1y ago

‘No way out without bloodshed’: the right believe the US is under threat and are mobilizing

www.theguardian.com

cross-posted from: https://lemmy.sdf.org/post/17713638

““If we jail Trump, get rid of Maga, end the electoral college, ban voter ID, censor free speech, we’ll save democracy,” says one meme in a QAnon channel on Telegram that depicts Biden in a Nazi uniform with a Hitler mustache”
Apparently they at least understand their opponent’s view .

News @lemmy.world

girlfreddy @lemmy.ca

1y ago

‘No way out without bloodshed’: the right believe the US is under threat and are mobilizing

www.theguardian.com /us-news/article/2024/jun/02/far-right-mobilizing-biden-presidency

93 comments

Your daily reminder accelerationism posts are likely 70% Russian propiganda
- Hey give some credit to America’s other enemies: China, North Korea, and Iran
- The other 30% are criminally stupid Americans who either want fascism or are too dumb to see how their actions promote the end goals that they pretend to fight against.
  I've seen more than a few with post histories that legitimately make them look like they oppose fascism, but GeNoCiDe JoE makes them help the other team light a fire in the engine of the fascism train.
  
  too dumb to see how their actions promote the end goals that they pretend to fight against.
  GeNoCiDe JoE
  The irony here is palpable.
- Salem Media Group and InfoWars are not Russian.
  
  Radio host and prominent Donald Trump ally Alex Jones was told by an RT host that Russian President Vladimir Putin asked him to “say hi to Alex.” Jones has claimed that he was told years ago that ”Putin’s a big listener" and was previously informed that the “Russian government listens to" his show and the Kremlin partially “modeled” RT off of his Infowars network.
  Fucking close enough for me.
  
  Wait info wars is not Russian? I'm dubious
I put this on another post from another account, but I found it, and I’m going to paste it here:
Do it! DO IT!! Shut up talking about it, and let’s get the civil war started!! Because I suspect it will be over before supper time.
In reality all they’re going to do is talk about it, because they’re small weak little people. Look at the big bad Proud Boys. When faced with the consequences of jail, they cried like little girls and begged the judges to take pity on them. Only one defiantly yelled “TRUMP WON” on his way out is the courtroom, but that was even after he cried and groveled.
- Point the first: no. War is awful no matter how short or long it is, just no.
  Point the second: folks said the first American civil war was going to be short, too.
  In summary, no.
  
  People love looking at the first civil war in conversations like this, but the next civil war is going to be nothing like it. For a likely comparison, you'd have to look at the Spanish Civil War and The Troubles in Ireland.
  Americans have no fucking clue what they're asking for.
  
  I really cannot understand why people keep comparing current events to the American civil war. This will be nothing like that.
  It would look like a hybrid of the Irish troubles and the Rwandan genocide on a massive scale.
  Do you think it's going to be easy to exterminate all the hillbilly terrorist cells that are supported by their local communities and sheriff's departments?
  
  folks said the first American civil war was going to be short, too.
  And we're still going through it! 😭
- No war is a good war.
- Might be a good time to arm up(unless you're mentally ill in a way that will make you hurt yourself or make you hurt others before any actual conflict has begun). Just in case of course.
  Edit/Addendum: If you have kids, please get a gun case and please educate them about proper gun safety and how to properly check if there's any ammunition in chamber, etc. In fact, might as well take a gun safety course yourself.
  
  How will arming up help anything? Honest question.
- They'd shit their rascals the second bullets started flying.
- Yep. Actual coup plotters don’t stand on street corners with signs yelling about it.
They're not wrong that democracy's under threat. But maybe the threat's from the guy who has literally said he's going to murder political opponents - y'know, the guy they support.
Given Trump's failure to maintain power when he had it, I have little faith the gravy seals will rise to an occasion while his opposition is in power.
Not saying it shouldnt be taken seriously... Saying it should be televised 🍿
- Agreed. I don't fear the thicc morons assembling on a large enough scale or being organized enough. These are Walmart shoppers who vacation in Florida every year for the most part, they're not going to be committed, adaptive, intelligent, resilient. They're not loyal enough to any one cause by nature, most are just vocal karen types over a bunch of superficial bs.
  Will/can some of them be a problem? For sure, but... Yeah
  
  I fear that those who favor the rule of law and maintaining peaceful order are even more complacent than the Q-tards. So if they have a sizeable portion of the cops on their side....
  
