Rescuers recover more than 260 bodies at music festival attacked by Hamas

Wholesale slaughter of innocents? What a way to show Palestinians are the ones we should support.

I had been pretty much on the Palestinian side of the conflict for some time.
This attack has absolutely burnt any goodwill I had for the Palestinian cause. If Mexico attacked America in this manner, we would likely own everything south of the Gulf of California.
I cannot fathom what Hamas thought would come of this.
- "Palestine" is not the one that did this. Hamas is a terrorist group, and their actions do not justify the fact that the Israeli government operates an apartheid state where people are given rights, status, and property on the basis of race, and also participates in the slaughter of innocent people.
  This isn't a "whoever's worse should lose" situation. Israel commits human rights violations and Hamas is a terrorist group.
- We shouldn't conflate the people of Isreal with the extremist State of Isreal, we shouldn't conflate the people of Palestine with Hamas. Atrocities have been committed on both sides and each one is an atrocity, but the fact remains that the Palestinian people are living under an apartheid and therefore should be supported despite acts committed by extremists in it's name. This situation shouldn't be reduced to a simplistic one-sided team sport. Palestine still needs liberating.
- Hamas isn't a rational actor fighting for a free Palestine; their one and only goal - literally written into their charter - is to eradicate every Jew from the land by force.
  Every Jew they kill is a victory for them; there's nothing more to it.
- The us doesn't hold Mexico or Mexicans in an open air concentration camp we regularly demolish buildings in with war munitions for simple allegation with no due process.
  I'm going to bet it's going to come out that this is essentially Iran and other countries sending mercs to act as Hamas just as the last major offensive was.
- Dont forget the paraded naked woman that was spit on by people. Hamas are savages who are funded by Iran
- Had it been attacks on only military targets, that’d be one thing. I understand that this has been a long, drawn-out conflict and Israel has killed a large number of civilians themselves and have, meter-by-meter, been taking more land away from the Palestinians (essentially committing slow-motion genocide). I get that, Israel the country isn’t innocent, BUT civilians should never be considered legitimate targets by either side in the conflict. Hamas isn’t helping their cause any with these attacks.
- This was an Iranian funded terrorist group, not a Palestinian liberation group. They claim to help the latter, but this attack makes it obvious they don't give a shit about Palestinians, they just sent to hurt Israelis. Everyone is better off if the group can be destroyed.
- I'm starting to wonder if that is the point. Groups like Hamas thrive on anger and conflict.
- I'm both glad and sorry that this is what made you understand, hamas was like that ever since u remember myself, Israel never start those clashes. They always shoot hiding behind kindergartens, women and elderly people while the shoot thousands of missiles.
  The only difference between previous ones to this one is that the caught us off guard
- so 0.05% of the population can make you change your political view about 2 millions people(plus people in west bank because fuck em right?)
  then you never supported a free palestine
- You support Palestine while they do nothing and go like sheep to the slaughter. Once they fight back to avoid their own anhilation you no longer support them. In the end, you support genocide.
- This is who they have always been. In over half a century of conflict they have only ever chosen terrorism. Never once have they tried to achieve their goals through passive resistance, despite the historical lessons of Gandhi and Martin Luther King, Jr, that this is the only strategy that works against overwhelming military force.
  And the reason they haven't tried it is because peaceful coexistance is not their goal. They want Israel destroyed, and have shown the world for the better part of a century that they will settle for literally nothing less.
Hamas isn't Palestine.
- Palestine could sure help get rid of them if they wanted to.
- Remind me how many Palestinians support Hamas and its ideology. You cannot make this comparison. Nothing Israel ever did comes near these levels of brutality.
- !Sure
- The people slaughtered at the music festival were foreign nationals. They had nothing to do with this conflict.
It's always those pesky Palestinians doing the slaughtering! For 75 years!
That's how they've been taking more and more land from Israel and they even build a gigantic illegal wall to box those poor Israelis in and stop them being able to leave freely! And with their military backing and funding from giant powerhouses in the west, those poor Israelis don't stand a chance, it's about time they fought back and stood up for themselves! They should defend their homes just like Ukraine!
Wait...
- This is a chart that shows one thing only: Israel has the stronger military.
  It doesn't say a thing about who attempted to kill more civilians, and who took steps to avoid civilian deaths. It doesn't say anything about who has made concessions for peace, and who has walked away from peace deals for almost a century.
  If you think this chart shows that Israel is the bad guy, you would absolutely shit yourself if you saw a similar chart comparing the US and Nazi Germany.
- Yes, all revolutions in the history of the world are famous for rising against evil teenagers who were oppressing them.
- And exactly how does your argument justify these atrocities? This is whataboutism pur sang. Don't get me wrong, the atrocities Israel has carried out are equally appalling, but that doesn't justify what happened at that festival. This will likely only weaken the support the Palestinians have in the west.
- Let's see a chart of the number of attempted murders of civilians from each side. That'll paint a pretty different picture.
  Tell me, because we both know that the Israeli casualty number is only low because Israel is good at protecting its citizens and not because Hamas isn't trying to kill as many Israelis as it can, do you really think the situation would be better if Hamas was more successful at killing Israelis?
- Keep those downvotes coming, Zionists. No matter how much you sweaty virtue signalers try to ‘own’ people on the internet, it doesn’t change the fact that Israel caged an animal, tortured it, and are now trying to put it down because it bit back.
  You and I both know that equating the entire population of Palestine to an Iraq/Qatar-funded extremist group is entirely wrong, but whatever justifies the wholesale slaughter of thousands over the years I guess. Stop pretending to care about Israeli citizens so you can feel good about watching Palestinians die.

