surph_ninja @ surph_ninja @lemmy.world

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9 mo. ago

We’re not talking about zero trade. We’re talking about nationalizing industries that are critical for economic or national security. There are plenty of countries who have done that, and the neoliberal west tends to retaliate against them for it.

For one, every country in the world controls which countries and outside parties their corporations can do business with.

Secondly, you obviously have no idea how business works in China, and the amount of control the central government exercises over them.

So what the fuck are you talking about?

That’s a lot of failed policies to avoid direct control and regulation of industries.

And that chips act was also paired with a chipmaker’s visa to import indentured labor from Taiwan. So while it was intended to bring back manufacturing, it was never going to deliver on the empty promises of jobs.

I guarantee the results would be the opposite of what you expect. The disinformation maintains the consensus. The voices speaking against the norm are the ones being drowned out by the bots and astroturfers.

Wow. That was a wildly inaccurate and naïve statement.

What other means?

If it’s an industry the nation needs to survive, economically or otherwise, that’s an industry that needs to be nationalized.

And this is the opposite of imperialism. Imperialism is what we have now.

Doesn’t need to. He’s pledged loyalty to Israel, and Trump serves them.

And he’ll just move to Israel. A lot of pedophiles move to Israel after getting caught in the states.

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/how-jewish-american-pedophiles-hide-from-justice-in-israel/

Their intent is to bring back manufacturing. I agree, it’s a bad plan.

The point with Taiwan is that both Dems & the GOP want to escalate to a potential hot war with China over control of Taiwan. But I see a lot of crossover between people who oppose drastic measures to bring back manufacturing stateside, while also supporting increased escalation with China.

So I’m asking people how they reconcile the two. How do they support war with our chief manufacturing partner, without supporting immediate measures to bring back manufacturing? As things stand, China could defeat us within a month by cutting off exports to the US.

As I stated, yes, the implementation is a clusterfuck. But unless we’re moving to a planned economy, aren’t widespread tariffs and increased costs necessary to force manufacturing to come back to the states?

It sounds like the warhawks in the Dems and GOP want war with China sometime this decade. How do you go to war with your manufacturing partner, and not crash the economy?

Good. They need to close bases, too. We don’t need 800+ foreign bases.

Yeah, everyone who disagrees with you is a bot.

I didn’t miss anything. I just don’t think any domestic industry required for economic & national security should hinge on something as precarious as incentivizing. If they’re that critical, it needs to be nationalized, with strict import bans. Fuck the profitability or buttering up capitalists in hopes they’ll do the right thing for us.

Personally I’m ready to try communism, nationalization, and a planned economy.

I agree that a centrally planned economy controlled by the elites would be tyranny. It needs to be controlled by local worker councils.

But that’s communism, and a dealbreaker for many people, regardless of whether it’s better.

It’s not just a “media statement.” This is what they’re saying to their shareholders, who they are legally required to divulge the facts to.

I think you’re not appreciating the number of years it would take to move manufacturing bases and train up the local skillset. It’s not a ‘they can’t ever do it.’ It’s that it would take at least a decade, and at the rate tensions are escalating, they cannot get to the point of moving that production in time.

I didn’t choose to ignore anything. I simply don’t agree with the status quo of finding exploitable populations to outsource to, and I don’t agree that shifting problems to a different part of the globe eliminates the problem.

One of the main reasons for mass immigration from Mexico is the exploitation in NAFTA that has had the opposite effect of what you claim, and eliminated upward mobility in Mexico.

That’s not correct. Almost every single manufacturing industry that was outsourced was plenty profitable here in the states. They were outsourced because it was more profitable to do it overseas. It’s a race to the bottom.

I agree tariffs aren’t the right move. Personally, I would support nationalization and import bans on certain industries.

The problem is, they will leave the moment you cut off the incentive. So it becomes a permanent subsidy.

Your positions do not seem to be supported by the facts. I don’t understand how you have maintained this perspective of interruptions and shipping affecting the US more than China. That certainly wasn’t the case during the pandemic.

And now with the tariff threats that we’re seeing, aerospace and military manufacturers are saying there are certain components they simply can’t manufacture here without importing from China. If tariffs are impeding that in anyway, I don’t see how they would survive a complete cut off. Especially without the raw resources we get from China, we couldn’t even set up independent manufacturing here if we wanted to.