Spotify made £56m profit, but has decided not to pay smaller artists like me. We need you to make some noise | Damon Krukowski
Spotify made £56m profit, but has decided not to pay smaller artists like me. We need you to make some noise | Damon Krukowski
If you want to do the maths, the maximum one can possibly earn in Spotify royalties is $0.003 a stream. It doesn’t add up to a living wage for most artists.
And now, to make matters far worse, starting in 2024 Spotify will stop paying anything at all for roughly two-thirds of tracks on the platform. That is any track receiving fewer than 1,000 streams over the period of a year.
So if my maths are right, this means people not getting paid...are people that would make less than 3 dollars in a whole year?
Which really illuminates how fucked it is that they aren't paying those people.
These tiny artists earning barely anything are evidently a major enough cost sector that it's worth Spotify just telling them to get fucked. Playing their content is evidently significantly important to Spotify, but not enough to justify an annual check that isn't even enough to buy a beer.
Any track, not any artist. You could have a hundred tracks getting hundreds of streams a piece. Maximum before cutoff would be about $3/track. Not a ton but could be hundreds of dollars. And combining that from dozens to thousands of artists potentially in that boat.
Your math assumes those people only have one track on Spotify. I currently have 25 tracks on Spotify. Without advertising or promotion of any kind, I earned about $12 this year. The big problems are:
I have no delusions about ever making a living off Spotify (or my extremely niche music in general), but the idea that a corporation should be able to monetize my work and not have to pay me anything for it is sort of distasteful
you dont have to let them monetize anything. host it yourself, or sell your music on other sites.
And it's likely a good bit less than 3
Some context is that this is Spotify's first profitable quarter in quite a while. Also, there are 11 million artists on Spotify. I won't pretend to have any data on listening distribution, but even naively and stupidly going with a uniform split, that's of course $5 per artist if you eliminated Spotify's profit entirely. In reality, most of those will have next to no listeners, and the vast majority of streams are going to the top several thousand.
The deeper question to ask is where all the streaming revenue is actually going, and the answer to that isn't to line Spotify's pockets; it's to the labels.
It's a bit of a confusing situation. Spotify pays the labels for the rights, but also has to pay the artists? Do the artists not get money from the labels for the money they got from seeling their songs? Do artists that own their own songs get a larger cut from Spotify?
And yeah 56mil is nothing to a business like this, I'm surprised it's not more profitable with all the subscriptions and ad money. It's like THE platform for music nowadays.
I have around 48k streams on spotify and I’ve earned a whopping $172. Their new payment model would bring that down to essentially $0.
Why is anyone still using Spotify?
They have money to pay Joe Rogan an absolutely obscene amount of money which could have made hundreds of artists life awesome apparently (which feels more like a bribe). So it is clear, they have the cash to pay others too. They just choose not to
I hate the company but I haven't found another streaming service with a similar amount of music, sound quality and algorithm. I have a jellyfin instance, but it lacks the choice and algorithm.
Edit: I am currently in the process of switching to Tidal. It has pretty much all the niche artists that I usually listen to, the algo is pretty good (at least thats what other ppl say), the audio quality is very good and it has a really nice UI. Also, it pays Artists twice as much as Spotify.
It doesn't have a native App for Linux, but there is https://github.com/Mastermindzh/tidal-hifi, which is an electron wrapper for the web-ui that is also available via Flatpak and works well so far.
Tried tidal and didn't work well for me with Android auto. You can actually use something like tune my music to copy your playlists to every main service for testing.
I used apple music. I don't like Apple in particular, but they pay artists, and don't pay Joe rogan
I actually found the music suggestions were way better than Spotify which mostly just repeated stuff I heard
Bandcamp and Tidal. Please everyone, we need to kill Spotify, they hate artists.
Bandcamp was sold off without the unionized employees. If you're doing this to be pro-labour, you can't really support Bandcamp right now.
