gapbetweenus @ gapbetweenus @feddit.de

Posts

2

Comments

664

Joined

2 yr. ago

why would it be wrong to spare the mother’s life?

Why do you ask me? I personally believe that abortion is such unique, intimate and personal decisions that society does not have a right to interfere with and should be decided by the mother with help of medical and psychological professionals (if needed). You are the one who said that killing is always wrong and we don't even need to draw any line when it would be ok.

I think overall we shouldn’t interfere with the process once fertilisation has happened.

You are free to do so if you happen to get pregnant one day.

That does not really change that you, like everyone else draw somewhere a line where it is ok to kill. Also you chose a point from where on you differentiate between just cells and a human being. It just happens that you chose implantation as this threshold, while at the same time you use things like heartbeat, pain and human appearance as your measures. And that does not add up.

So now it's somehow ok and necessary to draw a line. So you draw the line when the life of mother is in danger - so you are just as pro baby murder as everyone else, how the tables have turned.

Because foetuses look like children and can feel pain, have a heartbeat

But that is not your reasoning. Your state that after implantation abortion is murder. A blastocyst does not look like a child, does not feel pain and does not have a heart to begin with. So who are you kidding and why are you not trusting in your own faith?

I never invalidated transgender people’s whole existence.

Sure, I just assumed you follow the most common christian doctrine as defined by the bible and major Christians sects. Feel free to correct me at any time.

I never invalidated transgender people’s whole existence. But if you want me to not be vocal against killing people (as it seems you don’t want me to by my first argument) then fine. I guess my Christian belief of “you shall not kill” is too radical and should be kept to myself.

Christians love being victims. What about the other cheek my friend? Jesus was a cool dude, what the fuck happened to his followers? I personally blame Peter.

Possibly. I personally don't have any problems with personal faith but a general dislike for organized religions. In this instance I replied because I'm discussion abortions with the same person in the same thread.

Not once did I mention Christianity as being my basis for my stance on Abortion.

Sure, you just can't come up with any other reasoning (we have a rather long conversation, so you had plenty of opportunities). But please enlighten me on how your stance on abortion, is not result of you moral views that stem from your believe in Christianity.

So what would make you happy then? If I stopped being Christian? Because it sounds like you want me to choose between being Christian and being pro violence against trans people, even though it’s a bit of a stretch to say that the Bible saying God created people male and female is promoting violence against trans people.

Not needing to have a conversation on abortion and human rights for trans people, would make me happier. But that is besides the point. I just pointed out, that it's somehow bizarre for me, that people who invalidate trans people whole existence are surprised by the violence trans people experience and are not able to see a connection.

I see on here regularly people who believe in the Christian god but are told that them looking at the doctrine of their holy books critically and trying to change the nature of their churches to be better is a useless endeavor and use the opportunity to snipe at people of faith.

Everyone who tries to change the Christian doctrine to be more in tune with the actual spirit and teaching of Jesus, has my respect.

During they holocaust while some Christian organizations were supportive of Nazis others assumed great personal risk and extracted hundreds of thousands of targeted people out of the country ro safety because of their faith. Their contributions were not small or easy and should not be ignored.

And during the inquisition Christians tortured and burned people for basically fun of it. As any dogmatic believe system you can use Christianity to justify what ever you feel like.

So often on here when trans issues come up people choose to use the occasion to put their personal religious trauma or prejudice before the needs of solidarity in the fight. They snipe at other trans allies for being “bad leftists” for believing in god.

Sure, but the dude I'm talking to is a christian fundamentalist who believes that abortion is murder and on trans issues just stated that trans people should indeed not be killed (pretty sure the person does adhere to christian dogma of two genders, even so they dance around an answer), wich I would not classify as ally.

It’s never okay.

Definitely ok when someone is trying to kill you. But the whole point is that the concept of killing does not really applies well to a blastula to beginn with.

Then there are only two possibilities: I spend too much time online, or you spend not enough.

You have troubles reading?

Christian dogma of two genders invalidated the existence of trans folks, which in turn promotes violence against trans people. Since you haven't explicitly stated your own believes but you self identify as christian, it's reasonable to assume that you adhere to basic Christian dogma. This assumption is supported by your stance on abortion, which means you are more of a fundamentalist christian.

Christianity doesn’t have dogma on the trans issue.

The Bible just says that God created people as man and woman.

Dude?

Dawkins would argue that biologival sex is a scientific fact.

So? He rationalizes his transphobia with his poor understanding of human biology, psychology and sociology, which are all not his fields of expertise by the way, and more importantly unrelated to atheism. If he was Karamazov, than maybe you would have a point.

What does me being a Christian have to do with Christian transphobes, and why would you bring up my religion when I literally just expressed disgust at the murder of a transgender person?

At best you participate in a believe system that promotes violence against trans people by invalidating their existence. So your disgust seems rather disingenuous, or you haven't really reflected on this whole topic at all.

Captain obvious was definitely a 2000 meme so strange you never encountered it. Or maybe you are pulling my leg now - what is even real anymore?

Medical progress is sometimes frustrating slow.

So again we arrive at the same question, where and why do you draw the line?

So where is the line, since you were talking about abortion in general.

Are they? Seems like it, but the way they used to expressed they thoughts is rather confusing to me.

But there is no atheists dogma or teaching that can be a base for discrimination of trans people. Obviously individual atheist can be transphobic unrelated to their believe that there is no god. On the other hand christian transphobes will often root their transphophia in their christian believe.

Killing people and saying someone’s belief in their own gender is or isn’t valid are different things, though.

Invalidating trans folks existence is often predecessor of violence against trans people.

So you recognize that humans have a developmental process. You agree that sperm and egg are not a human. So somewhere in between there must be a line or we at least can come up with some criteria to define a line. So why are you against abortions, since you seem to not think that a blastula is indeed the same as a child?

Still never seen an Orthodox or a Catholic person advocate for the killing of trans people though.

They just say you don't exist, which at least does not help.

So is a blastula also a child? You don't see the difference between the ability of a foetus to survive outside it's mother and that of a born child?