Taking for granted
Taking for granted
115 comments
-
-
Or some more sage advice: keep interviewing and an eye on salaries and compare that to your realistic prospectives at your job. Employers aren't dumb, and if they see that you move around a lot they might not even bother hiring you.
-
I have a lot of acquaintances in my field that seem to have no problem changing jobs every 1-2 years and keep doing better each time.
-
2ish years is the Goldilocks zone of job hoping. Less then that and you look more trouble than you are worth. More than that and you miss out on real pay raises. Though of course if you have it good then you don't have to jump.
-
It does work for a while but eventually higher end stuff they will pass you on. Training a new employee is about 6 months worth of work, so spinning someone up just on new projects/ history takes a good chunk of time.
-
-
My manager does this. If he sees that a job candidate hops jobs a lot he won't give them an interview. That being said, our yearly raises meet/exceed inflation and he's a pretty good manager
-
Just because they are good and your job gives raises doesn't mean previous employers did.
If you want loyalty get a dog, I work to get paid.
-
That's not a very logical approach.
If the qualifications are in place, your manager may be losing out on good and qualified workforce that would be loyal if they got treated well
-
-
This is pretty dumb advice, because someone who's hopping every 2 years and getting passed on interviews is still getting more interviews than someone who's not applying at all.
-
How much is moving around a lot? Because 2-3 years turn over is pretty common in IT and it doesn't seem to prevent being hired. It may even be considered as better experience than the one of an engineer that worked on a single system for 10 years.
-
I'm not saying you're wrong...and as I age, I'm asked more and more about my job hopping history...but I am starting to feel like the negatives of a long history of job hopping are in many ways balanced out by the long history itself.
I'm a CAD drafter with 17 years of experience in 5 different jobs. In interviews it's more and more common to get questions about my plans for the future and how long I plan to stay with (company that is interviewing me). Each time, I tell them that I'm prepared to retire from their company in a few decades as long as they take care of me and keep a good working environment and competitive compensation.
Whether I'm just in a good market for my skills, or job hopping isn't the deterrent some people seem to think it is, I have been getting a constant stream of recruiters filling my inbox for the past decade, whether I've been looking or not, and I've honestly never not gotten an offer for any position I was actually interested in.
If I felt it was a good fit and was interested in talking to them, it has always led to an interview, and if I was still interested after that, an offer. Every time. Granted, often the offer was way less than I was currently making or in the interview we realize it's not a good fit...but never once has my job history been an issue that comes between a position that's a good fit and a job offer.
-
That's very interesting stuff, thank you for your perspective.
-
-
From one person's experience (mine): They don't read CVs that closely. I've got a couple of 1 year jobs (not contracts) and they're more interested in what I did rather than why so short. If they ask I tell them it's because I didn't like the position but gave it a go for a year. I also have a 2 year gap in employment none of them are interested in for 4 jobs now, they don't even spot the missing years and I've had to point it out in interviews because it's a story of how I deal with big tasks.
If they are that petty that they'll pass me over because of something like that then that employers policies would raise more flags than I'd want to deal with anyway.
When hiring you have hundreds of CVs pass by, I'm looking for experience, we'll sort out these other details in the interview.
Caveat: I am older now, more senior but never had issues finding work.
-
-
Yeah the new strategy is lateral climbing. Companies don't value loyalty and don't give raises for sticking around anymore, so fuck em.
-
...I should look for a new job, perhaps
-
Doesn't hurt to check out your options. And almost any job will welcome you back (usually at your new pay rate) if you change your mind down the road.
Over my career, lateral moves have netted me +80%, +30%, and 20%. Not to mention quality of work/life improvements.
Most companies basically offer a < 5% raise every year, which is just around inflation. Maybe a 10% bump if you get promoted. The wider world values your skills much more.
-
Follow the ABCs. Always Be Checking.
It doesn't cost you a dime to keep your resume up to date and to check Indeed and Linked In one every few weeks for jobs like yours in your area.
Worst case, you look around and find there's nothing in your area paying much better than you are currently earning. Congrats. You're in as good a position as you can reasonably expect.
More likely though, you'll see one or more of a few other trends in your search:
- Employers are all looking for a specific skill adjacent to your skill set that you don't have. Might be time to look into a class or something to pick this skill up and increase your potential.
- Employers around you are all willing to pay more than you're making but want more experience. In this case you can sit tight...or throw your hat into the ring even with less experience. They may take a flier on you, especially in this tight labor market.
- Employers around you are willing to pay more for your skills and experience. This is most likely but you now need to check out why, and decide if you're interested.
Even if you're not really interested (maybe the specific opening is too far away or not a big pay increase or something) it may still be worth reaching out, even if just for interview practice. Lots of people really struggle with interviews, and being able to do one where you're not really intent on landing the job may be a valuable experience.
-
-
I laugh at people bitching about their pay. Move. On. Why would the company suddenly throw you a 20% raise!? Out of the goodness of their heart?
