Guydht @ Guydht @lemmy.world

Posts

0

Comments

206

Joined

2 yr. ago

100% agree. And with how right wing the Israel government is right now, there's no way they'll address reparations for Palestinians anytime soon (the country already was going right, now after the Hamas attack you can bet more right wing aprties will take more power in Israel).

Israel needs to get themselves together and work towards peace, with the rest of the world's back as insurance of Palestinians not doing dumb stuff (which meanwhile is the only thing Palestinian leaders did).

I agree the past 2 weeks are inhumane against Palestinians, but blaming it entirely on Israel is dishonest given they still have civilians kidnapped and probably tortured (not based on a tin foil hat, based on the bodies of dead Israelis).

I do believe they'll let help come from Egypt before it gets catastrophic, because they also don't want a humanitarian disaster to happen. That'll only move more people towards Hamas, which is of course against their interests.

And about the language - not once have I heard an Israeli official calling the Palestinian people animals - only their leadership (which let's face it - they are animals). And because Israel is a free state, and part of the free world, they'll get backlash for saying anything of that nature. I just don't think we'll even come to that - since Israel just doesn't wanna involve itself with Gaza at all besides destroying Hamas.

I see that genocide is not just murdering innocent, but still there's a lost nuance in this article that Israel is only addressing the Palestinian leaders (Hamas), not the Palestinian population as a whole.

That's a very huge distinction, since jews in the Holocaust were just regular citizens in a country, without a murderous leadership. Palestinians are different in that regard - they have a terrorist organization running their territory, and no one but Israel can/will do anything about that. No one is considering how good Gazans could've lived if their leaders weren't terrorists.

And nobody can fight a terrorist organization without civilian casualties. That's war. Calling it a genocide is in my eyes dishonest to actual genocides where innocent people are being called animals and pillaged and slaughtered. Palestinians are poor people, but there's definitely not only one aggressor against them.

Nah, I'm just some dude with an opinion on the internet. I think that every country should have a right for proper defense, and proper safety for its citizens. And that includes Palestinians. But to think that the source for that defense should be Israel who are suffering their own casualties is not fair by the world. And Israel tbh is doing the bare minimum in Gaza (up until 2 weeks ago) which is definitely not good, but not as awful as a genocide.

After the events of Saturday tho, I can't blame them for stopping that bare minimum of protection. They're at war and can't enjoy that luxury.

increased in the ghettos

Source? That sounds like an interesting read

Either way tho, that wasn't my main point. My main point is that Israel is fighting a war against Palestinian leaders, not killing civilians needlessly. And that's a nuance that's not addressed in this article, or in most pro-palestinian text I read.

No man, no one owes me anything, I just asked if you had anything better to say than just calling names which is just destructive. So yeah, I agree about the blocking part of me not wanting anything to do with someone who can't even hear opinions who are contrary to his own, and just name calling them.

Could you enlighten me on what I said that wasn't correct? Instead of throwing titles how about actually explaining your case?

Gazan population doubles in 2 decades: help! There's a genocide!

What the jews got was the purposeful death of innocent civilians. Just watch jewish numbers in the world before and after WW2. What gazans get is a war. Yes, civilians die in wars, and that's an awful thing. Israel should've done everything to prevent this war, but didn't. Bibi has a lot to answer.

But comparing the Holocaust to gaza is just absurd. You can take a side in a conflict without baseless accusations, Israel has already a lot to answer to. But purposefully killing civilians? We've yet to see that from Israel, only from Hamas...

First, how is that a strawman? You said Israel should open up Palestine, I wrote why Israel shouldn't. Either you're speaking unknown terms I don't understand or you don't know what strawman argument means.

Secondly, I again advice you to look at more views of this conflict. "The ask project" is a good one asking Israelies and Palestinians questions about hotly debated topics. There you'll find your answer as to what'll happen when Israel opens Palestine. Palestinians don't want to be part of Israel, they want Israel destroyed. You listening to left media is good and keeps you updated under one side of the conflict, but doesn't reflect the will of the people living there and what happens practically.

The inequality and segregation by Israel is supposing Palestinians want to be integrated into Israel and don't be allowed to. But the truth is that amongst peaceful Palestinians there are plenty of Iran and ISIS backed people who want to destroy the western world - and Israel to them seems like the frontline. So no, Israel should not stop their segregation, because that's the only thing keeping them alive to this day.

heart of the Muslim civilization

Dude what? Did they move Mecca to Jerusalem while I wasn't looking?

And if we're talking pre 48 era, we're gonna be here all day, since in that era neither Israel nor Palestinians had any proper leadership and most of the actions were performed by nationals on both sides. Yeah Zionism played a heavy part in creating that conflict, but it also did basically nothing wrong on its own. All zionism is is jewish migration towards Israel (holiest land for jews). And they didn't plan on fighting for it, they bought lands legally, started their own communities and lived peacefully up until the ottommens and then later the british stopped them from migrating out of fear of arab muslim resistance to jews coming (again, not kicking anyone out). Only facing resistance did jews start to fight, and they fought hard. Just proves how holy and important that land was for jews. So don't start displaying the natives of that time as completely innocent. Imaging today France started blocking immigration because the migrating population isn't french enough for them.

