Biden supporters mostly back him in 2024 election because they oppose Trump, poll finds
Biden supporters mostly back him in 2024 election because they oppose Trump, poll finds
It's stunning that each party managed to find a candidate that could lose against the other.
Its not that stunning. In fact, its more common than you'd guess.
Only Ford could lose to Carter. Only Dukakis could lose to Bush. Only Hillary could lose to Trump. Hindsight 20/20. Foresight blind as a fucking bat.
Ford did himself in. Apparently in 1976, American's didn't like the fact that the President could commit crimes while in office and get off with a pardon from his former VP. Crimes he was never charged with or convicted of.
Today, a scandal is like a badge of "honor" and being a convicted criminal and morally bankrupt sleezeball is basically a requirement for the Presidency. At least it is if you're a Republican.
But bats aren’t blind
If the election was today, Biden would lose. Imagine if Trump wasn't the nominee for November, the GOP would win the presidency.
Edit: it's just reality according to the current polling.
according to the current polling
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: the polls are likely skewed towards the GOP, and it's thought that this is because of random text/calls, which boomers are more likely to respond to.
B-B-Biden bad! You really got to get it in huh.
If you think polling relates to reality then look into polling and how it doesn't.
The existence of Project 2025 makes all of the "which candidate is better?" discussion completely irrelevant. If you support the people that support Project 2025 then you're a bootlicker who wants to end popular representation in the government and replace it with authoritarianism. If you are vocally against the people who oppose Project 2025 then you are collaborating with the enemy.
Any other option is better.
Meanwhile Project 2025 on the Democrat side is the codename for the medical advances being pursued to keep Biden functioning through to 2025.
(I kid of course, you're absolutely right, as depressing as that is)
You kid, but we all know this walking corpse is on the best amphetamines our top medical scientists can whip up in the lab.
The existence of Project 2025
Republicans have a shitty pre-election plan in the run up to every election. This isn't any different than every other election cycle, from the perspective of "Bad Republicans promise to do bad things".
Any other option is better.
The illusion of electoral choice is choking the life out of any actual democracy in this country. Time and time again, we're told which party is The Worst and that Anyone Else Would Be Better. That's how Trump won in 2016 ffs. Republicans doomed themselves to a decade of this manic fascist bumblefuckery by whipping themselves into an "Anyone but Hillary!" feeding frenzy.
If you are vocally against the people who oppose Project 2025 then you are collaborating with the enemy.
You're either with us, or you're with the terrorists!
Republicans have a shitty pre-election plan in the run up to every election.
This understatement is right up there with the 'Tis but a scratch scene from Monty Python
The illusion of electoral choice is choking the life out of any actual democracy in this country.
Ok so what's your plan to fix it? Because I have one: vote for people that want to improve the electoral system and against those that want to prevent it from improving. As much as Democrats are "part of the problem", they've also been open to runoff voting, switching to a national popular vote, easier voting mechanisms, and other changes that would allow for third parties and better representation. Republicans, meanwhile, have been trying to prevent those changes, as they've done in 5 states now where they banned ranked choice voting.
To be fair though, Trump is more open to changing the electoral process. The only problem is, he wants to get rid of voting entirely and remove any option we have to prevent rule by wealthy oligarchs like himself.
I mean yes, the people who are pushing 2025 are literally using threats, violence, and the threat of violence (legal and extra-legal), so you are correct.
Not wanting biden to commit genocide isn't collaborating with the enemy, that's what you're doing by shutting down discussion of that. Republicans want more Palestinians dead, and you're helping to give them what they want. What's so cool about genocide that you think people should shut up and just take it? What a cool smart moral guy you are, calling people bootlickers if they don't quietly accept genocide
Your comment would carry a whole lot more weight if we didn't have this shitty FPTP system...but we do.
In this system, it's a vote for a shitty Democrat or a vote for authoritarianism.
Biden isn’t “committing genocide” and saying he is amounts to simple propaganda.