As a fellow Bandcamp enjoyer I am quite sad about its enshittification. Someone made Faircamp as an alternative. I hope that Funkwhale will fill the soundcloud/bandcamp niche.
I know, but so far, it's still the best way to give money to the creators. It's basically 9:1 in favor of the artists when you buy an album.. Hopefully a fair alternative will come up in a near future. Funkwhale is slowly getting better . Anyway, anything is better than Spotify.
Damn it. And I had JUST made another comment elsewhere in favor of Bandcamp.
I feel like you’re doing everyone a disservice when you don’t tell us the most beneficial way for us to hear your music.
The best way is always to buy the music directly from the artist, in this case:
What's the pay rate for artists?
The justification for this is demonetizing white-noise tracks or other work without creative effort that supposedly costs spotify too much. I'm not a fan of the direction this is going because one of the best things about the platform was it's selection of underground music. This just buries it deeper and doesn't help artists that are trying to break through. It just shovels the profits to the top earners who are already doing quite well. There aren't many alternatives and bancamp has been passed down from epic games to songtradr and isn't anywhere near a real alternative yet.
How much of this is Spotify's fault and how much is the major record labels sitting between Spotify and the individual artists?
And is there a better place for us consumers to go and vote with our wallet? Ideally somewhere that isn't one of the 5 major tech giants that control everything
Cory Doctorow writes extensively about how it's Spotify's fault, as an extension of the common exploitation of musicians in the industry, in the excellent book Chokepoint Capitalism. Here's a short summary of the Spotify argument by the author: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZ5z_KKeFqE
The newest part, which is Spotify refusing to payout what small artists are owed if they don't hit a certain streaming threshold, is 100% on Spotify.
For alternatives, Tidal allegedly pays better and at least doesn't do this. Qobuz is not owned by any big tech company.
We will never know, but somehow people think it's our problem to deal with.
The record labels that own Spotify
If you want to do the maths, the maximum one can possibly earn in Spotify royalties is $0.003 a stream. It doesn’t add up to a living wage for most artists.
And now, to make matters far worse, starting in 2024 Spotify will stop paying anything at all for roughly two-thirds of tracks on the platform. That is any track receiving fewer than 1,000 streams over the period of a year.
Honestly, does the 1k floor matter much? Based on the above text, the most that such a track can possibly make is $3/year. It's a safe bet that most aren't sitting right at 999 views and the maximum revenue per track; most are probably well below that. I have a hard time seeing someone caring much about that.
I'm not saying that there isn't possibly some kind of business model for which a track making $1/year or something this might make sense (massive numbers of cheap machine-generated tracks targeting very specific tastes, that all get a few views each). But for conventionally-produced music, I think that if you're making a song that's generating 50 cents or 10 cents a year or something, it's basically not on your radar financially.
There's bands I listen to that have <10 monthly listeners. They still deserve their $3 a year IMO.
Honestly, 56 million profit is really not much. How many artists are getting next to nothing? 100,000? Splitting that profit between them leaves each with 560 per year. There's even less when you include more.
And if Spotify raises the prices to pay more per play people will leave, leaving Spotify with less money to hand out. Having asshats like Rogan getting millions or the deals huge artists, who are already filthy rich like Taylor Swift, make with Spotify are what's hurting small artists. I think Spotify has the same issue as the rest of the world. There is enough for everyone, it's just not equally distributed.
Also no fair competition from Apple and google
I haven't used Spotify in a while. I buy stuff on Bandcamp (Bandcamp Friday usually).
Do you know if this still gives artists the most cash after Epic's purchase(and recent sale to songtradr)?
https://get.bandcamp.help/hc/en-us/articles/1500006084082-What-are-Bandcamp-s-fees-
They charge a 15% fee. So the artist (if independent) or record label (if not) gets 85% of whatever you pay.
I believe on Bandcamp Friday the artist gets 100% of the sale. I'm not sure if they're going to keep doing it after the sale to songtradr.