"I used to have support for the Native Americans, but then a tribe massacred an outpost on the land that was slowly being carved from them by colonizers. Now I've lost all goodwill for their struggle"

The indigenous, oppressed peoples proceed to get wiped out and the colonizing states take over the entire land mass

This type of violence does not need to celebrated. It should be mourned as tragic. Its perpetrators condemned.

But so many are applying fairness or rules to a conflict that has neither.

If you create the conditions for war and terrorism, do not be surprised when war and terrorism come.

You can still condemn the terrorists -- 99% of the people in those conditions have chosen not to go on a murderous rampage of civilians.
I agree though, by and large. Hamas is the problem here, not Palestinians, and Hamas should be condemned by everybody. Its hard to say that they're trying to help Palestinians when they do attacks like this, knowing full well they are associated with Palestine. The attack has certainly changed my perspective about them operating out of civilian buildings. They're using Palestinians as living hostages.
It would be in everybody's best interest for a global coalition to root them out and Israel to get a non apartheid government. But we all know none of that is going to happen.
- actually there was ~1000 attacckers coming from gaza thats 0.05% of the population
- The problem as others stated above, is that Palestinian and Hamas are often interchangeable. Just like Russian and anti-LGBTQ.
  When the majority of your people support the regime, you can't reasonably claim your well meaning minority is actually how it is. It's not.
  America had its same epiphany when they realized the vast majority of Republicans aren't just some fooled centrist hanging with the wrong people. They're fascist shit stains too, they're just quiet or polite about it lol.
  https://apnews.com/article/hamas-middle-east-science-32095d8e1323fc1cad819c34da08fd87
There's a difference between attacking unarmed civilians at a music festival and war. The terrorists should always be condemned, and you're painting with far too broad of a brush here.
There's a difference between freedom fighters and murderers.
- I agree with your main point. The actions of the Hamas are abhorrent. But many here are equating it with the will of all Palestinians and that's simply not true.
  I don't understand how these acts, which clearly will not help Palestinians, can be seen as the something they all would want.
- There’s a difference between attacking unarmed civilians
  I hope you're one of the first to condemn Israel when they kill at least 10x as many Palestinian civilians in retaliation for this.
  You know, in addition to how many more Palestinians civilians they've already killed.
If you create the conditions for war and terrorism, do not be surprised when war and terrorism come.d
What do you think raping and massacring people at a music festival is going to do?
That clearly isn't "fighting back". It's not war, its not even terrorism. They aren't achieving any sort of win, or working towards independence.
This is honestly a disgusting comment.
- What do you think raping and massacring people at a music festival is going to do?
  Nothing, just cause more suffering. But this isn't a bad guy vs good guy argument. The point that's being made is that extremism tends to be a product of its environment.
  Please note that this is not an anti-Israel line of arguing.
  Conditions in Gaza are terrible and many people have lost loved ones during their lives there. It creates an environment where extremism can flourish. It's not a certainty, but the probability is just much higher in environments that are severely deprived.
  The actions of Hamas are inexcusable, and Israel will surely want to bring them to justice. But after that it's time to acknowledge that if conditions in Gaza are kept as poor as they are, the chances of this type of violence happening again are almost guaranteed. It's also in the interest of Israel to allow and facilitate improved conditions in Gaza.
- There's a large population oppressed. A large part of that population suffers in silence, a small part of that population suffers and raises protest, a smaller part of that population becomes politically savvy travels the world and raises awareness at the geopolitical stage, a smaller part of that population is so angry they just lash out and do whatever damage they can to their oppressors.
  This pattern is ingrained in the human condition. We've seen it countless times. In many struggles. If we condemn an entire population by the acts of a few, we turn the entire population into the most violent actors.
  So the question shouldn't be do you support Hamas or do you support the Israeli state, that's a false dichotomy. The question should be what options are we giving the Palestinian people that are better than supporting Hamas?
If you create the conditions for war and terrorism, do not be surprised when war and terrorism come.