The conservatives want to take aid away from Ukraine to deliver it to Israel. If Trump wins, far more weapons will be going to Israel than they are now. Repeating propaganda like this is not helpful for the Palestinian people.
Lastly, Israel is an important ally from a strategic perspective. Not only are they our closest ally in the Middle East, but they have a number of important resources like intel semiconductor facilities. Cutting ties with Israel would be bad for America, and the role of the US government is to put America first. It’s more complex than simply supporting one side or the other and Biden is attempting to balance aid for Palestine with preserving our relationship with Israel. That’s exactly what a good president should be doing.
Biden doesn't want to do anything about gaza, but Trump wants to bomb the west bank too. That means I support less genocide and you support not doing anything to prevent more genocide. That makes you a racist traitor.
I think Trump retiring and the Republicans replacing him with a charismatic, young, intelligent christofascist would be devastating for the Democrats (and humanity) right now and I don't know why they don't do it.
For that matter I don't see why Democrats don't replace Biden with a charismatic, young, intelligent social democrat which would be equally devastating for republicans. So who knows with these people.
They don't do it because it doesn't serve them personally. As we have seen time and time again, politicians are mostly griftfers that will flip on a dime and change their moral compass just so that they can benefit from the situation.
Charismatic + Young + Intelligent + Christofascist...
0 results found.
I think Republicans might need to remove one search criterion to make that work.
As for Dems... that might just be AOC? Lol
You're right. DeSantis would've been catastrophic if he wasn't such a little weirdo with no charisma.
I would love to vote for AOC. She will be old enough to run next year, but it will be four years before the next election.
I'd love to vote for AOC too
I mean there's definitely intelligent enough people who just want to use people
I don't think you'll be happy with the one Republicans choose to get rid of.
I think one of the big things is the MAGA voters vote for Trump and ONLY Trump. They don't turn out for elections without him in it. The Republicans know that without the MAGAs, they're not gonna win the presidential election.
Also this is purely theory but I wouldn't be surprised if Russia gives Trump information he can blackmail Republicans with. I'm sure Russian honeypots have dug up a lot of stuff over the years.
Maga is a cult of personality. The Republicans' fear is they won't turn out for anyone but Trump.
As for the Democrats, the line they always give is that social democrats can't win elections, but honestly, I think the party elite is afraid of what would happen if they did.
.
Not saying I take everything Biden says at face value but he has stated that he wouldn't be running if Trump wasn't. I think there is sound rationale behind it though. Trump just flings shit all over everything, Biden has already been through it. Why expose a promising young candidate to that? Next election cycle the GOP primary candidates are going to be trying to out trump and whoever is going to be the dem candidate will be looking that much better because of the shit the GOP smeared all over themselves.
The point I'm making is more than a little devils advocate though. Dems need to address the enthusiasm gap, it seems like theyre going to be leaning on the grassroots movement from pro-choice groups. Fingers crossed it's effective.
Charismatic, intelligent people don't need fascism nearly as much as dumbfucks do but even for the few who get sucked in anyway, there's easier and more self-serving ways to express it than a grueling, always-on position in the Republican party.
But ultimately the answer to both "why don't they run someone actually good" questions is "because it would be a threat to neoliberals and their record profits".
Neolibs can't countenance that their darling politicians are actually right of Nixon, let alone admit it.
Because the cult is about the man, not the idea. Ron DeSantis tried to be just that (not saying he holds any of those qualities that you mentioned, just that he tried) and failed because no one cares about what Trump actually stands for (when you listen to Trump supporters talk about him, you’d think they would actually vote for democrats considering the issues they bring up—barring the worst of the worst racist, homophobic deranged individuals of course). At the end of the day, they just care about their god-lord little-hand long-tie orange-faced crybaby and the made-up grievances he’s had to endure and how that somehow translates to their own impending persecution.
The reason the Democratic Party hasn’t does that is they hold the monopoly on milquetoast impotence in governing, as their corporate overlords have decreed.
