Lemmy.ml tankie censorship problem
lltnskyc @ lltnskyc @monero.town Posts 0Comments 98Joined 2 yr. ago
lltnskyc @ lltnskyc @monero.town
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So, most of the fediverse instances don't deserve attention is the fediverse? That's an interesting take :)
Oh yeah, that's the other one, thx!
I did not even get a notification for that comment why it was deleted, but now I see, and sure enough - it's misinformation (despite providing 5 or 6 links to sources in a comment below, including reputable western (!!) media and tens/hundreds of footages...). 🤷♂️
Okay, that's fair enough.
Still, complaining about censorship while engaging in censorship is hypocritical 🤷
Oh yeah definitely, I forgot that one - everything they say is a misinformation, no matter the included sources and any proofs, and everything we say is the purest truth possible!
Seriously, it's like the meme was created exactly for this post 🙃
Nice, didn't know there was a possibility to see deleted comments, thanks :) (not every deleted comment is there though, but enough to show the total hypocrisy of lemmy.world)
they delete truthful responses that contradict their ideology
That is EXACTLY what is done on lemmy.world.
You don't see even a bit of hypocrisy in that? Holy shit...
I have exactly the same complaint about lemmy.world - it's censuring everything that doesn't align with leftist views (and on the other hand, when I post on lemmy.ml it's usually not deleted).
Oh I know, I know, let me guess, they are censoring people because they are evil and authoritarian and are bad people, but you are censuring people because you are all democratic and for freedom and so on and anyway the ones that get censored are tankies and fascists and russian bots/propagandists?...
https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/2355607-our-blessed-homeland-their-barbarous-wastes
it is conservative/ right wing parties pushing for heavier surveillance of citizens.
My experience is totally different, although of course I don't know the situation in whatever country you're from.
Arguably, the main reason for surveillance (being able to read your communication) is to be able to censor you (prevent you from posting/saying things somebody else doesn't like) or even punish you for something you say.
And I don't see how can anyone argue that it is not the left that wants to censor everything and punish people for things they say :)
If somebody wants to actually try arguing it, please answer the following question (in parentheses I'll leave the suggested answer 😉, but let me know if yours are different)
- Why is almost every free speech site is a right-wing site, and not a left-wing one? (because they are extremist, and we need to censor and jail them! but it is okay, because they are the bad ones and we are the good ones.)
- Is it okay to criticize alphabet people (and call them alphabet people ig 🙃), post statistics of violent crimes by race, and generally speak bad about minorities? (nooo, you can't do that, we should protect minorities no matter what the reality is, you should be censored and jailed!)
- Is it okay to tell people what is actually happening in Ukraine and what atrocities Zelensky's regime is committing? (nooo, you can't do that, you're a fascist and/or russian bot/propagandist, it's all a lie even if you provide us with credible/primary sources, we should censor you as soon as possible for propaganda or misinformation or something and definitely jail you!)
Just today, news, this time directly from a Ukrainian source (so please use a google translate or something): https://focus.ua/uk/voennye-novosti/650441-mobilizaciya-po-novomu-viyskova-policiya-zmozhe-zahoditi-v-zhitlo-ta-vinagorodzhuvati-za-dopomogu
Now, we are not just going to be kidnapped on the streets, they are going to break into our homes, and kidnap us in front of our families and forcibly send to die.
But you still support it, after all it's not some people worth worrying about, it's just Ukrainians, we can be slaughtered till the last person in the name of geopolitics, right?
ancap think tank
So basically you have no arguments against what is said there, so you just attack the source instead of disproving anything that is written there? Very cool :)
online “museum”
But what sources would you expect? The mainstream media is not going to report every case, because it shows completely opposite view to the current propaganda that says that Ukraine is a democratic country where people want to fight and die for their glorious master leader Zelensky...
Here is a link for you to msn, is it a more reliable source which you would trust?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/ukraine-urgently-needs-soldiers-but-some-men-are-desperate-not-to-fight/ar-BB1naQUE
Some quotes from there:
When you see people in uniform, you panic. You start thinking someone will mobilize you now against your will
You worry that someone will throw you into the bus one day, take you somewhere, turn off your phone, and you will be cut off from the world"
It shows a physical fight between recruitment officers and civilians
Another article:
https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-russia-war-recruitment/32310040.html
Another article:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66542065
Telegram threads give tip-offs on where drafting officers are patrolling. There are chats for different regions and cities across the country, sometimes with more than 100,000 members each. there are reports of some being taken away on the spot, without a chance to return home.
But there are claims of officers using harsh or intimidating tactics. There are also reports of conscripts finding themselves on the front line with just a month of training.
Another article, also with a video of "man being dragged into van by conscription officers in Odesa":
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/15/bribes-and-hiding-at-home-the-ukrainian-men-trying-to-avoid-conscription
How many more sources you need to believe that Ukrainian government is kidnapping people on the streets, forcefully puts them into vans and then sends them to die? People who don't want to fight for Zelensky, people who just one to live. They want to keep the one thing that is most precious to each human - their life. And our government, with support from your government, and people like you, is murdering thousands of us. Do you really support this? Would you still support it if it wasn't random people you don't know, but if it was your family, your father, your son if have one, your friends that were kidnapped and sent to die?
surely you are able to provide reputable sources
Sure :)
what makes the Ukrainian government illegitimate
This articles describes exactly my thoughts on this opinion: https://libertarianinstitute.org/articles/the-end-of-zelenskys-legitimacy/
when it has kidnapped its own civilians and forced them to fight
Every day!
