porkins @ porkins @sh.itjust.works

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Joined

2 yr. ago

Sowell is clearly and Uncle Tom/Ruckus by your standards because he refers to black culture as ghetto culture frequently. I was just citing an esteemed black author.

As an aside. Does it trigger you if I appropriate things? I think I have the itis from breakfast. I’m still hung over from taco Tuesday margs. Today is winesday, so will cook Italian with obnoxious pizzeria music.

I didn’t say that I had high confidence in that assessment; just enough to roll with it and possibly get corrected. Also, my dive logs would paint a different picture than cowardice. This is more like I don’t take stupid bets. I can hypothesize though that you are likely not a millennial unless at the tail-end because you immediately went to criticize my choice of language as not being PC and/or being a form of dog whistling. I then swooped in with context. It’s a writing trick to catch the reader’s attention.

Wagers don’t need to include money. I simply wager that you are Gen-Z. I could be wrong, but it is a strong assertion. I figured you would say otherwise if I was wrong. I’m off the the gym, but am happy to continue debating later.

A wager

You strike me as Gen-Z.

Like I said. One of your generation’s main form of cancellation is tuning-out. It’s what your brain does after being fried by an endless stream of bite-sized social media content. You tune in to your echo chambers and listen to more of the same propaganda. You should have gone through all the dystopian novels in school. It would have helped explain what’s happening.

Literally the second sentence. Your generation has this lazy cancellation thing that you do where you tune shit out just because you don’t want to put in the work to understand.

Read the full paragraph at least..

It is logical to conclude that any person would want to give up aspects of their culture that cause themselves harm. You are correct though that I can’t say one way or the other, but if it is the other, then they are the ones to blame for their continued subjugation.

Sowell does indicate that HBCU’s ran better before the liberals let black people actually run them. They originally were run with white northern values and were getting very high marks. When liberals “freed” them from white oversight and told them to reintroduce southern black culture as if it were their original native culture, everything went downhill.

I think most black people want to fix the criminal anti-education elements of their culture that are keeping them all down. In the same vein, I hope for the Hasids to abandon their culture of collective trauma ghettos because they make my culture look really bad. Also, the whole thing in Israel. 😬 I prefer my government without a side of religion.

Have been reading all the classic political literature including Plato’s Republic, Locke’s Treatises, De Tocqueville’s Democracy in America, etc. and they all promote seperation of church and state. They also recognize that colonialism can be damaging. Also, that the way that a society deals with inheritance dictates a lot of things. Lastly that education and a culture of caring about your community and quality work ethic are key.

To summarize, the writings over the past 2k+ years are still easier to read than I could have possibly imagined and the context repeats itself over and over again. It’s pretty crazy. It always says that cultures that value education and work ethic succeed. Sowell mentions that the cultures that act as the middleman between different economies become the most prosperous, but also are the scapegoats when things aren’t looking too good. The blacks that I have hired come from backgrounds that prize education. They are liberal, but follow Sowell’s principles. They have learned the tough engineering skills that I’ve taught them, but have a knack for dealing with our customers with a human touch that I can’t always bring to the table. I’m just saying that more people need to adopt their version of the culture.

Are you even black or just speaking for all of them?

I successfully defended my source and his notions. That’s what I contributed. He’s a champion of the black community. People should listen to him.

The argument that CRT people make is that generational wealth was deprived from black people because tactics were used to keep them out of neighborhoods with nice houses and/or many banks did not want to provide them with mortgages. This is called redlining and it didn’t just happen to black people. Jews and many others had these issues too. While the other ethnic groups on average have grown into middle class society, the crutch of Affirmative Action and endless welfare checks have simply caused the creation of overpopulated drug ghettos.

