NetBSD: we already run on the potato, oh and that yam over there.
Still can't believe they dropped support for i386 😤
It's not even a matter of when. I was recently given an i7 6700K, and no game, old or new, comes close to fully using it, and it's not even overclocked. If anyone is in doubt about the requirement being artificial, try this CPU.
- The windows 11 cpu requirement isn’t a requirement per se but a "it’s validated to work on this or newer". 6th gen Intel is no problem. Even 4th gen or older aren’t a problem, performance wise. The problem is the mandatory TPM 2.0 support. Intel CPUs only massively support that from 6th gen on and AMD CPUs even later (I think Zen 2). On some older boards you might have luck, especially if you buy a hardware TPM but my PC for example, running a i7 3770, only has a TPM 1.2 and no way to upgrade to 2.0. Now, there are ways to circumvent the need for a TPM all together on Win 11 but tbh, Win 10 installs perfectly well still on Hardware as old as Athlon 64 and in my experience even better than 11 anyways.
- Stellaris my man... Stellaris... Joke aside this is my CPU and it's indeed rock solid.
True, but getting that thing that's older than you to actually work is going to require recompiling your kernel with some specific options, downloading a driver from an obscure git repo, running a tool to generate a config file, manually editing that config, and then running another tool to install the driver and then troubleshooting what went wrong.
Oh, wait, that was me trying to use my relatively new Sound Blaster sound card when experimenting with Linux 20 years ago. Linux had terrible support for ISA Plug and Play cards for some reason.
By comparison my solution to windows dropping support for a thing was to grab the cheapest PC I could find that might hypothetically work and stick an old version of windows on it that still had support and just not connect it to the Internet.
- 20 years ago? Try installing Linux on that same hardware now. Now try installing Windows?
  Try the same experiment with any hardware 5 years old or older. Linux wins every time.
  People will say that on newer hardware, Windows is better. Partially true. New hardware that was designed to ship with Windows will work better. A fair comparison would be hardware that ships with Linux.
  Proprietary firmware has always been an issue ( like Broadcom and like NVIDIA ), especially on distros like Debian that could not ship non-free firmware. The situation has improved though. Even NVIDIA will ship out of the box soon. And Debian will shop non-free firmware now so those old Broadcom cards should work.
  One of my favourite things about Linux is how much easier it is to get it running on random hardware, especially “out of the box” without having to track down drivers or install stuff after. With older Apple hardware, it is not just easier but it may be the only way to use modern software at all. I confess though that I am mostly speaking about older hardware.

I've worked exclusively with Linux servers since 2002 and exclusively Linux desktop since 2004 and I've come to the point where I prettyuch refuse to touch windows for fear it will infect me somehow.

I know most people don't know any better but it's insanity to me that anyone still pays money for windows. It's a scam, no other words for it.

Don't even get me started on Windows servers. It's just sad to see how much money is spent on a company that has so litte focus on quality.

Even the online services suck. Dear God Microsoft, would it kill you to understand that people might have gasp TWO tabs open with your teams "app"?

Even azure runs Linux
- To think that even daedric prince would do that.
I guess I pay for the convenience that I get when I buy a new game, simply press Install and start playing. I spend most of my free time playing games on PC, I have no other reasons to stick to Windows. I'll happily switch to Linux on the day when every new release works with no extra problems, tinkering, waiting or searching caused by my choice of OS.
This is going to sound selfish, but I don't have the "energy" of fighting against whatever the current meta is - I just have to appreciate the more invested people that drive Linux forward. I'll just follow and use the OS where I get the smoothest overall experience for gaming (including thing like mouse/kb driver support). Windows is the current answer for this, one day it'll be something else - hopefully Linux.
Shit's been progressing really fast recently - I guess Steam Deck is doing some heavy lifting when it comes to motivating developers to keep Linux in mind. Direct support will always give the best results for everyone.
- I'll happily switch to Linux on the day when every new release works with no extra problems, tinkering, waiting or searching caused by my choice of OS.
  Let me give you an honest answer that no Linux users is willing to give you (certainly because they fear to scare people off of Linux): you will never see the day where Linux will be equal if not better than Windows for gaming (which it can be sometimes, but it's not always the case) if not a certain amount of people get out of their comfort zone and are willing to try something new. In fact, nobody can improve anything in their life if they're not willing to get out of their comfort zone.
  You're already using a PC to play video games, I did this choice too, so trust me, you definitely have the energy to change for a better OS, something ever you recognize as having qualities outside of games. Otherwise, you would've played exclusively on console where you actually have a plug and play experience... unfortunately at the cost of your freedom to use the machine you bought however you want, besides all the other considerable disadvantages.
  For me, Linux made as much progress as it can do, meaning now, for Linux to be viable for gaming, either companies start to move their asses and make Linux native games (which they can easily do, if they're willing to use the right tools for their game like Vulkan) but I hardly see that coming any time soon, or new users have to come to Linux so that companies would finally care. Personally, I made my choice by making the first step.
- Games don't always run perfectly under Windows on release either.
  I specifically remember one of the CoD games running just long enough to use up all my vram, whereby it would promotly crash. Took about about two weeks to sort that one out.
  My tinkering under Linux consists of downloading a game under Steam, ticking a compatibility checkbox, and playing the game. For other launchers, I simply open Bottles and install the launcher of my choosing. Been playing Diablo 4 under Battle.net just fine since launch.
  It blows my mind just how bad file system performance is under Windows compared to Linux. I mean, you literally have to have an SSD in order for the OS to be responsive. Granted, most have SSD's these days, but performance on spinning rust shouldn't be that bad.
- I’ll happily switch to Linux on the day when every new release works with no extra problems, tinkering, waiting or searching caused by my choice of OS.
  Yes, it's definitely getting close now...
- Linux people will never admit that it’s like that though. I have a few friends on Linux and when we all boot a game to play, the windows users like me sit in the lobby waiting for my friends to trouble shoot why battlefield 1 isn’t launching on Linux, then they give up and just boot into windows and magically the game starts.
- I stopped gaming a long time ago but what I'm reading is that gaming in Linux has improved immensely and these days is in the same level as Microsoft Windows. I'd give that a try
I've used Linux since about 2004 for personal use. On my homer server(s) and desktop. 95% of them Gentoo (stable). For my relatives I've installed some EL workstation distro. Especially my father needs a install-and-forget system, which Windows isn't.
But I do install and fix Windows PCs at my work. It's because how Windows works (or rather not work) I get paid. That said, the more I use Windows the more I get frustrated with it.
One of the worst things lately was the accidental activation of BitLocker. It got activated even when the user didn't have Microsoft account (from where he/she would retrieve the encryption key to decrypt the data if Windows decides to lock the drive). "Oh I'm sorry, but because M$ fuckup your data is gone. Do you have backups? 😇" To avoid any BitLocker issues the secure boot should be disabled. BitLocker shouldn't then be available for activation.
Some of the frustrating sides of Windows can be avoided by using Pro version of Windows. But that's simply not enough.
IMO the only reason to use (suffer from) Windows is if you play some games that require it.
- My personal solution to that problem ist to not play those games. There's plenty of stuff to play on Steam that runs fine on Linux.
It's the professional software that's lacking in Linux, and that's the only reason I keep a Windows machine around. For music production, video production, design work, photography and so on, Windows has good commercial software that is well established in these professions.
But for most people, including gamers, Linux is a very good option right now.
- I recently setup a Windows vm for my mum because she also needs photo and video editing sw and isn't happy with the Linux alternatives. This works astonishingly well. Virtualbox even has a mode now to fully integrate the vm into the existing desktop, so basically she just gets the windows status bar in addition to the Linux one when she starts the vm. Windows programs open as if they were running natively. Might be worth a try for you.
I prettyuch refuse to touch windows for fear it will infect me somehow.
Don't worry. It won't. It'll just frustrate you. Windows has gone seriously downhill since 7.
- It was alret horrible at 95. I used windows for about a good 2 years in my life. I've been on Amiga is before, Unix osses for a while and over 21 years now on Linux. Windows, any version, compared to any of those is a joke
I love windows.... I appreciate Linux but as a standard user, I have no need for Linux. I'm careful and I'd say an advanced user. I avoid dodgy websites and idk... I have a dual boot with fedora but I really don't use fedora because no need?
- Let's assume you're not a power user who would be confined to Microsoft's "can't do" or "too complicated" rules; why do you pay for windows?
  And if you pirate, why? Then just use Linux, it's tree and does all you need
  And if iou "got it for free with your computer", you didn't, you paid Microsoft ab obligatory tax, like ot or not. Why?
  The KDE UI looks and feels the same like windows but is superior, you don't always have to reboot after any minor issue or change, it's free, it doesn't spy on you, and you don't have the virus bullshit for a variety of reasons
  If you don't know better, I can understand, but you do. You know Linux is out there, why windows?

