lancalot @ lancalot @discuss.online

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8 mo. ago

I suppose we differ in our definitions. Which is absolutely fine, to be honest*.

For completeness' sake, IMO it's basically the intersection of Major Distributions and Independent Distributions. Which happens to consist of Arch, Debian, Fedora, Gentoo, openSUSE and Slackware.

Out of these, Arch and Gentoo don't have defaults, but their documentation uses ext4 most frequently for examples. For the remaining four, Fedora and openSUSE default to Btrfs. While Debian and Slackware default to ext4.

In all fairness, one might argue that Distrowatch's list of major distros is arbitrary. Therefore, we could refine what's found above by including actually data. For this, I'll use Boiling Steam's usage chart based on ProtonDB's data. This ain't perfect either, but it's the best I can do. Here, we notice how both Gentoo and Slackware are not represented. Furthermore, NixOS poses as a candidate instead. For which, we find that (if anything) ext4 is the default. Regardless, it doesn't actually impact the earlier outcome:

• Arch (and Gentoo) don't have defaults
• Debian(, Slackware and NixOS) default to ext4
• Fedora and openSUSE default to Btrfs

Anyhow, what are the main distros according to you? Please offer an exhaustive list, please. Thanks in advance!

none of the “main” distros default to BTRFS, just “derivatives” default to BTRFS

So you don't regard Fedora (or openSUSE) as "main" distro?

Initially, I was drawn to KDE Plasma for familiarity. Therefore, when installing Linux for the first time, I chose a distro with KDE Plasma. Which happened to be Fedora Kinoite 35, a very new distro at the time. It was clearly buggy and after fiddling with it for some time, I just had to rebase to Silverblue (and GNOME) for the lack of alternatives.

Thankfully, I actually happened to really like GNOME. This was on a laptop and GNOME's touchpad gestures just felt very satisfying and intuitive; much better than anything else I had experienced before. Its (intended) workflow also made a lot of sense that way.

GNOME has really grown on me ever since. And while I've revisited KDE Plasma to see what I was supposedly missing out on, I simply stuck to GNOME as it felt cleaner and more elegant.

I wanted to stick to (what I'd refer to as) OG distros; so independent distros that have kept their relevance over a long period of time.

But you're correct, Garuda Linux and others default to Btrfs as well. At this point, I'd argue it's the most sensible option if snapshot functionality is desired from Snapper/Timeshift.

You didn't get my point. Btrfs is one OG distro removed from being THE standard. It's doing a lot better than you're making it out to be.

It's not like Btrfs is dunking on all other file systems and Debian is being unreasonable by defaulting to ext4. Instead, Btrfs wins some of its battles and loses others. It's pretty competent overall, but ext4 (and other competing file systems) have their respective merits.

Thankfully, we got competing standards that are well-tested. We should celebrate this diversity instead of advocating for monocultures.

Both Fedora and openSUSE default to Btrfs. That's all the praise it needs really.

With Bcachefs still being relatively immature and the situation surrounding (Open)ZFS unchanged, Btrfs is the only CoW-viable option we got. So people will definitely find it, if they need it. Which is where the actual issue is; why would someone for which ext4 has worked splendidly so far, even consider switching? It's the age-old discussion in which peeps simply like to stick to what already works.

Tbh, if only Debian would default to Btrfs, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Thanks for the clarification!

I hope you're not implying that NixOS is the only distro you're comfortable with. Pretty impressive if you've jumped ship directly to NixOS, though.

With all due respect, the biggest takeaway would be that you should never recommend a distro before you're comfortable with it yourself.

From Star Labs their StarLite tablet looks very attractive. Right now I considering buying a tablet for drawing and a laptop for 3D modeling instead of 2-in-1.

Honestly, this makes a lot of sense. It's unfortunate that all of your needs aren't satisfied by a single device. Assuming that the drawing capabilities of the Starlite and Infinityflex are up to par, their hardware specs don't come even close to Blender's recommended. So opting for a second device may indeed be necessary.

Whatever you'll end up picking, I hope you and your wife will be satisfied with the end result 😉!

Consider giving devices offered by NovaCustom a look.

When it comes to Linux-first laptop vendors, it's definitely my favorite out of the bunch.

On purchasing one of their devices, they offer:

• 3 years of warranty
• 5 years of firmware update support
• 7 years of (guaranteed) spare parts availability

I'm simply unaware of any other (Linux-first) firm that can compete regarding the above.

And I haven't even mentioned how vast their customization options are, or how well-praised their support is.

I'm actually stunned why it's not mentioned more often in these conversations.

Btw, I'd actually recommend you to consider the whereabouts of the respective support centers before you buy a device. You never hope to be in that situation, but it makes a real difference when it matters. So, in case you're unaware, AFAIK:

• NovaCustom; Netherlands. But as long as you're in EU mainland, it should be good enough.
• Star Labs; UK. EU outside of Great Britain is OK.
• System76; USA.
• Tuxedo; Germany. Again, EU mainland is fine.

Thank you for the clarification 😊!

I tried to find sources on that but failed. Could you help me out?

The .deb package can be found on Github.

I find it peculiar that it doesn't seem to be packaged by any distro. Debian does have a package called level-zero. But, while they're linked, it doesn't seem to be the exact same thing.

Edit: It's packaged under intel-compute-runtime.

Thank you for the reply! And apologies for the late response*.

First of all, I owe you another apology for the deleted comment; I was still in the process of cooking and accidentally sent the undercooked message.

