Guydht @ Guydht @lemmy.world

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2 yr. ago

Can nobody here think like a military just for one second and understand that they don't care about spread of information? That information will be leaked after the blackouts are over, nothing can change that. That blackout is purely so that Hamas would lose their communication capabilities. It's a classic proven war tactic and a totally legit one.

Ah yes because murdering millions of your own harmless citizens, who some served in your military is totally the same as fighting against a terror organization who massacred and pillaged your villages and keeps 200+ of your citizens captive.

"stop the bombs"... But only incoming ones, not outgoing ones from Gaza because they're friendly rockets which are a symbol for peace! Look, we're such peaceful people who want peace!

Obviously Israel should just stop its efforts of freeing over 200 kidnapped citizens. Oh they also should pack up their bags, leave their home, kiss Hamas's feet, thank them for massacring civilians and pillageing homes, and let them take the entirety of Israeli land and start a new state called Iran.2.0.

Maybe then jews in Berlin won't have stars of david sprayed on their homes.

You're either super innocent, or super brainwashed if you truly believe that open sea and air spaces for Hamas would mean less violence.

You really think they don't know where Hamas' leaders are? They know, but it's probably impossible to kill them, since they hide under hospitals in underground tunnels, and no type of ammunition can penetrate 30m deep underground without obliterating the building above it. No country in the world has faced these kinds of fighting conditions, and even the U.S had trouble fighting in the middle east because of probably these same reasons.

They're not fighting another army, with a base and well defined targets. They're fighting a terror organization operating from civilian homes.

If that were their goal 2 million would've been obliterated already. Stop assuming they're racist and think what they can do from their perspective. They have over 200 kidnapped, mostly civilians, and they're dealing with a group which proved physically that their only goal is killing civilians for terror.

If Israel were nazis, you wouldn't hear cries of civilians injured, because 2 million would've been wiped out.

No. Israel is really not Nazi Germany, who killed its own citizens out of racism. Israel is fighting aggressive neighbors who will do anything to kill them. Don't confuse the two, it's a dangerous comparison since it's so wrong.

A) is it the responsibility of a foreign neighbor or the running government to handle an emergency situation? By the way, the running government is Hamas.

B) how exactly would Israel give those hospitals fuel? They'll drive down gaza boulevard with a fuel truck and just give it to the hospital? Without kidnapped drivers and stolen fuel by Hamas? Even if they did manage a way for the fuel to reach the hospital - Hamas is governing Gaza, and will steal (at least some) of that fuel to fund their war against Israel. Hence Israel has 0 incentive or responsibility to give fuel when it'll come around to bite them in the ass when it'll be used to power rockets.

*Forgot the fact that Hamas has literal tons of fuel being used for their war crimes (yes shooting rockets against civilian cities without a clear threatening target is a war crime)

Israel bringing in fuel will be used for rockets and war. Why should they. The only reasonable way for fuel to be actually used for hospitals is if the UN or some other natural party escorts that fuel, preventing Hamas terrorists from stealing it.

How did you imagine me in your head when you typed "glad you're losing control"? What does that even mean?

Anyway, blocking someone over so little shows either a) you just can't handle disagreements in life or b) the internet has spoiled you, blocking anyone who disagrees with you being so easy.

In both cases, that's a bad thing. Have fun spreading hate.

And again, that's just nationalism. The jewish people (not religion) believe they need to have a home in Israel, and nowhere in zionism are settlements of west bank/gaza are mentioned. That's religious zionism, which says the complete whole land of Israel should belong to the Jewish people. Zionism is the 48 border, religious zionism is the 67 border.

Oh so if they allow trucks the fighting stop? Oh please. Hamas hasn't stopped launching rockets since day 1. And if you think their preparation ended in a day, you're terribly mistaken. There's no chance for peace in the region now.

