volodya_ilich @ volodya_ilich @lemm.ee

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543

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1 yr. ago

You're absolutely ignoring their comment. If democrat voters showed a spine and conditioned their vote to an end to the genocide, the democrat leadership may decide that it's worth it to cater to these voters to win the elections if that's what they want. By enabling all their actions through "vote blue no matter who" you're just degrading the democracy further, and postponing the choice 4 more years during which nothing will happen.

The genocide in Gaza is bipartisan, and the ongoing atrocities are taking place under a democrat administration.

The things you can do are support groups and politicians that will push the country in the direction you want it to move

So voting the greens is good because they're moving the country in the direction of non-genocide? I'm European myself, but I don't see how anyone could vote for the party whose candidate, during an ongoing genocide, says that "defends the right of Israel to defend itself" and claims that the US should have "the most lethal" fighting force in the world. Not most efficient, not most effective, not best funded: most LETHAL.

The Tankie actually said something on the lines of, "If you would JUST READ MARX you would know that earning capital is a fundamental cornerstone of communism!"

I'm a communist who doesn't want to call China a communist country, so I don't really agree with the person that you were talking to, but your second paragraph does show you haven't researched communism or its history. The debate of whether societies need to undergo capitalist capital accumulation first to enter communism is about as old as communism, and the history of communism is full of examples of this. It's the ideological reason why the Russian Socialist Democratic Labor Party split into two wings: the Mensheviks and the Bolsheviks, the former believing that the Russian Empire had to undergo capitalism first in other to become communist, and the latter wanting to implement socialism to the primitive almost feudalist Russian empire. Some similar split happened more discreetly inside the Communist Party of China, with Mao implementing socialism directly to the extremely underdeveloped Chinese society, and later Deng Xiaoping opting for the more market-socialism (known now to many as "socialism with Chinese characteristics).

So you may or may not agree whether china is communist, but from your comment it's clear that you're very oblivious to the historical and ideological reasons for the argument as to whether china is or isn't a socialist country and whether they're on the path to it. It's good to discuss things and to have opinions, but please get informed before dismissing other people's opinions on topics they've probably dedicated more time than you to studying.

Yeah, blame the immigrants. Very .world thing to do lol. Taking Germany, for example, according to Wikipedia, 0.17% population growth per year between 2010 and 2020 doesn't seem too great for me, compared to China's yearly >4% GDP growth for example they'd reduce per-capita growths by an insignificant amount. I'm European myself, and I can tell you that the lack of GDP per capita growth between 2008 and 2024 isn't due to population reasons either, and I'm guessing it's the same for the bigger EU economies like France,Italy and Spain but feel free to correct me otherwise.

2008 as my benchmark is exactly my point: the European economy has only now economically recovered from the effects of its own self-imposed policy of austerity and deprivation of worker rights and welfare, without having restored said rights or welfare to pre-2008 levels. And we see countries like the UK under "labor" administration falling to the same policy again as soon as they enter the government. In the meanwhile, without falling into such policy (although without many significant victories for welfare and labor AFAIK), China has grown its per-capita GDP threefold since 2008.

So no, I don't think "Chinese economy looks bad", I wish my European country's economy would mimic a fraction of the Chinese growth actually

Funny because I'm European, and the GDP per capita levels of most EU countries are at 2008 levels.

As for a population pyramid, China will face the same problem as other countries as you say, possibly more magnified.

Who thinks Chinese economy is bad now??

If you read the article, it's talking about a 2-year anniversary of some deliberation made by UN, not about any new evidence of anything. There's a claim of "hundreds of thousands still remain wrongfully imprisoned", but I beg you to find a source for that because the article doesn't provide any... because it's not true. The focus of the article is "there's been no punishment yet on any Chinese officials, and the laws are still in place". No (sourced) metrics of people suffering any abuses, nothing, just a general condemnation without evidence. Did you even read it?

Not "downvoted me", I'm not the original commenter. Saying "you're disagreeing with the OC without bringing any actual arguments" isn't ad-hominem.

Calling someone a fucking stupid kid, is.

Please, evidence from 2022 onwards

I asked for metrics, you're bringing words, do you see the problem?

How is "shut your stupid fucking mouth, kid" not a personal attack instead of attacking the substance of my arguments?

Wikipedia:

Ad hominem (Latin for 'to the person'), short for argumentum ad hominem, refers to several types of arguments that are fallacious. Often nowadays this term refers to a rhetorical strategy where the speaker attacks the character, motive, or some other attribute of the person making an argument rather than the substance of the argument itself

Ok, give me some metrics that explain why this is the most effective climate legislation please, other than Biden claiming so

So no metrics by which things are improving, gotcha.

There... are no metrics in the link you sent me... There's "plans to reduce emissions by X year", but no mention to progress so far. There's "investment into carbon capture and sequestration" (famously known to not work) but no metric. There's "a pause in the approvals for new natural gas projects" (but the ones approved keep opening up)...

Have you even read what you sent me?

Ok, can you please give me other metrics? How many nuclear plants have been built? How much has been invested into new rail infrastructure, whether for freight or for passengers? Have there been any new tariffs on the import of electric vehicles? Any regulation against single family housing, against car dependency, or against meat consumption?

Please, what metrics have improved, other than renewables being installed (at a much lower rate than in many countries)?

Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group

Exclusively anecdotic evidence

Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part

No evidence whatsoever, not even anecdotic. Look at the economic evolution of Xinjiang over time

Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group

Uyghur people were generally excluded from the single-child policy. By that logic, Han ethnics were genocided even more.

Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group

Exclusively anecdotal evidence

Please, be more serious with genocide accusations. This is a serious case of "Nayirah's testimony" all over again. Basing serious accusations of genocide against an ethnicity on isolated anecdotal evidence, most of it from anonymous interviews, is simply not enough in my opinion, especially when the claim comes against a geopolitical enemy of the USA.

All your sources are from 2021 or earlier, and there's been absolutely no further evidence of anything you say. Reeducation camps (which the Chinese government recognised existed as part of a counter-terrorism initiative, and which existed for about 5 years) are closed, no more anecdotal evidence has popped up, and there's no concerns anymore that there's any genocide ongoing against Uyghur people.

If you're concerned about prison population of a particular ethnicity, I highly recommend you look at incarceration rates of black people in the USA, which instead of being anecdotic and lasting 5-years, are a systemic issue that has existed for as long as the country has, and has no signs of stopping. I hope you don't make the claim that the US is genociding black people?