They will get a little more respect from me when they stop trying to target programmers and gamers. Because of course everyone uses Steam and VScode.

As per its README (I'm paraphrasing):

Bazzite started as a project to resolve some of the issues that plague SteamOS:

• Mainly out of date packages (despite an Arch base).
• The lack of a functional package manager.
• Issues pertaining to persistence of installed software across updates. (Reinstalling that obscure VPN software you spent an hour trying to get working in SteamOS isn't fun.)
• No easy full disk encryption OOTB.
• No Secure Boot support.

Like, SteamOS is a pretty cool operating system that allows both Linux enthusiasts and Linux newbs to enjoy playing (most of) their favorite games on Linux. But the former may find it too restrictive, while the latter may want to import that experience over to other devices. Bazzite aims to be that solution. Were it not for the success of the Steam Deck (and by extension SteamOS), such pressing need wouldn't even have arisen. So Bazzite isn't trying to target gamers as "an easy way to attract users" (or whatever the insinuation may be); its raison d'être is to address SteamOS' limitations.

Regarding the targeting of programmers, you could be right on that. But I suppose it's fine as VS Code's inclusion (and other goodies) is only confined to the respective -dx images. I regard Bluefin (and Aurora; its KDE Plasma spin-off) as the opinionated distro its maintainers like to use for themselves (i.e. programmers). I'd argue this actually makes it suitable for most people. But your average Linux user is a lot more sensitive towards 'bloat'. So it's definitely not for everyone.

It just feels very much like it is being run by young edgy programmers.

I guess my reply would be that I simply don't feel that way. And factually, it's being worked on by people that work (or have worked) at places like Canonical, Red Hat and (even) Microsoft. So, while that doesn't necessarily dismiss them as being "young edgy", it does make it easy to trust and be confident in their proficiency and competence. I wonder what other distros are maintained by such a star ensemble.

It is the same group that is trying to force crappy “dark mode” everywhere.

This is probably some meme or meta joke/reference I didn't get. Please feel free to enlighten me.

What’s the bigger program is the lack of internet knowledge about how to fix problems. With Ubuntu and Debian there are tons of stack overflow pages on all of the various issues. Sure things have changed over time but it still the most documented distro. I can look up “how do I fix X Linux Mint” and I will get an answer. With the Bazzite immutable base almost all of the help online will be useless.

I admitted to as such in my first comment. But, what if, instead of looking up questions in your favorite search engine, you visit their support channels and get the exact answer within a couple of moments? This last bit has been based on my own experience*.

Immutable Linux requires that you understand Linux under the hood.

Instinctively, I just absolutely have to disagree on this. The most clear-cut counterexample would be how NixOS -the granddaddy of immutable atomic distros if you will- doesn't adhere to many Linux conventions (including FHS). Therefore, "understanding (traditional) Linux under the hood" might have even been detrimental and wasteful for the many things you'd have to unlearn.

Beyond the overlap in Linux 101 that most distros adhere to and/or the basics everyone should know about their operating system, could you please demonstrate how "understanding (traditional) Linux under the hood" becomes necessary with atomic distributions?

Don’t go straight to immutable Linux.

My first foray into Linux was through what you'd refer to as immutable Linux; shortly after the release of Fedora Kinoite. I'm literally the embodiment of the antithesis to your statement.

It is very new

This is factually true. So I can't simply deny that. But being more precise is helpful:

• Fedora Atomic, the family of distros that enable uBlue, has been in the works since 2014. This eventually culminated into the release of Fedora Atomic Workstation in 2018, which was the name of Fedora Silverblue before the name change.
• The first commit of uBlue as a project happened over three years ago.
• The 1.0 release of Bazzite happened over a year ago.
• By contrast, Linux Mint has been out since 2006.

and I don’t like the focus.

Could you be more elaborate 😜?

First step: Decide on the so-called desktop environment. A shortlist is provided below. For a new user, this should be decisive when choosing between beginner-friendly distros.

Before going over to the next (and final) step, we need to set the stage for our contenders:

• Versions of Linux Mint. Linux Mint has (rightfully so) become the face of Linux for beginners. Stand out feature would be how crazy popular it is; it's a joy to look up your problem through a search engine and find solutions for it.
• Images of uBlue. Where Linux Mint tries to smooth the rough edges of the "traditional Linux model" as nicely as possible, uBlue's images can be referred to as revolutionary by comparison. The model strikes some (re)semblance to what you might know from your phone or chromebook. These images aren't even close to reaching their full potential, but have already garnered/amassed a wide audience for how they (at least attempt to) solve some of Desktop Linux' long-standing issues. Note that finding solutions for your problems might not be as straightforward. However, documentation is decent and they've been very helpful on Discord.

Final step: Pick the distro corresponding to your preferred desktop environment. The list found below (ordered alphabetically) isn't trying to be exhaustive on desktop environments.

• Cinnamon; Linux Mint Cinnamon Edition. This is their flagship and probably what people mean when referring to Linux Mint.
• GNOME; Bazzite's GNOME. If you don't intend to game, then consider Bluefin instead.
• KDE Plasma; Bazzite's KDE Plasma. If you don't intend to game, then consider Aurora instead.
• MATE; Linux Mint MATE Edition.
• Xfce; Linux Mint Xfce Edition.

Check out the random button on Distrowatch (distrowatch.com/random.php) - it's like a Linux lottery, but you always win something weird!

Great response! Much appreciated!