Guydht @ Guydht @lemmy.world

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2 yr. ago

It doesn't, he just talked about how the west bank is not relevant to the geneva convention, and his point still stands in Gaza. Civilian and terror infrastructure is intertwined in Gaza, and that's his argument.

a cease fire means no more dead anyone

On 6/10 there was a cease fire - that didn't prevent Israelis from being slaughtered. Hamas showed no* indication of stopping their massacares. In fact, they did the opposite - they only talk about how glad they are with the massacare and how they intend to do that again.

Israel is perfectly capable of defending itself without comitting genocide

Then what was the 7/10 attack? Even with oppressing the region they can't defend against such terror acts without their air force.

Russia: fighting to expand their territory because they want a new world order led by them Israel: responding to their most terrifying act of terror ever happened on their land.

Reason matters, and a lot. Russia has no good reason to invade Ukraine, Israel has a very good reason to invade Gaza.

Dude when have I equated all Palestinians to Hamas exactly?? I said that war is horrible and that innocents die in it, and that's how it always has been. That doesn't equate to me saying all Palestinians are Hamas. Heck, I think Palestinians are the biggest victims of Hamas, being the main reason for thousands of deaths on innocent Palestinians.

And taking the side of no civilian casualty is just a very privileged position you can say only from thousands of kms away - when your life is threatened, some civilian casualty is justified under war. That's what I meant when I said war is horrible, and that's why everyone no matter who you are should try and prevent it always. But saying a side who has pretty rightfully opened a war, and saying they should stop because you're against all civilian lives lost, is just not helpful and not gonna do anything, since it really is just privileged, having not experienced any part of the conflict yourself. Saying "from my point of view it's bad so don't do it" while not looking at it from the point of view of the other party is really just not helpful in understanding or doing anything.

And about the Apartheid, my bad, I talked about Gaza, not the West bank, where the Israelis are actually entering the region and oppressing Palestinians. I still don't compare it to south africa where it was oppression of your own citizens, but it's still really horrible and the right wing government of Israel needs to fall. For that I'll protest all day.

But again, I really see the people of Gaza as prisoners not of Israel, but Hamas. Israel willingly just fell back from the region in 2005, and from then onwards Palestinian civilians were truly doomed by Hamas (Israel literally physically just walked away) to a constant state of war.

You keep repeating over and over hoping for your point to be true, while it's just not. Keep crying and keep turning a blind eye to the fact that there are 2 sides here who both have valid goals and disregard one of them just because they're bigger and pretty much achieved their goal is bullshit or straight up racism.

History is and forever was on the side of the bigger powers, so no. Looks like history would not be on the side of terrorists.

That's the wrong question. The right question is if the mexican cartels started launching rockets and slaughtering the U.S.bordering Mexico - then what do you think would happen?

Oh so having thousands of armed forces destroying borders in a calculated coordinated attack including drones and rockets is not an army?

Read about Hamas. Learn that they're a small army, coordinated and with levels of commands, platoons, and units.

Stop imagining Israel as being terrorists targeting civilians - they're an army targeting terrorists who target civilians, and who're hiding behind civilians for safety.

Classifying Israel as Apartheid is valid if and only if Israel and Palestinians in the west bank define themselves as Israelis and treat themselves as part of the Israeli national. Surprise surprise - they don't. Neither. Israel classifies Palestinians as basically foreigners, hence no citizen right. And Palestinians don't try to push against it because all they want is a country of their own. Now, providing a Palestinian state is a whole subject in itself, but basically it's hard. And not enough foreign power is used to make it happen - that's the real disservice done to the Palestinians. They never ever talked about Israel accepting them to Israeli society, and no one expects that of them. They're literal foreigners to Israel, with work permits. Of course they won't have a government vote.

Another point was the jewish nature of Israel and how it discriminates - and that's just true. There's indeed a case to be made of Israel needing to be some part jewish, but Israel politics and laws are fucked up, especially regarding settlements. Let's hope they get their shit together and have a working government who actually does good.

And lastly, Gazans moving south. Does anybody in this world remember what war's like? Does anybody remember how many German civilian homes were bombed by the brits in WW2? Does anyone remember the civilian casualties Germany suffered?

War is war. And war is horrible. But expecting a country who just had its worst attack on its land ever to not fight the ones responsible, is extremely privileged by the world. Any state encountering such a big threat on civilian lives would do everything to destroy that threat. And that's what they're doing. The war won't end when all Gazans are dead - it'll end when Hamas has 0 armed terrorists, and 0 threatening capabilities. And that's a goal no one can criticize Israel for pursuing. (Obviously you can criticize their methods - but relative to all recent conflicts - they really are avoiding civilian lives as much as possible considering their enemy.)

Yo what's up with lemmy's being psychos saying they don't care he died since he was a republican

The man was publicly humiliated (by his standards) to the whole world and ya'll encourage it?