The loss of bandcamp's independence is a tragedy
I use Bandcamp instead of Spotify now, because that's what most of my musician friends use to sell their music and recommend as the best way of supporting artists directly, and some of my favourite current artists are active on there. Yeah I can't just stream and make playlists of whatever I want, and it's more for new music than older stuff, but I can scroll through and play the suggested tracks which are far more interesting and diverse than anything Spotify would suggest to me, and then I can buy the stuff I really like. I'm slowly building up enough stuff that way to have an interesting collection on my phone to listen to, and it's also introduced me to some really cool music that I wouldn't have heard about from Spotify.
It's looking like Bandcamp is going to get axed: Bandcamp lays off half its staff after buyout by Songtradr
Capitalism is a machine for producing tragedies.
The only silver lining is even if Bandcamp goes away, I can keep the music I bought on it. It's all drm free. If a streaming service shuts down, you're typically left with nothing despite having paid every month.
I hope Bandcamp survives, and somehow regains independence.
I don't know what to do honestly. I'm fully aware of the situation. Artists deserve better then the shit they're always getting, I'm not disagreeing. But here's the thing, buying music is nice and all, but one: Bandcamp is going to shit. And two, I just can't afford it.
I'm poor and I listen to a lot of things. Buying all that isn't possible for me. Right now, I'm using Deezer, because they offered 3 months for free. And you know what? Just the 10 bucks a month that I'm saving is making a huge difference in my life.
Not to mention that discovering music without streaming services is quite hard. I left Spotify a long time ago, when the home page started recommending me more Podcasts then music. I tried a lot of things and I came to the conclusion that I hate all music streaming platform but they're still, by far, the best way for me to listen to and discover music.
If I love an album, I'll still buy if I can afford it (which I often can't).
I just can't afford it.
I'm poor and I listen to a lot of things. Buying all that isn't possible for me.
So basically: you can't afford the volume of product you want to consume at a price that's sustainable for artists, but want the product anyway and you see that as some unsolvable dilemma? Have I got that right?
Look, it sucks that you're in that financial situation. Not here to downplay that struggle. I've lived like that and it fuckin sucks.
But maybe the answer is to value the effort of musicians and either pay them for their work or consume less?
But maybe the answer is to value the effort of musicians and either pay them for their work or consume less?
What benefit would that decision have? Artists would still receive the same amount of royalties. @Plume would still spend the same amount of money. What benefit is there to artificially limit his music listening hobby because of copyright law?
“Have you tried not being poor? No? How about forgoing a creature comfort to spite a big company in an ineffectual boycott?”
Would love to know if this is better at Tidal than at Spotify. After all, that is the main reason I switched.
Fuck em..
Just buy music directly from the artist whenever possible....
I did, I cancelled Spotify and switched to Tidal because of this, and noted the reason in my exit survey.
I'm...not seeing the problem here. I'm fine with there being a minimum before a check is issued as long as the amount is reasonable, and $3 seems pretty reasonable.
That's how it works with a lot of things, including advertising, referrals, etc.
Maybe I'm missing something?
It's not a minimum before a check is issued. If you do not have a certain number of annual listeners on a track you never get paid out for it. If you had 100 tracks that were each streamed by 999 listeners who each streamed them 100 times per year every year, Spotify will no longer pay you a dime, ever.
I think a key point of confusion is in the way they presented it. They talk about how many songs have "less than 1000 listens" and that those would only make $3, but then their new policy is to deny payment for "less than 1000 listeners." If each of those listeners streamed the song once per month, you're talking closer to $40 than $3, and that's on a per song basis.
People outraged by anything and not knowing enough to know to not be outraged.
After several of my favorite songs disappeared from Spotify, I've adopted a different approach to music.
If I see on on a band show merch stand, I buy a cassette. It's more of a novelty item and a way to slightly support the band. While I do have a portable tape player, I only rarely take it out. I switched from LPs to tapes because of the costs and huge effort associated with playing or storing them (that is, if you do it right are are not OK with fucking up your LPs), but tapes are cool and don't have that many storage or playing problems.