This is exactly why they're so surprised. They thought that Palestinians should just roll over and take it up the ass, like god intended, the natural order of things.
There's only an issue when the oppressed fight back.
- They should have fought Hamas first before committing collective suicide by supporting them.
well put.
oppress a population until they fight back and then yell terrorism
Ok, but there is literally a post on the front page of .ml saying you are not allowed to even use the word "condemn"
When do you start the timeline though? The Palestine / Israel conflict has been going for 100 years right? Are you comfy saying Israel is the original aggressor?
Full disclosure: I dislike all fundamentalist religious societies. I don't believe in holy land, and I think people on both sides are reaping what they've sown by insisting they are gods chosen people. So I'm not defending Israel, but I'm not defending Palestine (and especially Hamas) either.
- Obviously Israel is the original aggressor
This type of violence does not need to celebrated. It should be mourned as tragic. Its perpetrators condemned.
So... then how about you simply condemn the perpetrators instead of making excuses for them and blaming the victims.
People that have been conditioned to hate Israel really can't help themselves can they? You must know how terrible it looks that you're trying to hamasplain this shit, but you literally can't stop yourself from doing it can you?
- The world isn't so black and white.
  Hamas doing unspeakable things doesn't make Israel the good guys in this conflict.
- So… then how about you simply condemn the perpetrators instead of making excuses for them and blaming the victims.
  this is like me making a hole in my roof and then blaming the rain
That's a lot of words for refusing to just agree that murdering and raping civilians at a concert is indeed bad, even when the oh so oppressed Hamas raider thugs do it.
They aren't the oppressed indigenous folks, they're the corrupt rez bosses that suction off all the jobs and projects to benefit their clique, brutally disappear anyone who speaks out against them or even just says something they decide they don't like, and then claim any outside judgement is targeted harassment.
No, a terrorist pillaging, mass raping and murdering of civlians is not "if you create the conditions for war and terrorism..." despite the whinging of Hamasaboos insisting otherwise these monsters actively chose to murder civlians, actively chose to rape civilians, and kept actively choosing to do it when at no point was there any juncture where choosing to do so could be in any way construed as justified or necessary.
People trying to claim this is retaliatory violence make me fucking sick to my stomach as a Palestinian American. You fucking Bougeyevik fetishizers try to sweep this under some victim blaming rug as if us le oppressed global southis are unjustly oppressed when held to the lofty standards of "don't rape and murder civilians."
I don't want excuses for their behaviour, I don't want westsplainers telling me that it's fine and dandy for my kin to commit such heinous and vile acts. I don't want le revolutionaries leading global liberation from their $3,500 gaming rig bought by their upper middle class mittelpolitik parents to fetishize my people's struggle to the point where any sin committed painted in that struggle's colors is to be defended and qualified and whataboutismed like a vital supply route that will end the struggle overnight if the mere point is conceded that yes, Hamas raping and Murdering civilians is indeed bad and without excuse, justification, or proportionately causal context.
I want these thugs rounded up and put to Nuremberg Part II, I want Israel to drop the colonialist pretenses and join with the PLO to found a new democratic state with strict human rights protections, and I want any supremacist or separatist who'd challenge that necessity for any hope of a lasting peace to be dragged to the sea they wanted to push the other side into, and forced to go in and never come out again.
Because everyone who lives there has a fucking right to keep living there, because freedom of movement is a human right, and the land doesn't belong to anyone, and acting like it can belong to someone is literally the batshit insane nonsense that got us here to begin with!
dammī falasTēnī, 'annā beitla7mī, wa'anna sayim kitīr la'enton!
- I don’t want excuses for their behaviour, I don’t want westsplainers telling me that it’s fine and dandy for my kin to commit such heinous and vile acts
  nobody said that XD
  people just understand why this happened and only a fool would be surprised that an oppressed population will react wildly eventually.
indigenous, oppressed peoples
Uh... you're gonna have to clarify which side you mean here.
While it's pretty clear Native Americans were in America first- not so much with the current belligerents.
- Both Arabs and Proto-Jews originate from the area now called Isreal.
- Palestine was already a country in 1947. Not so much for Israel.

