osarusan @ osarusan @kbin.social

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357

Joined

2 yr. ago

My dude, I'm here to actually have conversations, not use sophomoric quotes that are unrelated to what's actually going on.

If you're interested in engaging honestly, let's do this. Otherwise...

Sure, that tracks. You'd have a share of responsibility for the result of that choice. But as it's much farther removed from the actual election, it would far less responsibility than someone who voted for Jill Stein, or who wrote-in Bernie Sanders, or anyone other than Hillary in the actual eleciton though.

The sad thing is you think I'm insulting you.

I'm not.

I'm trying very hard to help you understand that you've been fooled into acting against your own interests. There's no reason to take it personally or try to come up with some sort of "gotcha" to throw back at me. Especially since I actually agree with what I guess you thought was some kind of slam dunk take-down.

In fact it's extra tragic, because not only are you fooled so thoroughly, but you're also getting defensive about it rather than just listening to what I and others are saying and examining the consequences of that choice. You should be here for conversation, not for meaningless grandstanding and digging your feet deeper into a misunderstanding.

This is a "look what you made me do to you" sort of thing.

Electing Obama took us back 40 or 50 years on race relations because the racists decided they couldn't handle it. It wasn't Obama's fault, or Obama's voters fault. It was entirely the fault of the GOP.

Agree 100%.

I hate the system, and I genuinely sympathize with people who want to vote for their dream candidates.

I just wish they would open their eyes and understand how the system actually works, and how they are being duped by rich, powerful people into actively working against their own goals.

We can change the system by being active politically at the local level. But change will never come by voting in a dream candidate, because even if hypothetically someone like that won the presidency, they would simply be at the mercy of the legislature with zero support from either party. A third party president would be a lame duck before they even swore their inauguration oath.

Will the mountains be as boring as NMS?

I can't tell if you're just expressing extreme disgust, or if you're actually asking the question...

Whether by action or inaction, if your vote supports Trump getting elected, then you are a Trump supporter, a GOP supporter, and share a portion of the responsibility for the greater destruction and genocide that is brought about by that result.

So in fact, we all do get to blame you and others who support Trump.

It's a golden rule in life, but not in a two-party first-past-the-post political system. In that system, it's a dogshit rule.

Every fucking presidential candidate will continue the US policies that have been in place for decades. That includes Jill Stein, Cornell West, anybody. They will all continue to supply arms to Israel, because no president is going to revolutionize the entire US political system.

You don't stop genocide by hopes-and-dreams voting for an incompetent candidate who has no chance of winning, thus securing the presidency for the party that promises more genocide. That's how you make the problem far, far worse.

You wanna stop genocide? Start with your Representatives and Senators and convince them to forbid the president from taking military action without a formal declaration of war.

It's literally the fault of voters of Trump wins.

whether or not he was acting as President when he was giving the Jan 6, 2021 speech or whether he was campaigning as a private citizen.

This is some sovereign citizen bullshit. Of course that's the kind of the argument Trump's lawyers would make. It should take 2 seconds to slap this down, except with how corrupt the SC is I don't have any confidence they won't just give it to him.

Ironically I'm still getting shit upon by one or two freakish trolls for simply asking questions and engaging in dialog.

It's kind of annoying that the block feature doesn't work right, since I still get notifications whenever people I've blocked comment.

"Your honor, I'm not a murderer; I was just a murderer for one day."

ITT: "The whole system is broken and it will never get better because every candidate is awful and good people never run. Why does nobody like me ever run for office?"

Also ITT: ”Why would you run for office if not for personal gain? ”

I know you're just being cynical, and I'm just poking at you... but really, though. For the people, by the people, and of the people. If you hate the people running so much, seriously, step up and run! That's the entire point of our system!

It's the vagueness that's the problem. Without lists of who is to be released, it just becomes Israel's word of who is there or not. It could be 100 people or 10,000 people. I suspect Hamas is far more aware of who is imprisoned and how much they are worth. Like, is Hamas demanding the release of random violent criminals, rapists, car thieves, etc. solely because of their ethnicity? I doubt it. But they'll want their fighters back, and any political prisoners, stuff like that.

If something as vague as "release everyone" or "release all Palestinians in Israeli jails" or whatever is one of their actual demands, it's unfortunate, because it makes it sound more like they're not serious and are just making impossible demands that they know will not/can not be met as an excuse to continue fighting but to give off the appearance of working for peace. Just as if "the eradication of the Israeli state" were one of their demands. But I can't really accuse them of that yet since I haven't seen an actual list of demands and we're both just speculating at this stage.

Well for an actual "list of demands" I would expect things like "release these people:" followed by a list of names, and "stop doing these violations:" followed by a list of the violations they are accusing Israel of. "Release everybody" and "stop doing bad things" are technically demands, but they're not the kind of things you'd expect in an actual list of specific demands. Those certainly work as summaries of the demands, but I was hoping that some news agency would have an actual list of the specific things Hamas is demanding in order to release the hostages rather than just "do everything we want." I've seen them mention the drones in another article, which I suspect must be one of the things on the actual list.

Unfortunately you're right, it doesn't say a whole lot.

While Hamas may appear to have fulfilled its declared short-term goals of deterring Israeli violations of Al-Aqsa Mosque and taking hostages to bargain for the release of Palestinian political prisoners held in Israeli jails, it does not appear to have a long-term end game.

and later

Three days into Hamas’s surprising and overwhelming attack, it is not clear what its end game is and what it can do to reap long-term benefits. Its priority has seemed to be to take both military and civilian hostages to help deter aggressive Israeli retaliation and later exchange them for Palestinian prisoners in Israeli jails.

Which contradicts the idea in the OP article stating about Hamas' "demands."

The closet thing I could find was this:

The Hamas leadership has said that the objectives of the attacks are ending “Israeli violations”, securing the release of Palestinian prisoners, and “returning to the project of establishing a state”.

Which are certainly objectives, but not specific enough to be demands.

Searching for "hamas' list of demands" online, there are several articles similar to the one above that reference it, but no list of demands that I can see. The closest things I can find are the 1988 and 2017 Hamas charters, which aren't particularly specific other than the original one calls for the eradication of Israel and the Jews, and the revised one just calls for the eradication of Israel... which isn't exactly a demand as much as an aspiration, and is kind of a moot point because it doesn't seem like something that would be accepted by Israel.

So I'm still looking for an actual list of demands...

Is there an actual published list of demands somewhere that is cite-able?

Lol what the fuck is your problem?

I ask a question, making me a boot licker. So I guess people who never ask questions, like you, are what... ?

Fucking trolls is what.