2y ago

A Lab Test That Experts Liken to a Witch Trial Is Helping Send Women to Prison for Murder

www.propublica.org

News @lemmy.world

gAlienLifeform @lemmy.world

2y ago

A Lab Test That Experts Liken to a Witch Trial Is Helping Send Women to Prison for Murder in Multiple U.S. States

www.propublica.org /article/is-lung-float-test-reliable-stillbirth-medical-examiners-murder

Politics @beehaw.org

tintory @lemm.ee

2y ago

A Lab Test That Experts Liken to a Witch Trial Is Helping Send Women to Prison for Murder

www.propublica.org /article/is-lung-float-test-reliable-stillbirth-medical-examiners-murder

52 comments

Why are we trying so hard to go backwards to the 1700s?
- We're actually trying to go back to the Roman Empire, a Fourth Reich, if you will.
  
  Yeah, it's kind of scary how close they are too succeeding. When one half of the electoral process gives up on democracy, and starts trying to take power by Amy means, it's hard to fight back against that.
  
  They call it “Red Caesarism”
  
  Roman Empire was pro choice
  You are thinking of Medieval Europe
  
  Roman Empire was multicultural with emperors from Spain, North Africa, the Balkan’s, Syria, and others. The modern Roman obsession is all about the optics that fascists have wrapped it up in, not actual history. They were even surprisingly religiously tolerant.
  They’re not actually trying to go back to that, they only want the worst traits of the empire.
- Men who are terrified of the loss in power. They can't stand the idea that they could ever be held accountable.
  
  I believe that's also a reason for the rise of racism we see today
  People subconsciously know that their wealth (even if it's not much it's still better than that of people born in most parts of Africa or Asia) is mostly built on exploiting those people historically
  Then either you have to give up some of that power and wealth if you accept that they are just as human as you or just have to draw a line and look down on them
  
  This is not because of sexism?
- It seems just the American religious right are doing that. There just seems to be many more of them than I first imagined.
  
  I think they're just really loud. Most people aren't like that. But since the republican party can't seem to win elections fairly anymore, they've decided to throw the rules out and go for fascism.
- There is a lot of non-religious evil?
- Hmm, what was very powerful in the 1700s, that lost so much power nowadays...
- beacause god!
Most "forensic science" is bullshit.
So many innocent people have been imprisoned because of shit like blood splatter analysis and voice print analysis. Even DNA can be unreliable. And the idea that no two fingerprints are alike is a myth.
- Are you exaggerating with the DNA comment? Or are you saying that it only proves someone's presence and not their actual actions?
  
  https://daily.jstor.org/forensic-dna-evidence-can-lead-wrongful-convictions/
Well this was a disgusting read. What a stupid test to determine the fate of a devastated mother.
This test would be fine if we didn't have an adversarial system for expert witnesses. A jury can be made to understand that this test can produce false positives and should not be considered definitive evidence that precludes a reasonable doubt because it is reasonable that a stillborn baby's lungs can randomly get air in them from mechanisms other than breathing. It could still be useful for weighing the other evidence in the case.
The problem comes from the fact that the defense has to hire a competing expert to explain that everything the med examiner did was bunk and the jury has to decide what expert to trust, not what the value of the information is. That's not something a jury is particularly good at doing. Beyond that, who you hire ends up costing the defense money and can be a problem for indigent defendants.
I'll give you an example from the rape/murder charge that I was on a jury for that we put a guy away for life. A test was used to determine the time between ejaculation and murder as the defendant's argument was that he had sex with but did not murder the victim. A prostatic acid phosphatase test was used to determine that the semen was deposited shortly before the murder. That is also a test that isn't well studied, particularly in my case that involved a decomposing body.
His DNA and that test alone were not enough for me to reach beyond a reasonable doubt. The timeline of her disappearance, the fact that she was found near his camp, and the fact that the ligature used to kill her was from his camp was. The test just added to a growing list, where it was no longer reasonable to have a doubt.
- I have a background somewhat in the area of testing. No way I'd just take a test at face value. As a juror, are you able to get any clarity on stuff like that if you want?
  
  Yeah, the inclusion of this test in any kind of deliberation would just muddy the waters. I don't see how that serves any goal of justice.
  
  No, jurors are not allowed to ask questions. Like I said, it wasn't the lynchpin in the case(deliberations were decidedly short). It was useful to add to a much more extensive list (even more extensive than I included). That's why I don't particularly like the expert witness system the US has, like I said.
  Edit: and to clarify the reasoning for the test, the defendant said he had sex with the victim several days before. The background of the test was to show there was no biological breakdown to suggest that. My memory isn't perfect on it since it was several years ago.
  Here's a link to the case that gives a good overview, but realize that it doesn't have ALL the evidence we reviewed. https://www.fredericknewspost.com/news/crimeandjustice/courts/man-convicted-in-1996-rape-and-murder-of-frederick-girl/articlea71161c5-f52a-5d1c-844d-0e88e3f9cae8.html
thats very stupid. innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt
What the fuck? What/where are we living?
- ✨Patriarchy✨
  
  ⛪Early stage theocracy⛪

52 comments