Hamas just shot every Palestinian in the dick.

~~Hamas~~ ... ~~Iran~~ ... Russia just shot every Palestinian in the dick.
It is really convenient for Russia that this is now happening. Hamas is not gaining anything from this attack. They knew they would not hold the land and it would be just a chaos attack and that Israel will retaliate with full force. So why did they do it? Is maybe they are backed by Iran and Iran decided now would be a good time to use their useful idiots to attack? But what would Iran gain from it? Is it maybe Iran is buddy buddy with Putin and he could use the distraction and would be able to pit opinions in the west against each other and would continue his plan to divide the west?
The Hamas are just useful idiots. There was no plan. It was instigated by some other group that couldn't care less who is going do die in the end on either side, as it is not their countryman. It was either a good time for iran to instigate this for free or they were smart enough to get concessions from Russia to play out this act that really played into Russian cards.
Russia loves destabilizing this region. They support the Syrian regime and use the crisis of Syrian refugee to invite them for a university-opportunity to Moscovia to then put them in busses and send them through Belarus to the polish border. The images that they produce that was on the "Imigrant crisis overwhelming europe" is then played back to the right wing parties in Europe who are - suprise - mostly pro russian. Russia is actively destabilizing regions and holding them in disarray and encouraging further conflicts to create refugee crisis as close to Europe as possible. The profit immensly from destabilizing those regions and the public discourse that entails of that in the west.
- I think Russia is a scourge on humanity and the geopolitical entity (not the people) should be destroyed by covert means, but your take is nothing more than conjecture.
- Yeah, you are probably right, this pushes the news away from Ukraine, and of course Hamas is more than happy to help. Not defending Israel either, the whole region is a mess, but Russia meddling is really not helpful.
And they're happy to do it. What's the point of Hamas if neither Israelis nor Palestinians are dying? Both at the same time is their ideal environment.
- Exactly, it’s why the Israeli military funded them through the 80s and 90s. If the moderates won then they wouldn’t give them excuses to glass hospitals and gun down children.
The most accurate take in this thread 👆
How many times are you people going to repeat the same thing?
- I mean, you could just ignore it.

