machinin @ machinin @lemmy.world

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15

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519

Joined

2 yr. ago

If only we could implement similar testing protocols to the aviation version to validate it's safety!

It's not that Teslas are killing their owners. Teslas are killing first responders to road accidents, kids getting off buses and motorcyclists. We're all exposed to the problems caused by Musk cutting out testing to save some money.

So why do you think Tesla's crash at a higher rate? I think it's a combination of instant acceleration, poor sensor-suite (like the lack of radar), and Tesla giving idiots free-reign to abuse the system as they please.

And that is why Tesla shouldn't be promoting videos that abuse the system. If they do, make Tesla liable when their customers abuse the system.

Tesla marketing is their chief marketer retweeting videos of people having sex on autopilot and making jokes about it, or the doctored video on their website where the driver spends the whole drive without touching the steering wheel, or Tesla's CEO driving around in a news interview with his hands of the wheel for much of the ride, or promoting influencer videos that don't follow that guidance.

You think giving me Tesla marketing BS, published by a proxy Tesla marketing rag, is going to convince me? If it is anything else like Tesla's marketing department, they just pulled something out of their ass, Musk saw the numbers and told them to fudge it some more, and then they put it up on their website dressed in fancy graphs and tech-speak. That's why you'll never find any actual data that third-party researchers can verify it with.

You have this article that looked at a four-month period. During that time, Tesla was responsible for every 10 of 11 deaths related to automated driving features. This report states that Tesla has the most accidents of any brand.

Tesla's create horrible driving habits in their customers. On the one hand, you have the CEO that creates a culture to disregard for safety and rules, praising users that openly go against the terms of use, as long as they show it doing something cool. On the other hand, you have a system that is just good enough to lull you into a sense of safety and confidence in the system itself. Then one day it decides to kill a motorcyclist, a kid getting off the bus, or a paramedic working on the side of the road. The driver that maybe praised Tesla to their friends and colleagues about how amazing it was is now dumbstruck because the car acted so unexpectedly.

Tesla is just as much as fault as the driver for that situation.

Yes, and he and Tesla should be liable for marketing and promoting the abuses of FSD.

When did I refer to Musk? You must be sensitive.

Yes, when cruise control came out over 100 years ago, there were very little controls. Responsible car makers have changes that. Some even recently aimed for zero fatalities for people using their cars and the associated technologies.

And there are many cars that keep you from driving into a wall. Maybe, at this point, you can't keep 100 percent of the idiots from doing something stupid, but responsible car makers do much, much better than Tesla, who actually promotes and markets the actions of idiots abusing the systems in their cars.

I haven’t seen the video you are mentioning. It would be stupid for them to market that as a current feature.

https://indianexpress.com/article/technology/tech-news-technology/musk-courts-controversy-with-tweets-on-sex-video-filmed-in-tesla-5721645/

Yeah, a responsible CEO would take measures to remove the video, makes statements about the dangers of abusing the system, etc. instead, Tesla CEO, which is also the main marketing account, makes jokes about it.

Tesla is full of "the driver is always responsible" small print, and then promoting the reckless use of the system through influencer videos and winks from the CEO saying that the legal stuff it's just due to those peaky regulators. If it wasn't for them, you wouldn't really need to keep your hands on the wheel or pay attention. The car just drives itself.

Nothing can stop people from being idiots. Most of the accidents are people being idiots.

This is the stupidity I hate most about Tesla shills.

Great engineers make genius innovations all the time to keep idiots from harming themselves or others. Those innovations saturate our society and industries at all levels. Good engineering should be trying to do it more.

Tesla just doesn't care, or is even complicit in giving the idiots just enough freedom so people can think Tesla is ahead of the competition. The only difference from Tesla is that other car manufacturers don't give idiots that freedom.

Musk's retweet of the people have sex on FSD with the cute little joke is Tesla marketing.

Grey had the right idea when he said they didn't need to be perfect, just as good as or better than humans.

The better question - is Tesla's FSD causing drivers to have more accidents than other driving assist technologies? It seems like a yes from this article and other data I've linked elsewhere in this thread.

Genocide, go ahead and say it, considering his support for genocide.