There's a possibility that this would provoke demobilization among Trump voters.
That’s a good thing. Fuck cars.🚗
They don't have anyone nearly as good as him. People give Trump a lot of shit, deservedly so, but he's one hell of a politician. Nobody can galvanize their base like he does.
Yeah. Agree 100%. His greatest political victory was to convince people that a born wealthy real estate clown is an "outsider" to politics that can relate to the common folk. A true outsider would be an engineer, doctor, scientist, etc. Someone that doesn't have the ability to increase their wealth by millions with minor tweaks in the law.
Ever notice that corpo speak and political speak are exactly the same. Like how they can both run circles around any question without ever answering it? Yeah.
The worst part is that he's only a "good politician" because the system is so horribly broken.
These old stodgy dudes have two things going for them that young guys don't (yet) have - a lifetime of building a support network of donors and mastery at playing "the game".
They should retire at 60 and pass along their donors and skills to a few proteges, but recently they cling until the very last breath.
It would still be better then trump but i would like to see a party that doesn’t suck since we have a two party system with 0 good options which is why im voting for biden despite hating him (rather incompetent then malicious)
The USA really needs preferential voting, like what Australia has: https://www.chickennation.com/voting/
I have to assume the reason is because they don't have anyone. If they did they'd be relatively forefront in politics and you'd know about them.
Probably why the Republicans attacked AOC so hard and made sure all their followers knew exactly where they were supposed to stand in regards to her.
This is the current state of US politics - it's more about who you're against than who you're for, and I firmly believe this is the reason why no scandals seem to matter anymore.
On the conservative side, they get a steady stream of content telling them how horrible Biden and the Democrats are, so anyone with a heartbeat and an (R) next to their name is fine. It's probably how Trump of all people became the party leader.
Strategic voting is a direct result of first past the post voting; effectively any system that uses FPTP will result in a two party system where your vote gets used against the other person not for your choice.
I’ll continue to shill for ranked choice voting whenever I see any opportunity.
We desperately need it if we want reasonable candidates again.
I’m against all these assholes taking bribes from whoever they can and above all else ignoring the needs of their constituents. Recall them all!
On the progressive side, they get a steady stream of content telling them how horrible Trump and the Republicans are, so anyone with a heartbeat and an D next to their name is fine. It’s probably how Biden of all people became the party leader.
Sure, if you ignore all the progressives who hate Biden and protest his handling of Palestine constantly, you can pretend that both sides are lockstep behind dear leader.
You've clearly never asked a progressive how they feel about the Democrat party.
Exactly. I was just using the conservative side as my example because the post topic was already covering the progressive side.
boTh SIdes aRe The sAMe!!!
It’s probably how Biden of all people became the party leader.
That and getting the most primary votes.
"People voting for watching paint dry instead of poking sticks in their eyes appear to be mostly motivated by avoiding sticks...in their eyes."
It's more like getting slowly poked in the eye or quickly poked in the eye.
That was also true in 2020. And in 2016 for Hillary.
I have never whole heartedly supported the Democratic candidate (because I'm far more left than any of them have ever been), but I've always voted for them, because they're far better than the other option. This time they're just so far better than the other option, not because they are any better, but because the other option is so astoundingly worse. So, I guess, welcome to the club.
But I will say, Biden has been more progressive than any other candidate in my lifetime. Again, that's not saying much, but hey, it's better than nothing. He's just killing himself by supporting Israel.
This is sanest take I've seen on the matter. Good to see nuance is not dead!
But I will say, Biden has been more progressive than any other candidate in my lifetime.
I agree and I can remember every president since Nixon. Not one single president in the past 50 years has been better than Biden.
I supported them wholeheartedly for like a day when I moved from libertarianish something in my teens and early twenties to slightly progressive. I feel exactly the same.
Isn't this the general sad state of democracy? Specially in America and it's 2 party system?