It doesn't get shown in the western media, but if you subscribe to the local channels of big cities (Kiev/Odessa/Lviv/Kharkiv/etc.), or basically any sources actually covering what's happening in Ukraine (in Ukrainian or Russian language), you will see videos of TCK (I dunno how to properly translate it, but that's the government-military organization that does the kidnapping) posted almost every single day, people are caught on the streets and forcibly put into vans. Sometimes people manage to escape them, sometimes the crowd helps fight TCK off, but more often then not they get successfully kidnapped. Some villages got almost every men kidnapped that way (because previously they were scared to operate in big cities and preferred villages, but now they don't give a shit about anything).
A very small portion of that is documented here: https://uadraftmuseum.ch/
What country are you from?
I'm from Ukraine. You can find a little bit more info about that in my other comments - but TLDR is that thankfully I have left it before the war started, some of my family managed to escape it (illegally of course, going through the occupied territories and then through Russia, it's a mass prison now for most of the men there), but some are still trapped and trying to not get caught by the government, because if they do (and don't have enough money for a bribe), they will be sent to the front lines and probably die.
I don’t see any fascist comments in your profile
Cool, thanks, glad to see someone here with whom it's possible to have a conversation without getting called a fascist :)
but you do seem extremely pissed off that Ukraine is defending itself from Russia.
I am not pissed about Ukraine defending itself from Russia. I absolutely support the right of everyone, both people and nations, to defend themselves against an invader! I also never said that Russia are the good guys (and yet, I'm getting labeled Russian propagandist/bot as well, just saying that Russia invaded Ukraine and there is a war is a punishable offense in Russia for which I'd be sitting in jail 🤷).
The problem is, it's not "Ukraine defending itself from Russia".
There is this propaganda from Zelensky's regime that we are all volunteering to defend our country against "orcs", and he is the hero that leading us into this battle. This is as far from the truth as it gets. We want peace, which he doesn't even try to achieve (and why would he? War is what allows him to stay in power and steal millions, or likely billions of dollars). His regime needs to resort to kidnapping people on the streets and sending them to the front-lines to die. Some are refusing this and are getting sent to prisons where they are tortured. Some are trying to escape by the mountains/rivers and are dying while trying to do so. So yeah, what I'm pissed about is that the current government, supported by the west, may kill my family or my friends any day now, just like they already killed tens/hundreds of thousands already.
If it was like Zelensky's propaganda is saying where we are defending our country, and our country was not turned into a mass-prison, I'd be sending donates to AFU every freaking month. But in this reality, any support for the current government of my country is equivalent to supporting my family/friends getting killed, and as you can imagine I am not going to do that, and trying to discourage everybody else from doing so.
Yeah, so that's exactly what I'm talking about, just insults and complete lack of ability to have a normal discussion :(
So, if you have not moved on yet (if you have and/or are not willing to continue the conversation - please still think about it, it's important for self-improvement) - I have just one question for you. In theory, if you were believing in something that is not actually true (of course this is impossible, as you are clearly intelligently superior than me and your every belief is correct, but let's pretend otherwise just for the sake of a thought experiment), how would you expect to learn the truth, if you refrain from engaging in a civilized argument and call people that disagree with you trash and fascists? For example, if you lived a few centuries ago, and believed that Earth is flat (which is a normal thing to believe at that time btw, because that was the consensus of the majority) and you called everybody who says it's round a fascist (at that time it would rather be heretic, but it doesn't matter), how do you imagine a scenario where you learn the truth? Or are you saying that you don't care about learning the truth?
Yeah, that's true!
And then anyone can point out (and of course quote the exact text I've said without ripping it out of context and/or rephrasing it in their own words) which of the things I said makes me fascist :)
For some unknown (although deducible..) reason nobody has done that so far though, everyone prefers ad hominem attacks.. Hm.. It's almost like actual by-definition fascists call me fascist just to make me look bad but have no arguments to support their claims.. Weird, we all know the intellectuals of lemmy would be never do that :)
Aaaaand yeah, that's exactly what I was talking about ^ :/
And you know the funniest shit about that?
wikipedia:
Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy
That's exactly, like exactly what I argue against, and those who call me fascist argue in favor. I'm getting labeled fascist by actual fascists XD
Telling people what's actually happening in my country, and then getting called a fascist because it doesn't align with what their very-independent and very-honest and totally-not-biased media tell them. That could have been fun if it wasn't really sad :(
And I've been censored (not yet banned, but I guess it won't take long till that as well) on lemmy.world (and beehaw) for spreading "misinformation" about Ukraine, despite being a Ukrainian and actually reading (and sharing) the local news of what's actually happening there, contrary to the government propaganda.