Aganim @ Aganim @lemmy.world

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2 yr. ago

I think it requires a bit of both.The average user only wants their computer to work and doesn't care if Linux is OSS or exposes the inner workings of the system more. For them there is simply no reason to install a different OS, pre-installed Windows might be a bit annoying at times, but generally it does its job just fine.

For us choosing a distribution, downloading an ISO image, creating a boot disk and going through an installer which asks 'scary stuff' like "do you want to accept our partition suggestion, or do you want to create your own? Oh PS this action may RESULT IN DATA LOSS" is all easy-peasy.

We are able to find alternatives for programs we need, or are able to track down a Linux version. Either in the distro's package repo, Flatpak (or Snap, for the more masochistic minded) or by compiling from source (with all the complications and parameter setting that sometimes requires). Or we run the Windows EXE in Wine.

Most users simply aren't tech savvy and/or don't care enough to go through these kinds of 'hoops'. Acquiring this knowledge requires investment, without motivation (which usually needs to be intrinsic) that simply won't happen.

We hate stuff like Windows being a black box and Microsoft trying to push their MS accounts down our throats enough to not blindly put up with it. Most people I know just create the account, go through with the installation and go along with their days.

It's the painful truth that yes, it requires a certain attitude to want to switch to a different OS.

What also doesn't help is the attitude I sometimes see in the Linux community. For example, I recently posted my experience with gaming on Linux. In short: it sucked, badly. Some responses I got were helpful, but there were also a lot of 'meh, that game publisher sucks anyway, you shouldn't play their games' responses. Fortunately I'm not a novice when it comes to Linux, but I can image a beginner would just say 'screw it', install Windows again and advise everybody they know to stay the fuck away from that elitist cesspool. If we hate that MS dictates what we do with our devices we sure as hell shouldn't start dictating what our (potential) fellow Linux users do with theirs.

Linux users are inherently more tech savvy because there are no limits.

You clearly have not met my parents. I installed Linux on their PC because they are not tech savvy. Doesn't matter if Windows or Linux breaks down, they can't fix it anyway, so might as well reduce the chance they manage to infect their device with all kinds of malware.

KDE is allegedly better because it gives the user more options, but anyone who's actually used it will tell you that it suffers from the same kind of bloat and braindead design decisions as gnome.

I've used KDE on and off for the past 20 years or so. These days I use KDE on my work laptop and Cinnamon on my personal one. Personally I think they both do their job just fine, but apparently I'm in the wrong.

Ah, Wacky Wheels. Played that so much with my little brother. Good memories.

Give DOSBox-X a try btw. DOSBox development became pretty stagnant unfortunately.

Morrowind.

Can you find this person whom wandered off into the ashlands? They went east-ish.

I've spent more time than I'd like to admit in the Construction Kit to find out where in Vivec's name I had to go this time. Usually it turned out I just barely missed the person or location I had to go before starting an hourlong search.

But despite that still a game I deeply love.

Launch Thunderbird 2!

Giving the car oxygen due to smoke inhalation.

Don't you just love it when they shine those puppy-eyed headlights at you afterwards?

From what I read that actually wasn't true , at least not for the 'you wouldn't steal a car' (or more officially: 'Piracy. It's a crime.') clip.

At least Dave was elected..

Your comment reminds me of a company where I worked for a while. Me and a bunch of other colleagues always arrived around 8:05, due to public transport it was either that our always being in late. So we usually logged in, which took 15 minutes to get to a working desktop, grabbed some coffee and started work around 8:20. As we had no contact with customers, we packed our stuff around 16:55 and left a few minutes early as that would save half an hour of waiting at the station. We'd otherwise be just in time to see our train leave, bloody annoying.

Smokers were allowed 15 minutes of smoking time, on top of the regular break. None of our group smoked, so the end result was getting home a bit earlier while still putting in more hours than required.

At some point somebody took offence to us leaving a bit early, so it was decided that was no longer allowed. We tried to argue that we start earlier, have no smoking breaks, but all in vain. So, from that point on we came in at 8:05, had our coffee until 8:30 at which point we logged in, had another cup while we waited and started work at 8:45. We took our lunch break, ended it with a walk and added the smoking time to that. Shame though that everybody always seemed to forget their cigarettes.

Helps by the way that it is illegal here to expect people to be in early to prepare for work. Slow computers? That's not the problem of the employee. Preparation is work and must be paid as such.

I'm so glad crap like that isn't valid in the EU.

At some point everything seemed to use Havok, due to that I personally don't really have a strong association between Havok and Bethesda games in specific. Just take a look at this (incomplete) list: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Video_games_using_Havok.

Your comment does make me wonder if the Oblivion remaster kept the Bethesda physics jank, Oblivion wouldn't be the same if clutter on the table doesn't start flying the moment you pick up a fork. 😂

I'm a bit strapped for time, so I won't be able to touch on everything you said. But here goes:

It's very likely that verifying the game files would've fixed the issue easily, as it re-runs the first time setup. If that didn't work, deleting the compatibility files would probably have been the next step. I'd be very surprised if one of these didn't fix it.