Rarely people get to vote for whom they want, they vote against the one they dislike/fear the most
It's the sad state of democracy in all electorates that use demonstrably shitty voting systems like first past the post. Because those force you to vote strategically.
Lesser-of-two-evils-ocracy
You can choose compromised cult dictator rapist or genocide profiteering this election.
Important to note that the cult dictator part is exclusive to one party, while the genocide is baked in to the entire system. Nobody who doesn't support Israel will ever be a viable candidate in either party.
I'd say the main reason Trump doesn't fall under the latter category currently is lack of opportunity. He'd absolutely try to profit - likely personally and from both sides - in the Israel/Palestine conflict.
Yeah you could also add genocide profiteering to the cult dictator rapist also.
This is how democracy works in any Capitalist system where the bourgeoisie have an outsized influence on the state and the proletariat have an undersized influence.
I want politics to be something you look at with a sense of boredom vs a sense of dread again. Biden has been great for making politics 'boring' again, on top of being a very competent leader.
Sure, there's things he has done that I'm not a fan of, but that's every leader.
I like Biden too. He could bring peace to the middle east and defeat Putin, but still his best attribute is that he is not Donald Trump.
“It comes from a very ancient democracy, you see..."
"You mean, it comes from a world of lizards?"
"No," said Ford, who by this time was a little more rational and coherent than he had been, having finally had the coffee forced down him, "nothing so simple. Nothing anything like so straightforward. On its world, the people are people. The leaders are lizards. The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people."
"Odd," said Arthur, "I thought you said it was a democracy."
"I did," said Ford. "It is."
"So," said Arthur, hoping he wasn't sounding ridiculously obtuse, "why don't people get rid of the lizards?"
"It honestly doesn't occur to them," said Ford. "They've all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they've voted in more or less approximates to the government they want."
"You mean they actually vote for the lizards?"
"Oh yes," said Ford with a shrug, "of course."
"But," said Arthur, going for the big one again, "why?"
"Because if they didn't vote for a lizard," said Ford, "the wrong lizard might get in."
Biden has not been as bad as I expected him to be, but he is out of touch with the average American. Politicians need mandatory retirements. We need someone under the age of 65. But I'll take him over the convicted felon.
I'll take him over any republican. He's been fine, but we could do better. We could also do much worse.
I'd take a leftist of any age over a 35 year old centrist.
Mood.
Politicians need mandatory retirements. We need someone under the age of 65.
Ah yes, ageism.
There's nobody over 65 who is a good political leader. Nobody under 65 is a bad political leader. Everyone immediately turns into a useless chump on their 65th birthday. They should all be puréed into a drink to sustain the rest of us.
Sounds like someone just turned 65. Into the Soylent tanks you go!
it's not ageism to expect care for the future from people who are going to expect to see it. we've already seen that boomers could care less what happens after they're gone, as long as they absolutely ruin whatever they can in the mean time.
A 34-year-old can't become president, if that is not ageism in the first place, I don't know what is. But fine, if you are lucid and nimble enough to survive and win a presidential campaign, I guess you're good for 4 years of constant stress and travel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_presidents_of_the_United_States_by_age
I don't think it's ageist to believe that someone who represents this country should be able to accurately understand that wants and needs of the average American. At a certain point someone becomes too old to understand the average American, they rely on their own personal experiences which may be out of date.
That seems a bit excessive.
They should all be puréed into a drink to sustain the rest of us.
That's just wasteful, you need to scrap them first so you can extract the valuable metals from their medical implants. Then you butcher them for any good meat. Then you puree the rest (apart from the brain due to prions) to feed to children.
You can’t be a good president if you’re over 65.
You can’t be a good president if you’re under 65.
You can’t be a good president.
I mean no shit.
Not-trump party go brrr.
In other news, water is wet.
No shit
No shit. That’s been his whole platform from the beginning.
Anyone who who is capable of getting themselves made president should on no account be allowed to do the job.