My last 3 jobs (top pay): $14 -> $22 -> $39. At this point I could probably jump ship for more but I'm quite content to retire out of this place.
Stay put 3-5 years, gain experience, jump. When we moved here my buddy took a job at an oil change place, barely above min wage and far below his skillset. Kept job hopping and now he's making $120K+.
-
So interesting story. The company I work for, and have for over 10 years (right out of grad school), started to fall behind in my salary in 2020. I was beginning to consider other companies despite loving my job, but they apparently realized they were about to have a huge issue with a lot of mid-career staff leaving and gave us huge raises. Last year I got a 20% raise, this year a 8.5% plus a 2% bonus. I started at $86k in 2013, and am now up to $179k. I could do a little bit better with other companies, but not by a huge margin, and I really love my company and the work I do. It's a non-profit, so it's nice getting to focus on doing good engineering without answering to share holders.
-
Right!
Also, if your employer only bumps you up to where you should be after you threaten to leave after years of under-compensation, they've still won, not you. Sure you're now being paid fairly but you'll never get back all that pay you should've been getting all along. And if you don't have that money, they do.
-
-
It’s sad how true this is. I quit my job and went to work for another company for a year. The previous company contacted me wanting me back, and hired be back after a year for $15k more than before. I’ve been there a year now and got a 3% raise. Probably should just quit again and get rehired
-
Suddenly no more office-only or office-first policies, suddenly there is money to offer, suddenly there is possibility to have a better computer.
Also suddenly HR system couldn't work for a week, so signing a new counter-offer contract might not be possible at the moment. "Cancel your offer, you will sign in next week".
Interesting stuff :)
-
That's a shitty move 😅
But really, sometimes someone from the top just wants everyone in the office so hard that no counter-offer can outweigh the desire to quit
-
-
Stupid question, wasn't that a risky move? I mean, the way I was raised to think by my parents I can hear their voices in the back of my head if I went through a situation like this, similar to this:
"But aren't you worried they might hire you then fire you just out of spite for switching companies? And then what are you gonna do?"
-
Not OP, but companies don't really care about people to that degree. They act for profit, or perceived profit, or to avoid a loss- someone that they know to be useful who is already familiar with the business is more valuable than an unknown.
-
It wasn’t risky because I wanted to leave. I had problems with how they ran things. Then I realized the new place was even worse, and the old place reached out to me offering my job back. They explained how many of the things that I had issues with had been resolved or were being worked on. And they weren’t lying because I’m still there and quite happy.
-
-
-
Sad, but true. First 7 years of my software career were split between two companies and despite 3 promotions and exceeding expectations in reviews regularly, salary growth was between 2-5% YoY.
Most recent 5 years of my career I've changed jobs every 6ish months and am now averaging about 40% YoY salary growth.
-
Insane that a company will pay you a 20% premium to hire someone that they'll spend 6-months training just to watch said person fly off to another firm.
Contracting is even worse. Bring someone on to do menial piecework at 2x-5x the median company salary, then kick them out so you can bring on another person who has no idea how your company operates to do the same entry-level jobs. All so you don't have to tell investors how many people are actually on your payroll.
No wonder the business failure rate is so fucking high.
-
And then they act like it’s the employees who are wrong. I bet every single one of the job hoppers enjoying these huge salary benefits would prefer to just chill in the same job forever if it achieved the same thing.
-
It's an absolute cluster. It's also led to me just not caring about the job or company anymore (not like I should).
I love supporting the team and my immediate coworkers, but I'm not there to make friends. For all we know our entire project gets canned one day anyway.
It's a sad state of affairs to basically take advantage of this situation, but like...company loyalty doesn't pay my bills.
-
There are also a second
handcaste of contractors, it's the ones that work as ordinary employees but employed by another company so that they don't get benefits -
Contracting is even worse. Bring someone on to do menial piecework at 2x-5x the median company salary
Lol, as a contractor, I bring in value the current team can't deliver, and when I leave the team has gained skills and delivers better work. You sound like somebody with very limited, bad experience and decided to hate something you don't understand.
-
-
-
I was born into a family run company. Gave them 10 years of my life. The first few years I worked really hard and got a 2-3 dollar raise. Shortly after, minimim wage went up to 50 cents below what I was making. I did not get another raise until 2-3 years down the line. Regardless who your employer is, get treated fairly or leave for somewhere that will treat you fairly.
-
And if you left based on that stagnant wage, I bet they gave you the guilt trip about loyalty, and how hard it is to operate a small business, as if that somehow makes it okay to underpay you.
-
They weren't too bad when I left and even pitched in for some of my schooling. I still don't feel bad taking a couple cans of soup whenever I visit though. And the work did teach me a lot of skills and a great work ethic.
-
-
-
I've been with the same place for about 16 years. I wasted a lot of time staying in one department trying to be the best employee. I've moved repeatedly just within the company. Because moving within the company is pretty easy to do. The yearly pay raises I was getting was garbage. By moving departments and renegotiating my pay I've effectively doubled my pay from 4 years ago.
