Guydht @ Guydht @lemmy.world

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2 yr. ago

Wait so 70% of Gazans were forcibly relocated, why 50% of Gaza are children under 18...

Make up your mind over your made up numbers please.

And calling this war "Israeli murder" is ignoring the existence of actual terrorists who keep innocent civilians hostage, and who targeted attacked and murdered over 1,000 innocents.

Lol "genocide the natives"

Read a bit about this conflict. This isn't an isolated case, violence in Palestine between arabs and jews has existed since the 19th century. This is just an escalation of that violence, from both sides.

1. Palestine denies the existence of Israel, even stated by the symbols of Hamas and the PLO, coloring the entire state of Israel as their territory. Now, who actually has the right to that land? The ones who bought those lands in the early 20th century and got a majority vote of the U.N to their creation alongside their neighbours? Or is it the ones who objected since the beginning up until today that no jew can rule any part of that land? The biggest diners of the other side's existence are the Palestinians. They have since the beginning denied the right for a jewish state to exist. Israel started to deny a Palestinian state to exist only after the arabs started an all-out war on Israel.
2. Terrorist state? What does that even mean considering they Palestinians aren't their citizens? They're a state who has very hostile neighbours right next to them, and that acts with aggression to aggression. No act of violence against civilians has been started by the IDF, while hundreds of acts of violence have started against civilians by Hamas (the PLO don't directly do terrorism, but they pay terrorist jihad's families for killing innocents).
3. Can you really say that Israel wishes for Hamas? Even after 7/10 can you seriously say that Israel wishes for such a violent terrorist organization to exist right next to their borders? If so then that's some severe case of Stockholm syndrome. Yes, Hamas is simpler to deal with politically, but it's so much more threatening and hard to deal with militarily. How are they supposed to fight people who hide amongst innocents? Hamas is probably the biggest headache to Israel ever. They ruin their relations with Suni arab countries, they make them look bad to the western world by making them bomb civilian infrastructure, and they actively pillage their villages for terror's sake. Seriously, how can Israel wish for that.

Also let's be clear, what Israel wants is the entire land of Israel, including the west bank, all under jewish control. That's obviously their best scenario. Do they get what they wish? No. Do they work for it? Yeah. Can you blame them? Idk. Probably. They really should work more towards creating a Palestinian state in the west bank/gaza, but that could be said for the Palestinian leaders as well, who are still advocating for the entire annexation of Palestinians over the entire land of Israel ("from the river to the sea...").

The military solution is to cleanse Hamas from power.

Destroy all their terror resources, guns, rockets, tunnels. Then put someone else in power who doesn't advocate for and actively and successfully pursues the murder of all Israelis.

And again, the bombings of civilian infrastructure would've been considered as war crimes if Hamas wasn't using them as bases of operations to carry out actual legitimate horrifying genocide against Israelis.

Yes, Israel wants Gazans to stay poor. Coz when they're poor they can't do This

I legit want to know what any of you have done if you were born Israelis. They act in the most humane way possible by anyone in the world, given their circumstances. The fact that their government isn't even more right wing, and isn't advocating the total destruction of Gaza is a shock to me. Their enemies are actively and successfully pursuing them in wars until all Israelis would die. Just imagine if someone like putin was in charge of Israel... Or Khamenei... 2 million would be either in Egypt, or in graves.

"This guy with an absolutely more valid point of view doesn't agree with me so he's a douchebag" Sure. Ok. Whatever.

And comparing this Gaza war with the rest of the world's conflicts is just absurd. No war in recent times has been with so many civilians around legitimate military targets, and that makes this war impossible to win without casualties. Not to mention almost half of Gaza are children, so that data is also heavily skewed.

That same "refugee camp" was heavily populated by Hamas terrorists, which were located there for decades, in concrete buildings. Calling it an innocent refugee camp for the poor and helpless is a loooong stretch after what's been done in 7/10.

Premature babies are evacuated by the IDF when they arrive at the hospital.

And the geneva convention clearly states that deliberately fighting from civilian infrastructure is a violation of the geneva convention, and that once such a case has been made, that same infrastructure is a valid military target. No one cares when Hamas grossly and admittedly break the geneva convention because they're the poor side.

"I used the chad meme so I'm correct"

Um... Sources? First time I hear of them digging tunnels.

But even if they did dig tunnels for non-military purposes in the 2000s, they have good intelligence of it being used as a military storehouse (even if you don't believe their intelligence, which is regarded as one of the best in the world by several nations worldwide, you can hear the same from 7/10 terrorists' testimonies in captivity). And it's proven that Hamas' strategy is digging tunnels for themselves, as in 2014 they used those tunnels in fighting the IDF and for invading bordering villages.

You can choose not to believe it. But when there's footage of actual captured terrorists saying explicitly everything that they're being excused of, and when even the son of Hamas' leader is saying those same things aswell, then I just find it hard to ignore all that evidence. Hamas are publicly evil, advocating to death to all Israelis civilians (shooting rockets/terror attacks indiscriminately), and doing everything they can to prevent the existence of the more peaceful PLO in Gaza (via armed means, see their coup as an example...). So it's really not that hard to believe (given the evidence) that they're also evil towards their own population, and hide under civilian infrastructure, again, after so many testimonies and intelligence reports.