Whoever published the blog should be sentenced.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide

I mean there's a whole wikipedia page on the camps china built for them...

My point is that there are so many more wrongdoings and innocent people being prosecuted way more harshly than Palestinians in the world, and the world is only focusing on Palestinians since it's the frontline of the west vs iranian arab society. Those magnitudes of protests weren't around when china put muslims in camps or killed thousands of protestors.

This whole thing is an assault on western ideology. hamas is Iran2.0 and would massacre those same left-wing europeans or Americans who protest for them, in the name of Islam.

"we should never legitimize it"

Okay buddy, sure. Really easy to talk from a peaceful state without constant threats pointed at you. How about providing actual real solutions to conflicts instead of waiting around, doing nothing then yelling when a war breaks out because of what everyone ignored.

The rest of the world did nothing to provide peace in the region - so those same foreigners to the conflicts shouldn't point a finger and be surprised when war happens. Either leave the region alone (just like most disputes happening in Africa for example) or actually do something when it's not wartime. Trying to do something when everything is broken to the point of no return is nothing but virtue signaling.

Those protest should've happened when Hamas won elections. Those protests should've happened when right wing Israeli government came to power. Those protests should've happened when no one did anything about Hamas arming themselves, preparing for war.

Protesting now is doing nothing. Both sides are so fed up with the other that no peaceful resolution, no ceasefire could happen. And screaming about it now is not gonna change that.

It's not just whataboutism, I talked about how Israel did literally everything they could considering they're at war. It's like ya'll forgot how wars worked.

Just imagine the allied forces telling germans "hey yo things are about to get ugly here please leave to this area where we'll bomb way less". There's no other country who treats war with such careful hands, and Israel is still getting shit over it.

War is evil. Israel's wars are the least evil in the world.

https://www.npr.org/2021/05/31/1001936433/who-the-uyghurs-are-and-why-china-is-targeting-them

Dude what? I guess ya'll are really just supporting anything which is against the west, no matter how hypocritical it is. Next thing I'll hear on Lemmy how Ukraine had it coming from Russia.

And what lack of knowledge about this conflict do I have? Please enlighten me. Did Israelis not tell every possible Gazan "hey, leave this area, your terrorist leaders are hiding here and we don't like killing civilians"?

It's like ya'll leave in a fantasy world where no wrong could ever be done towards a side in a conflict which is weaker. It's like you forgot how war actually works.

Not doing any of this stuff would've meant a Palestinian state in Gaza led by Hamas.

Such a state would've killed many more jews.

Is it really that hard to see such obvious facts? What action has Palestinian ever done to warrant faith from the Israeli side that they wouldn't get massacres if Palestinians had a state.

It's as simple as that. Make Israelis not feel threatened, make a state. Do make Israelis feel threatened, get oppression.

And no other country in the world would do differently when feeling threatened. Some would do actual genocide and have 2 million dead.

And yet no one bats an eye when china murders millions of muslims or Armenians are getting wiped out. The west only cares about Palestinians, even when they get warning after warnings of evacuation orders. "Israel says leave north Gaza for fear of your life" "Two weeks pass, plenty of time for anyone to flee" "People who didn't live are fearing their lives"

Come on. Are they supposed to go in there on foot on basically suicide missions to heavily trapped areas because people are refusing to get out of an active warzone after multiple warnings? How about keeping Hamas responsible for evacuating their civilians when they live in active warzones? Israel is legit the only country in the world who knocks first, and ya'll are goving them crap for it. Grow up.

People get surprised when people are killed in warzones. 10/10 logic.

Try to think as an army for just a second. When you send your troops into unknown territory which is 100% trapped, you wanna confuse your enemy. And shutting communication is exactly that.

It absolutely fails at hiding what's going on in Gaza from being revealed, but it *50% succeeds in making their enemies blind during their attack. It's just a military tactic. A proven and effective one.

For more than the last decade Israel spent 0 efforts on raising the Gaza population and completely left them to run their own educational/inner governmental funding. That proved to be the worst mistake they could ever do, as that educational program is pure hate fuel for religious extremists and the government funding (which btw is a lot of funding from foreigners) was used for rockets and anti-tank ammunition instead of safe houses for civilians. Heck, the only safe zones are the underground tunnels, which are only used for Hamas fighters.

All that means is that Israel should've either completely hammer down on stuff going in, and truly be like china murdering muslims, or completely run the region themselves, which is basically colonialism. Which option is good? None. Who can be blamed for that? The Palestinians leaders.

Don't get me wrong, Israel's leaders also chose a very bad option of leaving it alone and letting it grow into a monster, but let's face it - they had no good options on what to do with Gaza. So blaming everything that's happening purely on Israel, is just unfair. What could they have done to prevent this?

They control everything in and out huh... Does that include the rockets and anti-tank ammunition Hamas has?

Give me a break. They had a free hand running their own region for over a decade, and that's what came out of it. Lots of military means - zero safe zones for civilians.