steventhedev @ steventhedev @lemmy.world

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48

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494

Joined

2 yr. ago

War is not a good solution and it should never be the first solution. But it exists and burying your head in the sand and pretending it doesn't exist is just naive.

By the way, every single one of those examples is real and relatively recent. Today, a 16 year old kid stabbed two border police in Jerusalem and was shot dead by a third. In May 2022, a 16 year old girl was ordered to stand next to an Israeli jeep while they were in a firefight with PIJ fighters. A 13 year old shot two people in January and was killed by one of the men he shot. There have been more than a few talking heads that have claimed the last one, but I doubt there will be any credible news reporting on it.

These are just a handful of examples from recent times. Most of them won't compare to what happens inside Gaza where the fog of war is going to be thick and intentionally so by both sides.

I posted this article because I knew it was a matter of time for someone to post the Al Jazeera article and it would lack the proper context that this is hate speech, and that the evidence is very much towards it having been written by her.

That happened by the way. I'd link it for you but I'm on mobile now.

My justification for the invasion of Gaza is the actions of Hamas on October 7th and their actions every day since then, not people writing hate speech on social media. What I'm trying to say is that there is no viable option for long term peace so long as hate speech like this exists and their educational system drills it into every single child.

Now do you see what I mean?

Because that account - @ahed_tamimi15 - was tagged by accounts that collaborated with her (including her book's co-author)

Fake accounts used for propaganda are a dime a dozen - this is not that.

I didn't forget the hate speech on the other side. But they don't include it in their official government sponsored school curriculum.

There is a place for legitimate criticism of Israeli policy - but I draw the line at calling for the death of Israelis. It isn't criticism; it's just hate speech.

The problem that I'm trying to pull up here is that this is not an isolated incident of a single person posting hate speech. There is a large group of people who celebrated the events of October 7th, and are passing that hatred on to their children through education.

You mean this:

The post is no longer visible online, nor is the account carrying Ms Tamimi's name and photo where it was published last week.

Except it is cached in the wayback machine, and there are posts that still tag her. Don't read one article - read all of them, read some primary sources, and make your own decision. I'm convinced that someone published this on her account, either her or someone she gave access to.

Well, I can see you're not from Iran

I can only find this reference for the Talmud, which is pretty clear that it's only a recommendation to marry at 18 instead of 13

What is proportionate to the brutal murder of 1400 people, including women and children?

What is proportionate to the ongoing rocket barrages on civilians?

Seriously though - what do you think Israel would do if you were in their shoes? Would you unconditionally surrender and allow Hamas to commit genocide?

With absolutely no source whatsoever

Sorry, I thought you would have done the minimum of research and checked the other posts in !world@lemmy.world first:

• JPost, and again covering her arrest
• Times of Israel
• WSJ
• BBC - they at least printed the message, instead of leaving it out entirely

JPost is obviously biased, but actually links a primary source - which include screencaps of her account (@ahed_tamimi15) and linking IG posts from others tagging that account as part of her book tour.

Her message, conveniently missing from this article:

“Come on settlers, we will slaughter you. We are waiting for you in all the cities of the West Bank. What Hitler did to you was a picnic. We will drink your blood and eat your skulls”

posted to her Instagram account that has been tagged for years as part of her book tour and her social life. If she didn't write it, she still gave someone that platform to spread a message of pure hate and should share the responsibility for their actions.

A 16 year old is a child, right? Let's look at some semi-hypotheticals and you tell me who you think is to blame:

• A 16 year old with a butcher knife who has already stabbed two people
• A 16 year old being told to stand next to a jeep in the middle of a firefight
• A 16 year old shooting a rifle
• A 4 year old boy who is forced to be next to a senior commander 24/7 who holds the boy in front of him when the shooting starts

War is hell, and it is complicated. Child soldiers will die, and there will be civilians caught in the crossfire. The is no track for this trolley that has 0 children. Any military has to balance the number of civilians killed vs the risk to its own soldiers vs the likelihood of killing their intended targets. If you expect them to sacrifice hundreds or thousands of soldiers just to avoid a few civilians, you grossly misunderstand how the world works. Most military forces will certainly be unwilling to sacrifice a single soldier for a single civilian, even on their own side.

