'Deep sense of outrage and betrayal': House Democrats react to Schumer announcement that he will vote for Republican spending plan
To go stand on his soap box and talk a big game a couple days ago, and then pull this bullshit is just a slap in the face. This screams collusion or bribery or some other shady shit. It used to be a conspiracy theory to say this, but, there ain't two parties. Its one party and a few outliers that aren't invited to the party.
if the cr passes then the administration will have a substantial slush fund from the departments and agencies that have been scuttled with which to do whatever they want with. a shutdown is really bad but the other options are worse. this is harm reduction
Silly goose, only progressives have to vote for harm reduction. Liberals can just go along with it.
As a non US person, it is deeply sad to read this two party crap even at this advanced stage of the collapse of your country. When are you lot going to learn that you already don’t have an impartial head of state, you don’t have impartial supreme court. Everything is political in USA. So you really fcking want to make sure you have more than 3 parties. You’re still not thinking outside the box, and you’re keeping this us them dynamic alive.
With the weaponisation of the DOJ, the dems have Kompromat on them too. They are all scared. They are all walking the same line. That’s why Bernie is so powerful, and people are doubting if AOC is up for the job.
The GOP is infected by Trump and anything from the McCain era is long gone. The DEMs have failed to lead since Obama. There are no two parties left. There is a carcass of an old political establishment leftover, and the only guy saying anything that makes sense is a geriatric that can drop dead any day.
Two parties will always get you to this kind of impasse. Truly saddening to see the lack of creative political thinking on a progressive platform like Lemmy.
What exactly do you expect us to do besides a violent revolt?
Violent revolt and sign an improved constitution
...what do you mean 'besides'?
Stop voting for politicians who support the 2 party system.
Start supporting policies that do away with "representative" democracy altogether.
Move to direct voting.
Laugh at previous generations for not figuring it out sooner.
Besides? Huh?
In their infinite wisdom our forefathers gave us a winner take all system, and when you only have one winner you get a two party system or minority rule. It’s just maths.
Ranked choice voting would certainly help.
To have a real winner the president needs 270 voices in the electoral college, if a third party won enough States that wouldn't happen, what then?
Same in the Senate and Congress, if neither the Democrats or the Republicans have enough seats to have a majority because of a third party, they'll need to work with that party.
Just because it's not part of the culture it doesn't mean it can't happen and that politicians won't have to deal with it if it does.
Oh yeah, when was the last time your country had a violent popular uprising that deposed a highly militarized government AND managed to build an effective democracy in the aftermath?
"Just do a revolution bro" is the most useless goddamn shit
Username checks out.
So it's a bit of a catch22 situation... Shutdown the government by blocking the new CR or have the government demolished by accepting the new CR ...
But the government will get derailed regardless.
The one thing that seems to be overlooked is that the Democrats are supposed to give opposition/resistance to the Republican plans, which does mean blocking a bad new proposal ...
If it were up to me I'd use whatever media I can find and prior to the vote just loudly announce being against the new regulations, so just pre-empt republican fingerpoiting and take the sting out of their shutdown accusations...
I would rather shut down the government than allow the changes to who controls the money.
If Democrats vote yes on this then the spending power of congress gets handed to Trump/Musk.
If this passes then congress no longer has control of tax dollars
Schumers support of the bill honestly makes no sense. You’re exactly right allowing this to pass gives up all of the congressional spending power. Him saying the shutdown is worse makes absolutely no fucking sense. He’s voting to remove checks and balances. He needs to resign because he’s clearly not fit to hold office with that opinion.
Not to me. Its like a trolley problem where if you do nothing someone dies but if you flip it has the exact same outcome. Seems obvious that its better to not have a hand in it.
Welcome to the fucking club.
I'd love to join the Fucking Club. Do you just meet up at a hotel every month and have an orgy or something?
Rare case where i want to read the article first-hand instead of on archive.is. I want NPR to know this is getting clicks.
These shit ass Democrats couldn't even hold out for 24 hours after announcing "We're going to stand strong!"
That's a pathetic lack of spine and leadership to capitulate that fast.
I don't like Schumer, or anyone in Democratic leadership, honestly, but I want people to think through how a government shutdown would go. A shutdown would almost immediately be felt by many people, as services stop, federal buildings and parks close, and people stop getting paid. These are all things people don't like, and they are also all things the Trump Admin are trying to do, despite being deeply unpopular.
A government shutdown right now because the Democrats blocked a spending bill would be met with wall to wall coverage in the corporate media about the Democrats blocking the bill. The Trump Admin and the right-wing media would then have carte blanche to blame the Democrats for everything bad about the economy that's coming down the pipe due to Trump's disastrous policies. Unemployment? Closed offices? National Parks closed? Checks not coming in? The Democrats did that!