Of course I had to condense the experience a bit for readability and I don't remember every step, but validating the game files, doing a reinstall and trying different Proton versions were parts of my troubleshooting steps. They absolutely didn't work. I didn't try removing the compatibility files afaik, but switching versions should basically have had the same result as that did trigger an first-time setup each time. The Ubisoft installer wasn't part of that install for as far as I could see, or failed for each proton version without any visible signs.

The rest of the troubleshooting steps you took until the GPU stuff were unnecessary, as they were basically Windows troubleshooting steps, not Linux ones. It's completely expected to have to relearn how to troubleshoot stuff on a different OS and I'd really recommend asking in a Linux gaming community when you run into issues like that, until you've gotten the troubleshooting steps down.

Linux is far from new to me, but gaming is a whole different beast compared to what I usually do with it. The steps I took were the recommendations from Linux gaming communities I came across. Even though I already suspected that the whole 'install the Ubisoft installer through Steam' wouldn't work, if it is suggested, I'm not one to ignore that.

The problem here is mostly that the information offered on various locations differs and it is a question of trial and error to find out what works and what not, especially if you're still figuring out the gaming ecosystem.

"much larger" is relative, software is pretty small in general, especially compared to any modern games. It's really not much space, and the flatpak runtimes will be reused for other flatpaks you install.

From the top of my head it was 3 GB vs 160 MB. Which is quite the difference, especially if you're working with a relatively small SSD. Flatpack is a mixed blessing in that regard, it's not meant as criticism against Flatpack, it's just a trade-off of having sandboxed applications.

Do you mind sharing what distro you were using? It sounds like whatever it is has bad instructions for setting up Nvidia drivers, I'd like to avoid recommending it.

It was Linux Mint, on an Nvidia Prime-based laptop. Drivers were included by default, no installation required, but couldn't load due to not being signed. Hence the 'turned off Secure Boot'. I could have MOK'ed around and signed them, but at that point I simply couldn't be bothered anymore and just went for the simplest solution. Not sure it were official drivers or Nouveau.

Just read this back and wanted to add that I wasn't trying to be rude or condescending at any point, or blaming you for the issues.

No worries, even though I don't fully agree with you on everything, I appreciate your response and the fact you are trying to help out. I already saw somebody else mentioning Bazzite, so my next attempt will be to try that distribution.

I also noticed some 'Ubisoft is just shit' remarks, which might be true, but telling aspiring Linux gamers "well, you shouldn't play that part of your gaming library anyway" is simply off-putting and unhelpful. So thanks again for being constructive, that's what this community needs.

Thanks, I'll give Bazzite a try. Hadn't heard of it before and it didn't come up in my search results when trying to find out what gaming in Linux entails these days. Back in the days Linux gaming was done straight in Wine or, if you wanted to fork over some money, WineX (later Cedega).

Linux is now the best gaming system.

I'll just share how my latest bout with gaming on Linux looked like, compared to Windows.

Install Anno 1800 on Windows:

• Start installation in Steam
• Ubisoft Launcher installs
• Anno 1800 starts
• Enjoy the rest of my evening

Install Anno 1800 on Linux:

• Install Anno 1800 in Steam
• Research how to start game
• Enable Proton compatibility layer
• Game fails to start due to missing Ubisoft Launcher
• Install Ubi launcher using method 'add installer as game, set compatibility layer, install and change executable for application executable'
• Game fails to start due to missing Ubisoft Launcher
• Try with different Proton versions, fail each time
• Install Lutris and install Ubi launcher through that
• Game fails to start due to missing Ubisoft Launcher
• Give up for the evening

Next day:

• Read up some more
• Install Protontricks
• Encounter weird errors when starting it
• Try to find out what is going on
• Suppress tendency to just say 'fuck it' and start Windows
• Install Protontricks through Flatpack instead of system package, as the Flatpack version is slightly newer. Accept that this will result in a much larger installation due to not using system-provided libraries.
• Add Ubi launcher through protontricks, ignoring out-of-date instructions on the Internet
• Start game
• Cry at slideshow performance
• Give up for the evening

Next day:

• Research possible causes of performance issues
• Try multiple ways of enabling Nvidia GPU instead of integrated graphics
• Fail each time
• Turn off Secure Boot
• Correct GPU now available
• Better performance, although still not great
• Feel no enjoyment anymore at getting it to run or while playing

As much as I want to like it, this experience makes me feel that Linux is not fully ready for the masses yet.

Peak gaming performance you say? No sir, not without a CRT monitor filling that table and an IBM Model M to match. This is a rookie set-up.

With all that brown it's as if they accidentally took the Fallout 3 colour palette instead of Oblivion's. Doing a replay now and (Pip) boy, I forgot how bland the Capital Wasteland looks before you get used to it.

It is time for you to leave the United States.

Well, considering the political climate I can't really argue with that.

Relax in my ass.

I'm fully aware of the irony here, considering what the song is about.

Ah yes, I had such good times as a kid when I came down with pertussis despite being vaccinated. Two weeks of coughing until I literally threw up, amongst others. Not something you want anybody to go through if it can be helped.