Windows requirements: sprawling list of unsupported hardware based on an arbitrary requirment for a security chip that doesn't actually improve security at all

Linux: CPU (optional)

As a person who has used linux i can confirm that my daughter runs linux
I don't think microcontrollers count as CPU, right? Do they have an ALU?
- Yes they do. Microcontrollers contain a microprocessor that is optimized for branching instructions and already include memory and peripheral interfaces which are connected directly to the processor bus (opposed to general purpose CPUs).

carefully select hardware

lmao, i've exclusively run linux on franken pcs cobbled together out of mostly second hand parts

I like Linux a lot, but saying you can't understand why someone would run Windows on a server just shows a lack of knowledge. Linux is great in a lot of server applications in the application realm. However, it doesn't get close to the power of Active Directory and Group Policy for Windows device management. Besides that, a lot of people are more comfortable with a UI for managing DHCP, DNA, etc in a SMB environment. Even if they prefer a command line for those tools PowerShell allows those people to coexist with those that prefer a GUI. Under certain circumstances, (mainly ones where a business is forgoing AD for AAD), Linux can be the right choice. Pretending that there's no place for Windows Server, though, is asinine.

There's this thing I notice. If windows asks you to learn something or put up with some BS it's seen as the cost of business, reasonable, or simply not even noticed. If Linux requires you to learn something, like read one article about which distro might work best for you, it's seen as an insurmountable difficulty or an absurd ask.

it's sunk cost bias. I have this trying to use windows or macos, after using linux exclusively for half my life - everything feels foreign and frustrating, with an obnoxious amount of UX patterns you're expected to know in order to find anything. ugh, I could rant for hours on how obtuse macos is (mainly because I have to interact with it for work right now - if you force me to use windows, I'll rant about that too)
- The nice thing about Linux is you can pick a DE that apes whatever OS you're used to so the transition from Windows or Mac to desktop Linux can be very painless.
- It definitely is ya. I use mac for work and that shit sucks
Every time I've been asked to learn about Windows this year has resulted in "Haha fuck you who do you think you are? The owner of this computer? Eat shit pleb you belong to steve balmer now".
You wouldn't believe the amount of bullshit you have to go through to exorcise Edge. Some people told me "This is to protect the user" so i sent them back a picture of system.32 in the recycle bin.
- I quit windows after I spent a few hours trying to get permission to delete a file I knew I didn't need but but windows just refused to allow even admin accounts to touch. Had to dig so deep into windows settings.
I don't use linux because a linux computer is not usable for me. I use mine for blender(works on Linux), Creo(does not work), DCS(no linux support, people say it's hard to get working with wine/proton game things) and Destiny (anti cheat will ban you if you run it through one of the linux game things). Like it or not, "just learn an entire new os and new software for all the things you want to do" is not an option for most people.
- No I'll never deny that. Some things do only work in very specific environments. I'll also never pretend learning is a task with zero effort or that everyone is interested in doing. What bugs me is when people are dishonest about it. Linux is not impossibly difficult to use nor is Windows a sublime user experience with no friction.
  Anticheat though ya that's fucked. Hate that. I'll admit I have a Windows partition solely for playing the few games that require it. Though haven't booted it in a year or so.
Except that's an article we would probably read, unless we're already set in our ways.
Also the half life of windows knowledge is a lot lower than linux knowledge. Under windows: when you have this problem, click here, click there, find this button, select this option and then it might help, until the next version changes everything. Under linux you find this config file, change this line to that and the fix will likely survive multiple system upgrades and could even work on different distributions.
- Absolutely. Once you spend just a bit of time figuring out how config files work suddenly fixing problems on and maintaining your Linux system is far easier than windows. Not hidden behind layers of bad UI that doesn't work. Just edit the file. Restart the process.

I upgraded my Intel system to AMD today. And I didn't have to reinstall a damn thing, because my existing Linux installation Just Worked™. It really is to the point that I could never imagine going back to Windows.

CPU vendors are usually pretty seamless to swap on Winblows, other than the fact that Windows will possibly whine that you've modified your system too much and need a new license 🤓
- I've encountered issues swapping a Windows install between machines equipped with an Intel processor to one equipped with a current AMD processor.
  In the meantime, my KDE Neon install has been swapped between four different PC's now without a single issue.
- Windows will possibly whine that you've modified your system too much and need a new license
  If the MAC address changes, Windows activation will always fail. I just don't see any of that as worth the trouble anymore since The Windows Difference™ is just telemetry overhead and updates that need to happen while I'm trying to get something done.

I was flirting with Linux for 20 years. There was always something that put me off an I went back to Windows. Recently I installed ubuntu with Kde plasma and I'm not going back. It just works and is heaps faster on older hardware. The old driver issues are gone, compatibility is awesome. The only issue is getting used to new software names.

Same. I started with Ubuntu like a decade ago. I hated it and didn't really see the fuss, kind of gave up.
But then I started putting in tons of time in rasbian, and windows kept getting more and more.. Well, windows. I eventually realized how much more I liked working on stuff on the pi, and just needed proper hardware. That's also when I started to understand the differences between distros. I'm not flaming Ubuntu (I'm not really smart enough to have an opinion), it was just a lot of hastle for something I didn't understand the upside of yet.
Been wrestling with my first all Linux (Debian) box. It's a bit of a learning curve but there's this weird headspace it frees up. It does what I tell it. There's no random software that shows up. There's nothing I can't nuke. No surveys on my favorite BBQ dish in my Taskbar (true story). It's so godamn nice. It's the opposite of a black box.
Im getting another (3rd) box specifically to slowly replace my current desktop. Ill be fooling around with WINE and whatnot for the software I need for work, probably setting up a small windows partition for when I absolutely need it. But all in all I'll be 90% penguin by years end.
I dual boot fedora with plasma (it has all my laptop drivers without me having to install anything) with Windows and it's pretty great, but I was out of Linux for a long time and there's things I don't remember. So I'm missing stuff and don't have the time to relearn what I knew 20 years ago.
It works well enough for day to day tasks and dev work. Windows works well enough to run some games.
How's gaming support?
- Decent, with proton I can play most games with no issues
- A large majority of games on steam work via proton.
  For games outside steam, there's a pretty good community around wine wrappers. I think it's called lutris.
  I used to play GTAV, assassins creed, and other AAA titles through it 4 years ago and its only gotten better.
- For single player, the majority of games should work just fine. Most gaming issues nowadays are either because of invase DRM or anticheat, but more and more games are getting support. A large part of it is thanks to the steam deck.
- Surprisingly good. It's no longer that depressing list of the same handful of open source games. These days you can be fairly confident most games will run OK, especially if you're running Steam.
- Through Lutris, really good

Everyone acts like nvidia support on linux is completely broken. I game with nvidia on mine regularly and have never had a driver bug.

It's not that it's broken, it's that the open source driver stack and AMD cards are a superior experience. The Nvidia Linux driver is just like the Windows driver.
- I think it's more that they are broken (esp. on Wayland) and that they are closed source and that they are not pre-installed in Mesa and that they lack basic features such as GAMMA_LUT for night light on Wayland...
- NVIDIA user here, my experience is largely faultless and performance is great.
My wife and I play Grim Dawn and other ARPGs on a regular basis. I run Ubuntu 23.04 (Snap-less, of course); she runs Windows 10. I ALWAYS host, and that should tell you something...
- A grim dawn player, how is the game? Their updates actually add things these days? I have the game but not played it too much but I was surprised they still update it
Raytracing is mostly fucked though, otherwise I'd be gaming exclusively on Linux as well. Aside from that though I've never had any issues with Nvidia on Linux.
- What do you mean it's fucked? I've read this before but honestly Cyberpunk 2077 runs way better for me on Linux and I think it looks great. Never checked settings in detail since it seemed to do a good job of automatically selecting graphics settings. I have an Nvidia card on pop_OS and it works better than I ever thought gaming on Linux could!
I game … regularly and have never had a driver bug
Presses X to doubt…
- Way to prove my point.

You know, I've been using Linux on desktops and laptops for like 20 years now. I can count on one hand then number of times I've had hardware support issues. Outside of a fingerprint scanner, I've been able to solve all of those issues.