Other than that, I've stopped paying for any kind of streaming services, and save the 10$ per month to just buy one or two (new or old) albums from my favourite artists on Bandcamp, that I've spend the last month listening to the most. The albums I buy I add to my NAS library, which usually replaces stolen copies of said albums that I've previously got from Redacted.
This allows me to keep a pretty expansive library, by just stealing what I need, but with a promise that I'll eventually buy the album (using the money I saved on streaming services), if it's something that I've listened to extensively. I'm also not at mercy of streaming services, that can take away my music whenever they decide to.
So far I've been doing this for a few years, and even increased my budget for just buying albums if I can't immediately find them on Redacted.
You know what, this makes me feel a lot better about using an ad-blocker when using their site. Although, I would prefer if the artists I listen to didn't exclusively use Spotify for some reason.
I'm all for ad blockers. But this doesn't solve the creators' issue with not getting paid. The internet is a severely underutilized resource. Creators should be able to sell their content directly to us without middlemen like these.
Creators should be able to sell their content directly to us without middlemen like these.
They can and do. Most are just lazy/uneducated/choose not to.
I agree with that and some of the artists I listen to actually do use platforms where you can purchase their music directly but unfortunately buying the music directly just really isn't viable for me. Platforms that use ads for monetization are really the only way that's viable but the artists I listen to only use Spotify, or if they do use other platforms, they just use them for demos and other promotional stuff.
Why are you not moving to a different distribution model where you'll get what you're worth? I'll go where the music is. If you keep putting it on Spotify then I'll play it on Spotify.
There are plenty of better ways to obtain music, such as actually buying the music instead of streaming it. And, hey, that's like saying you'd stay on Reddit because that's where the content is. Ethics should come before easy entertainment.
Spotify has the market pretty much cornered, though.
Someone mentioned Faircamp recently. I haven't had a chance to look into it properly but it looks great!
I do not get paid every time it runs for the rest of my life, so why should you?
Sorry if I misunderstood you, but this feels rather easy to answer: because you are being paid to write the code. Spotify doesn't pay anyone to write music (well maybe they technically do for some ads or something, but it's definitely not how they acquire more music to add to the library), they just pay for streaming rights on music that was somehow already independently produced. And tiny unknown musicians have no leverage to negotiate better terms than what Spotify offers.
This is one of the reasons I use soundcloud when listening to music.
I don't even like using Spotify or Pandora, it's full of ads and I can't play what I want to play. I just go to YouTube or download what I want. Their structure sucks.
I have never really seen the attraction of Spotify. Music is accessible so easily in so many ways. I own thousands of CDs, listen to the radio all the time, and have at least 100gig of music files to make playlists from, much of it music by people I know. I play and listen to live music regularly. What could spotify possibly offer me that I can't access in a more ethical and recogniseable way?
Yeah I cancelled my Spotify and I'm not sure I'll be releasing any new music on streaming services. I'm over it
🤖 I'm a bot that provides automatic summaries for articles: ::: spoiler Click here to see the summary My current band, Damon & Naomi, only provided the soundtrack for a comparatively modest trek, “from Berlin to Beijing three times”.
We’ve been hearing these slogans for decades, while watching our incomes from creative work go down and down, until finally now, for many of us on Spotify, they will hit absolute zero.
Down at the level of most tracks on the platform, a devoted fan who listens to the work of a lesser known artist over and over still pays most or all their subscription money to Ed Sheeran, Drake, Taylor Swift and Bad Bunny.
You can count me among that number, along with the US-based advocacy group I am a part of, United Musicians and Allied Workers (UMAW); or Tom Gray of the band Gomez, who launched the very visible campaign #BrokenRecord in the UK.
We have been calling for a switch from this so-called pro-rata accounting, to a user-centric system that would reward artists directly with the money paid into the pot by those who actually listen to our work.