ETA: Anyone downvoting this is not a hoopy frood
Any man who can hitch the length and breadth of the Galaxy, rough it, slum it, struggle against terrible odds, win through and still know where his towel is, is clearly a man to be reckoned with.
This is needlessly nihilistic, man.
There are tons of politicians who are doing the job for the right reasons. Sure, there's assholes, but there are assholes in every single profession on the planet.
I thought the fediverse would have read the classics and know the references but I guess if it's not Trek or Star Wars nobody gets it.
Issue is its skewed for politicians since its a game of power and ethics are drastically more inefficient then corruption. People that will go under the table and do sketchy stuff lie and stuff like that have an advantage over people that refuse to do that even when it’s beneficial to themselves.
The only reason I'm voting for him is that he's not trump.
I'm not voting for Biden, I'm voting against trump
Just like I didn't vote Biden in 2020, I voted bye Don.
Vote Democrat because they don't have a plan to spend the entire system and fuck everything up much more than it already is. It's not just trump that is an insane asshole on that side.
That's what democracy is like pretty much everywhere.
Good thing they conducted a poll to figure this out
Yeah, instead of using polls to verify things, we should just go on our hunches for everything. Measuring things? Science? Pshaw I say, pshaw!
That is some ass-logic right there. 1st time I got to use my new phrase. Thanks bud.
I thought this was an Onion article at first. Of course most people voting Biden are only doing so because the only other option is convicted felon Donald Trump.
Biden is a loser president in a loser system. But if the option is him or Insurrectionist/Felon/Rapist Donald Trump, it is the option people will vote for.
This must be some in-depth research to arrive at this conclusion
There's never been more evidence that we need to change voting systems in the US. We'll continue to pick the lesser of two evils until that happens.
And it won't, because both parties collectively have a stranglehold on the realisticness of such a change.
Sometimes I wish my competitors were as stupid and unsympathetic as Trump.
It's the exact same sentiment as the 2020 election.
And the 2016 election (for many of us)
...i've always advocated against voting as it only serves to legitimise the electoral outcome, but the republican party finally forced my hand to vote in 2020, for which i'll never forgive them...
Man who closed the deal with 43k votes out of 5.7M across three pivotal states happy to report he has well over 80% of his original voter base behind him.
Same guy that won with over 7,000,000 more votes. Yup, that guy. PRESIDENT Biden.
If an extra million people vote for you in California, the electoral college won't care.
Support? Or begrudgingly vote for him?
No shit! That's our fucking election system. After the primaries, we wind up withtwo candidates that most people don't like, and we vote against the one we think is worse. It's been this way for a very long time. Case in point:
https://youtu.be/riDypP1KfOU?si=xwlInd1CS9p7rYcT
Acting like this is shocking news is disingenuous bullshit.
Yeah it sucks I have to vote for Biden because that conservative doctrine sounds scary as all hell, and Trump is a felon. I'm looking for a president that at the very least pretends to care about the environment, and that is not Trump who is an oil company stooge.
I'm not American but the list of things I would support over Trump is not small.
I get the feeling Trumpers would have trouble comprehending this. Trumpers are in a straight up cult and I'm guessing it kindof doesn't compute that the majority of Biden voters kinda hate him and vote for Biden in spite of that.
One of the most common refrain from Trump supporters as to why it was impossible that he lost in 2024 was effectively "we treat Trump like our cult leader and follow him everywhere. . . but democrats don't do this with Biden! No way he could beat Trump."
In other news, water is wet.
surprising nobody
While reading this headline I began thinking to myself "Duh, of course they did. -Why even bother publishing a story like this. It doesn't even serve any valuab... ohhhh, right."
Shits mostly are none, Sherlock finds.
"Popular men, tey must create strange monsters, and then quell 'hem ; to make their artes seeme something. "
I would have thought Biden supporters would support Biden. This is hardly a revelation.
To the surprise of…?