Meanwhile, my adventures across the years dealing with Windows drivers led me to finally say "fuck it" earlier this year and nuke the Windows install on my gaming rig in favor of Nobara.

I'll take Linux hardware support over Microsoft any day of the week.

I have the opposite experience. For 15 years I've been installing windows on laptops and desktops. Never did I had to 'solve' driver issues. They were either easy to find, by clicking 'search in windows update' or were supported directly through windows itself. No need to solve anything...
The opposite was true for my few Linux (Ubuntu and Linux mint) adventures. Every time something would just not work. The most frustrating for me was the broken sleep function. There was no way to get my laptop to sleep properly. It would wake up at random times or just not boot anymore thereafter.
Just saying that these kind of things really depend on what you work with and what you want to get out of a system
- I totally get that. The world is a funny place, and no two people will habe the same lived experience.
  And FTR, as weird as this may sound to you, the big deal to me was that on Linux (usually Debian/Ubuntu, Fedora, Arch, or a derivative of those three) there were significantly fewer problems in the first place, never mind whether or not they got solved. I may just have gotten a lucky spin on the Great Hardware Roulette Wheel.
- Windows is definately not immune to sleep issues. I can state with absolute honesty that sleep under Windows never worked for me until the advent of Windows 10.
  I can't remember the last time I had a sleep issue running Linux on any of my laptops, all with Intel iGPU's.
That reminds me of a Microsoft-branded USB WiFi adapter that I was making heavy use of back in mid-2000s. The MN-510. You could buy it brand-new circa 2006. It had a $75 launch MSRP, about $114 adjusted for inflation. Come 2009, we find out that Windows 7 wasn't going to support it. And given what we know about OS development cycles, they presumably made that call in '08 or even '07. Looking back on it, I think this was one of the major catalysts for me to reconsider Linux as a drop-in replacement. Because, wouldn't you know, the adapter kept working just fine when I tried it out in Ubuntu. Support was simply there in the kernel. Plug-and-play. I suddenly had this whole other operating system providing an it-just-works network connection, for free. It was amazing. So I used that adapter for several more years until I could afford a network upgrade. And I'm still using Linux the majority of the time today.
I switched to arch using qtile wm a few months ago. Couldn't be happier. If a game doesn't run on my rig either though stream or lutris well I just don't play it, there's way more games to discover and play.
This! I literally give Windows a chance every version. I even kind of liked Windows 11 this go around.
But something always breaks and no matter how much I trouble shoot the fix is to reinstall windows. To which I say screw that and start distro hoping.
11 with 2022 gaming laptop just stopped updating. The only non native app I had on the thing was STEAM! I have been using Linux for 18 years because it's the only way I know how to fix Windows.
I'd rather stick my head in the rotating blades of a combine harvester than deal with HP printer drivers...
- Well, you've got me on that one.
I have to use Windows and their extended malsoftware and I was checking if I could run some stuff necessary for my work on Linux but didn't find info. I'm so tired of how low quality and buggy Microsoft stuff is.
- And you aren't tired of being unable to find comparable software on Linux?
I'll take Linux hardware support over Microsoft any day of the week.
I'm really undecided on this. It really depends on the type of hardware, for example when dealing with graphics card drivers, especially nvidia I'll take windows over linux any day. On the other hand on Linux I don't have to install drivers for almost anything and things mostly just work unless the device is brand new.
I've been using all of the major OSs and they're all good and they all suck in their own way. Windows does suck a bit more than the others, but I don't think it's as terrible as diehard Linux fanboys make it out to be.
I still use Windows on my home PC because bideo gaems and music production. I'd prefer to use Linux instead but oh well it's not the worst thing.
- Gaming on Linux has gotten to the point that if it won't play on linux, I just shrug and play something else. Their are more native games, and games that aren't native usually run under Proton, Proton GE, or Wine. There's not much left that won't play.
  The Nvidia thing is less of a problem these days with distros like Nobara, Gardua, and Vanilla installing proprietary Nvidia drivers out of the box. Heck, you can even do it with almost 0 extra effort on plain Fedora.
  I can't help you with music production, though. Linux has some good stuff for that, but my understanding is that Mac and Windows are still the best choice.
  Anyway, like I said to someone else, everyone's different, and everyone's threshold for horse hockey gets set off by different things. It's all perspective, really.
  Unless you care about privacy. That one's more empirical than perceptual.
It's just when you have peripherals, you might just not find a driver for Linux at all
Fuck Goodix
- Sorry, I feel like I'm going to regret asking but… what?
I remember having some issues with Ubuntu 10 because I had a janky pentium 4 built out of scrap. I think it was an pci ide card I had issues with.

Linux will run on anything

Ps3. Raspberry pi. Phones. All computers ive ever tried to install it on.. and even M-chip macs.

I had a pile of old parts of all sorts of machines sitting in some boxes. Was poking through and thought "hang on"... Bing bang boom threw some bits together and built a new PC to run a jellyfin media server on Mint. Don't even know what most of the parts are...
Even the gotdam Leapfrog runs Linux
https://youtu.be/hZM2zpRA95E
- Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/hZM2zpRA95E
  Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
  I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.
Add PS4 to that
- That's the first time I've heard of that. For real, tho?
- Add PS2 to that https://youtu.be/DjGG-5343AY

The new CPU requirements for Windows 11 are why I wiped it and am now on Linux Mint. No dual-booting.

You need better eyesight then, because there are more than 2 in that photo
- He was talking about the 2 windows users

Wha? Even a bleeping potato can run Linux nowadays, with zero issues at day 1.

t. Got a Orange pi zero 3, and the lil' bastard is rocking solid -- even with (near zero) support.

Linux does support more CPU architecture (x86 Arm PowerPC RISC) while Windows only support x86 and some Arm CPU so technically Linux support more CPU but Windows does support more GPU and Plug and Play devices (controller, external sound card...)

Windows 11 inherently does not support my CPU because of their fake secure boot requirement. You have to have UEFI.
- Rufus USB can take care of that for you
I would probably rephrase it as "external plug 'n' play devices supporting Windows". You can be fairly certain Microsoft wasn't the one doing the work.
I've had way more plug-and-play success with USB-serial devices under Linux than Windows. Maybe just me though...
I've had zero issues with any of my plug and play usb devices. Elgato key light, stream deck, fiio DAC, scarlet solo audio interface, Logitech Webcam, steel series arctis usb headset, etc. All work great without any faffing about.
For stream desk and keylight you aren't using elgato's software but there are pretty good open source options I installed from the graphical package manager in my OS. The audio stuff just all worked when plugged in. I'm missing zero functionality from windows and spent a lot less time "setting up" everything compared to windows.
Even with x86 only, Linux supports more CPUs. For example, the Ryzen 5 1500x in my old PC isn't supported by Windows 11.

They have a point. I'm in the market for a new laptop and I have, so far, returned two of them.

First, I tried a Huawei Matebook 16. I was foolish, but I thought it was "easy". No NVidia, no dGPU at all - just part that looked very standard. It was based on the info I had gathered from a few years of Linux usage: "Basically avoid NVidia and you're good". It was anything but. Broken suspend, WiFi was horrible, random deadlocks, extreme slowness at times (as if the RYZEN 7 wasn't Ryzen 7-ing) to become less smooth than my 5 year old Intel laptop, and broken audio codec (Senary Audio) that didn't work at all on the live, and worked erratically on the installed system using generic hd-audio drivers.

I had a ~€1500 budget, but I raised it to buy a €1700 ThinkPad P16s AMD. No dGPU to speak of, sold with pre loaded Linux, boasting Canonical and Red Hat hardware certifications.

I had:

Broken standby on Linux
GPU bugs and screen flickering on Linux
Various hangs and crashed
Malfunctioning wifi and non working 6e mode. I dug, and apparently the soldered Wi-Fi adapter does not have any kind of Linux support at all, but the kernel uses a quirk to load the firmware of an older Qualcomm card that's kinda similar on it and get it to work in Wi-Fi 6 compatibility mode.

Boggles my mind that the 2 biggest enterprise Linux vendors took this laptop, ran a "thorough hardware certification process" on it and let it pass. Is this a pass? How long have they tried it? Have they even tried suspending?

Of course, that was a return. But when I think about new laptops and Windows 11, basically anything works. You don't have to pay attention to anything: suspend will work, WiFi will work, audio and speakers as well, if you need fractional scaling you aren't in for a world of pain, and if you want an NVidia dGPU, it does work.

