Everyone makes incest jokes about Adam and Eve and their children but they never mention that there was another woman named Lilith (Adam's first wife) who would have added variance to the gene pool.
Two things about that (overanalyzing your shower thought):
The only counterpoint i can see is that god is (honestly, at best WAS) infallible.
So god made 2 perfect humans who cannot inbreed as there are no defective genes.
At some point down the line, mutations came in and introduced possible genes that could combine/dominate to produce inbreeding.
If we are accepting the premise of 2 original humans, why not 2 perfect original humans.
If God made eve from adams rib, why not have them be genetically perfect.
But Im sure there is some science i am missing where a huge genome analysis has shown that "perfect" genes have never or could not ever exist.
And, tbh, this might as well be all science fiction based on a bunch of made up stories.
If I remember my hermeneutics, the canon is that essentially, God had "blessed" early descendants of Adam and Eve, allowing their children to thrive.
It wasn't until after the flood I believe that incest becomes more of a theme in the Bible, implying that they shouldn't have children.
But it's been years since I gave this any serious study so I may be remembering incorrectly.
Awesome, I was showing up for the demon angle.
Good response!
Because Lilith isn't mentioned in all versions of the Adam and Eve story, and certainly isn't mentioned in Genesis. There's plenty of versions of the story with lots of different characters, and plenty of interpretations of what happens, but in the Canonical Christian Bible, there are at least two events where the entire human race is only directly described as being one single family - Adam and Eve, and Noah's flood.
The confusion comes from Genesis giving two creation accounts of a woman.
Genesis 1:27 So God created mankind in his own image,in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.
then later...
Genesis 2:22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.
It appears that a man and a woman were created at the same time in Genesis 1:27, then later in Genesis 2:22 a woman was created from a rib
This is probably a result of the Hebrew literary practice of narrating a story once in poetic language and then again in prose. So it's the same man and woman being created, just retold in a different style.
This is the origin of the McRib.
Current scholarly consensus is that the Geneses are actually two different accounts, one likely originating in ancient Israel and the other in ancient Judah. It’s why the two stories are so startlingly different when you read them side by side.
The Bible, and even the Torah, are compilations from stories that existed before these particular books were written down. However, the character of Lilith as "first wife of Adam" is probably not something left out of the Torah, but a much later invention.
You have to remember that which books got to be canon in the Bible were decide at the Council of Nicea
Because Lilith is not actually mentioned in the Christian bible despite this wiki page's attestation she is mentioned in Isaiah. She only appears in rabbitic literature.
Lilith is also the catalyst to a lot of vampire myths often described as the mother of all vampires.
I can't remember where I read this, but I remember reading that the inspiration for vampiric lore was rabies. Fear of water (vampires can't go over running water), fear of the sun, spread by biting...
rabbitic
snort
Never seen the word before. Immediately knew exactly what it meant due to context; but… yeah, funny.
And that's why we celebrate Easter with the Easter Bunny! /s
Lilith left Adam after she refused to become subservient to him and then would not return to the Garden of Eden
Based.
All Hail Lilith, The sacred mother of Feminism ::: spoiler Tone satire :::
She became the first demon. The first example of the Bible literally demonizing women.
Sort of but not really. Lilith isn't in the biblical version of Adam and Eve. There might be one mention of Lilith in and unrelated story in Isaiah, or it might be an old Hebrew word for screech owl.
The connection to Adam comes from folktales and fanfics written 1,000 years later. In terms of biblical tradition, she's closer to Steve than Adam.
The Bible does a fine job of demonizing women, starting with Eve. But Christians don't need a scriptural reason to demonize something they can't control.
That's the reason my wife and I named our daughter Lilith.
She's not taking anyone's shit.
Which might be relevant if those were real people. You might as well worry about the genetic makeup of Pokemon
Are you saying pokemon are not real ?
Not at all! . Pikachu assures me that he exists.
I love how some scholars say Lilith didn't exist... None of them did!
Incest doesn't inherently cause genetic disorders, it just increases your chance of being born with recessive genetic disorders. Most of those disorders are mutations, and if the Garden of Eden is so perfect there probably aren't genetic disorders to start out with, meaning incest is fine from a genetic perspective. All the genetic disorders would be mutations later down the line. Maybe they're punishment for the original sin or something, to fit it into the themes of the story.
That's a fantastic retroactive nonsensical explanation for Adam and Eve. Bravo.
Nah genetic disorders aren't mutations, they're incorrect copies of original traits. I'm not a geneticist so don't quote me on this, but the reason incest causes problems has nothing to do with mutations as they rarely happen and everything to do with not having enough variation in your own genetics to cover when there's "data loss". Again, I'm not a scientist.
Sounds like a shitty retcon from an series that jumped the shark
Literally what the Talmud is after Jesus showed up who basically perfectly matched their messiah, but they rejected Him because he didn't come with an army to bring them greatness lmao
I don't think creationism is particularly bothered by genetics.
Apparently telomeres used to be so long they wrapped around your ankles and you lived to be 600.
Anyone feel like this is just the story of some douche who divorced his awesome wife to find a subservient slave wife and over thousands of years its become part of a religion?
“Oh that Lilith we don't talk about her she was a demon” he tells his grandson and 200 years after the story people interpret her as a literal demon, and just gets wackier and wackier as time goes on. Kinda feel like you could explain all that Abrahamic lore that way.
I’m just saying, homie made the wrong choice.
Let her do all the work.🤣
Adam passed up a creampie loving dick riding demon. They were sterile and she didn't have monthlies. Lilith wouldn't have had him eat the apple, she would have had him on pineapple and water until the sky fell as fire and it rained as ashes.