Yes
American democracy is cooked lmao
If Biden loses, which i think he will, i hope the Dems take it as a reflection opportunity and actually field someone who people like in 2028.
if there is an election in 2028
Edit: if you're going to downvote, at least reply explaining why
Spoiler - they won't.
Anyone they field will support Israel, so if that's the sticking point, no help there.
Albert Einstein often gets misquoted as saying "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result."
What he actually said was "the definition of insanity is whatever the hell the DNC "leadership" is doing."
There won't be. Trump leaving office was already highly detrimental for all his bullshit claims his cultists accept. If he gets in again, he won't leave.
If Biden wins why would they change a working strategy in 2028? They can do it again! Or maybe they can field Hillary Clinton again. We all loved Hillary.
Yes, vote for your preferred candidate.
That is voting.
Stunning article.
Oh look, the troll is back. It was so peaceful for awhile....
I think they's probably sincere. They talks with enough nuance that they's clearly putting in effort, and I don't think they're a tankie either though I could be wrong on that point. They do have a bad position on this one issue, though, so I understand the animosity.
I'm voting Biden because Putin said he preferred Biden as he is more predictable.
People say lots of things for a lot of different reasons, it's good to examine their motivation and question them.
Lying liar lies
Biden won 2020 in spite of being Joe Biden, it's why it took almost 40 years for him to win his first presidential primary, people just don't ot want him as president.
Now that we've had him for four years, and he was worse than we expected...
I really don't think he can pull out another razor thin win like in 2020.
We're risking trump so we can have a Dem president that's more conservative than Dem voters want.
There's no logic behind it, except the donor class would rather have trump than a progressive. And just like AIPAC, they decided it's easiest to just buy both parties in the primary.
This is the third election and a row, it's not going to be different in 2028. If voters only requirement is "blue" then nothing is stopping either party from getting more and more conservative every election
How was Biden worse than expected?
Doesn't matter, all parent commenter needs to do is say it, and it's true!
I think he'd be worse if you expected him to not support Israel do a genocide, but if you expected that you should have read up on his positions and, frankly, the last 70 years of United States foreign policy.
-Union strike busting
-Climate acceleration, more highways, more trucks and SUV's, banning affordable EVs
-Increased defense spending
-Higher deportations and now executive order asylum closing
-Renewed oil and gas leasing on federal lands, and weird restriction on leasing federal lands for renewable energy that more oil and gas leasing has to happen first
-The longest stretch of no minimum wage increase ever.
-rampant inflation
-lack of prosecution for a ton of crimes from Trump and other republicans
-no effort against Americas problem of gun violence
-campaigned on fixing a gap in subsidy coverage for health insurance for the lowest earning Americans, with no mention since
Not even mentioning the biggest problem people have with them, plenty of people have told you already.
"Worse than expected," depends largely on the individual and what they were expecting. It comes down to expecting one thing and being disappointed in the outcome.
People who expected him to be an ally of immigrants are disappointed in his border policies.
People who expected him to fix Trumps "easy" trade wars are disappointed in his trade policies.
People who expected him to support labor are disappointed in his ban of the railroad workers strike.
People who expected him to champion human rights are disappointed in his support of the IDF.
He may have met your expectations and the expectations of the majority of Democrats. Biden's 2020 victory depended on several groups who only showed up because they hoped that he would address their specific concerns.
People got confused when he ran on a platform that was "nothing will fundamentally change" and thought that meant he would push all the progressive ideas they wanted /s
Because he's further right than Reagan and Bush Jr.
Some people think the entire world and everything in it can be changed on a dime. I have to constantly tell people things take time.
But like, please don't do that thing where because I didn't list every little thing, that I'm saying the only issues with Biden are the ones I listed.
Now that we’ve had him for four years, and he was worse than we expected
Biden's much better than I expected, after being disappointed in Obama and his poor negotiating skills.
same reason people blindly follow Trump
four years we still have low wages and higher costs, women lost rights held for over half a century, police are still running amuck, environmental concerns abound, genocide, antiimmigration policies
and Trump's resume does not look any better
and the same people will scream and pitch a fit if anyone suggest a third party because it means a vote for that other guy
football politics
If you think these two candidates are the same, you haven't put literally any effort into paying attention at all, get out of here with your enlightened centrist bullshit.