It isn't the average driver. Most cars are equipped with driver assist features, we have to say that is should be better than people using current driver assist features from other companies. If Tesla is behind everyone else, but better than a 20 year-old car, it's still problematic.

What I take issue with is saying that the cars are 4 wheeled death machines killing everyone in their path. That is not true. It is also not true that other companies are solving the same problem without risk.

I never said that. It isn't black or white. I said musk creates a culture that despises safety engineering. Other companies like Volvo embrace it. Different companies embrace it to different degrees. As a result, you have wildly different fatality rates. Teslas happen to be the worst (although, like you said, it's impossible to get good data that accounts for all the factors).

Yes, it is a people problem, but it is also a systems problem. Volvo has aimed for zero fatalities in their cars. They engineer for problematic people. They went 16 years without a fatality in the UK in one of their models. Tesla simply doesn't care about problematic people. In fact, problematic people may even get a boost from a Musk re-tweet.

I agree, zero incidents may be impossible and people are problematic. But attitudes, practices, cultures and systems can either amplify those problems or dampen their effects. Musk and Tesla amplify the negative effects. It doesn't have to be that way.

Probably not you personally, but the system, oil companies, and people like Musk and his followers that want to prioritize private driving over public transportation.

I say fuck cars, and I have one too. I try to avoid using it, but it's easy to be lazy. I'm also fortunate to live someplace with great public transportation.

Don't take it personally, just realize life can be better if we could learn to live without these huge power-hungry cargo containers taking us everywhere.

It's not just hatred for Musk. Yes, he is a racist that had a place in his factory called "the plantation" for black workers. He swatted the wife and children of a whistleblower. There is so much shit he does, but that isn't what makes Teslas dangerous.

Teslas are dangerous because he creates a culture that despises safety engineering practices. When someone has sex on autopilot and endangers everyone on the road around them, does Musk rebuke them? No, he makes a joke. Now, good followers think that the silly little warning that pops up every time probably doesn't mean much. If a worker says that something probably needs more testing before release, do you think he pauses to consider the safety implications? I can guarantee he doesn't care.

So, you get someone who runs into a fireman on the road and kills them because they were using autopilot while distracted. Or you back over a motorcycle driver and kill them, or plow into a firetruck and kill some more people.

Musk and sycophants like you that think it's okay to have a cavalier attitude about safety because people just have to be sacrificed for technology. You are menaces. We don't have to sacrifice passengers to make airlines safer. We have proper testing and systems in place to integrate better technology at very little risk. In the same way, we don't have to sacrifice motorcycle drivers, first responders, other drivers or pedestrians just because you think your technology is worth it. Other car manufacturers have implemented those safety test systems. Tesla just doesn't want to spend the money so Musk can get his payout.

You're happy that a racist, misogynist billionaire whose companies have some of the worst employee safety data in the industries he's involved in is pushing these cars onto public roads? Musk doesn't care about our safety. Like everything else, he lies about it to make money.

We have no clue if Tesla's are safer than humans drivers in any other car. Tesla publishes those charts, but the data is no where to be found.

Musk lies to make money. You can't trust anything Tesla publishes.

I don't want Tesla testing their shit on the public roads and putting me at risk so that Musk can make more money. I don't opt in to be one of his beta testers.

I was looking up info for another comment and found this site. It's from 2021, but the information seems solid.

https://www.flyingpenguin.com/?p=35819

This table was probably most interesting, unfortunately the formatting doesn't work on mobile, but I think you can make sense of it.

Car 2021 Sales So Far Total Deaths

Tesla Model S 5,155 40

Porsche Taycan 5,367 ZERO

Tesla Model X 6,206 14

Volkswagen ID 6,230 ZERO

Audi e-tron 6,884 ZERO

Nissan Leaf 7,729 2

Ford Mustang Mach-e 12,975 ZERO

Chevrolet Bolt 20,288 1

Tesla Model 3 51,510 87

So many cars with zero deaths compared to Tesla.

It isn't if Tesla's FSD is safer than humans, it's if it's keeping up with the automotive industry in terms of safety features. It seems like they are falling behind (despite what their marketing team claims).

You might find this page interesting -

https://www.flyingpenguin.com/?p=35819