The reports indicate the rocket was launched by the Palestinian Islamic Jihad, a more extremist group seperate from Hamas, but who's basically Hamas with much less power and effectiveness (they fail a lot). It's true that Hamas blamed Israel, and that Israel showed satellite images indicating it's a failed rocket from PIJ. Photos also show that it mainly hurt the parking lot (and without a crater, typical of Israeli ammunition) which means for 500 to be dead, there'd need to be a lot of people in that parking lot for some reason.

Basically Hamas lied. But they're a terrorist organization, every chance of shock and terror is a win for them.

*religious zionism

Zionism is literally just nationalism for the jewish people. The fact that it has a religious brother is because the world decided that a race and a religion are linked. Do all jews want to be jews? No. Can they stop? No. Do all Israelis support religious zionism (which means taking land)? No. Even most of them don't. Their government and politics are just so fucked up that we have a result of religious zionists running the state. Let's pray that after this war they'll get their shit together.

How is this a meme?

Terrorising the civilian population makes them no better than Hamas

Do you know what terrorism even means when saying that? Israel isn't trying to incite fear (terror) in Palestinian lives, they do literally everything they can to fight in a region infested with (actual) terrorists (people wanting to incite terror in another group), which is really hard considering they hide among civilians.

Very few brutal oppressors officially target civilians

Well I certainly can't remember examples of such, and I legit don't feel like Israel's statements are racist towards a whole people. I don't know if it's apologistic or whatever, it's just a fact. I don't try to look for signs of stuff that aren't there. There are many arab/jewish settlements, and they live peacefully with one another. The only ones Israel is condemning are people who are after the country's demise. And I don't see that as oppression, it's legit.

you can randomly and indiscriminately attack and then retroactively find some excuse

Is that a fact they did or is it out of a tin foil hat? Palestinians ending up with dead civilians is a sad obvious fact of the nature of the land. Does anybody expect Israel to not respond to rockets launched on their civilian territories? And when Hamas hides their rocket launchers in cemeteries and residential buildings, yes, civilian infrastructure will be destroyed. But that's not on Israel, and asking them to stop their bombings of Hamas infrastructure because it's hidden between civilian one - is delusional, or is a support of Hamas activity.

About the apartheid part, again, I largely agree. West bank treatment is and should be condemned. But again, you have a bit of a different story here, where Israel is facing an aggressive leadership, which is capable and is actively supporting terrorist activity. Yes, it's an unfair treatment and should be condemned and shouldn't be excused. But at the same time Palestinian behavior should be condemned and not excused, as it is blatant terrorism, bombing busses and lynching civilians.

Everyone should stick their noses in when a country keeps electing governments that commit war crimes

How many people protest over Israel's actions vs Hamas's actions? How many people protest over north korea? Over

China? I agree right wing governments should be condemned but what Israel is getting is so much more than that. Heck, even Israel's neighbors are getting less shit for their much more blatant human rights abuses (much more blatant because it's against their own citizens + with no complex background like Israel).

And what I meant about supporting the Palestinian side being easier was about the public conversation and about the media coverage. Of course it's easier to take their side since the media is taking the side of the underdog - pretty much always. And in western civilized states, the media has influence on the people.

In general I don't think Israel is in the clear at all. They funded Hamas's rule, ignoring their extremist nature for years, only acting now when it's too late to do anything peacefully. They're very much a part of why there's no peace, but they're not as much a part of why civilians are killed. Murder comes to Israel, not from Israel. I just blame in part the rest of the "united" arab world, for always condemning Israel's actions yet, a) doing peace treaties with them, allowing them to keep their wrongdoings. And b) not actually doing anything to support their arab brothers in Palestine. Sending empty words of solidarity isn't helping poor civilians. Keeping all the blame on Israel for an unsolvable situation is just wrong and doesn't help anyone.

trying to justify Israels actions

I mean, their current actions are tbh pretty justified. They have 200 innocent kidnapped civilians. And I have yet to see the Israeli government officially target Palestinian people in their attacks, physical or verbal. All of their aggression is focused on Hamas.

