Joncash2 @ Joncash2 @lemmy.ml

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And was proven to work by China as that's literally what they did. But I think the fear of looking like they side with China is making them not do it. The taboo of standing with China is that taboo amongst western nations that they would sacrifice their health and wealth to not do it.

This is the problems with western thinking. Everything has to do with the west. Everything China does apparently is because of the west, or in this case USA. This has nothing to do with the west or USA. It also doesn't really have all that much to do with humanity either. As many have noted, China cares about China. Since they care about China, it's in their best interest to fund something like the WHO in order to prevent diseases spreading as that can obviously effect China. Diseases don't care about borders.

It's the same reason China cares about green tech. Sure it helps humanity, but it's mostly to save China for the future Chinese. If the side effect is the world gets cleaner, all the better. Of course the west twists it as China is developing green tech to have a monopoly on green tech. Hey, if you can do better, do it. Otherwise you're literally burning down the world because China does it better.

Thanks, honestly it was kind of nice writing it all out. I guess in some ways I've been bottling my feelings about all of this.

This is very true. I had a cat that recently passed away at 17. While I've had cats my entire life, none had an attachment like this one. It followed commands and would dote around me like a dog. He would even get upset if I gave other cats more attention than him. So naturally we bonded more since it was easier to bond with this cat as he sought attention. So there was a cycle of him paying attention to me so I paid attention to him. Now I want to be clear, my other cats also loved me very much, but this was different.

So when it was his time, it was one of the saddest things I ever experienced. Other cats when they passed away would try to hide, apparently this is a natural instinct to protect their families from disease and predators when they leave a corpse. But not this cat. All he wanted was to be by my side as he was passing away. It was clear he knew and would meow when he couldn't find me, which was largely because he couldn't really move since he was dying. When the vet came to put him down, his last action was to look around the room to make sure the whole family was there, then he rested his head and waited for his end. That was heart breaking. His love for me and our family was so great that he went against his own base instincts, I have never seen that before.

Well, sure. But none of them would be enough pressure to change the US direction. Also, China already basically used all of them.

Rare earth being the most famous one. But much like sanctions on Russia this will always be leaky.

Trade with nations on USA's hit list. Russia being the best example. But China already does trade with them. They'd have to start to break EU and UN sanctions to do more, and while upsetting USA would be nice, they don't want to create a tear with Europe.

Stopping Chinese students from going to the US. This would be a longer play, but forcing a reverse brain drain would benefit China to US detriment. However, Trump is already doing this for free.

Creating actual alliances, if this were to happen it would put USA on the back foot as they'd have many nations they would suddenly have to contend with. However, this goes against China's very ethos. China believes alliances are problematic and creates divisions in the world. This is why China has no allies. And to China's point, look at what Trump just did to his allies.

I could go on. Other options are too weak to make a dent or Trump is already giving it to China for free. It's hard to make an effective move when your opponent is throwing golden opportunities at you. To be honest, China mostly just wants everything to play out and see where the pieces lay.

China absolutely has the power over the US to make the US feel pain. The problem is any use of that power would make China feel just as much pain. It would be self-immolation. The three main things China can do are.

Cut all exports. Ironically, Trump did that to himself so that's why Trump capitulated.

Sell all US assets. Not just bonds. Of course this would absolutely destroy China's economy, so a no go.

Nuclear war. But this is the end of humanity, so also a no go.

So China has the power, but would need to basically be willing to end life as we know it, or do what Trump did to himself. Again, ironically that was the one thing that didn't involve total annihilation and Trump willingly committed seppuku. So weird.

So that's the dumbest thing Trump is doing. Deporting low income workers when he's trying to bring low income work back to America. It's literally the opposite of what you would want to do. Yet here we are. The stupidity I feel is the most stunning thing about all this. I knew Trump was insane, but completely idiotic was not something I thought was part of the deal.

Oh it's totally going to get far fucking worse. I'm just pointing out the problems are already here. Fingers crossed we don't nuke ourselves to cavemen times. Or maybe we'll get to live the fall out games. Better than caveman times so we got that going for us.

China's not negotiating. This is the best result for China. As long as USA is going to continually be belligerent with tariffs to all nations, China actually would not benefit with preferential treatment.

China wants to let the tariffs slowly but persistently eat away at USA's economy. 30% is just about right as Mexico and Canada are at 25%. China doesn't need to be the cheapest, just affordable enough that Americans will still buy. So while trade will decrease it won't stop. This gives China the breathing room they need to build up supply chains everywhere else. All the while Americans will afford less and less as tariffs eat away at their income. This will lead to less business creation activity and destroy manufacturing as the manufacturing inputs being tariffed makes USA products unaffordable.

If this looks like China is capitulating, all the better. Though most people realize it's Trump that blinked. Since their counter actions aren't really tariffs to begin with. China can order their companies who they buy from and more importantly who they don't.

You mean a product that has no shipping costs can be replicated infinitely for free and maintains high paying jobs is worth more than sweat shop factories? Say it ain't so. Obviously we want to give up on YouTube and MS office etc... So we can put tiny screws into iPhones.

Uh, I'm pretty sure we are already seeing water wars. The India Pakistan conflict has a large amount due to India blocking the Indus river. China's south China seas claims is largely over control of bodies of water. The reason Turkey cares so much about Syria is because of the Eufrates basin. Hell, even Trump's wildly insane conflict over Greenland is over the artic water ways. And that's a short list. I'm pretty sure we are screwed...

Why? I can tell you now that the Chinese delegation will essentially say nothing and simply report publically what the US is asking for. Something that other nations haven't done yet to allow USA to save face. This isn't something that China would be willing to do. China has no demands yet, nor any desire to end the trade war. What they do have a desire for is to make everything USA is trying to steal public knowledge.

It's worse than that. Sure China is huge, but the entire world is boycotting US goods. It's far far worse than what your pointing out. But we'll, maybe this is a good thing. Fuck USA.

Trying to force the EU to buy these at gun point. The problem is the EU is calling their bluff.

In a normal situation, no. But thanks to Czar Trump, USA has disassociated itself with its allies who used to help foot the bill with military purchases. This coupled with the idiotic trade war, the US might actually run out of money now. What was inconceivable just a month ago, maybe something we get to celebrate in the near future.

I mean I hate to say this, but the world looks like it might turn in a horrifying way that would make your argument completely null. All Trump has to do is say I got a great deal with China, we're going to let them take Taiwan and sell Russian weapons. They've agreed to buy our bonds with the Russian war payments to fund our economy, best deal ever.

Now suddenly it's completely and utterly hopeless. Just a few months ago I would have assumed this to be impossible. But today...

Oh I know, I'm just pointing out that China has no reason to make the first call, which some how, and this blows my mind, Bessent seems to believe that somehow it's going to be so bad for China that China will call first. Why would the winner call first? What strange world would this happen?

It might not be sustainable for USA, but China is doing just fine. Their stock market is flatlining and they expect growth to drop 2.2% to 3% growth. Not great, but definitely sustainable. That seems to be a big problem for US negotiations.

This is what people are missing. China already built up their logistics in Vietnam and Mexico most famously. This is transhipment. Every since Trump term one, they have been planning this day.

So while your right, in normal conditions it should be impossible. In our reality it's what's already happening. Just wait till we get "Spanish" cars. This was always the plan.