Yeah -- I agree but that all feels better explained by the 300 year empire rule or decadence of empire stuff than what are humans made for questions, but I see the connection.
Yeah we're supposed to never leave our village for our 40 year lifespan, fear this that go against our myths and tradition and violently castigate those we deem different enough for us.
Or maybe civilization itself was too much and we should live in even smaller groups with our numbers limited by no agriculture.
I purposefully used the word 'incentives' and not logic/reason -- But still -- looking backwards through time and how separated we all used to be, this argument kind of falls apart for me. People appear to go along with things or change their minds all the time, within a life time.
How did Liberalism or progressivism begin? Why did Hammurabi ever write down laws if no one would follow them since they didnt' reason their current manner? How did all of our dad's go from the American values we grew up with to Fox News dads? Did they reason them into that and if not why doesn't your same rule apply to these?
I struggle to believe there's no theoretical solve. I agree it's likely not through logic, reason and data, but we could use logic and reason to plot a course of propaganda to move them away from Christian Fascism, just as the CF masterminds did in the opposite direction 30 years ago.
And, if there is no solve, I feel you must cede more suffering will follow for everyone. If 100 Million plus people identify with 'that side' and we decide to end persuasion, what other eventuality exists other than civil war 2? Are there examples in history of 'corralling' 33% of a population against their will politically or physically and not ending in revolt? If the CF wins, the same will be true for people that think like us, no?
Honestly, I have quit engaging in a lot of arguments with the other side too, for the same reasons you all cite, but I don't have rose colored glasses on that that makes me noble or sets our children up for a world with less suffering.
Thanks for the chat!
E: and more broadly, if a man can't be reasoned into something he did not reason into -- how did reason begin without a 2001 style obelisk or something?
One of my favorites is how we're all made in His image, but if you go to his mansion at the Vatican, he's so disgusted by Women's exposed arms (and thus his own), he has his servants to make them buy Vatican flags to cover up with.
Sure you can -- Almost all people respond to incentives. The key is to realize their incentive structure may not align with yours. If your true goal is efficacy in the change you seek to create, it's mandatory to speak to your audience in a way they will understand and be receptive to. We all have giant animal brains and tiny logic brains so you have to be really careful to not trip the wire into the limbic system where no logical thought or change can occur much less beat out tribalism and ego.
Time to become a high school football coach and have the kids face Mecca and pray 3 times a practice! They're gonna love this.
And just wait until I get to prove Yahweh is the same God in both religions in the Theocratic courts. Appeal to the pope to excommunicate them if they balk like the church did the Gnostics or Aryans for similar reasons.
Uvalde PD sat in that school for 74 minutes listening to a gunman murder children and teachers. They rehired that lady mocking helpless parents and gloating about if she was in their shoes she'd not wait. They upgraded the termination record of the commander on scene that piece of shit Arrendondo.
Yeah -- I agree but that all feels better explained by the 300 year empire rule or decadence of empire stuff than what are humans made for questions, but I see the connection.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decadence
https://thenationaldesk.com/news/politics/the-average-empire-survives-for-250-years-is-america-at-deaths-door