krashmo @ krashmo @lemmy.world

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2 yr. ago

Not if this was an isolated incident. If it turns out to be something else then maybe.

The only way that could possibly happen is if Trump thought he would get all their stuff afterwards

You have been shown the way

I think we've already established that the list you made was a pretty good one so the suggestion that a list of those most responsible can't be made is pretty odd to me.

Let's say I agree with you that violence is never the answer, what's your alternate suggestion? Your thinking seems to be that oppressed people need to reason with their oppressors but what happens when they don't listen? How long are people supposed to suffer before alternate methods are morally justified? What sort of escalation path exists within your moral framework? It seems to me that your reasoning ends with "just wait longer and hope justice prevails" but at some point that becomes untenable.

Again, that may or may not be what's going on here but clearly some people think it is so the discussion is worth having.

I listed everybody. Every single human being on this planet is, in some way, responsible for the current state of society.

Being intentionally obtuse doesn't add anything to the discussion. Your average person, especially those in other countries, don't view themselves as responsible for healthcare costs in America. Whether or not that is technically true is irrelevant as their contribution is not nearly as important as the others on your list. Take away the line about voters and maybe the doctors and nurses, though some would likely disagree with that part, and you've got a pretty accurate list of the people most responsible for the situation. They oversee these systems and are therefore seen to be responsible for associated outcomes.

There's any number of ways to make a difference that are better than shooting a man in the middle of the street.

Are they really? How many people have been doing those things for decades with very little to show for it? How much campaigning can a parent paying for cancer treatment for their kid be reasonably expected to do? How many generic responses from representatives not listening to the concerns of their constituents should we trudge through?

Whether or not this shooter was motivated by the reasons we're all assuming is pretty irrelevant at this point. The simple fact that we're having this discussion at this scale demonstrates that people do not believe that the things you mentioned will improve things, and I think that's a perfectly reasonable interpretation of the situation we find ourselves in. Maybe vigilante action is not the answer but I think it's pretty clear that the usual responses you're giving are not resonating with people. Decision makers need to change that perception if they want to prevent people from looking outside the system for answers.

I feel like you are thinking about this wrong. From where I sit I think it's more likely that you're expanding the target list than helping put the brakes on this kind of vigilante behavior.

You aren't wrong in a lot of what you're saying though. Street justice rarely stays just for long. This may also be an isolated incident. However, some kind of pushback against this system is inevitable. If the people you listed don't help improve the situation then yes, they probably should be worried for their safety, and to be honest I don't think meaningful change is possible until they are. Strikes, sit-ins, and protests have only ever been effective when paired with the implied threat of physical violence if demands are not met. Greed needs to be deincentivized in one way or another. Governments and corporations don't seem interested in making that happen so action like this seems increasingly likely to me.

I didn't say it was. Still, I'm not pulling a swimmer out of the pool. They're not drowning. They jumped in on purpose.

A good chunk of them asked for this

Maybe if we're (un)lucky this will be the start of a new trend.

If a CEO has very little authority as you claim then what the fuck are they getting paid all that money for?

The way I see it they either run the company, in which case they own the blame for a company's failures, or they are just a figurehead with no real influence, in which case they don't need to be paid any more than the actors the marketing team hires to be in their commercials.

Same. I've been saying for a while that I'm surprised this kind of thing doesn't happen more often. All it takes is one person deciding that their problems are a specific company's fault. One can imagine all sorts of reasons for that conclusion to be drawn. Tons of shootings happen for way more trivial reasons too.

Modern problems require modern solutions. I'm not advocating anything but I'll leave this here in case anyone has not seen it yet.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/12/04/us/brian-thompson-united-healthcare-death/index.html

Idk. People have been saying the last version of Windows was the best one for decades (with a couple of notable exceptions). Until they switch to something else in large enough numbers to get the right asshat with an MBA at Microsoft to pay attention they will just keep squeezing.

Who cares about the label? The only descriptor that matters is "President-elect Trump" and that one is not in dispute. The rest is either semantics or copium that doesn't impact anything in a material fashion.

One could reasonably interpret the entirety of the modern era to be the upper class's quest to push us as close to that point as possible without quite getting there. They've already pushed it pretty god damn far with very little meaningful resistance. If the public's line in the sand is on the far side of fascism then that line may as well not exist at all.

I would say the 60 year period that all the movies occupy are not interesting enough for more content. Similarly to LOTR there are plenty of other time periods in which good content could be made but that makes it harder for Disney to cash in on familiar characters so they don't pursue those options.

That kind of thinking only works when enough people think protecting others is a worthy cause. It doesn't seem like that's the case anymore.

Is 8 considered early? My kid is 6 and I am starting to feel like we have waited too long already.

I don't care what his reasoning is. We elected him to protect democracy from Trump and this is perhaps the most obvious example that he's always been more interested in protecting him and his friends than the rest of us. We all know what's coming in 6 weeks and look at our supposed protector's most significant action since the election, handing out a pardon to his own family just like Trump did. Thanks Joe, I'm sure we'll all sleep better over the next 4 years knowing you dealt with Hunter's problems instead of ours.