Lilith fucks back, Eve wanted to do it through a sheet. Adam was a damned fool.
And they were bums living in some other guy's garden until they got caught.
Can't have an ancient story without an evil woman you can blame everything on.
Fucking your half-sibling is still incest.
Yes, but Cain and/or Abel could have sex with Lilith and that offspring would not be the result of inbreeding.
Also, Eve could have sex with the offspring of Adam and Lilith and that would not be inbreeding.
After that everything else is unless there are more people.
Literally nobody else, you would.
Couldn't God just create more humans after the first three? Is it certain that he creates 3 and then explicitly stops?
He apparently did. Cain was sent east of Eden to the Land of Nod where he found a wife.
So, what a lot of people don't realize is a large percentage of the Bible is just lineages.
how many ribs do you think adam has?
Also Adam lived quite a long life. Like several human lifetimes
Then there is this fun titbit.
Adam withdrew from Eve for 130 years after their expulsion from Eden, and in this time both he and Eve had sex with demons, until at length they reunited and Eve gave birth to Seth
What scripture is that?
It might be a creative interpretation of Genesis 5:3, which I just read as Seth being born when Adam was 130 years old.
Perhaps if they didn't age in Eden, the concept of "living X years" wouldn't apply, so "when Adam had lived 130 years" could be interpreted to mean after they'd been booted out. But they hadn't had Cain and Abel before the Fall, so I don't really see how that interpretation could work, unless it's being merged with other narratives.
Thing is, Lilith didn't pop up in texts apart from post-Jesus, such as talmudic texts. (although a Lilith was mentioned in Isaiah, it could have been a demon of some sort) so she'd only really be regarded by modern day Judaism, not by Christians.
If you're grasping at cousins as being the sole separator you know you have a problem. But also there's a lot of conflicting information, such as Cain settling in the city of Nod east of Eden which suggests I guess that there were people outside of Eden already. Don't take anything too literally, and jokes are jokes.
And God got mad at Lilith for not being obedient and banished her so perhaps there were a series of Liliths. I think Eve was taken from the rib because that was supposed to make her less independently minded than creating her from the dust like Lilith.
Actually, the rib part is a bit of a mistranslation: https://youtu.be/FN4pVp6lNJ0
Why would Lilith not be a sibling of Adam if Eve is?
Lilith was made from the dust of the Earth like Adam. The story is that this is the reason why she was independent minded and as a result God made a new woman from the rib of man so that woman would be "from man" and more likely to be obedient to God and man. Not stating my opinion - that's just what I read.
Eve was made from Adam's rib, so presuming that humans work like bananas, eve is Adam's clone, not sibling.
Eve was made from Adam's rib, so presuming that humans work like apples, eve is Adam's clone, not sibling.
Presumably because she wouldn't have been made from his rib like Eve. But OP conveniently ignores the fact that Lilith is way too badass to have been a part of most mainline flavors of Judaism and Christianity. So she isn't mentioned because most religious people don't accept her as a part of their canon. They should. It's a great story.
It's estimated that it would take about 160 people to perpetuate the species.
I also hear she's a super sexy top.
God the book of Genesis is so fucking dumb, I can't believe people base their entire worldview around it. Like there's people who adhere to all forms of ridiculous Christian morality, some less so, some more so, but ON TOP OF THAT also believing that fuckin Abraham wasn't in active psychosis and was a reliable source, or that Jesus is the actual son of God, what the fuck....
The dumbest part of religion is the answers. The absolute coolest part is "YOU KNOW NOTHING OF THE ABSOLUTE, BOW DOWN IN IGNORANCE MORTAL" like hell yea i can get down with being a dumbass more than listening to someone who doesn't know he's a dumbass
or that Jesus is the actual son of God
I mean... He kind of claimed to be the Son of God, did miracles, and then proceeded to die and rise again from the death
I don't. There are far more interesting fictional character to talk about.
I mean, in the KJV at least there's adam and eve, then cain and abel. then just cain, and then the book just says "Cain went to the land of Nod, east of Eden. And Cain knew his wife." So there were definitely other people around and canonically we're not inbred, it's just that we all have a common inheritance from Cain, and therefore Eve, and therefore we all inherited original sin.
It makes a lot more sense when you remember that YHWH was originally a bronze age thunder and warrior god who was not the one and only god like it says in christian canon. He was a god amongst many gods, and only ever asserted himself as the one and only god of the tribes of Judea (who were, at the time, polytheistic). It's the difference between your girlfriend saying you're not allowed to date anyone else and your girlfriend saying she's literally the only girl that has ever existed and will ever exist. It's not until after the Jews lost their war with the Babylonians and Solomon's temple was destroyed that we start seeing YHWH spoken of as the creator and the only God. Early versions of the creation story even have YHWH using the first person plural when making declarations, implying that the audience was other gods which would have been easily accepted at the time in which the stories emerged but are absolute anathema to Christians and Jews today. From memory, after Adam and Eve eat the apple YHWH says something like "They have eaten of the tree of knowledge, and now know of good and evil. If they eat from the tree of life they will become like us."
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Well, since it’s all made up, I guess you can claim whatever you want.
We're here for an interesting discussion. Mythology totally off the table for you?
May as well be discussing the hypothetical offspring of Santa and the Easter Bunny.
lol... I'm not even an atheist and I recognize the shit is all made up. Do you actually believe it happened?? or is this just "everyone I don't like is ugly"
to be fuckin honest, if the guy in the picture said the top comment, that's probably one of the most sexy and agreeable things he's said since breakfast