Turns out hitting the music festival was a terrible idea, because it absolutely turned everyone against them.

except half the morons around here who thought this was justified
- inclkuding, apparently, the lemmy development team...a surprising development if you ask me.
The video that the NYT put out today of armed terrorists in technicals mowing down civilians from the road took years off my life. They rolled into Sderot and just shot anything that moved, which was mostly civilians along with firefighters and police.
Unfortunately, they also managed to kill a decent number of German, Thai, American, French, and other foreign nationals. Ironically, they also executed Israelis living in communes who were pressing for peace for Palestinians after the horrors of the 2014 war.
Not me
- Waaa waaa waaa ~~palestine~~ terrorist supporter
Palestinians using violent means might think they're succeeding because they are actually getting landback for the first time in decades, but they fail to consider how bad it looks to me, a guy on the internet who thinks it would be better for their PR if they kept dying instead.
- they are actually getting landback for the first time in decades
  How does massacring hundreds at a music festival get them land back? How does parading a nude, murdered woman get them land back?
I dunno EDM sucks.
As does confining millions to an open air prison
As does Israel creating Hamas
As does the current Israeli government ignoring intelligence reports because they wanted this to happen.
Speak for yourself.
Rational people recognize what a vapid facade 'music festivals for peace' are.
The 'peace' was just an excuse so rich people don't feel bad about partying.
- Such an enlightening argument.
  I guess then it was an excellent idea to shoot up a music festival.
  /s
- Your post speaks volumes. Imagine justifying slaughter by maligning innocent people.
- Damn I agree they deserved to die for it and their families deserve to suffer

Ugh, fuck Hamas and everyone that supports them.

go to Hamas and tell them this directly, if you're so brave
otherwise, there's no use of your comment
- I sit here, waiting for the order to get underway, for the EAM to set 1SQ so I can finally fucking launch some warheads on foreheads. Is that enough for you, or did you want me to 1306 to infantry?

So completely overlooking the overlying political situation and just thinking about this incident - it's fuckin horrible.

I've been at a whole lot of techno parties back in the day and just imagining these events triggers a real wince in my soul. Remember being off your head at a really good party with your mates and your partner and then imagine this shit happening. I mean, a fuckin rave is pretty much the opposite of a military target.

I'm thinking there's a lot of criticisms to make on both sides of this conflict and a lot of comments here are focusing on that and overlooking the fucking horror of this incident right here.

I lived in Paris when they attacked the Bataclan and several other places. We almost went to a restaurant that got shot up but decided on another one at the last minute. When the owner heard about the attacks he made us leave, which infuriated my GF who was scared out of her mind, but I figured the assholes were long gone and police were everywhere by that time so I reassured her and we calmly walked back home.
But when I got home and heard about the Bataclan attack, I broke down like a fucking baby. I love live music, it's like a major reason to live for me, and imagining these people having a blast, unwinding after a stressful week, and then the absolute horror that broke loose was too much for me.
Yeah lot of these people were probably just coming down in the early morning. Surreal and horrifying to imagine being there.
- The A in PLUR stands for Apartheid

You know I read these threads and they remind me so much of Reddit. And now I don't know if reddit really got shittier or if the shittiness was always there it was just ignorable. These comments are definitely reddit tier and that's sad for the fediverse.