Furthermore, the Windows 11 compatible CPU list is completely ~~unofficial~~ arbitrary, since you can still sideload Windows 11 on "unsupported" hardware and it will run with a far higher success rate than Linux on a random laptop you buy in store now. Like, it has been confirmed to run well on ancient Intel CPUs with screens below the minimum resolution. It's basically a skin over 10 and there are no significant kernel modifications.

To be clear: I don't like Windows, but I hate this post as a consumer of bleeding edge hardware because it hides the problem under the rug - most new hardware is Windows-centric, and Linux supported options are few and far between. Nowdays not even the manufacturer declaring Linux support is enough. This friend of mine got a Dell XPS 13 Plus Developer Edition, and if he uses ANY ISO except the default Dell-customized Ubuntu 20.04 audio doesn't work at all! And my other friend with a Dell XPS 13 Developer Edition has various GPU artifacts on the screen on anything except the relative Dell-customized Ubuntu 20.04 image. It's such a minefield.

I have effectively added €500 to my budget, to now reach an outrageous €2000 for a premium Linux laptop with no significant trade-offs (mostly, I want a good screen and good performance). I am considering taking a shot in the dark and pre ordering the Framework 16, effectively swaying from traditional laptop makers entirely and hoping a fully customized laptop by a company that has been long committed to Linux support will be different.

Blows my mind that anyone would use windows.

More important IMO is the fact that Linux re-detects hardware on every boot! Try moving a Windows hard drive to completely new hardware and getting it to boot. Not a chance...

I've done that multiple times without issue.
- The windows boot drive? Dont think thats possible anymore. If its completely new hardware.
  Im not sure what the trigger is but if enough hardware has changed it wont boot.
  I had to install windows fresh on a new hard drive when i bought a new pc last year.
That actually works fine since like XP
- Until it marks you as unlicensed because you used a new motherboard.
- Well, more like 7 onwards. XP was quite hit and miss unless you did a load of prep first.
- Yup. though for GPU drivers you'll need to cleanly reinstall them if you downloaded them separately from windows update (which is a requirement for most gaming GPU users)
  At least on linux its [insert distro command here] and it'll have your new drivers up and running for you without bloatware
- It must have stopped with Win11. Tried to upgrade one of my family members Laptop. Took the ssd from the old one, put it in the new Laptop and only got to the Windows rescue Window. With Linux. I can setup an ssd with my laptop and when setup, plug it into my headless server and everything works fine.

To be fair, Nvidia support on Linux has been historically quite poor, with users having to manually install drivers (something the average person shouldn't have to think about). Though even that has gotten much better recently, with Debian now allowing forks to have proprietary drivers built in.

I swear to god most of Windows Server’s tools have barely changed since NT 4.0
AD is the easiest in Windows. We can argue about DNS, but DHCP? You can't even change the subnet size after the fact without destroying and remaking the scope.
- Or Hod forbit managing IPv6 local space on Windows.

I know hardware compatibility has massively improved, but back when I was messing with Linux in high school compatibility was a huge issue. I managed to end up with two laptops and some desktop hardware that were truly difficult to get running. It's like I somehow found a list of incompatible hardware and chose the worst options.

The most frustrating were an evil Broadcom (I think) wireless card and an AMD switchable card (they did actually make a few). That graphics card wasn't supported for very long and was a bother even in Windows.

Edit to add: I was just saying that to point out why some people might have that opinion, even if it isn't valid anymore. I'm actually thinking of jumping back on the Linux bandwagon.

Linux will be my next OS. Win11 is a nightmare, and now with the huge progress Linux has made in the gaming space, is just a no brainer.
I'm not very experienced with it yet, but I did dial not it for a while back in college, back when Ubuntu's Feisty Fawn was the newest shit, and Edgy Eft was the more established version. I didn't do a whole lot with it, because I mainly used the PC to write papers for classes and gaming. And Linux gaming back then was mostly non existent.
But I did ok with using it for browsing and research and using LibreOffice to write the document. Actually had to manually write a cfg file to get the extra buttons on my mouse to work like they were supposed to.
Long story short, I don't have much knowledge of it these days, that was back in 04-06ish. But I know enough to know how to look for what I need. And I have a friend who's already made the switch for the same reason. I'm just paranoid to switch to it completely, as I've never done that, but I think I'll be building a new rig soon anyway, so I might just start fresh with Linux for that.
Either way I'll switch by the time Win10 ends support. I will not be installing 11 on anything of mine. I'll probably still have family that will need it, but I'm not doing it.
To be fair... Mac works 90% with Mac hardware. It's third party things that can screw you up... Like that pesky "USB" everyone is talking about. Who knew reading the official documentation and creating a USB driver for your own chipset would break all the USB devices not made by Mac? Who would have thought? At least there is an Intel emulation layer you can run in...
It's definitely worthwhile for me, although I keep windows around if I need it for work (rarely) or play (occasionally).
I use Lenovo laptops a lot anyways, so it's pretty straightforward to chose one that supports Linux.

The only real hardware problems I come across these days with Linux is WiFi cards being shit. As far as I'm concerned, carefully selecting hardware is a problem for the *BSDs at this point. Am I missing something?

Yep, really new hardware is still an issue.
My new Zenbook (AMD CPU/GPU) had pretty major issues until the chip family was around a year old.
Previous to this laptop, I always got older hardware when it went on sale (usually from Dell), chip sets and CPU's that have had a while to "mature" I never had any issues with. Except of course with Nvidia drivers, those are always shit.
If you stick with older hardware, you very likely wouldn't ever experience hardware issues.
I've been running various distributions at my primary OS since around 2006. Hardware support these days is amazing.
- Except of course with Nvidia drivers, those are always shit.
  Doesn't that depend on the distro? In most cases they should be supplied as a (meta)package and only require installation through the package manager, kernel modules should be built automatically then.
  While this is ofc only anecdotal evidence: I haven't had problems with different models of Nvidia GPUs on different distributions (OpenSUSE, Debian, Pop!_OS, Elementary, EndeavourOS) in the last years. With a small workaround, even Wayland works flawlessly - the problem with missing GAMMA_LUT support and night light notwithstanding here.
Am I missing something?
No. I think you are correct and mostly even wifi hardware works fine, at least compared to *BSDs. I use Linux across a wide-range of machines, both desktops and laptops, with mostly very recent components. The only other unsupported hardware I have personally come across is some gaming hardware (e.g. Thrustmaster racing wheels) and an add-on sound card (Soundblaster AE9). And of course, some things like DLSS3 with Nvidia do not work.
I bought a new PC recently and put Linux on it. It didn't work with the on-board Bluetooth until I did some research and digging through the logs and compiled and installed a kernel driver and edited some config files as root.
Also the fps on my Nvidia graphics card is really bad in games.
So it does still have driver issues, I'd say.
- Also the fps on my Nvidia graphics card is really bad in games.
  Are you sure you have the official Nvidia driver installed? Most Linux distros, if not explicitly configured otherwise*, use the open source "nouveau" driver by default. Since that driver doesn't support some vital aspects - such as frequency scaling - of the hardware, the performance is bad.
  *Some distros, like Pop! OS and EndeavourOS, offer a "Nvidia install", meaning that the official driver will be installed and configured upon OS installation.
- I would place the blame for poor driver support directly on the chip/device manufacturer and not on Linux (whoever that is).

People say that Nvidia just doesn't work right on Linux. I'd never know that except for everyone saying it. My desktop has Nvidia and all Linux distro I've tried on it are like perfectly fine. Yes for gaming also.