  The Guardian is a UK source and isn't the best at US news. They don't quite understand US voters, so read the facts but ignore their opinions and analysis.
  UK readers: Trump voters are like your drunk uncle down the pub who's always shouting at footy on the telly. They're going to talk big, but it's doubtful they'll ever actually get off their arse and do anything they claim.
- I will never not chuckle at gravy seals
  
  Meal Team 6
- Meal Team six is reporting for duty. Just after they hit up the all-you-can-eat buffet at the Kountry Kitchen.
The US died under Reagan as anything but a capitalist exploitation farm.
Right-wing peasant ignoramuses are darkly hilariously concerned about preserving the structure of their owner's money printer and their own subsistence.
So when are all you "enlightened centrists" going to finally admit that radicalizing fascist rhetoric is not protected free speech? When are you going to admit that broadcasting blatant lies for political gain is in fact enemy combatant and insurgent behavior and that those rhetoric mills- created by the 1996 Telecommunications Act- must be shut down with extreme prejudice?
- They never will. It was rarely in good faith, and even then it was merely earnest stupidity.
- Probably never. Not because I necessarily disagree with you in spirit. This speech is damaging and without redeeming value. My only problem is that the process of deciding what speech is and isn’t permissible is more dangerous than this speech.
  
  It's not hard to figure out. Are you representing a blatant lie as truth? Are you doing it to destabilize democracy? To the cage you go.
- When are you far left communists gonna admit that we shouldn't be teaching children how to "make prison hooch"?
  When are you extreme anarchists going to fess up that we shouldn't be melting the elderly?
  When are all you far leftists gonna admit to things you already probably agree with?
We are under threat, by the domestic terrorists known more commonly as the Republican party. Maybe they could attack themselves and save America and democracy.
- Immigration? Come on in, we’ll worry about it later!
  So many takes but the legislative branch built together an immigration plan, one that involved quite a lot of money to the border to help enforce it and crack down. Both Dems and GOP worked together on that one. Then Trump said to bail on it, that immigration was a winning ticket for Presidency and congress Republicans sank the bill.
  So.... legit the thing you're bitching about is a political tool by the Republicans.
  
  Removed, complete misinformation. Take your Fox talking points elsewhere.
  
  American values? Can't have that!
  Like the separation of church and state?
  Immigration? Come on in, we'll worry about it later!
  That's how 99% of the country got here. It's what made (and still makes) this country great. Incorporating people from around the world is an American value.
  Trump is running again? Let's do EVERYTHING and ANYTHING to stop him from campaigning!!
  What about the American value of respecting law and order by not supporting a convicted felon for president?
  Crime is getting worse? Let's ease up on punishment! Crime isn't getting worse.
  Crime is actually going down.
  Biological men want to compete with women in sports? Okay!
  Accepting those with different beliefs and respecting the way they choose to live their life is another American value.
  
  Yikes.
  Quite a bit of misinformation there but I'll just have you explain American values for us.
  Does it include paying off a pornstar that you had sex with wile your WIFE was pregnant? How about jewish space lasers? Handies in theater? What are your thoughts on insurrections? Tax breaks for the rich? I could literally go on for days with shit that's gone down since 2016.
  
  Hey. Shut the fuck up, bigot.
  