People need to realize reddit and social media is shitty because people are inherently shitty. The people on lemmy are no different.
These comments are definitely reddit tier and that’s sad for the fediverse.
People don't change just because technology is different.
Yeah, that's crazy - I wonder if there is some commonality we aren't considering here?
- It's almost as if people use the internet to share their opinions.
Just guessing, but that shouldn't be surprising. I'd imagine the most opinionated people are the ones who took offense to Reddits changes and bailed out for those reasons. And now those opinionated people saturate the comments.
Not every case of course. Like RIF died for me, and I just decided I wasn't really enjoying Reddit and should try somewhere else. That's probably a decent chunk of people here as well. I feel like those have a higher probability of just reading and not commenting though
- I'm here for the same reason. RiF was reddit to me.
What's that mean? Toxic comments or bad takes?
- Yes.
Worldnews was always really bad on reddit, I was also surprised to see that true for lemmy too. Lots of different world views and biases I guess.
- I don't mind different views, I mind deeply stupid and uniformed opinions stated as fact.
I'm using Boost for both Reddit and Lemmy, and as a quick glance on my phone they look identical. To be honest if I was to open a random thread and look at the comments I wouldn't be able to tell where I am.
I'm not sure what you guys mean when you say that Lemmy feels different. If feels smaller but the same, in the good and bad.
I think the Internet got shittier, and it's just inescapable.
- or maybe western society as a whole got shittier and people are dumber

There's a lot of commenting from westerners about this, but it's not going to matter. Israel is going to wipe out Hamas. Hopefully the regular Palestinians survive with out much damage. And in the future they have a better life.

But it is very clear the people of Israel are very united in what they're need to do and how to do it.

