machinin @ machinin @lemmy.world

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15

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519

Joined

2 yr. ago

All throughout these comments, you seem deeply, deeply confused. Let's go over this sloooowly.

Mercedes has two autonomous systems. Let's call them MB FSD and MB Autodrive.

MB FSD has similar features to Tesla's. It isn't geo-restricted. You have to pay attention, just like Tesla. It isn't true autonomous driving, just like Tesla. If you have an accident, you are responsible, just like Tesla.

MB Autodrive is another feature set. It is L3 autonomy, which means it is limited geographically and the driver should be available to take over when prompted. It also means that the driving is completely autonomous. The driver can be reading, playing on their phone, or simply laying there with their eyes closed. Mercedes will even take legal and financial responsibility for any accidents that happen on their system.

So, to summarize:

FSD -type systems: Mercedes and Tesla (and many other car makers)

Level 3: not Tesla, Mercedes

True autonomous driving is when the manufacturer takes responsibility for the car's actions. Anything else is assisted driving. Until Tesla takes responsibility for accidents, you can't consider them to have certified autonomous driving.

Is that any clearer to you? After seeing some of your other shilling for Tesla in other posts, maybe there is a reason you don't want to recognize the advantages of other systems?

Musk is not sending his best here.

If I understand that person correctly, you are confusing the two systems.

Mercedes has two systems. One of a driver assist system that does everything the current version of FSD can do. It is unlimited in the same way that Tesla's FSD is unlimited.

They have an additional system, that you cite, that is Level 3, a true hands-off self-driving system. It is geographically limited.

So, the question is, does Tesla have any areas where you can legally drive hands free using their software?

At what point do we start actually expecting and enforcing that people be responsible with potentially dangerous things in daily life, instead of just blaming a company for not putting enough warnings or barriers to entry?

Volvo seeks to have zero human deaths in their cars. Some places seek zero fatality driving environments. These are cultures where safety is front and center. Most FSD enthusiasts (see comments in the other threads below) cite safety as the main impetus for these systems. Hopefully we would see similar cultural values in Tesla.

Unfortunately, Musk tweets out jokes when responding to a video of people having sex on autopilot. That is Tesla culture. Musk is responsible for putting these dangerous things in consumers hands and has created a culture where irresponsible and possibly fatal abuse of those things is something funny for everyone to laugh at. Of course, punish the individual users who go against the rules and abuse the systems. You also have to punish the company, and the idiot at the top, who holds those same rules in contempt.

Comment:

none of their analysis methods or data points are available to independent researchers.

Your response:

It's up to independent researches from now.

I think you missed an important point there. Can you show the detailed methods and data points that Tesla used for their marketing materials?

I have a feeling that user blocks people that are critical of Tesla. They are probably oblivious to several comments in this thread. It's really no wonder why they have no clue about how bad Tesla really is.

"Fuck this guy for bringing facts into our circlejerk" - The downvoters, probably

Ha! Just saw this. Did someone get their facts confused?

That's the fine print. He's talking about the marketing - the influencer videos, Musk's tweets of those videos, Tesla's own marketing videos, etc.

What makes this time any different from the dozens of other times musk had said we're six months away from FSD? When do you think Tesla will take responsibility for accidents that happen while using their software?

If they do that in the next year, I'll gladly eat humble pie. If they can't, will you?

You can literally type in an address and the car will take you there with zero input on the driver's part. If that's not full self-driving then I don't know what is.

Who is responsible if there is an accident, you or Tesla? That is the difference from true FSD and regular driver assistance features.

Regarding driving regulations -

If we had better raw data, I'm sure we could come up with better conclusions. Knowing the absolutely tremendous amount of BS that Musk spews, we can't trust anything Tesla reports. We're left to speculate.

At this point, it is probably best to compare statistics for other cars with similar technologies. For example, Volvo reported that they went 16 years without a fatal accident in their XC90 model in the UK (don't know about other places). That was a couple of years ago, I don't know if they have been able to keep that record up. With that kind of record that has lasted for so long, I think we have to ask why Tesla is so bad.

Oops, you fell for the Tesla marketing BS. FSD isn't actually full self driving like the Mercedes system. With Tesla, you have to keep your hands on the wheel at all times and pay close attention to the road. You are completely responsible for anything that happens. Mercedes takes responsibility for any accidents their software causes.

I don't know how up-to-date this is, but it's amazing.

https://elonmusk.today/

But it works and it's hands off. Tesla can't even legally do that under any condition.

And fuck you if you ask Tesla to pay for any mistakes their software might make. It is ALWAYS your fault.

I say let Tesla market it as Autopilot if they pass similar regulatory safety frameworks as aviation autopilot functions.

But Tesla had a video in 2016 saying that people were only in the driver seat for legal reasons. Musk even said it was only an issue with regulators.

Oh, who to believe!

Notice, when talking about new features, Tesla shills love to promote how great it is and how often it saves then from problems (I can't imagine how badly they must drive. We intervened on our grandmother after a couple of close calls). Then, when there is news about these accidents, they are so quick to blame the driver.

Also, all these problems are with the old versions, the new versions clean up everything.

I do agree with OP here about one thing - don't take anything Tesla and Musk say about the cars' capabilities seriously (including how that might impact stock price) until Tesla is willing to take financial responsibility for accidents. Until then, it's all Musk bullshit.

Probably not

You're in control of a massive vehicle capable of killing people and destroying property, you're responsible for it.

If only Elon would say something similar when he re-tweets a video of people having sex while the car is on autopilot. Can you guess what he actually said?

Protests like these are often what politicians' lives are built on. These students will be seen on the right side of history, and to have the conviction to be jailed for it? That would get my vote.

They should add "not yet, at least."