Oh and what do you think would happen the second they open up Palestine? Would they get hugs and kisses or knives and mass raping? Let's look at 7/10 as an example of what happens when Israelis don't supervise entry to their country by Palestinians.

And as much as I hate it, Israel is a jewish state. Meaning it'll never take in so many muslims endangering that jewish majority status - which is horrible. But on the other hand, neither would Palestinians agree to be part of Israel. Do you really think they'll agree to just enter the state and live alongside existing Israelies? If so, then you live reaaaaaaly far away from that region to know anything about it. A nice resource is "the ask project" on youtube, just watch a couple of videos and see who Israel is facing against. They want nothing to do with Israel. They want their annihilation or exile.

Start looking at other media sites besides al jazira and see what's really the problem there. Don't believe neither side wants this war to happen, because noone does. It's just that both sides are too stubborn (arguably Palestinians more) to do things for their own good.

Firstly, where did I mention jews? Israel have non-jews in it. But it's a valid point, Israel is a jewish point - a home for the jews after the Holocaust - which 100% needed to happen since they're persecuted all over the world. Even if you have no problem with jews, muslim states and nazis do.

Secondly, you shift all the blame of the situation on Israel, while they do have lots to blame for, so does the Palestinian leadership. They're the ones teaching hate speech in schools, promoting violence against civilians, and not looking for a peaceful resolution benefitting their people.

Thirdly, yes Israel likes being jewish and is working hard to keep being jewish, but that's their whole shtick. Does anybody blame Jordan or Egypt for being muslim by law? I certainly don't hear them as much as Israeli protestors. Which again further solidifies the need for a jewish state - there isn't a safe place for jews in this world but that state. Wanting to take that away is just wrong.

Also, I'd like you to keep in mind a simple point. How would arabs live under Israeli law (you can see examples in Israel right now - they have human rights) vs. how would jews live under Palestinian law (hint: they won't). Yes, it's wrong keeping gaza and the west bank under military power, but tbh what else can Israel do when suicide bombers arrive every day (and get praised heavily for it). The only solution is 2 states. Now after what Hamas did, I super doubt it is an option, and probably a total occupation of the land is eminent. Extremism brings extremism, and what Hamas did will make everything worse. That attack worsened the status quo, in the worst possible direction.

And again One quick google search brings you to satellite pictures of the damage published by Israel (and also by other non biased news sources) Just search for it, please. I understand you have your agenda but come on don't let it hide truths and evidence.

no moral ground for Israel

The UN vote of 1948 would like to have a word with you, random internet person who clearly knows better than them.

And again, it's one thing being mad and starting a war about it. It's another thing not starting a country of your own because of it and staying refugees 70 years later, promising to only better your own life ones your enemy is dead. The palestinian mentality is just plain stupid.

*The distant past. A.k.a, the 48 past. So much has changed since then, including the people themselves. People should act based on how to improve their present and future, not how to improve (avenge) their past.

Israel is with the power to change the situation? Oh really? What could Israel could possibly do do have peace in the region? Besides going "okay we're leaving bye have tel aviv and jerusalem" nothing could be done to stop the palestinian aggression. Nothing, and they proved that time and time again. Israel has nothing to do in the situation except prevent more attacks on it.

Bro 1 quick google search and you have a satellite image of the hospital. Ya'll just don't wanna believe anything Israel says at this point.

I don't understand. Ya'll think Israel is gonna burn an intelligence asset they have by making it public just so people who are already convinced by one narrative (because underdogs are always easier to support) have proof of one attack not being their own? They have better use for that intelligence. Like fighting a war.

Don't recognize it? There are 9 million people living in it, and worldwide recognition. Also the 48 decision was UN backed, meaning the nations of the world think otherwise. Jeez, you can not like someone while still admitting their existence.

Right now? Yeah, definitely they're violating human rights. But what are they supposed to do given their history? Every Palestinian leadership ever called out for civilians to be "jihad"s (terrorists) and kill as many as possible. I was simplistic because everyone here on lemmy also talks simplisticly. Talk of no nuance and no faults on both sides, mainly say "israel bad", "israel apartheid", "israel should stop existing" - all while forgetting this conflict has two sides. Yes, one side is poorer, but that doesn't make them more just. Both are wrong, but arguably palestinian leadership are the worst here. Being at a huge disadvantage and still choosing to fight a war they'll lose, while in the process keeping their citizens poor. At least Israel evacuated the cities near Gaza, while Hamas blocked people evacuating outside of a warzone.