jatone @ jatone @lemmy.dbzer0.com

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9 mo. ago

Its not what about to mention harris' policy position on gaza its extremely relevant to Harris' campaign in particular to the nonsense being spouted here.

Only one person had to shift to be less of a shit human and that was harris and this issue would have disappeared immediately. Learn to properly focus your energy. To help you with this process let me give you a breakdown of choices you as an individual had:

1. Which is easier changing the mind of a politician who has flipped on a number of issues? Or a million individuals in a country of 300?
2. Which argument is easier to make? Support a genocide? Or dont support a genocide?
3. You should vote? Or you should vote for my particular candidate?

Notice how you've decided to pick the harder of literally every single option?

Harris will flip on a dime on gaza if you stop wasting your breath defending her and switch your efforts to criticizing her. No one is asking you to vote for trump. Hell look through my history its always: 'if you're in deep blue voting 3rd party is a okay, if you're purple harris is your best option, but not your only one'

You dont need to be this worked up over harris if she loses to trump its her fault for running a terrible campaign using terrible policy positions. She had an entire year of warning over gaza and she chose to swing right on her policies, alienating a large swath of her base.

Yarp, and still voted for her because harris is that bad and hasnt shifted at on key issues that actually relate to the role of president. Like supporting labor (kahn, no strike busting, etc) and follwing the law with respect to weapon sales/delivery.

Focus your energy on getting harris to move, its a lot easier than getting people like me to move; we actually have moral values, harris doesnt. Though at this point its unlikely there are many hold outs waiting for her. Cast my ballot a week ago. Good luck in your efforts! Im rooting for you 🤷

Sounds like a alabama, Georgia, texas issue. Easily handled by the people in those states. Just like it has been in every other state. Harris isnt even the solution for abortion nationally, she even admitted this; she wouldn't do anything differently than biden. Congressional dems are.

Learn to properly focus your energy.

Lol exactly what you think you'll accomplish this line of reasoning? That you'll convince people harris is the best option for their vote? You wont.

That entire list is better dealt at congressional and local levels of the ballot, and is entirely unrelated to the presidential ticket. Stop wasting your breath on a failed argument. Also are you sure you're responding to the correct person? Im well aware America has/is borderline fascist.

More obv. My post was a warning that a 2nd term would not be good.

You should probably learn how to hedge your bets. What if harris doesn't win? Would it be better or worse if we had more dems in congress for a trump pres?

Isn't it better if people who wouldnt show up for harris still show up to vote dems down ballot? Maybe stop attacking them over Harris and invite them to vote down ballot for dems by supporting their cause. Unless, you know, you're pro genocide then you can fuck right off.

Stop making harris support your identity makes you look like an asshole.

Im comfortable pissing you off. All youve done is demonstrate my point, youll fight harder to support a genocidal candidate than to get her to not commit genocide . translate that anger into action to get harris to swap positions. i didnt make her back genocidal policies. if she loses its her fault. biden was tanked over gaza, union busting and mental health declines. gaza is not news for harris. she knows her position on it is a huge risk, particularly in states she absolutely needs to win.

the only question you need to ask yourself is would you vote for harris if she committed to following the law and enforcing leahy on israel. if rhe answer is yes you should be doing the same thing ive done.

1. lie to pollsters.
2. calls critters let them know your voting 3rd party for thr president as a result.
3. if youre in a deep blue state and comfortable with the risk: follow through on 2.

the harder this win is for harris the better. means less support shell get for her absolutely disgusting treatment of arabs and gaza. itll reduce the fear congress critters have of aipac. etc.

I agree it would be great if your daughter didnt grow up in such a dystopia. So tell me have you been emailing your critters to let them know to reverse course on gaza? Worker rights, (ala khan, health care etc?). Did you vote for harris in the prinary (rhetorical question obv)?

Gaza is such a low bar, 'dont send weapons to a country genociding' we even have laws already on the books for this. Harris wants to claim herself as law and order she can follow the fucking law.

Now as i said i live in 20+ state. My vote is literally wasted on harris. The best outcome we can get w/ harris is an absolute squeeker of a win. If she loses she has no one to blame but herself shes been getting told for months to reverse course on gaza. Biden has been getting told for a year. Their refusal is whats caused this.

Now ask yourself: would you vote for harris if she reversed course in gaza? If the answer is yes, then why havent you joined us in pressuring her? All it takes is a lie to pollsters, calls to your critters, and a willingness to reduce her win ratio in deep blue states. dont worry we're not asking you to vote 3rd party in red/purple states. Vote harris in those places if you can, if you can't no judgement its not your fault harris ran on these policies.

Whats more important is that we get every possible vote out down ballot. harris is secondary concern. What matters more is the house/senate. A harris win is essentially useless if we cant pass legislation. While a harris loss control of those chambers will be incredibly critical.

You want roe v wade codified, focus on local reps and congress critters, ballot measures. You'll have more success.

You're assuming we voted for jill because shes jill. Which is not the case for everyone. She got my vote because of Harris' absolutely abysmal treatment of arabs and gaza, her lack of pro labor policies, etc etc etc.