None of these three extremely well-capitalised corporations need to listen to artists at the low end of the scale like me, even though collectively we are providing the bulk of content on their platforms.
Saved 78% of original text. :::
I remember when Joe Rogan was getting giant paycheck from Spotify promoting antivax stuff, and people talked about moving to Apple Music, but it feels like many just stuck with Spotify.
I came across a post on instagram that says that Al Yankovic's 80 million stream on playlist only netted him enough money to buy a sandwich.
Also, Spotify underpaying artists, making fake playlists with cover artists to undermine artists, are not new. It feels like the mainstream crowd just doesn't care, which pushes me further into depression.
I personally don't care because if a company isn't paying you for your time/work, that's their problem to sort out, not mine. I will go where the music is. If artists start leaving Spotify and it becomes a wasteland of nothing but trash, then I'll find new places to get it from. Why should I worry about their income? I'm paying for a service, I get the service and use it. I have my own income issues to handle, I don't need theirs too.
What Spotify does affects the entire music market. Why should you worry about their income? Because Spotify's strategy makes it harder and harder for musicians to have the income to keep on making music. If you care about having music to listen to, you should care about this. Also, Spotify and music is just one example of the overall exploitation of workers. If you don't stand for artists when it's their livelihood at stake, why should anyone stand up for your rights when it's your livelihood at stake?
Found the egoist!
You’re welcome to feel that way but you basically surrender any right to complain about the state of the music industry.
Sony and Universal own a pretty decent chunk of Spotify, so they have every incentive to force their artists to stay on the platform.
This is a valid opinion to have as a consumer in the here and now.
However, if you think about the bigger system and how it will change in a few years time, you'll notice that the matter is not quite this simple. It's easy to imagine that no single musician is brave enough to take the first step onto a new platform devoid of users, just like you are not willing to jump to a new platform devoid of musicians. And if no artist takes the first step and no user takes the first step, then the status quo will prevail. Now, that may not necessarily be a bad thing. But if artists are not paid enough to continue making music for Spotify, then they'll stop making music for Spotify. That's fine if you like mainstream music of whoever games the system successfully. But it's easy to see how that would be a loss to some people.
Reporting on Spotify's payments to artists typically puts payments at 0.003 - 0.005 USD per stream. 80,000,000 streams at 0.003 is just shy of a quarter of a million dollars. And it's totally fair to still argue about whether that's enough or whether it's fair to the many small artists than Weird Al, but his video is definitely a joke and not reflective of the actual income unless he's getting unbelievably shafted by his label
Which is why it really sucks. Now people remember that number, keep repeating it, and essentially he has become a fake news peddler. Good job, Al.
When pay is basically non existent is there a reason to be on spotify? Or is it for "exposure" in hopes of finding new fans.
The same reason merchandise sellers are on Amazon even though Amazon forces them to lower prices and make less: if you're NOT on Amazon, people just won't find you. If you're not on Spotify, you don't exist in the music world to some people. Because otherwise where else will they search for you? Youtube Music or Apple Music, both pay sites. Otherwise you're having word of mouth or searching manually.
It was hyperbole, unless his sandwich costs 200-300k. Which is the reason why his statement was very questionable.
https://vid.puffyan.us/watch?v=fNjQG7y9aoQ
I love Weird Al! But pretty sure this was hyperbole. The point still stands, though. It really is depressing that people just follow "everybody else" when giving abusive megacorporations money. Same with social media, especially when there are great, healthy, ethical alternatives to be found is the Fediverse.
Edit: I'll just link pixelfed just because...
Apple Music isnt much better and giving even more power to such a huge corporation sucks. Regardless though, there’s this thing thats been understood with services/products where most people don't switch unless the competition is 10x better.
Apple Music pays two time what Spotify does. Easy pick between the two.
I'm stuck in a family plan with 4 of my friends + a friend's sister. I'm open to getting a Family Tidal Hifi Plus, but I'm not so sure, if all of them are willing to change for a higher tier and using a different servicr.