Guydht @ Guydht @lemmy.world

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2 yr. ago

People in Palestine actually welcome them

Hhmmmmmmmm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_and_massacres_in_Mandatory_Palestine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relations_between_Nazi_Germany_and_the_Arab_world

Lemmy.ml not shit on america any% speedrun:

They 100% should and that should be the main criticism towards Israel. Them funding Gaza - which means funding the Gazan government - Hamas - is how they got such good weapons and a large arsenal as they did. The world should 100% condemn anyone who funds them, and yet barely anyone does.

Maybe the PNA is not the best case for peace in the region, since it pays for families of suicide bombers and calls for intifadas, but they're 100% better than Hamas. And Israel should at least support them more than Hamas.

Nothing to gain? What about an actual decent level of living? Palestinians in the west bank aren't happy, but they're so much more happy than Palestinians in Gaza.

From their own point of view, Hamas rule brings nothing but destruction. Resisting more just slaps them back tenfold. No one wants that, ever. And if they do, then idk what to say to them. I sympathize with their suffering, but their choice is heavily to blame.

And oh please. Calling Israel a genocidal Apartheid state is exactly the propaganda which will cause more violence in the region. Do you want "justice" or do you want people not dying? Personally I don't like people dying, so I like to not villainize any side, when both sides have suffered from the other's aggression. Calling one side genocidal and the other martyrs is exactly why we have this conflict.

You're not antisemitic, you're just stupid.

When the next Holocaust happens (we can see the world persecuting Jews in these very months...), and Israel will be the only one to save you, turn them down, because you obviously hate them so much.

And do what instead? Say "oh jee Hamas, you got us!" And continue living with a constant threat over civilian lives???

Nothing will stop Israel except a Palestinian leader who actually stops preaching for violence and "resistance", and doesn't fund terror in the region. Meanwhile, 0 Palestinian leaders have done so. And when the Palestinian consensus is "destroy Israel", why would Israel stop their invasion? They're objectively evil in Israeli eyes, and Israel has the means to actually properly do something about it.

Actually maybe a third-party governing Gaza would also stop the Israeli invasion. But who tf would wanna take that role.

LOL I swear you have to be kidding.

Seriously, read a bit on the power balance at the time dude. On one side Israel with a much lower population and people who are Holocaust survivors, fighting after 2 weeks of training. And on the other side, you have the (actual full fledged powerful) armies of Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Saudi Arabia and Iraq. Oh and also arab Palestinian militants - back when they could be called militants instead of terrorists, since they targeted military targets instead of civilians.

Seriously, just read even one sentence from someone who knows more than you, and see that the jews were by far the weaker side and it's a miracle they weren't slaughtered.

Oh and learn what genocide means, since you clearly don't know when to use it. Palestinians didn't get a genocide - they got immigration. They got casualties. They got humiliation. And guess what? That's what happens in wars. Especially wars you both declared and lost.

Whatever, I really don't care about what you think. You can blame it all on one side, ignoring the ruthlessness of the other on their enemies and even on their own citizens. Just ignore Hamas hiding guns in schools, ignore them firing rockets from public parks, ignore them targeting civilians (with no military infrastructure/personnel). Just ignore it all, and blame the jews for everything. Just like the 1930s. "War crimes" my ass. If you really cared about war crimes you would've complained to Hamas, not the IDF.

"murder does not justify more murder"

The murder which is happening is by a war. If you don't know that, you're living under a rock. And what I said, is that this war is justified. So yes, this is exactly what you said, you just deny it. War = murder. "Murder isn't justified" -> "war isn't justified". Very simple logic.

Again, when does any of that "proof" video say jews stole land? And again, not the 48 war, since it has the cause of migration in the name itself - war. If war is ethnic cleansing then ohhhh boy are there many ethnic cleansing in the world, and Palestinians are so not special. Don't ignore context. Yes, many Palestinians were refugees. But no, it wasn't because of zionism. It was because of the war. Before the war, there were no Palestinian refugees - because unlike what Al Jazeera preaches, zionism was a settlement movement, and a peaceful one. If Palestinian arabs weren't violent in the resistance to zionism, there would've been no violence. But no, they were violent. Same with their arab neighbours, who want nothing more than death to their neighboring jews.

Dude those same civilian facilities are proven to store artillery. Once a site is being used for war purposes, don't be surprised that it's being destroyed - in a war.

Everybody is criticizing Israel for bombing UN facilities, while no one critisizes Hamas for storing ammunition in said facilities. That's just hypocrisy.

Oh so war is never justified then huh? When you've been massacared with intent for further destruction by that same people, you can't retaliate, you're just supposed to sit back and cry about it. Sure, ok.

Source?

Early zionism is literally just buying land from arabs in Palestine and growing jewish population in said areas. Idk where you got that info from, of alegged stealing of houses, but that just isn't true. Maybe you speak of the 48 war? Which is much later, and is after a full blown war, which everyone acknowledges that there were refugees from said war, and that jews inhabited abandoned arab houses after they left the country. It's like Syrian immigrants going back to Syria after years of being immigrants and demanding the current people who live where their house used to be (or whatever stands in that place) to give that house back to them. That just isn't how war or the world works.

Oh damn I guess churchill is a murderer monster huh.

Intention matters. The fact that you ignore it, is bad.

I still don't see the point here, "mind the border" means that they're the ones who wanna change the existing borders and take over Israel. You mean the people themselves want to take over Israel? If so I agree, I'm pretty sure that's what Gazans want as well. But again that just doesn't sound like propaganda to me, and sounds like the truth.

And come on, of course Israel wants to expel all Gazans. They're the literal worst neighbours to a country ever. But just like Hamas expressed their desire to kill all jews (desire and intent...) in Israel and take over, making an islamic jihadist state, they and Israel both can't do that. They both hate each other, the difference is which one actually follows through the atrocities. Meanwhile, Hamas is winning in the "getting what they want" battle, given that Israel isn't going to kick Gazans out for good.

Blaming Israel for wanting to expel them is ignoring the fact that Hamas wants to murder Israel. It's the biggest double standard.

Again, saying they just suddenly started getting weapons and killing natives is just ignoring the context.

As you said, Jews fled European countries because of antisemitism. But they migrated to Palestine legally buying land and working farms to grow their cities. There was no violence by immigrant jews, and no wars on arabs, like your idea of colonialism. Zionism isn't an empire looking to grow its control, it's finding a home, through legally bought land, in an historically significant place for the jews, after they were persecuted by pretty much everybody. Heck, most of the early killings were started by arabs who simply didn't like jews being next to them (Tel Hai, jaffa/haifa riots, jerusalem stabbings...)

Again, it's isn't an isolated conflict, and it has much context with so much hatred from both sides. Saying "they bad they killed the natives" is just losing 100% of the context and circumstances.

Ummm what? What's propaganda about what he said? He just said Israel doesn't want Gaza and that Hamas wants the entirety of Israel. Which is completely correct, no matter how you look at it.

By "past big conflicts" you mean the 48 war...? Because that's the only war where that happened

And you can reasonably assume that things are different from 70 years ago, and that nobody, not even Israel, wants Gaza now.

Lol what? Does anyone here think anyone in Israel is going to kill 2 million Gazans? It's like no one here knows the difference between mass killings and wars. You don't evacuate civilians in mass killings, you slaughter them in their homes (sort of like what Hamas did on 7/10)

Better pushed out than slaughtered like Be'eri.