Yeah, Biden is mediocre at best, and you're usually right about the Dem vs GOP race... but this isn't that, anymore. MAGA is a different beast.
Blue MAGA at its finest.
"Ya, Biden got us into a genocide, BuT tRuMp WoUlD bE sO mUcH wOrSe!!@@!@"
"Ya, Biden was the one who dropped 35 billion dollars for the militarization of police, BuT tRuMp WoUlD bE sO mUcH wOrSe!!@@!@"
"Ya, Biden was the one who silenced and admonished peaceful protesters while commanding order, BuT tRuMp WoUlD bE sO mUcH wOrSe!!@@!@"
The current conversation is "Trump would be so much worse", but its like all of you forgot that he is going for a second term, and in his first term, while he was bad, he was not as bad as Biden. And you have no idea how much it fucking destroys me to say that about the leader of the party I used to so vehemently supported. But its just the case. All the bad things Trump did, Biden has continued, and Biden has come out with a host of things that are MUCH worse than anything that Trump ever did.
We must reject the 2 party system.
If you're not voting for one of the big two in most cases you might as well save yourself the bother and stay home. Not saying it's right, it shouldn't be that way but the US voting system is extremely flawed so you need to make a frustrating decision. That's just the shitty reality of it from what I can tell from the outside at least.
Nah. Trump is dangerous. You skip this vote, you might never vote again
Right the issue isn't voting for another person, the issue is that in first past the post voting, voting for a third party is essentially not voting. So you can protest vote because you dislike the main person your party puts forward, but if you think the other parties candidate is worse you are doing yourself a disservice voting third party. It's not the people it is the system.
It makes perfect sense why we only have two parties while many countries in Europe have lots of parties. It’s not magic and it’s not because our parties are just so good at stopping third parties.
The reason we are like this is because our voting system punishes similar candidates who run against each other. This results in parties that are more like coalitions, each made up of various factions that would be separate parties in a better system, who run a primary to pick one candidate to send forth, so that they don’t cannibalize each other in the general election.
The bad part is that even the primaries generally have the same flawed first-past-the-post voting scheme, so similar candidates often have to strategically drop out or not run at all.
This voting system desperately needs to be fixed. But you can’t fix it by simply acting like we just have to decide to have more parties, nor can you fix it by voting third party and screwing over one of the parties. I think this idea of voting third party in this election is appealing to some because it makes you feel like you’re doing something to fix it. You’re not.
In my view the best hope of fixing this is pushing for election reform locally and winning over communities to the idea. There are some parts of the country with better voting systems in place. We should build on that.
"The other guy is worse than me" is not such a winning strategy, but I guess it works for the #VoteBlueNoMatterGenocide crowd.
We have to support the genocide OVER THERE so we don't have genocide OVER HERE!
That argument only works if the republicans aren't also pro-genocide.
Would a republican win be any better for the people of Palestine than a democrat? If so, how?
Or you can vote R and get 2 genocides for the price of 1.
Gonna be a lot more than two...
Or you can vote R
I live in a red state, and it ain't going blue for Biden. This is 'democracy'.
When voting red will turn Ukraine into Palestine and make the situation in Palestine twice as bad, yes, it does work.
Well, that's the dilemma of a 2-party voting system.
If it makes you happy, look at Europe and their election yesterday. So many parties to choose from, a handful of them not bad, a lot of them passable, but the idiots voted for the bottom of the barrel (at least in Germany). So, idk if that is better.
I've been trying to make that point that the two party system isn't entirely to blame. It's the appeal of fascists to a generation that feels far removed from the fascists' historical peak.