And say what you want about the IDF, but multiple professional army personnel have advocated for how they're the most humane army in the world, doing the most out of any army in the world to make sure they don't target civilians. Do civilians still die? Yes. Is it unavoidable as an act of war? Yes. Are the IDF the best at mitigating those civilian deaths in the world? Yes.

Bro what? Israel digging tunnels in Gaza?

And I don't understand, you're saying it's better to bomb the hospital given it's acting as a military hub? That it's better to bomb it rather than taking it over?

I'm so confused by your comment.

Provided that hospital is used to store ammunition or as an escape route for terrorists - no. It's not insane that it's not condemned. Ukraine doesn't risk their citizens' lives by grossly breaking the geneva convention.

The rules are different because the game is different. Ukraine is not Hamas.

I'm just waiting for the mist of war to be over to see the actual truth. No proof can be verified now, and no actual real proof would be trusted by left media coverage. No information will be shown for the coming days.

Just wait a few weeks then actually form an opinion on whether or not this war is justified, since without confidential information, nobody but Hamas, the U.S, and Israel knows.

I mean, I doubt that... Considering the U.S has better women's rights than the regimes in Afghanistan, I'd like to think they're treated better under U.S custody than under the Taliban. Got any reference to that statement?

And my point isI mean, I doubt that... Considering the U.S has better women's rights than the regimes in Afghanistan, I'd like to think they're treated better under U.S custody than under the Taliban. Got any reference to that statement?

And my point is that Palestine is a. Not a country, and b. Not oppressed like other ethnicities of the world - they're an active part of a very old ongoing conflict which causes great humanitarian disasters, but are not the pure rightful poor oppressed side, and blaming the whole crisis just on the west is wrong.

Israel is at the front of the war on the west, from Syria to Lebanon and Iran. It's in the west's interest that they exist and be strong to be a force in the middle east and defend the west from falling to jihadist rule.

Palestine is not a country... It's an oppressed region with 0 chance of liberation, since their leaders are more focused on arming their children and raping their enemies' wives than actually developing their infrastructures and education system. And the whole world just lets those leaders keep that power which they keep on corrupting.

How is this a meme

Also classic lammy.ml hating everything about the west

In 2005 Gazans had complete control, without a siege over the region. The siege started in 2007. They had their own government and their own freaking autonomy over themselves. That's just facts, whether they line up with your agenda or not.

The siege started after Hamas, an actual terrorist organization that advocates for deadly jihad over all of Israel, gained power in a violent coup, murdering the existing fatah members.

Not to mention that during the duration of said siege those 2 million had water, food and electricity provided by Israeli tax money, not that it makes the situation amazing for Palestinians. But no, that means that they have drinking water and food (at least when they don't slaughter 1400 people from the hand that feeds them)

Reply all you like I won't discuss anything with someone so brainwashed that thinks anyone who doesn't agree with him is a fucking Nazi.

You're truly a disgrace to humanity if you compare this to fascists. You're either extremely ignorant, extremely brainwashed, or just have blind hate towards the west. No matter which of those you are, that's scummy and oh how much I hope people with actual power in this world aren't like you.

Oh right, Gaza the concentration camp where children are forced to work with no pay, women are raped then killed and trains are used to carry people for 3 days without water/food to a gas chamber killing everyone.

Oh oops that was the Holocaust. Silly me, it's just that the media told me Gazans are experiencing the holocaust so I mixed the two up.

Israel mainly kills innocent civilians

You mean during this war or before? If during, then yeah probably (although Hamas won't release the numbers of terrorists/civilians killed) But again, that's just war, and war is horrible. We can all agree on that.

And about 2023 being the deadliest one - it's so much more nuanced than this - it's indeed the Israeli government's fault that things escalated since it's one of the most right-wing governments Israel has ever seen - and their lack of competence should and is blamed for the escalation and for allowing such a major attack to happen. Israel's government has a lot to answer after this war, to a lot of people - especially to Israelis.

That is to say, the escalation in violence was in the west bank, not in Gaza. Gaza was a relatively quiet area for months up until the attack (except for disturbenceses on the fence which Israel stupidly disregarded)

obviously when people say cease fire they mean a real one

Then by that standard there have been 0 cease fires in Gaza since Hamas took over. Rockets are fired from Gaza at least once a year - is that peace in your eyes? Calling for it now after all those years is just ridiculous. Maybe a pause for humanitarian aid, but ceasefire? Basically giving Gaza back to Hamas? What sane Israeli would live in one of the slaughtered Kibutz while Hamas is still in power?

A failure. That doesn't justify genocide of people

War != Genocide. They both have massive civilian deaths - but it's an important distinction. The 7/10 attack does indeed justify entering a war - where sadly lots of civilians are killed. Poor Gazans have both Israel and Hamas to blame for allowing this war to happen.