Right now, Trump and the right-wing media don't have a leg to stand on when they try to blame anyone but themselves. A government shutdown right now would give their lies plausibility that currently does not exist, and it would be unlikely to extract any concessions from Republicans on this bill anyway, because many of them want the government to shut down, in some cases permanently.
A shutdown would almost immediately be felt by many people, as services stop, federal buildings and parks close, and people stop getting paid. These are all things people don't like, and they are also all things the Trump Admin are trying to do, despite being deeply unpopular
Yeah, so the average voter is going to blame the Trump administration for what they feel because it's going to feel like a continuation of their previous well publicized efforts
The Trump Admin and the right-wing media would then have carte blanche to blame the Democrats
Democratic lawmakers are not incapable of responding to that bullshit and pointing out how the economy crashing and essential government services being interrupted has been going on for weeks prior to the Republicans failing to keep the government they have total control over open
A government shutdown right now would give their lies plausibility that currently does not exist
No it wouldn't, that's only going to work on people who were looking for a reason to vindicate Republicans anyway and who have never and will never support the Democratic party. The average voter who spends five minutes a week tops following the news is going to say "Government not doing stuff? That sounds like Republicans."
The Democrats should negotiate things they want I. Exchange for their votes. If the reps don't want to play ball then they can pass their own bills. Blaming the Dems now is fucking nonsense and if Americans don't realize that we deserve to rot.
Your description of what would happen already happened. We're past any illusion that the Republican party gives a rat's ass about the nation, constitution, or common decency. Either way is a path through hell, but at least the Democrats could have had moral high ground and an ability to get citizens rally around our last hope for non-violent options. That is shot to hell now.
Unfortunately, I think this may be correct.
You’re right. The GOP wants to blame the democrats for the economy and dismantle the government at the same time.
A government shutdown would let them do both.
That’s probably why the bad actors on lemmy are pushing for a shutdown.
What sort of topsy turvy logic are you going for here? That the best way the Democrats can oppose the Republicans is by giving them exactly what they want and voting to confirm all their nominees and legislation? The Democrats have been close to useless as an opposition party so far, because they can't bring themselves to oppose anything in case it makes them look bad to Trump supporters.
THey’re going to do that anyway, make them grovel for it
And then yell at them in comment sections when the democrats lose to fascists again.
If you don't vote for them... They will lose...
They're not a hockey team where it doesn't matter if you participate as a fan or not. If they don't get votes then they don't get political power.
Who are the facists in this context? Shubert or the guys he’s voting with? Asking as im not based in us
You should have voted blue because this time it would have worked for sure!
What an irrational response that would be. I see this as even more reason to not be ambivalent.
I think you're missing their point. They aren't saying they are going to do that, or that it's a good idea, they're saying enough people are going to react that way for it to be a problem. It's not good enough to be correct, you need to be convincing. Just because I can hold my nose and vote for the lesser evil doesn't mean I'm not concerned that not everyone will.
I agree, but we should all be very well aware that most voters are going to act irrationally and conduct ourselves accordingly. Any logical observer could see that the Dems candidate wasn't as bad as the Repubs in 2016 and 2024, and look at all the good that did us.
PRIMARY ALL OF THEM
Hear hear!
It is stupid to threaten the GOP with a shutdown.
The GOP is already trying to dismantle the government. A shutdown would just help them do it faster.
If this were true GOP lawmakers would be pushing for a shutdown themselves.
I think the most honest answer is nobody knows what would happen after a shutdown with this administration because they've just been making up federal law as they go this whole time anyway, but really the fact that Schumer and Fetterman want this bill to pass while Sanders Warren and AOC want it to fail should be all you need to know to know.
Holding up makes the dismantling a legal affair to be solved in the Courts.
This CR in Sec. 1113 (b) allows the President to begin sequestration, which basically renders all those legal cases moot.
This CR as is is the sole thing Trump needs to avoid any more legal cases related to firing whoever he wants and shutting down whichever department he feels like.
Section 1113 of the CR just basically says that if the President gets rid of someone under sequestration then the budget automatically adjusts to match no need to pass another budget, no need for Congress to get involved.
The Democrats could argue for this to be removed to keep the cases in the Courts, but once this passes with this language, none of those Court cases matter.
Well they'll matter in that the cases will establish that they couldn't be fired back in February but with the new law they can now be fired. So the cases will actually go on but to basically argue over how to pay the employees for those four or so weeks that they weren't legally fired.