Israel is going to wipe out Hamas.
Honest question: to Israelis that want to see this, what does this mean? forcing the Palestinians out completely to Jordan and Lebanon?
don't get me wrong, it'd be awesome if you could just magically zap the terrorists, but that's not reality. so what's the end game with this kind of rhetoric?
- I just want to be clear, I'm stating my opinion, no one else's, it might be the consensus in Israel, it might be not. I've always been against a lot of my country and military actions, especially against Palestinians, never saw them as enemies, even as a soldier I spoke out if something seemed wrong to me, even in operation protective edge I've been told that I shouldn't live here if I care so much about the Palestinian, this was told to me by a soldier that I was carrying food and water for, what I'm saying is that I'm not some right wing hateful nut job when I say: I don't give a shut anymore, I don't give a shit where the gazan will go, I don't give a shit if they don't have food, I don't give a shit about any of this, In 24 hours, three friends have lost half of their families, two friends have been held hostages, one friend kidnapped to Gaza, presumably dead. As much as a pacifist I tried to be my whole life, right now I want nothing but the sea to be painted red by the blood of the people who did this and supported it, and quite honestly, when this is all over, I want our elected officials to be rounded up, faced against the wall and be shot.
- Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Hamas the political body that is in control of the Gaza strip?
  They sent a military force to go kill civilians. I don't know how much of Israel's motivation is to take the Gaza strip back and move Palestinian civilians around, but killing that many civilians has definitely put Hamas into "fuck around and find out" territory. At the very least I would expect that Israel will not stop until Hamas is no longer a political entity in Gaza.
- Well hopefully a new government, but who knows
- Nuremberg scenario if we're lucky.
  It turned Germany from antisemitism central into Europe's strongest economy and democracy, at least up until the AfD started trying to weasel the nazi shit back in.
  Problem is this isn't the allies making the call here, it's Israel, who's a lot more interested in just crippling Gaza industrially and militarily to the point that rocket assembly and launching become an impossibility, so either absolutely flattening the place, or permanently occupying the place until Fatah or another faction that's not as batshit insane as Hamas are able to pretend to be in control while basically being a paper government where Israel's "security concerns" clash with Gaza's sovereignty.
So far the Israeli government under Netanyahu has mostly done things to strengthen Hamas, a more radical and violent (but controlled by the vastly stronger Israeli military, or so they thought) group in power in Gaza was deemed beneficial since it prevents the formation of "reasonable", anti-violent advocates for Palestinian liberation. Didn't really work out that well I guess.
- Didn’t really work out that well I guess.
  No it didn't, and the Israelis know it.
Hopefully the regular Palestinians survive with out much damage.
Based on the last 50+ years of history of conflict between these 2, I can't be optimistic that your hopes will come true.
I expect to see reports of wholesale slaughter of Palestinian civilians. You know, normal every day stuff for the IDF.
- Unlike the 40 babies killed in kfar aza. Thats a totally sane thing to do. Did i mention some of them were beheaded?
regular Palestinians
"What regular Palestinians? Those doctors and children were clearly armed militants" - the IDF probably.
- I heard an Israeli coworker claim that the IDF is the worlds most moral army. With blind-belief like that, they are gonna commit some crazy atrocities.
- And for 50 years instead of 5
- I refuse to believe this is a real comment. It is simply not possible
The reports I've read claim that around 1,000 Hamas terrorist entered Israel. The IDF claims to have recovered the bodies of about 1,500 terrorists inside Israel. Given that this is an active conflict, it's not surprising that the numbers don't line up but they're of the same order of magnitude.
Since Hamas has hostages it's clear that at least some of those terrorists made it back to Gaza. It's also clear that the IDF has, by now, killed the vast majority of the terrorists who carried out these acts.
So who is currently being targeted by IDF ordinance?
- My guess is the operation being carried out is to close the border with Egypt to establish full access control in and out of Gaza. Any other ops being carried out will either be hostage rescue, targeted attempts at black bagging participants and leaders of the attacks, or causing general mayhem to keep Hamas from being able to coordinate with itself for long enough to mount a counteroperation.
  The end goal will be twofold, 1) gain customs control over all points of entry to the strip to neuter Hamas' ability to keep importing rockets and the parts to make their own, 2) sweep the strip for the leaders of the attack for as public and humiliating a comupence as can be legally dropped on them, and probably beyond that too. This attack put a serious black eye on Israel's hawks claiming they're the faction for tighter security that will keep the Israeli people safe, Bibi is probably seeing enough red that it's a sign of officials intervening against his worst reflexes that we're not witnessing a Srebenica scenario in Gaza right now.
- considering gaza is 40% kids under 14..... children.
- Well given that the average age in Palestine is 18 I would guess children
- Hamas
If Israel don't like Hamas they shouldn't have created them
I don't think they want to wipe them out. The government of izrael needs Hamas for their own selfish reasons. Without a proper enemy, a proper "them", such a fascist government like Izrael cannot exist
- I don't think the Israeli voters are going to find that acceptable. One of the good things about democracy.
  But we will see.

This is the best summary I could come up with:

Early on Saturday morning, Hamas targeted Nova music festival, a techno rave in the desert near the border with Gaza.

Videos shared on social media and by Israeli news outlets showed dozens of festival-goers running through an open field as gunshots rang out.

British citizen Jake Marlowe, 26, a carpenter by trade, was employed as a security guard at the Nova music festival just six kilometres east of Gaza, which was in full swing Saturday when Hamas launched the biggest attack on Israel in decades.

He is among dozens of festival attendees who are missing, kidnapped or presumed dead, multiple witnesses and family members told The Independent

Videos from Gaza started appearing online on Saturday, including one showing a young woman Noa Argamani being abducted by Hamas militants as she rode with her boyfriend on a motorcycle.

On Sunday, another video showed the mutilated body of one woman, identified as German tattoo artist Shani Louk by her friends, being paraded around in her underwear around Gaza.

The original article contains 473 words, the summary contains 166 words. Saved 65%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

Absolutely horrfying. This whole thing is just so dapressing.

Meanwhile, lemmy.ml mods are worried about banning people for pointing out that US revolutionaries didn't indiscriminately murder families. This is the fediverse's mask off moment.

