stonedemoman @ stonedemoman @lemmy.world

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2 yr. ago

You could add keeping a job as a slide too. I've been laid off 8 times in 14 years because of fIdUciAry reSpoNsiBiLity.

Not one hour ago you were assuming I was some idiot that can't get linux to work because I advocate for preference. Get your two-faced shit out of here. Your noninclusive group of iconoclasts has done way more to push me away than any Windows community ever could.

You freely admit you can’t get linux to work properly, yet suppose to lecture everyone what they are and are not free to discuss about this very same topic you admit you can’t get a handle on.

if you wanna continue to embarrass yourself go ahead. i won’t be entertaining this sad display any longer.

Oh right, I forgot that you're superior and that therefore I'm incorrect by default. My bad.

despite me clearly and repeatedly denouncing it from day 1 of this discussion. all the best

Even though you still maintain that Microsoft and Windows are one and the same and have not addressed that you can use one without being in support of the other. Riiiiiiiiight.

it’s hardly a conflation, this hostile modus operandi is baked into the windows product itself with malicious and intrusive features. i’m not sure if this is news to anyone, but those user-hostile features were added to windows by microsoft. and the best defense offered thus far for that is basically “most or all tech giants do it too” - yes, thankyou that’s exactly our point. the fact that shipping this kind of abusive software has been normalised is part of the problem too.

For another example, your claim of conflation very much appears to be centred around your misunderstanding of the facts

I’m entirely unconvinced by your claim that any participation in “capitalistic evil” immediately invalidates all subsequent discernment of shades of evil or the complex interactions thereof.

even when discussing a topic you openly admit you know little to nothing about.

All because your ego got a little bruised

Funny, for somebody that claims to not conflate Windows with Microsoft you seem to spend a lot of time telling Windows users that they're ignorant or wrong for association with Microsoft. Not to mention you edited out most of the times you lumped them together.

I'm a Linux user. Duh-doy. My very first comment said as much. I self-host a media server on a Debian distro. That's one of the funniest parts of all this, people keep assuming that because it's a struggle for me that I was never successful at it or that I'm ignorant on the subject. I succeeded despite my inadequacies, thank you very much.

Also yes, that's how it's gonna be if you're just going to continue perpetuating some of the collateral damage and call my attempt to change that ...how did you put it? Oh right

wasting my time

Nice one. Hey, have fun continuing to be part of the smug assholes that give Linux a bad name.

For another example, your claim of conflation very much appears to be centred around your misunderstanding of the facts

Not even close. This is plain to see, as nowhere in this entire essay, nor in any of your other comments for that matter, do you even address my point that lumping in Windows users with the immoral actions of a company results in a harmful dissonance that breeds hostility towards people that realistically don't have another choice. Time and time again you've just ignored this and spouted some platitudes about how Microsoft being bad and Windows being their product somehow means that there's no need to delineate the two because of their relationship. You can support one without supporting the other. There's no need to tap dance around it.

At least you've confirmed my suspicions that you hold these beliefs because of some misguided sense of superiority. I.E. I'm wrong because I can't comprehend the problem. This is our miscommunication.

or you’re actually engaging in bad faith discussion

How can you even begin to think this when I've done nothing but advocate for both operating systems and attempted to elucidate the root of hostilities? How is my goal here not completely obvious?

But you're still grouping two distinct things together and feeding this monster that is 'guilty by association'. At this point you're either willfully ignoring my part about conflation or arguing just to argue. 🤷

invalidates all subsequent discernment of shades of evil

no moral high ground

Do you see how these statements are different? Because let me remind you:

Do you wish to tell others where they choose to draw their own lines for their own lives are incorrect?

You're dangerously close to implying that where others choose to draw their own lines is incorrect.

Do you wish to tell others where they choose to draw their own lines for their own lives are incorrect?

No, and in fact it's the other way around. This is exactly the underlying position used to attack Windows users. I don't know how you can be so involved on the subject and not understand this.

It doesn't matter if you're personally guilty of this or not. Just look at the downvotes and verbal attack I received simply for stating that both operating systems have merit. This is the result of conflating Microsoft with Windows, that there's an innate feeling of moral superiority in the denouncement of Windows users because of the harm done by its creator.

My point is that these two things are distinct and need to be distinguished. Criticize Windows all you want. Criticize Microsoft all you want. But if you start to criticize Windows for its association with Microsoft, then communication starts to break down and people start getting blamed for something they don't even personally support because of a perceived moral high ground.

There is no moral high ground to be had over your every day user, because at the end of the day we're all participants of capitalistic evil no matter where we choose to draw our personal lines. That's what I meant.

😂 Duly noted

🤷 As far as I'm concerned, as long as people are laughing with me and not at me I don't give a shit. I can't speak for the rest of my countrymen though.

lol That's a more succinct way to put it than what I could come up with, I like it

I do believe that's the response you get, people do like to assume the worst. Do you have any solid proof that any hostile response you get is from Americans? I'm still very skeptical it's a problem specific to one nation.

Politics is one of the most divisive subjects you can bring up. People react emotionally because it's an emotional science. What's "right" comes down to your ethical perspective. I don't think that should be grouped in with this conversation.

I'm starting to get this feeling too. Most of the Americans I know, myself included, rip America a new one at any given opportunity.

Your idea of making the world a better place is bullying people into submission? Something doesn't quite add up there. 🤔

The logic just doesn't follow. If we can't distinguish between the evil of a corporation and the use of its products/services then everyone here is going to burn for using electronics made by children in another country.

"most or all tech giants do it too"

This wasn't my point at all. I'm simply stating that not everyone has the time and/or patience for Linux. I'm not a programmer. Most of the time that I do use Linux, it's a struggle with a worthwhile outcome.

What an unsurprising outcome, it's almost like this is exactly the kind of unwarranted hostility the original comment alluded to. The most ironic part is I use Linux too.

I have just as much right to be here and to say my piece as you do.

Still though, this is conflating Windows and Microsoft. This conversation started about Linux users shitting on Windows, not Microsoft. I think Windows is decent at providing a relatively low effort experience while I also agree that Microsoft is guilty of all the typical practices of corporate greed.

I don't buy Microsoft products anymore for that reason, but I still use them (if you catch my drift).

Sometimes it just comes down to preference. I like Linux a lot for systems where I need the low overhead. But on my gaming PC, where I don't have to worry as much about overhead, I prefer the convenience of not having to learn SSH commands or open source workarounds.