It's a combination of Nvidia not supporting mixed refresh rates and mixed DPIs until like really recently and the open source driver not being nearly as performant as the closed one.
Congrats, You've been blessed with good luck.
Doesnt invalidate other people (like me) who have had tons of trouble with trying to get nvidia cards working/nvidia drivers installed over the years. Even with new distros that bake the drivers in, like Pop!, I still had issues and and headaches that ultimately made it not worth the effort.
- What card do you run? I went from a 970 to a 3080ti and both drivers just automagically worked. The 970 used to have dkms issues but it randomly stopped at some point.
- Won't deny luck is involved. Everytime I turn any piece of technology on im amazed it works at all considering the fact it's all a cobbled together mess.
I've been running Linux for 100% of my productive work since about 1995. Used to compile every kernel release and run it for the hell of it from about 1998 until something like 2002 and work for a company that sold and supported Linux servers as firewalls and file servers etc.
I had used et4000's, S3 968's and trio 64's, the original i740, Matrox g400's with dual CRT monitors and tons of different Nvidia GPU's throughout the years and hadn't had a whole lot of trouble.
The Nvidia Linux driver made me despair for desktop Linux for the last few years. Not enough to actually run anything different, but it did seem like things were on a downward slide.
I had weird flashing of sections of other windows when dragging a window around. Individual screens that would just start flashing sometimes. Chunky slideshow window dragging when playing video on another screen. Screens re-arranging themselves in baffling orientations after the machine came back from the screen being locked. I had crap with the animation rate running at 60hz on three 170hz monitors because I also had a TV connected to display network graphs ( that update once a minute ). I must have reset up the panels on cinnamon, or later on KDE a hundred times because they would move to another monitor, sometimes underneath a different one or just disappeared altogether when I unlocked the screen. My desktop environment at home would sometimes just freeze up if the screen was DPMS blanked for more than a couple of hours requiring me to log in from another machine and restart X. I had two different 6gb 1060's and a 1080ti in different machines that would all have different combinations of these issues.
I fixed maybe half of the issues that I had. Loaded custom EDID on specific monitors to avoid KDE swapping them around, did wacky stuff with environment variables to change the sync behaviour, used a totally different machine ( a little NUC ) to drive the graphs on the TV on the wall.
Because I had got bit pretty hard by the Radeon driver being a piece of trash back in something like 2012, I had the dated opinion that the proprietary Nvidia driver was better than the Radeon driver. It wasn't til I saw multiple other folks adamant that the current amdgpu driver is pretty good that I bought some ex-mining AMD cards to try them out on my desktop machines. I found out that most of the bugs that were driving me nuts were just Nvidia bugs rather than xorg or any other Linux component. KDE also did a bunch of awesome work on multi monitor support which meant I could stop all the hackery with custom EDIDs.
A little after that I built a whole new work desktop PC with an AMD GPU ( and CPU FWIW ) . It has been great. I'm down from about 15 annoying bugs to none that I can think of offhand running KDE. It all feels pretty fluid and tight now without any real work from a fresh install.
- My next build as it stands will be AMD. of course who knows what will be good by the time I get to do that.
I have an nvidia discrete GPU in my laptop. It works fine.
I think that's probably a bit of misunderstanding. Nvidia doesn't work right in gamescope due to some missing vulkan extensions. Linux gaming is primarily focused around using gamescope as a compositor, specifically with gaming focused distros. You can see where the idea comes from following that trend.
But also, fuck you Nvidia.
I don't think I've heard very often that "Nvidia doesn't work right on Linux". It's more that it's missing features compared to Windows and because it's a closed source binary blob you have to wait for Nvidia to release a new driver every time a new kernel comes out.

Surely we can admit that Linux is ready for general population on the desktop? It's the better choice overall, but the barrier to entry is very high.

Edit: I mistyped and missed the word "not". It's "not ready for general population on the desktop". Sorry guys.

Ah yes... it is easy as long as you do something difficult first.

Reminds me of that comment on Dropbox where some guy said it's going to fail because he can easily build something similar with an ftp server.

I want to use Linux at the desktop, but I want HDR and Freesync support. Not sure if Linux supports either in a big way.

Freesync yes, HDR soon™
Freesync and any vrr for that matter is supported on Wayland and X.org. HDR is supported on sway and some other compositors, but I don't think there is too much adoption from apps yet
- VRR only works on Xorg if you only have 1 screen. And XWayland is broken on Nvidia.
Valve is working on HDR support for the steam deck's steamOS, which I assume will lead to other distroS following

Linux has better support for the long tail of hardware. Windows has better support for bleeding-edge hardware. The main reason for this is money.

Except for my AMD 1800x that was 4 years old when W11 launched and not supported.
- I hate to break it to you but 4 years old is nowhere close to “bleeding edge” when it comes to PC hardware.

Linux OSes have always been the ones to run on everything lol, it took Microsoft like a decade to make Windows run on ARM

Linux is cool and all but can it tell if I'm watching porn and suggest me other porn like windows 11?

I don’t think I’ve met anyone who enjoys windows 11 unless they’re like 75 years old and only click on google chrome and the power off button

For the most part there is practically no difference between 10 and 11 minus changes in UI and higher HW requirements. If someone liked 10, do not see why 11 would be different. Same in theory could be said about 8.1 and 10. Most of the UI changes are better IMO, but there are some annoyances mainly related to taskbar.
I believe the only thing that many could dislike and have impact on daily work, would be the new context menu. It can be swapped to old one, but as of now there is no easy setting / toggle for that.
- There's even more telemetry and built in ads with Win11 over Win10. If they're so similar otherwise, why would anyone upgrade to Win11?
- I highly recommend this little tool to get back the old taskbar and context menu:
  https://github.com/valinet/ExplorerPatcher
Honestly, my Win11 works well enough for my day 2 day use. I don't have to troubleshoot any random issues I may encountered in Linux (I use Nvidia). I turned off all the telemetry settings I could but let's be real, I am still using Google and all the big social media.
Win10 gave me more BSODs too. My only tip for the few Windows user here, do a fresh install instead of upgrade.
Linux desktop just ain't worth it for a gamer; when it works it's great, when it doesn't - I don't want to spend anymore of my limited time to fix or make it work.

You get to choose between hardware dependency hell and software dependency hell these days.

Why not both!
- This is Windows 7 users. I just can't understand them. Why use an old os for the feel and look of it when you can just use Linux and customize it to your liking. ( I know, I know software compability and such. )

I've used Linux on my private laptop for the past few years, never had any major issues. Work desktop is running Ubuntu, no major problems except for the odd bit of poorly maintained software (niche science things, so that's not really a Linux issue). Laptop breaks, I get a Windows 11 laptop from work...and I've had so many problems. Updates keep breaking everything, and I've had to do a factory reset more than once since the recovery after those updates also always failed. Wish I had my good old Linux laptop back :(

Windows 11 and its goddamn picky-ass CPU requirements... What the actual fuck, Microsoft? Did someone over there drink a tall glass of stupid juice and think, "Hey, let's royally piss off a chunk of our user base just because we can?" This is tech elitism at its absolute shittiest.

It’s like Microsoft's throwing a party, and instead of a guest list, they've got some half-baked, cockamamie CPU blacklist. "Oh, you're rocking a perfectly functional CPU from a few years ago? Tough titties! Go fuck yourself with a USB stick!"

This isn't progress; it’s goddamn techno-discrimination. It's like being invited to a buffet and then being told you can only eat if your fork is from the latest silverware collection. I mean, who's making these decisions over there? A drunk leprechaun playing darts with a list of CPUs?

Look, I get wanting to advance, to push the boundaries of what's possible. But this? It's like serving someone a gourmet meal and then punching them in the gut for not having the right kind of fucking taste buds.

Windows 11, with its bizarre-ass CPU criteria, is a masterclass in how to cock up a product launch. Dear Microsoft, next time you decide to drop a steaming turd of a decision on your users, at least have the decency to hand out some goddamn air fresheners, because this shit STINKS.

I just put Arch Linux on a tiny laptop that was struggling to run Windows 11 after an upgrade, and it runs smooth like butter now. Feels good.

Isn't the CPU support reason solely specific to a new feature Windows 11 was going to use, and you can just use Windows 10 while it's still in support? Plus Windows 10 knows this and won't even try to update your PC to windows 11?

It's not a really strong argument when most hardware drivers are made with Windows in mind first, and maybe someone is going to write up a Linux driver if they're interested. I mean Linux went for years having to do some hack&slash solution to broadcom drivers until they were finally added in. That affected at least 2 laptops in my lifetime.

I will stop to say that currently, I think Linux is in a good spot. But you can't just pretend the issue absolutely doesn't exist because your specific setup works.

I have found Linux to have excellent HW support for all older hardware. Only notable exception is fingerprint readers. Granted, it's been years since I tried gaming.

I don't think the fingerprint reader is the problem it is how the OS supports it. I tried with my framework laptop and it just stopped logging me in after a misread or something like that.
Funny anecdote about FP readers: got an XPS 13 for work. At first I tried to make do with Windows, and everytime I tried to register my fingerprints, the laptop rebooted instantly. Then I got fed up jumping through hoops to set up my workflow, installed Ubuntu, installed the FP reader driver, and it worked like a charm.
As for gaming, I finally got rid on Windows on my gaming PC (AMD GPU), and all my games work very nicely (I don't play multiplayer games). Most problems were fixed by selecting another proton version through Steam, biggest issue I had was manually updating the fucking Ubisoft launcher thing for AC Syndicate.
I don’t look up Linux compatibility for hardware, everything just works
If a game doesn’t support Linux then I don’t support the game
It’s like people trying to run Linux or Mac software on Windows - they just don’t do it.

