go_go_gadget @ go_go_gadget @lemmy.world

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2 yr. ago

Shut the fuck up already.

Inflation Reduction Act, that a MINIMUM of $386B in green energy subsidies, tax credits and incentives and directs that money in a way that encourages domestic production.

You mean the BBB stripped of everything progressives and leftists were excited about? It was a win for moderates and liberals. For leftists and progressives it was just another slap in the face.

It seems from your tone that you think progressives can only count something as a win if it hurts or angers the center-left.

So when you said "I’m willing to compromise" what you really meant is you'd like the opportunity to do some more finger wagging. Do you realize how pathetic this behavior is? You are offering nothing but speaking to me as if a stern lecture is going to whip me into shape. Are we on the verge of losing our democracy or not? Wake the fuck up and start offering real compromises to leftists and progressives or lose to MAGA. Make a choice.

I’m willing to compromise.

Name one material compromise Biden has made with progressives and leftists over his term. Name one situation where moderates and liberals wanted one thing, progressives and leftists wanted something else and a material decision was made in favor of leftists and progressives. There is not a single example.

Progressives and leftists are getting nothing out of this relationship.

Here's things Biden could do today:

1. Vow to veto any attempts to block a rail strike in his next term.
2. Call off Yellen and Powells war against American workers and their rising wages.
3. Stop forcing federal workers back to the office.

I used to include "stop sending weapons to Israel" but now he's got Congress doing that. Fucking piece of shit.

And before you say "it's too late the election is here we gotta just gotta focus on that first". Fuck. No. You know why it's too late? Because liberals and moderates fucked around for too long. Biden fucked around for too long. Get it done now or fuck off.

Progressives and leftists cannot be both 100% responsible for Biden's loss while having a near zero, not half, not even half of a half, near zero influence on policy. You don't want to compromise with us? Fine. Elect your procorporate trash candidate on your own.

I'll take my cues from Fredrick Douglas and MLK.

And people aren't voting for Democrats who refuse to address unaffordable housing, healthcare and education head on. Someone who realizes the traditional means aren't options and goes for riskier strategies because they know the population can't abide with loss after loss after loss.

The rail strike was a perfect opportunity for Democrats to show who they're fighting for and that's exactly what they did. Turns out, they're fighting for corporations.

You're the same kind of person who would lecture someone for writing a "dump-Biden" comment on these forums.

I'm done being lectured.

If moderates and liberals won't allow anyone to fight fascism head on then it's not just a possibility it's a guarantee. Fascism runs on misery and this country has plenty of it. Addressing unaffordable housing, healthcare and education would take the fight out of people. When people are busy living and enjoying their lives they don't have the time or energy to worry about what somebody else is doing.

And to establishment Democrats credit, they pay lip service to addressing these things but that's about it. They claim they can't do anything without the presidency, a majority, a super majority, a super majority without any defectors. There's always an excuse on why nothing is getting done. But losing isn't an option. So if the establishment Democrats want us to believe we can't accomplish anything through traditional means for decades then guess what, it's time to try something less traditional.

Enter the rail strike, a real opportunity for Democrats to show who's side they're really on. Here's a clear cut fight between workers and corporations. Time to bring these disagreements to a head and draw a line. What do they do? Under Joe Biden's direction 44 Democrat senators vote with 36 Republican senators to block the rail strike.

Liberals and moderates praise Biden for this. They praise Biden for siding against American workers. We are not on the same side.

If liberals and moderates truly believe Trump and MAGA are a threat, if they truly believe Democracy is worth protecting then it's time to compromise with leftists and progressives. If they won't do it now they never will. Which means the choice isn't between fascism and democracy. It's between fascism now or later.

I choose now. Let's get this over with.

I think so anyway. I haven't checked.

If progressives are smarter and more informed than everyone else, then yes I hold them to a higher standard. I’m one of them, and yes I hold myself to a higher standard than anyone else.

Lol that's even worse! Not only are you holding us to a different standard you're spending your time and energy lecturing people like me instead of doing the very thing you told me to do.

focus on changing the opinions of Jewish Americans

You go do that.

You're trying to hold progressives and leftists to a different standard than everybody else. You're insisting we have to vote for someone acting against our interests while excusing others for signaling they wouldn't vote for Biden if he did.

Fuck. That. Shit.

Your polling calculus only holds up if people like me show up to vote for Biden. So I'll change that calculus: I'm voting 3rd party.

See? Now you can go deal with the people who insist Biden keep sending weapons to Israel. It's not my problem anymore.

Thank you for admitting one doesn’t understand the mathematical end-result of FPTP, or what spoiler vote is.

That applies just as well to people who would refuse to vote for Biden if he cuts off weapon shipments. You're trying to hold progressives and leftists to a different standard.

Lmfao which 3rd party? 3rd party does nothing but give fascists more power.

There's that double standard.

You argued to me to stop finger-wagging at progressives and focus on the problem. All I’m saying is to do the same. Stop finger-wagging at Biden and influence the polls. Influence the Jewish Americans and I promise you the second you shift their stance you’ll see a reflection in the a Biden Administration’s approach.

NO.

I have done enough. I am walking away from a pro-corporate trash candidate, a pro-corporate trash party and all the liberal and moderate voters who are so fucking happy with pro-corporate trash.

If they want my vote then they can do the work for once in their fucking lives. If that's too much to ask of them then their precious "Democracy" must not be that important to them. I'm out. I'm voting 3rd party.

No we can't. Liberal and moderate voters will never allow it. Nor would the establishment Democrats it's benefitted.

Err, Boomers are generally in favor of sending weapons to Israel. You know that right?

I’m pretty sure they are compromising? Are you saying Biden’s position is the same as it was the days after October 7th? Because it’s clearly not.

This is your idea of compromise? Nothing has changed. Weapons are still being shipped.

So give me an argument that reflects polling that doesn’t shoot Democrats in the foot in November.

I can't. If you're right you're right. But I'll be voting 3rd party. I won't be held to a double standard. If the pro-weapon shipments voter aren't morally culpable for refusing to yield their position in order to guarantee Biden wins then I'm not either.

I think it’s more that we have to be a better electorate

Who's "we"? I know exactly which race and generation is to blame for all this pro-corporate trash that keeps making it's way through the Democratic primaries. And even people who say "Well more of you show up to the primaries!" argue that liberal and moderate voters won't vote for progressive or leftist candidates or even a liberal or moderate candidate who dares materially compromise with progressive or leftist policy. So we'll win the primary only to lose the general.

Then we're fucked anyway. Let's get it overwith.

Okay. Then verbalize those disagreements in the context of my arguments so I don't have to repeat myself.

For example

I don’t buy into argument that it’s “fascism now or later,” — for that remains entirely speculative.

How? If they won't compromise with leftists and progressives now they won't compromise when leftists and progressives start dominating primaries. I said this in my original comment.

So here’s a thought: it goes both ways — Why don’t YOU shame them for being shitty people instead of expecting Biden to do anything differently until those people actually SHIFT their positions? I mean isn’t it extremely ironic you say this as you finger-wag at Biden doing Democratic things in a Democracy?

But it doesn't go both ways.

Progressives and leftists are simultaneously "the minority" in every single policy disagreement. There is not a single example of Biden making material compromises with progressives and leftists in his entire term because the threat is always "the polls don't say that's the way to go".

So then after 4 years of being pushed aside Every. Single. Time. if Biden loses who will be blamed? Moderates? Liberals? War mongers? Nope. Those darn progressives and leftists.

Despite having zero material influence on policy we are handed 100% responsibility for every failure. It's fucking bullshit.