This isn't an isolated incident. It's one of many posts by influencers like the Hadid sisters, Mia Khalifa, and more. She's an idiot, but she's representative example of Palestinian sentiment at the moment.

The children dying right now are the result of an unrelenting campaign of violent hate speech and teaching hatred in schools.

This makes the Dungeon Master uncomfortable

More likely a temporary measure while they move forces through areas they suspect have IEDs planted. Disabling the mobile networks will prevent them from using cellphones for remote detonation - a common Hamas method of detonating suicide bombers and IEDs.

Chances are once they've finished maneuvers they'll dig in to new positions, mark off IEDs they do find, and restore service.

Iran, Hezbollah, and Houthi are the primary audience, but the message is also intended for Russia (indirectly).

This matches up with the public statements by Biden, Blinken, and other US officials that all the forces currently being added to the Middle East are there as deterrence. The US have been running drone surveillance flights over Gaza for a few weeks - I assume to corroborate the intelligence being handed to them by Israel.

The other half of this message is to Russia - likely in response to their withdrawl from the Nuclear Test Ban Treaty. I'm not confident enough to speculate on what the intended message is, but I'm certain it was intended for them as well.

Bye bye job. Good riddance.

It's published in their opinion section by an author who has only published this one article on MEE, with this disclaimer:

The views expressed in this article belong to the author and do not necessarily reflect the editorial policy of Middle East Eye.

Opinion articles tend to rely on sources that have not been formally verified in the journalistic sense. That's why they're disallowed by Rule 3 in the sidebar.

I did skip over the first paragraph - janky formatting on my phone.

Looking at the report linked in the first paragraph - it's published by DCI-P, a nonjournalistic organization. They've been accused of being connected to terrorist funding in the past (apparently with sufficient evidence to make their banks close their accounts), but I don't see them on the OFAC lists so it's not a smoking gun to not trust them. Haaretz covered it, and it does seem to be a legitimate account of using a human shield with no followup prosecution coverage of the forces involved.

The second link is a tweet by an Iranian news station. Iran is not an unbiased source for news about Israel/Palestine.

The embedded tweets (now that they actually load) are referring to the same incident in May 2022. Are you perhaps referring to the May 2002 incident mentioned a few paragraphs later?

Your comment looks blank. Is that a federation issue? Or is that a kbin/lemmy thing?

From the reports I've seen which are far from comprehensive, it's closer to 99%.

Almost certainly - Israeli military censorship of the media is fairly comprehensive. They are famously overzealous to the point of refusing to release information even if it would be beneficial to Israel's image - just to protect opsec.

With the release of the doctrinal document, indicating the depopulation plan of the Gaza strip, move the civilian south, keep the pressure up, then somehow move them into Egypt.

Yeah, that document is incredibly worrying. But it's not an official planning document, and the rest of the government seems against it at the moment. From what I can tell, it was authored in part by Kohelet, the same thinktank that put together the judicial reform plan that caused mass protests in Israel earlier this year.

...guarantee that they would be allowed to return to their homes...

Very good point. I doubt they trust the IDF much, but perhaps if it were backed up by the US/Egypt some might accept that.

Do you have anything from the last 10 years?

1. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-palestinian-israel-children-idUSBRE95J0FR20130620 Article from 2013.
2. https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/israel-gaza-idf-used-palestinians-as-human-shields-1200-occasions-in-last-five-years-say-israeli-defence-officials/30483468.html Article from 2005 describing the policy change.
3. https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/israel-palestine-use-human-shields-rising Opinion article from 2022 that claims it's ongoing but cites pages and links describing how it stopped in 2005.
4. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3650791.stm Article from 2004.

EDIT: I missed a legitimate report from Article 3, covered in Haaretz