There is a difference between genetics and eugenics. Eugenics seeks to modify progeny in order to weed out defects and promote certain characteristics. He is not propping up that line-of-thought. He is speaking to the genetic predisposition of ethnic groups. We all belong to different genotypes/phenotypes. I’m ashkenazi. We pretty much run everything and solve big problems. It’s kind of what we do. There was a ton of genetic variation in Africa. I don’t think that Sowell even was attempting to imply less IQ among black people and was showing a similar gradient as compared to other genetic backgrounds. His whole argument is nurture over nature. Systemic racism is just racism. Sure, there was some past redlining, but those issues have been corrected. I had nothing to do with past redlining and my taxes shouldn’t have to make concessions.

I don’t think that he is self-hating. He is a doctorate and senior fellow at Stanford, having taught Econ at my alma mater among many others. I think that he is attempting to address and recommend fixes for the problem. He is not far right and has indicated he is not affiliated with a political party. It’s a short book, I can allude to the evidence, but he does a great job of describing it succinctly.

Sowell’s main thesis in this essay is that what we know today as “black culture” is actually “white redneck culture” or “cracker culture” which “originated not in the South but in those parts of the British Isles from which white Southerners came. That culture long ago died out where it originated in Britain, while surviving in the American South. Then it largely died out among both white and black Southerners, while still surviving today in the poorest and worst of the urban black ghettos.” (p. 1-2)

To build his case, Sowell marshals a number of observations about language, work habits, pride, violence, and economic activity. He argues that these characteristics are common to “black culture” in urban ghettoes, “cracker culture” in the South, and the culture of the “northern borderlands of England” from which “most of the common white people of the South came” (p. 3). Thus, the culture of 21st century ghettos did not originate with Blacks but with 17th-century whites in England.

For example, he cites multiple contemporary sources who noticed Southerners’ lax work ethic,

“‘No southern man,’ South Carolina’s famed Senator John C. Calhoun said, ‘not even the poorest or the lowest, will, under any circumstances… perform menial labor… He has too much pride for that.‘ General Robert E. Lee likewise declared: ‘Our people are opposed to work. Our troops officers community & press. All ridicule & resist it.’ ‘Many whites,’ according to a leading Southern historian, ‘were disposed to leave good enough alone and put off changes till the morrow'” (p. 18).

In terms of education, he notes that: “As late as the census of 1850, more than one-fifth of Southern whites were still illiterate, compared to less than one percent of New Englanders” (p. 22) and “As late as the First World War, white soldiers from Georgia, Arkansas, Kentucky, and Mississippi scored lower on mental tests than black soldiers from Ohio, Illinois, and Pennsylvania” (p. 23).

What’s clever about Sowell’s argument here is that progressives tend to attribute poverty to injustice, minimizing the effects of culture and personal choice. Yet it seems difficult to characterize white antebellum Southerners as “oppressed.” Consequently, progressives have to remain open to the possibility that the disparities noted by Sowell are a product of cultural differences between the North and the South. Once this connection is made between culture and disparities, why rule out such a connection when it comes to modern racial disparities?

This question becomes particularly important when we notice similar disparities within racial groups. For instance, “[t]he 1970 census showed that black West Indian families in the New York metropolitan area had 28 percent higher incomes than the families of American blacks. The incomes of second-generation West Indian families living in the same area exceeded that of black families by 58 percent. Neither race or racism can explain such differences. Nor can slavery, since native-born blacks and West Indian blacks both had a history of slavery. Studies published in 2004 indicated that an absolute majority of the black alumni of Harvard were either West Indian or African immigrants, or the children of these immigrants. Somewhat similar findings have emerged in studies of some other elite colleges. With blacks as with whites, the redneck culture has been a less achieving culture” (p. 32-33).

Did you actually have anything to refute about my direct claims or are you only resorting to ad hominem at this point?

That’s fairly accurate.

Not by genetics, but by liberals attempting to give them back their culture and having them decide that it was the culture of the lazy, uneducated, southern white. That is what Sowell concluded with references from scholarly sources.

Well. You called me liberal except with black people, so I assume you are implying that I am against giving black people special treatment in socialized systems as if they have some form of disability that requires a different approach than normal poor people in order to be provide them “equitable” treatment.

Why should black poor people get more special treatment than poor people of other cultures?