And about Israel not narrowly targeting Hamas - idk what to tell you... I legit don't hear of any attacks Israel does without there being a Hamas HQ/Storehouse (and even when they're a legit target, they alert people to evacuate beforehand... What other country in the world does this to their enemies???). Maybe I don't look hard enough, but from what I can see they legit only target places with arsenal value for Hamas.

People are asking for them to not engage in genocide

And again I stress, I don't see them targeting Palestinian civilians. Not in their attacks, not in their language. Plenty of Palestinian civilian die, but Israel is less responsible for them than Hamas is - and I see plenty of accusation towards Israel, not towards Hama - which are the main cause for Gazans' suffering.

stop engaging in Apartheid

Context. I agree about the Apartheid in some some parts (West Bank) but there's so much nuance there that's it's hard to actually define as Apartheid - they're not actual citizens and they have their own government (PA). Their government doesn't do much, and they're under Israeli power - but neither Israelis nor Palestinians consider Palestinians as Israelis - so naming it Apartheid is just not accurate. They're just a different people.

Denying the evidence for what Israel is engaging in

Nobody denies what they're doing - I just give them a break considering they're fighting a war against an organization who benefits from civilian casualties (on both sides...). And no other country in the world is facing that kind of challenge. Maybe consider what they practically could do to keep their security. If they don't strike hard now - their enemies (pretty much all of their neighbors - another issue they alone face) will all take advantage of and kill them.

not helped by apologists for the brutally oppressive Israeli apartheid regime

They're also not helped by "woke" distortion of reality which makes the Israeli people only support their right wing government more against the world who very verbosely stick their nose in a conflict thousands of kms away, taking the easy way out of supporting the underdog, no matter what that underdog is actually like.

The violence of Hamas against both Israel and the Palestinian population is also part of Israels responsibility

I actually agree to that. Israel('s government) was comfortable having a terrorist organization being the face of Gazans making them easily hateable. And that led to the horrible deaths of civilians on both sides. The Israeli government have a part in this - smaller than Hamas - but definitely a part which they should answer for. I just don't see protesting against their response now is helping anything - now they should and they do wipe Hamas out entirely - something they needed to do years ago.

Peace is now impossible between Israel and Gazans directly. Without a third party (heavily) involved, nothing could be done now to correct those relations. Maybe Egypt will step up to it, but they're also have a bias in this conflict, and even an incentive for it to go on. So I doubt anything real will happen.

I agree about Israeli goverment being way too right wing, trying to take more Palestinian land. That just sucks, and it's a worldwide trend of countries becoming less liberal.

And yeah Israel 100% messed up horribly about letting Hamas being so powerful. Bibi has so much to answer to and by his character he won't and blame it on others.

And about the humanitarian crisis - let's be real - nobody expected Gazans to clear the northen part in 24 hours - the IDF itself issued more warnings after that initial 24 hour one because of course they did - it's ridiculous thinking otherwise. It's been almost a week since then and they still haven't invaded - plenty of time for evacuation. And blocking of resources is also over with Rafah crossing (about Israel's support of food/water/electricity - it's understandable why they don't wanna spend their money giving them that right now...)

And about Israel not supporting more moderate Palestinian forces, I don't know about that... The last time Israel supported the PA was the Oslo Accords which is wildly regarded in Israel as a good step for peace, and a very bad move for Israeli security - the second intifada has definitely been more deadly because of it.

But even after all of that - that's just the current government - and unlike Hamas, they don't control the whole state. There's an opposition, there's a separate military, a separate court... The extremists don't have all the power. And hopefully after those events Israelis will realize they're a danger not only to Palestinians, but for Israelis.

That's news from 10 days ago, just search "rafah crossing" and see that aid is being pushed through right now. Because of course it is.

And yeah, the Israeli right wing government is stupid in fostering Hamas, since it suited his needs of having no peace talks with Palestinians. Bibi is corrupt to the bone, and maybe the only good thing from this situation is his demise from power. Maybe that'll allow actual good policies to pass through.

Well, looks like neither are the world leaders, since they go towards my way of looking at things (allowing Israel to defend itself, while not being simultaneously humane and giving food/water/electricity to their enemies).