Yall miss the point. Im guessing willfully. No average desktop user wants to be forced to use command line to do anything.

Linux will never see mainstream desktop usage.

My mom is in her 70s, never has been techy, and has been using Linux as her daily driver for a solid eight years now. I have to do less troubleshooting for her now that she's on Linux than I ever did when she used Windows. "You have to use the command line" is an extremely outdated criticism of desktop Linux.
- Yup. I got relatives started on Mint dual booted with Windows. They don't use Windows as Linux just works.
I've been using various distros for the past 6 months trying to find the right fit for my work. I do remote desktop support of many windows based enterprises.
I use Linux desktop every single day for 8 hours. I also play games of all sorts.
KDE neon was what I had when I started out and it was great. Zero problems. There's no reason you'd ever need CLI in plasma desktop that I can see. Fedora/plasma is a no go. Too complex with selinux and you really do need to know what you're doing. Still quite usable for 90% of day to day
For the past month I've been on mint 21 and have had zero issues and zero CLI time. Been enjoying baldurs gate 3 out of the box, using outlook, teams, various browsers and whatnot. Not going to give a comprehensive list here, but everything works perfectly and almost everything has been installed straight from the software manager.
I've installed ZorinOS on a non tech savvy friends computer so she could get more life out of her old laptop and she was fine without using any terminal
The average Linux distro doesn’t need to use command line for anything. Literally just click on Firefox or google chrome and you’re done lol.
As for gamers, if you take 5 hours to mod games but cant learn to use CLI for 5 minutes then idk what to tell you chief. Though right now it won’t be mainstream because devs don’t want to update their anti cheats for Linux, not because of compatibility
The whole “waste time, value freedom” super duper complexity shit is just propaganda regurgitated by people who heard about Linux through a game of telephone, Hollywood, and YouTube videos. That’s not to say the Linux community is very good at marketing or giving troubleshooting suggestions for tech illiterate people
- Not true at all. In my experience just about everything I need to do must be installed via cli on Ubuntu, following sometimes a page long guide of shit to do.
U dont need command line on most just works distros for average use ! My brother and my mom use linux mint and ubuntu on their PCs and it just works !
- Anything more than web browsing and yeah, you really do.
GUI alternatives are constantly improving and becoming more visually pleasing throughout distros, and besides, there's real scenarios where normal people HAVE to use Powershell or CMD to get stuff done on Windows. This is becoming less and less of a hurdle.
It wasn't always the case. Windows 3x gui had to be started from a dos prompt. But this anti cli sentiment swings both ways for all OS's.
The bigger issue I have though is a general unwillingness to learn how to do things beyond click icons for apps. Devices now are engineered to be as simple as possible. Which ya, for most people is fine. But these devices in turn are generally way more challenging to fix. So it encourages just buying a new one instead. Creating more ewaste for something that should be easier to fix, all because of software, or physical assembly.
- a general unwillingness to learn how to do things beyond click icons for apps
  I'd say "a general unwillingness to learn how to do things", period.
I think you're right. For the average desktop user, it's more about being able to use the software they need, without a terminal.
I think that desktop in linux has advanced a lot in the last few years, and now I'm running my games on a KDE desktop, too! But I keep having to go to the terminal to do stuff I took for granted on other systems, like OS security updates.
- What OS security updates are you doing from the terminal?
- The linux developers have done an awesome job and linux has come so far it's amazing. But for the vast majority of computer users they don't even know what a terminal is, period, and linux is useless to them unless a Linux user sets it up for them for a very specific use case and that's all they ever do with it.
  If all they want is an email and web appliance, a typical computer ignorant user can use linux if it is given to them by someone else.
  Yet an ignorant computer user can go and buy a Mac or a windows machine from a retailer and get the job done without having to know anything at all other than they want a computer for x y or z.
  Its like the linux developers can't fathom a PC experience without the terminal as a vital participant.
noob
I think an issue is that people tend to think of Linux as meaning "all distributions." So if something is compatible with X distro version yy.zz, the general idea is "it's compatible with Linux." This, in my experience, is one of the things that leads to mandatory command-line usage --- it definitely is possible to get it to work under a different flavor of Linux, but it's not necessarily easy if you're uncomfortable with a command line.
Another is drivers --- if it's mainlined, it will Just Work, but if it's not...well, it may work, but you might have to jump through hoops and get busy with the command line.
In short: if you view your distro the same way you view a particular Windows release, then I really don't think you need the command line for desktop Linux. But you need to accept that some software isn't "compatible," in the above, user-friendly sense of the word.
- There is no such operating system as Linux, but there are operating systems built on top of the kernel called Linux. In other words, Linux (a kernel) is not an alternative to Windows (an operating system), but a specific Linux-based OS could be.
  IMO it would help if we stopped pretending that Linux is an operating system unto itself and started promoting the actual operating systems that are built on Linux. I see people in this thread arguing over whether "Linux" is user-friendly or not and it's meaningless because they aren't actually talking about Linux, but rather some unspecified thing that runs on top of Linux, and may not even be talking about the same thing.
I tend to agree, but more because I think that Linux needs a killer feature to convince people to switch and privacy aint it for most people.
- that killer app is soon going to be "doesn't have advertising in every menu"
You can use Ubuntu and Zorin just fine without the terminal.
- You can do this with many distros today. It must have been many years since this person tried Linux.
- Until you try to use a flash drive and nothing can see the default mount point. You can web browse and that's about all
Linux doesn't force you to use the command line for anything. It's optional.
Agreed. Also from a Tech support POV, there is no "standard" OS and troubleshooting the vast different environments would be a pain. With Windows, you have a standard layout, with couple different versions - Home / Pro / Enterprise. With linux, you have different syntax, differnt DE's, etc. Still use Linux at home / work but i am interested in it. Got to have that motivation to do so.
Same thing with moving to Lemmy, gotta have that motivation to make the change.
- Imagine having to do family tech support on the phone while driving with Linux. Especially if everyone in the family decided to use their freedom and now everyone runs a totally different distro.
That command line sure comes in handy when you're trying to help someone do something and you can just send them a one-liner to paste into the terminal rather than have to show a series of screenshots "click this > then this > this this and this> This checkbox >this menu"
As soon as a distro has a control panel equivalent that has stuff like a driver manager and event log it's all over
- They do
- You might be surprised to learn that multiple distros have control panel equivalent of driver managers and event logs.
- People without much OS knowledge use windows because that's what's installed on the PC when they buy it. If best buy sold a PC with a just works distro installed they'd use it and not really know or care
- I know Ubuntu has had that for a while, which means that others probably have as well.
I could see ChromeOS killing off Windows somehow. It's already huge.
I don't know... Debian 12 or latest Fedora (ugh) are pretty darn idiot proof. CLI doesn't really enter into the picture on those if you don't want it to. And, your computer won't have to be tossed out for another 10 years.
I'm personally just getting back into Linux after a 20-year hiatus, and configuring/compiling Gentoo from the ground up has definitely given me a different perspective on computers.
In general, almost all Linux distros stem from 3 primary distributions: Debian, Arch and Fedora. (The outliers would be things like Void, Gentoo and Slackware.) All of these other distros that "just work" are, for the most part, skins of those primary 3 with different apps pre-installed.
Kali? It's Debian. Ubuntu? It's Debian. Mint? It's either Ubuntu (which itself is Debian) or now Linux Mint Debian Edition. The "look and feel" of a distro has nothing inherently to do with that distro.
What they all have in common is that the eye-candy Desktop Environment is there to provide a "friendlier" interface than a CLI - but there is nothing a DE can do that the native terminal can't.
I've also found it's just faster/easier to install things via terminal than browse through an artificial "app store."
Maybe I'm moving away from the idea of a desktop environment in general, in favor of a Window Manager that just handles putting programs in floating windows in a black space.
wrong.
m$ pc will vanish. the kids that do socialmedia where i work do it all on iphone. record, cut, make audio. or some other apple device. while there are enough boomers to explain active directory to them, they aint listening as they are sure to never touch windows unless they are into hardcore gaming and casemodding. other than that windows is dead.
- Windows will more than survive on corporate and enterprise licenses purchased by the thousands daily. The integration of their cloud services like SharePoint into mass subscriptions of office 365 is enough for Microsoft to not care about some niche influencer market. Besides multimedia editing software was always dominated by Apple which Microsoft specifically brought back from bankruptcy specifically to avoid an anti-trust case. They don't want that corner of the market and never have.
  Linux desktops will never be able to take over unless corporations start installing it for all of their employees. Which again is unlikely considering large corporations don't like change especially in their revenue.