Jill dropping out would just meant the vote went to a different non-trump candidate or left blank.

The only way harris would have gotten my vote was if she modified her position on gaza, or another key issues like ensuring kahn was kept.

She declined to do so, so i declined to vote for her. 🤷 But harris will be fine my state is 20+ dem.

Sigh people who think a piece of paper with ink scribbles will protect them.... 😮‍💨

Presidents issue orders against the law all the time and they're carried out. The damage is done before the issue even hits a court room and then you assume that the judge is willing to risk their life to protect your rights? 😂

Remember folks Hitler failed to burn it down the first time

Cleaned up thanks. :)

Never said they were the same. Trump is an absolute abomination. He would never get my vote. Keep up. Harris also is not getting my vote. Why? Many reasons but principally how she has treated arabs on the gaza issue. Why? Its the easiest to articulate, its morally unambiguous, and she doesnt need it in my state. This is literally the least i can do for my brothers and sisters in the arab community.

If harris loses as a result of my actions thats on her. That means she managed to be such a shit candidate that she would have lost nearly 20ish points to 3rd party candidates in my state before there is even a remote risk of trump winning.

Maybe now you can drop the lesser evil nonsense and figure your shit out and demand better from your politicians.

Smile you never had a dunce professor? Man you're either really low on the scale or really lucky. The real issue is game theory is often misunderstood and applied poorly. The entire pillar of the argument of fptp voting strategy of lesser evils is a demonstration of this. It completely ignores the interplay between being able to vote for different sets of individuals in the different branches of government, voting patterns of each state etc. leading to suboptimal outcomes. The best outcome this election is harris squeeks by with a win and is highly susceptible to influence from the various factions in the dem party as a result, along with a sweep of both houses for dems. This will simultaneously hurt Israel's influence with the rest of congress. Making them more likely to be ignored.

And imagine all you had to do was lie to pollsters, talk to your friends, and maybe fill in an a single different oval come election day depending on the state you're in like i did and down ballot hit up the dems as insurance against trump. But instead you've chosen to support a genocide, and ridicule people for being good people who dont want to vote for a genocide instead of giving them an alternative approach. Thats cool i guess.

Same friend same. Im just increasing the likelihood that policy does change.

Np mate. We're all doing our part hoping for the best outcome we can manage.

Understand how policy works. We dumped biden over gaza, union busting, and literally being on the down slope mentally.

Every bit of support we withhold from harris makes the campaign that much more tenuous increasing the likelihood of either: her switching positions now, or giving our congress critters more leverage over declining her terrible policies later. If she loses as a result of these efforts we made no secret about what she'd need to change. Thats on her.

This is why the 'lesser evil' shit is nonsense. You can absolutely crater her support in safe states and still have her win. We've given the dunces plenty of hints the last few weeks what was up. Almost ever thread im in i mention the alternatives to the lesser evil nonsense.

Next time try to support your arab brothers and sisters instead of shitting on them like harris has done and this would have been less stressful for you. Maybe sit down and think about what you're seeing and instead of trying to demand people vote the same way you are demand your policy pigeon change their policy if you dont find whats being requested objectionable. No one wanted us to leave Israel defenseless we want her to stop shipping weapons until the destruction stops and real peace talks begin. The fact people like yourself fought harder against this than in getting harris to fix her nonsense position says more about all of you than us.

1. He won't in my state. Id literally have to convince 25% of the population to switch not gonna happen
2. If he does thats Harris' problem. People have given her more than enough warning.

Wa wa wa. You wont vote for my candidate! Your x your y. Let me know when you learn how to apply contextual information to a situation. For everyone else: deep blue go 3rd, for red make the call based on your environment. For purple you probably want harris to win. Let your critters know what your doing and why.

Yes thats why i dont care about their lesser evil nonsense.

Wall of text nonsense. If trump wins thats Harris' fault not mine. She's run a shit campaign and alienated the left thinking she can dislodged voters feom trump, thats her decision.

Bibi has no bearing on this. Hes happy as a clam either way.

And gaza is just the issue im using here i have a laundry list of problems with harris. Its the easiest to explain and easiest to build support for.

Finally if you think voting for harris in a 20+ dem state is going to help trump win you're full of shit. The best way we can fuck bibi is by getting harris to about face on israel and the best way to do that is nose dive her support in deep blue states. She'll still win but her credibility with congressional reps wont hold water.

Uh when have i ever put someone down for voting for harris? Ive been putting people down for being ignorant twats for being holier than thou about voting for lesser evils as if its the only option in play. Those are two very different things. I think harris is a horrible candidate in general, so did many Americans in 2019 and apparently in 2024. Her platform is horrible; and shes willing to allow a minority group to be murder for votes. But i totally get why people prefer her over trump. Im just not willing to support her in my state. Why? Firstly its unnecessary, secondly it ensures my politicians know voters will leave them.

Finally you're comfortable with commiting genocide i get it. Im not. You do you. Personally i dont think we should be supplying weapons for mass murder of a people and apparently our laws feel the same. So maybe our law and order candidate should get on board the no genocide train.