When there's no incentive to stay but all the reason to go...
-
Join a union job.
-
Since you mention it and I have little knowledge on the subject: How would your average person in the U.S. (in this case) find and apply for union jobs?
-
Well I’m honestly not sure how many IT unions there are so here’s a crash course on how to start one.
https://www.rankandfile.ca/starting-a-union/
Alternatively, one could approach an already established union and discuss joining.
-
-
Telling your manager how shit they are is very satisfying too
-
It's not worth it if you chase money. Even the biggest assholes at your previous job might end up in a place adjacent to you, especially if you don't look internationally (or at least out of your area) for jobs.
-
I wouldn't recommend burning any bridges you don't have to.
Though my last employer was pissed when I got an offer for 30% more when he spent the last 6 months training me.
He immediately counter-offered to match and he didn't even have to check with anyone. I called him out on underpaying me by 30%. This was probably a mistake, but he was kind of an asshole anyway so meh.
-
-
I read a few times that there is a breaking point between people who switch jobs every 3 years on average. Any less often you make significantly less at retirement.
I'm sure there is a value that's too often but I've tried to stay pretty close to the 3 year mark and we make about 5x what my wife and I wanted to make at retirement.
-
It sucks but it's true. These days, loyalty just means you're easier to take for granted.
-
I'm staying put till the interest rates start falling. I don't want to get hired (locked into a particular salary order of magnitude) when capitalism is cautious. I want to get hired when capitalism is stupid
-
This comment makes no sense. You can change jobs any time, and the sooner you get paid more, the sooner you can switch to a position that pays even higher
-
You may be right - I do see my gigachad ex-coworker change companies every year. Guess I'm just more scared of having lots of short employments on my CV, or maybe I'm just locked into my way of thinking even if it doesn't make much sense.
-
I think the idea is that more employers are being cautious right now, and so employees lose a bit of leverage going into negotiations. They'd rather wait with what they have, some sense of stability, and enter the job market again when things are looking better for the employees.
Is this necessarily true or accurate? I don't really know, that's a bit outside of my pay grade, but I get the reasoning
-
Also capitalism has no bearing on what you're paid.
Like, you can work exclusively in government roles, NGOs, or co-ops and change jobs every 3 years and make vastly more than you were making when you started.
-
-
I think interest rates are usually lowered to combat a recession. I.e. when you really do not want to be looking for a job.
-
-
Yep, a medium sized youtuber that worked as HR said this to everyone that is looking for a raise: change company and come back.
-
I have been working at my current company for two years. Because China's economic environment is not good, I have never dared to leave this job.
-
which china?
-
-
I get what the market gets, we pay the average for your age, experience and some other factors. So I get a bump anyway since I am older and have more experience every year and when the market gets a bump that adds to that. So it is somewhere between 5-15% per year. Except for this year where somehow the average pay went down and I got zilch. Still the company is fully owned by its employees (I make like 3k a year from dividends, not a lot but it is basically free money) and the benefits are great. So not eager to jump ship just for a pay increase.
-
Yuppp even just changing and going back
-
Yep, been at this job 10 years and only seeing annual raises of about 2%. Maybe we got 3-4% last year, but that was the exception and that was still a 4-5% paycut given what inflation is/was. I'm comfortable at my job though is what keeps me, and I'm sure that's what businesses bank on. Workers are too afraid to look elsewhere for a job, so they'll just stick it out no matter how much they're losing.
-
-
I laugh at people bitching about their pay. Move. On. Why would the company suddenly throw you a 20% raise!? Out of the goodness of their heart?
My last 3 jobs (top pay): $14 -> $22 -> $39. At this point I could probably jump ship for more but I'm quite content to retire out of this place.
Stay put 3-5 years, gain experience, jump. When we moved here my buddy took a job at an oil change place, barely above min wage and far below his skillset. Kept job hopping and now he's making $120K+.
115 comments
Someone I used to work with gets paid a truly ridiculous amount of money because she changes jobs around every 14 months to 2 years. She hates every job she takes and is constantly worried that her boss hates her in every role. I don't think she's happy, despite the huge pay. I'd rather be happy. I work to live, not live to work.
I hope she retires early and enjoys life after work.
FIRE people know
That's the thing, being able to pay bills makes me happy. Work will never make me happy.
That's the thing, paying bills doesn't make you happy, it just temporarily eliminates the drop in happiness that would occur if you didn't pay those bills.
I'm in a unique and enviable position where my work is basically nothing on the day to day. It pays enough to get by, barely, but it gives me so much free time that well... That aspect of work makes me happy lmao
Yeah, I like my job and love my team. I'm truly afraid of losing that.
Yeah, i have a friend like that. Gets paid twice (maybe 3x?) what i do but has no friends and is miserable. Well, things have been getting better for him at least and i've been making more money lately so i guess things are looking up.
So, you have a friend that has no friends? 🤨