How does one bad instance that has been full of tankies for quite sometime make this the “fediverse mask off moment”???
- If you browse all from a federated instance, you will see plenty of lemmy.ml threads filled with all manner of disgusting appetite for cruelty, because the mods are banning any and all pushback. Whether or not you choose to acknowledge it, this will be (and to a large extent already is) associated with the fediverse sooner or later, considering it is the "main" dev instance, and one of the largest communities. This has just been a particularly egregious example of - again - the main, high profile dev instance, pretty openly tolerating horrific things while removing even the most mild, reasonable dissent.
  If you don't believe me, just browse the mod log for the past few hours.
- And yet, they and instances like Hexbear are still federated on certain instances.
I posted a comment about how the kids are getting the worst of it all and got deleted.

A quick scroll of the comments doesn't provide the answer as to why they thought this music festival was a good idea, especially considering that it's located at the border near Gaza. Furthermore, how did Israel not see this coming and take extra security measures to protect them?

Don't worry their next festival is gonna be in the DMZ between North and South Korea, should be a real banger.
I mean, they provided a tank and guns for security.

Netanyahu is entering the "find out" part of his plan of "fuck around and find out." Maybe having a music festival minutes away from a genocide wasn't the best idea?

Maybe the festival-goers were taught their whole lives that Palestinians were peaceful and just wanted their freedom? Maybe they didn't know that Palestinians almost entirely support terrorism to eradicate all Jews? Perhaps we should use this as a good opportunity to educate the whole world: Palestine doesn't want peace. They won't stop until every Jewish person is dead. It is time we stop sending support to Palestine, and treat them like the bloodthirsty terrorists they are.
- Decolonization comes with horrific violence. Don't like it, don't colonize 🤣

Stuff like this is why I am glad I live in a free capitalist society that lets me choose what I want to buy. I shop around for my concert tickets for example, and do not go to concerts in warzones or outside of concentration camps.

i think the most intelligent posture about all of this is to take both the palestinians and the israelis as ultra-nationalist, bloodthirsty beasts and do not take side for any of them

We shouldn't be discounting entire peoples like that. Nobody is born a nationalist. Every citizen in both countries deserves to live a life free of terror or strife, and instead they were manipulated against each other by a small number of evil people.
Nationalism is a poison and we should be seeking to cure the afflicted, both for their own sake and the sake of all of us.
I don't condone the violence of Israel as a state. Hamas clearly consists of individual actors behaving like isis terrorists, therefore I don't agree. Also this gives me major Bataclan, Paris flashbacks.
- like, idk, i would pick side for palestine before, but after this all my goodwill for the palestinian cause is gone, but i also would not pick side for the israelis because they dont have any reagrd for the lives of the palestinians, i only hope that this will end up soon and that no nuclear weapons will be used
the most intelligent posture is surely to take the side of the oppressed and the innocent which obviously will include a great deal of both Palestinian and Israeli human beings.

I wonder how partying at a music festival was supposed to help the Palestinians.

Seems like it was just an excuse to make rich people feel good about themselves while having a good time.

It's a grassroots festival, it's not some richman party like burning man.
Keep talking out of your ass though.
- So it was free? No $3 bottles of water? Lol, you must be pretty ignorant to the world around you.
  And people didn't travel from Germany to go there?
  I'd feel more sympathetic for them if they spent that money helping Palestinians instead of using them as an excuse to party.
  Keep defending rich people feeling good about themselves by doing nothing of value. You seem like the kind of guy who doesn't understand people only have excessive wealth for events like this because others live in squalor.
Rich people don't deserve to be executed, raped, slaughtered, and kidnaped.
BTW: 20% of Israelis are living below the poverty threshold. Israel is the most expensive country in the OECD.
Seriously, do you think before you talk?
I'm so confused. it was a dance music festival with civilians. are they not allowed to have those? I fully support liberating Palestine. I also think Israelis should be able to have music festivals where people feel good about themselves while having a good time. what's wrong with that?
- You are aware Israel is an apartheid state?