I officially switched my desktop and server to Linux. If I could switch my work computer I would. I bought a MacBook Air recently because I didn’t know Linux laptops were getting so popular. But I like the Mac and can still do some Linux like stuff in the terminal.

Just wish I could stop windows use at work.

My shoe can practically run Linux as a desktop OS.

Though to be fair, there's no real reason anything that runs 10 can't run windows 11 besides Microsoft's artificial compatibility list.

As long as you dont use nvidia linux works really well.

Even that is a myth nowadays. Wayland is still hit and miss, but with x11, it's as good as Intel or AMD.
And, if the guys at System76 keep their promises (and historically, they have), with the release of COSMIC, even that will be fixed for good :)
- How is a desktop environment gonna fix Nvidia being incompatible with Wayland?
- Well yeah on x11 its pretty good but on wayland its hell. And i use wayland -_-.
Got a Nvidia card. Never had a issue on Linux.
I don't use NVIDIA because of its appalling treatment of the Linux community. Even Microsoft is friendlier to us.

I'd love to switch to Linux. I've used Linux off and on for almost two decades now. At one point I was triple booting Windows XP, Windows 7, and Fedora. The one thing holding me back is, strangely enough, game compatibility. I know Proton has made huge strides as I've seen it first hand on the Steam Deck, a lovely little machine. The problem is, I have a huge library, and while I'm okay with slightly less than ideal performance here and there on the Deck (40hz mode anyone?), I absolutely refuse to lose any performance due to running Linux. Benchmarks still show some titles losing 5-15% performance when running through Proton.

Don't get me wrong. I love FOSS. I donate and try to spread the word as much as I can when I find a passion project, and find it particularly useful. Even though this may seem to go against what I previously said, I'm debating on switching to Linux when Windows 10 loses support. I do not want to enable fTPM on my motherboard or update my BIOS if I don't have to. My PC is stable, no thank you. I feel like I'll have to troubleshoot whether I choose Linux or Windows 11. Ugh.

Windows 11 on a Pentium 4 - barely usable, though

A good linux distro(32 bit if needed) will run a lot faster!

Now I'm interested in seeing that Win11 $upported CPU list. Anyone got the full link?

- Most of the unsupported CPUs are based on their TPM support. Windows can boot on much older CPUs if you bypass TPM.
  That being said, Windows already chugs on current gen hardware depending on your usecase so I'm not gonna recommend you try it lmao.

Can confirm, Mint was easier to set up and have everything working than Windows. Couldn't believe Linux had better driver support. What a world.

I'll probably transition my AMD 8350 build over to Linux when Win10 stops being supported. As opposed to my mom's FX-8370 build, which I'll probably just have to replace with a new Windows 11 system, as there's no way I'm expecting her (an elderly woman) to learn anything other than Windows. Especially since she's reliant on Windows-only apps.

The actual hardware she's using will probably be converted to a Linux Desktop, but I'll have to migrate her data to a new mini Windows 11 PC or something.

There's not a lot of things that stupid people can say, that would genuinely frustrate me, but when you make uneducated, factless statements, and then decide to fanboy about something in the same sentence, that genuinely frustrates me

I try using Linux on my desktop PC from time to time. Whenever I buy a new rig, I try Linux, as I want to reinstall the system anyway. It never worked. I always tried with brand new hardware -> something is not properly supported -> install current windows. Rinse and repeat every 4 or 5 years whenever I get my hand on a new desktop or laptop. That never changed for the last 20 years.

- I mean it's not surprising if theyre not actively trying to troubleshoot their problems. I run Linux on both my desktop and laptop and I never had a perfect experience with either. On my laptop a few years ago I tried installing Ubuntu but my trackpad sensitivity on linux was way too high with no easy way to change it. I also needed fractional scaling and at the time Ubuntu used X11, I found some command on the Ubuntu forums to enable scaling in the settings and it gave me screen tearing. After a few hours of playing around with different commands I gave up and weny back to Windows.
  On my desktop I use Nvidia and have two monitors with different refresh rates. That causes a lot of issues and I just have to put up with it.
  Edit: I use Arch on both of them now and have found solutions to my problems but especially my laptop issues were very annoying.
- Most likely. There are distros that just works namely Mint. Follow the official guide and the computer is ready for use in less than an hour. And 'for the last twenty years'? I just don't believe it.
- Desktop linux was my daily driver from about 2006 to 2016, then I was dual booting from 2019 to 2021 or so before it became my daily driver again. Choosing Linux-friendly laptop hardware is a compromise.
  From 2006-2009, I had a few issues with a shitty wifi driver. Then I bought a "built for Linux" laptop that worked well enough for my purposes, but still had a few minor limitations: shittier battery life, no Bluetooth, and a video card that NVIDIA eventually dropped support for. Even when using the proprietary driver, I couldn't use Wayland or KMS. During that era, it took a while for font rendering to look as good as Windows, and it never quite caught up with font rendering on Macs.
  Then I bought another laptop and had to deal with trying to get the user experience with High DPI screens not to suck (it's OK now, but took a while to get here). I don't have a Wifi 6E access point yet but I've seen from the forums that it's sometimes buggy with the 6E channels.
  Basically, Linux support for laptop hardware and experience seems to lag behind, and actively selecting for best Linux compatibility is also a seriously limiting filter when buying hardware.
You are doning it wrong. Whenever I buy new hardware, I read up on linux support before. Formated my last windows partition at home 5 years ago.
- This. No one would buy an arbitrary computer and expect MacOS to run on it, for example. Buy a computer with known Linux support. Ask the vendor.
- Nah. The OS is not important enough to me. I buy according to specs and price/performance-ratio. If Linux won't easily run, I will just run windows on it. It's only the OS after all.
when you say "something is not properly supported" what do you mean? like nvidia/amd haven't released graphics drivers yet for linux? or some peripheral isn't recognized?
basically, by buying new hardware just after it launches, you're effectively one of the very first people to boot that hardware with linux. you can usually make it work but most hardware manufacturers don't work with the linux devs to make sure support is in place. so devs have to get ahold of the hardware retail and then fix whatever is broken. the exception to this is AMD and Intel - both companies have people working on linux so they will merge support for new hardware into the kernel before that new hardware is even announced to the public. so if you stick to cpus and video cards from those two manufacturers, you'll make your linux life easier.
even then, though, the support might exist in the latest version of the kernel, but the last Ubuntu or Mint release is still several versions behind. so you're effectively forced to use a distro that releases updates much faster (ie rolling release), or be willing to make modifications to the system post-install to get it to work.
tl;dr: you've got a constellation of requirements that can't all be met at the same time. either give it 3 to 6 months after release of new hardware or be willing to learn how to make it work. expecting software to work with hardware it hasn't yet been designed to work with is always going to be a recipe for failure.
- either give it 3 to 6 months after release of new hardware or be willing to learn how to make it work. expecting software to work with hardware it hasn’t yet been designed to work with is always going to be a recipe for failure.
  No thanks. I can't be bothered with that. I'll just run windows.
Linux is open source and often only donation financed. They can't always support brand new hardware. If you want support for your hardware you have to pay a company to do it for you (or do it your self if possible)
One thing to note is that there are different distributions some of wich use older software an focus on stability (debian for example) and some use bleeding edge software (arch for example)
I did the same thing starting probably around the same time as you except that did it start working for me 5 years ago and I haven't gone back to windows.
I actually switched my desktop from Windows 3.11 to Linux. It's always worked fine to me (even if it was a bit hand on at the start) on vast numbers of hardware configurations. I've never used Windows for actual data since, only for games (not really an issue nowadays).

Just the other day I was posting complaining about a thing I was trying to do that should have been simple but Linux made really hard for some reason. Still prefer it to Windows tbh.

Oh, that's why I moved from W10. My audio card refused to work with this OS. The solution: go back to W8.1 which I just skipped as hell. I could never get rid of that problem in W10, BSOD as soon as it rebooted into W10. No matter what I tried, couldn't debug the problem. Fuck it, Linux may be complicated, but at least you end up knowing what's going on. I can't go back to not knowing.
The other day, I dug out an old scanner to use. No mac drivers ever and no Win10 drivers. Worked on my Mint laptop with no drivers to install.