  Immigrants are the reason dumbfucks like you can stuff your face with chicken nuggies for cheap.
  I can tell the rest of what you've said is dogshit without reading it.
Under threat of what? The wrong people being in charge? The wrong people are ALWAYS in charge. The labels and speeches mean nothing. The fact of the matter is that power seekers end up with power because decent people won't stoop to that. Literally a random number generator would pick better politicians.
- How about the logical extreme of that? Anarchy!
This is 100% overblown. It's also the same article circulating. This type of crap is to sell newspaper subscriptions.
- And fear. They are bullies who want to be feared.
"the call is coming from inside the house"
The tree of liberty, she thirsts. But not for what they think.
this is peak white privilege.
random Muslims were tortured for looking like they might have been in the vicinity of a terrorist, but these guys are represented in the government.
I keep think that Trump's the immediate threat but wait until some coagulated cum trickle like Stephen Miller is the candidate.
- Do you think we can associate that phrase with Google searches for Stephen Miller like they did with Santorum a while ago?
"The right" doesn't believe any such thing. "The right' doesn't exist. MAGA believes it. Probably the GOP believes it. But those two groups don't hold the patent on "conservative thinking".
Never confuse the loudest for the most numerous. They are a minority of fundamentalists who have taken over the microphones of the GOP, but the vast majority of "everyday folk" are just trying to live their lives just like you or I.
The very proof of that is Trump's guilty verdict. Do you think there weren't at least a few "conservatives" on that jury? Of course their were. But a person can be conservative and still do their duty. I'm willing to be a number of service men and women in the military are also conservative, but I have no belief that they'll suddenly "rebel" because at the end of the day, they aren't insane. I'm sure some of the capitol police on J6 lean conservative as well. But guess what, they all just did their job.
Maga is not "conservatives". In fact MAGA is not a political ideology at all; it's a very loud excuse to use hate as a weapon, nothing more. While I may not be "conservative" in any sense of the word, and believe it's a relic of history, it's not MAGA. It's a very real and tangible political thing that sadly never gets debated or talked about anymore because MAGA shouts over top of it.
- I agree with you, but I want to point out that this conflation is a direct result of our election system because it mechanically cannot support more than two parties.
  Any other political interests need to merge together into one big entity that is nearly impossible to disentangle from the rest, so now maga = conservatism and we lose a lot of nuance in or political decision making and ability to be represented.
  I'm pushing for Election Reform this election to move past First Past the Post voting.
- The thing is conservatism IS MAGA. It is the seed that bears horrible fruit.
  Conservatives have never ever been the good guys in the history of the United States.
  Period.
  Imagine pretending the arm isn't attached to the armpit cuz it stinks less...
  
  Hard disagree here.
  I agree with you that Conservatism is an outdated concept that it's done far more harm than good in the world. It's a relic that needs to be relegated to the dust-bin of history, yes.
  But Conservatism is nothing more than a series of economic and political ideals. Nothing more. There are a thousand different reasons for people to identify with one side or the other. Neither Conservatism nor the left equivalent are monolithic static things. They're protean and change depending on the motivations of the people who currently hold their reins in the public sphere.
  Does Conservatism (ie. The Right) generally attract more people with intolerant beliefs and hateful dogmatic behaviours? You'll get no argument from me there. But the number of them that are willing to pick up arms and commit treason because of it. The number of the right that is wiling to use their intolerance as an excuse for violence, is still the minority no matter how many ways you slice it.
  Conservatism might be old and outdated. It might be a haven for the uneducated and the intolerant. But here's the thing...
  It always has been.
  And if it always has been, than why were the 70s, 80s, 90s, 2000s, all violence free? Why was there heated debate between the two sides, but not violence? What's changed now?
  And you know the answer to that.
Maybe you let them go to war. Then at least you can get rid of them for another few hundred years.
They're about to get Molon Labe'd
This is the perfectest demonstration of how Kahneman1 mind, imprint->reaction mind, ideology/prejudice mind, works to displace considered-reasoning Kahneman2 mind.
There's no point in appealing to considered-reason within any ideology, left or right, religious or ideological or political..
The imprint->reaction has already defined everything.
The only antidote to such is to have invested, through the previous decades, heavily in competent unbiased education, to make considered-reason/Kahneman2 mind the automatic default for more of the population.
Too bad it's too late..
"proletariat dictatorship" / "populist dictatorship"
both displace considered-reason.
Yes it's war: it's war against considered-reason because ideology's addiction to its own supremacy is all-consuming.
It's too bad..
Fascism is when voting different
Gotta love Lemmy... my post gets removed because it's "misinformation" and then, I'm called names, harassed and threatened... and the mods just laugh... Reddit 2.0 in full effect, as rumored..
Silly, no one is mobilizing. Another scare tactic to make people vote Democrat.
- "We have no intention of invading Ukraine."
- Heh, no, we vote Democrat because Republicans are indeed crazy, sycophantic, brainwashed people who helped take rights away from 150 million women. Whatever this article says is immaterial.

93 comments