Adopting rightwing policies ‘does not help centre-left win votes’
Study of European electoral data suggests social democratic parties alienate supporters by moving towards the political centre
Ranked Choice Voting! Find your local RCV group and find ways to help get RCV implemented in your city! It’s something that sees opposition from republicans and democrats so you know it’s good.
I'm a fan of STAR voting myself, but anything is better than the first past the post system we have now.
If Star has traction in your city I say go for it! RCV just seems to have the most momentum.
Could you give a quick primer on what STAR voting is? I got a star from my teacher some 30 years ago, but somehow I doubt the system is based on those..
It would be nice if they did that for the Democratic primaries.
It’d also be nice if they couldn’t just override the primary election results because it’s not a “real election”
Yes, I’m still a bit bitter about how the DNC treated Bernie in the 2016 election
I was curious about this. Since political parties run their own primaries, then they can decide to use whatever voting system they want. I suspect that RCV primaries would produce a candidate that is more competitive in the general election (though I don't know enough about electoral math or demographics to be sure). I'm certain that RCV has a tendency to discourage scorched earth campaign tactics, so party candidates would be less prone to trying to destroy one another.
My city does ranked choice voting, and it's great! I would love to see it at the state level.
That’s awesome! What city? What was the process for getting it on the ballot and what helped getting it passed?
Ranked choice doesn't really help here. Generally right-wing/conservative/wannabe-gilead voters aggregate around the republican candidate. Libertarians get stupid but there are very few of them and they start off stupid.
On the left? We have a LOT more infighting but the only viable candidates at the Presidential level (and most, but not all, states) are the Democrat.
So what does ranked choice get us? Okay, everyone picks their favorite third party first. They all get eliminated. So who voted for the Democrat and who voted for the republican?
It also becomes a question of what variation of ranked choice voting is used. Because, depending on the elimination model, you are just normalizing spoiler candidates.
And... there is the very good argument that we already have ranked choice voting in a sense. Primaries. it happens less when there is an incumbent but everyone picks their absolute favorite candidate who most closely represents them. The majority of that then becomes the candidate we vote for come November.
Nah, I think the real answer is to just get rid of the electorcal college at the presidential level and just do popular votes. We have the technology.
I'll also add on that there is a lot of theory (and even demonstrable-ish evidence) that you tend to consolidate around two-ish candidates even in the models that are fairly amenable to third parties. There are a LOT of question marks because this isn't the kind of study you can really isolate, but even the third party heavy models (most parliamentary governments, for example) tend to have two dominating parties with a third or fourth that are "just strong enough to get concessions".
Of course it helps. Sure, the first election wouldn’t see much change, but RCV emboldens third parties to exist and would give them a viable path towards displacing the establishment. Right now there is NO path.
Reforming the electoral college is definitely needed as well, but a much longer runway since it likely requires a constitutional amendment. You can implement RCV without forgoing electoral college reform or abolition. No single change will fix it all, but RCV is beneficial in moving towards democracy and has a lot of momentum already.
I think after people learn and get used to RCV (and when older generations die), their voting styles will change. No more voting solely out of fear. It also requires the major (wealthy) candidates to align more to the smaller (less wealthy) candidates. There's really no reason to be against it. In some states they offer both styles of ballots so you can just vote for one person if you'd like. The only downside is that it can be confusing to new people.
We all know you only want far right neolibs to be president, you don't have to try to be sly about your conservatism :3
I think ranked choice voting would give us RFK as president
Edit: that was assuming we had these same candidates only as ranked choice obviously we would have more candidates
Brain Worm '24
Honestly my knowledge of ranked choice voting is that it works better for reps other than the president, and that our basically one guy wins it all form for presidential elections feels like ranked choice would work less. I'm willing to be wrong. I'm not sure if I actually like systems where the majority party picks the head of state, but it does feel like ra ked choice voting makes it matter more there.
You gotta consider how many viable candidates aren't throwing the hat in the ring because there is no chance for them to get even close thanks to the current system, plus they'd be labeled as spoilers.