Oh, another Linux circlejerk. Man I like my Debian but this stuff is so obnoxious…

I guess I don't see it as a circle jerk. It seems more that there are a bunch of windows fans that haven't tried Linux in the last 5 or 10 years (or ever) trying to convince the Linux community that Linux has a bunch of pitfalls and shortcomings that we don't seem to run into.
Reminds me of the idiot software devs at my work who break their Ubuntu install every third day and claim they know everything

The company I work at only works with windows Servers

One word: printers. Linux isnt event plug and pray, it just detects it.

Linux is just all around snappier for me than windows is. I never have to wait, but on windows there are always delays opening windows and for some reason it will keep trying to generate thumbnails.

I really hate using windows. I’m a worse worker because of it. I’m just waiting for the m3 Macs to switch.

Sadly, my work stuff does not work on Linux. So I have a second computer for most of my work.

Yeah, this is what I don't understand about windows. I get that as an IT professional, I don't have a much of patience for sluggish system and that average users might not care that much about system responsiveness, but from my anecdotal experience, it has started to bug the average user too.
Even on a high-end device, windows just doesn't feel smooth at all. And for some reason, it seems to get worse with every major release. How can you be a major industry leader, have users with more and more performative hardware, but your software seems to perform worse and worse?
Uh that may only be animation time you can remove that (i think). Or you have outdated hardware

Well, I did have the issue of horrible range on my Qualcomm WiFI Drivers under linux leading to shitty WiFi range overall. Eg. Laptop just below WiFi router and it shows 90% range.

Wi-Fi is pretty atrocious even with Windows or macOS in my experience. I hard-wire everything I can.
- Nah, the same laptop on W10 had a lot better WiFi range.

I tried to daily Linux on my laptop but gave up because it didn't support the fingerprint reader or the speakers. Windows 11 drains the battery faster and feels sluggish more often.

Been meaning to transition to a distro with a focus on being pretty low maintainance yet not too top heavy, leaving Windows to a VM on my Proxmox server. Haven't gotten around to it yet, since I'd need to get the server a dedicated graphics card.

Could just use WINE, I suppose, but I'm assuming it's still as rough as it was last time I messed with it twelve years ago.

Yep, absolutely nothing has changed in the past 12 years.
Valve joined the scene but they just cracked a beer with the devs and are gonna wait their own 12
more stuff just works, if it doesn't, you might be able to fix it but it's rough.

I use Windows for work and gaming, MacOS for app development (mostly because I can code for iOS and Android in one environment), and ChromeOS for my daily browsing.

I just enjoy how chrome always works when I need to just browse the internet or buy something online without issue.

Linux desktop is garbage. Devs should focus their efforts elsewhere.

deleted

ITT: Linux users in denial.

Linux will never be anywhere close to plug and play for anything in the way Windows is, whether we're talking games, applications, AD, etc... At least not for a very, very long time. Windows has about 40 years of development and is tried and true by the masses worldwide. You don't have to be a master level 1337 h4xor to do anything in Windows, while you can't do about 70% of what you can do on Windows with Linux without being an advanced power user.

Linux is great for some stuff, but unless there's massive upgrades to where you can just hit "install" and something installs and works without fucking around in terminal, it will never see widespread adoption. Hell, half of my users can't even figure out how to use a goddamn Mac, and that's much more user friendly than any Linux kernel. You guys are delusional if you think otherwise.

Also, I've yet to see a single Linux kernel that is aesthetically pleasing on anywhere near the level of OSX or Windows 11... Or Windows 10... Or hell, 7, 8, and Vista lmao. Looks like a potato OS that was mocked up for some shitty low budget SyFy channel movie. Every single kernel I've ever seen. Even the ones that supposedly are "so nice looking bro I swear it looks better than 11 bro please why isn't anyone switching to Linux don't you guys want to learn a programming language to play games seriously bro it's so easy it just works bro broooo."

Also, I've yet to see a single Linux kernel that is aesthetically pleasing
Hmm...
Does lemmy have copypasta community?
lol, is this copypasta?
- Even if it isn't, this is going to be one, I'll put this as my "Windows is better than Linux copypasta"
I’ve yet to see a single Linux kernel that is aesthetically pleasing on anywhere near the level of OSX or Windows 11… Or Windows 10… Or hell, 7, 8, and Vista lmao.
The fact that you're using the terms "kernel" and "aesthetically pleasing" in the same sentence (and equating that to GNU/Linux "Proper") leads me to believe that you don't understand what a kernel is. Or really know what you're talking about, for that matter...
Sometimes I think you're right, but at least once a year I have to use/install/repair Windows and my mind is absolutely blown by how bad it is
Also you're literally wrong about aesthetics to the point it's objective so I won't bother on that
Dude I fucking hate those Linux ubernerds, and think that "looks shitty" is almost a Hallmark of your classic Linux application, but... you have no idea what you're talking about. (...Also I don't think you know what a "kernel" is.)
"40 year head start" is one hell of a fallacy. As if MS and Apple from 1983 are meaningfully related (in this sense) to what they are and do now.
The fundamental difference, anyway, is cross-platform compatibility. What percent of Linux users even use desktop office suites and shit like that? The desktop world has been moving to the browser for 15+ years and both Chrome and Firefox are practically identical on every OS.
Linux has a long way to go, but the stuff you were listing is madness.
while you can’t do about 70% of what you can do on Windows with Linux without being an advanced power user.
You clearly have no idea of what you're talking about.
Also, I’ve yet to see a single Linux kernel that is aesthetically pleasing on anywhere near the level of OSX or Windows 11… Or Windows 10… Or hell, 7, 8, and Vista lmao.
You also clearly have no idea what the fuck a kernel is.
- I want one of these asthetically pleasing kernels. I feel robbed.
What?? Are you criticizing the kernel (which you can but with actual arguments) or the esthetics of the UI which has absolutely nothing to do with the kernel? You don't seem to understand what is a kernel
You don't even know what a kernel is, and I doubt you've seen any modern desktop environments. There's nothing wrong with linux, there's not development that needs to be done to fix it, the vast majority of issues I experienced were just a few windows apps or games not having good linux support. This isn't a fault of linux, it's the fault of the developers behind those apps and games. Also when I want to install something on Linux, I simply open discover and search for it then install. Anything not easily found in discover is most likely for more tech savvy power users anyways
Linux is great for some stuff, but unless there's massive upgrades to where you can just hit "install" and something installs and works without fucking around in terminal
https://i.imgur.com/JFbxr3a.mp4
Wait what!? I just mark file as executable, run as program, and click nex then install.
Also on a more serious note, how easy is it to find apps on the software store too (yes, because most linux distros offer a software store now)
Agreed completely. After a fresh Windows 10 installation, and installing most recent drivers, I was able to download and play my Itch.io games after about an hour, hour and a half maybe. In Linux I have to make sure I get a properly performing or game optimized version of Arch, install Nvidia drivers, hope Optimus or whatever the internal/dedicated video card switcher is called now, install Lutris, hope the Lutris install script functions, install Steam, install Proton Glorious Eggroll version, enable Linux Proton beta and move GE to it, install Borderlands 2 and research why I'm getting 13-15 frames per second, do that for about a week, and then reinstall Windows. The above also is true for getting Pipewire and Wayland working for sound with my audio input device and lament that I didn't get hardware that was tested beforehand to work with in-kernel drivers. Then find someone's Github to install an interface because Pipewire broke itself or isn't picking up my mic or broke itself with Discord.
- MoFo gets Arch and then cries about getting just the very basic operating system. lmao
- I don't use a game optimised version of arch, I also use NVIDIA hardware, and I have no problems. I run a single monitor and have no need for Wayland at this point in time. X11 just works.
  However, I game on desktops. My laptop is for work and that runs an Intel iGPU. It also runs Linux, without problems.
- Just use nobara. Arch isn't really for casual users who haven't used Linux. Download steam and enable steam play for all titles in your settings. Proton ge isn't necessarily always needed, but if you want it just download protonup-qt to easily install it. Use lutris for non-steam games, and optionally heroic games launcher instead of lutris for epic games. You make Linux sound complicated by separating every little step, as if multiple of those aren't windows things too...
  After a fresh nobara installation, and installing most recent drivers, I was able to download and play my steam games in an hour, hour and a half maybe. On windows I have to run a debloat script to optimize performance, make sure drivers are up to date, download the steam installer, click through the installer, download my game, then look up why random windows background services are randomly taking up CPU space. On Linux I just open discover, download steam, enable steam play for all titles, then download and play my games without any preinstalled apps and unnecessarily resource hogging background services.