jatone @ jatone @lemmy.dbzer0.com

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9 mo. ago

And your one point is factually incorrect for a large majority of Americans. If you live in any number of non swings states you can safely vote against harris via a 3rd party. Dont worry the lemmings like yourself before reading this post will still give her the win.

The only place your statement would be remotely true is on swing states. And at that point I put the blame squarely on harris. 🤷 Tis gonna be a shit show and she has no one to blame but herself.

Yup with both parties supporting it. Such a grand time.

I have yet to see anyone advocate that its wrong to vote for harris. Most people are advocating that its fine to vote third party.

Which is then followed by Democrats bitching and moaning that people are helping trump ny not supporting their shitty candidate. A group that apparently is so entitled they think they're owed that people should vote for their candidate because not trump.

🤷 Harris should be better. Im crossing my fingers she did the math correctly. But who knows

Anyways, get fucked

Daily. 🤗 Dont worry harris will still win here. But maybe adding my vote to the pile here has convinced my local reps to consider withholding israel support in the future . Hopefully you can do the same.

But its likely you're Happy harris is bombing innocents.

Feel free to read my post history many explanations on how to vote intelligently without risking a trump presidency. You'll probably be surprised its not 'dont vote harris'. Its 'under these conditions your best option is likely...' which both undermines harris platform with other Democrats, supports ending a genocide, and lets you stop spouting nonsense everywhere.

Viable isnt the goal. The goal is to withholding support for genocidal candidate keep up.

You can absolutely do that by supporting 3rd party candidates.

1. If you live in a 💜 state lie to your candidates and exit polls, say you do not support harris support instead and cite genocide for the reason. But shes likely your best bet so no hurt feelings either way you vote. But remember its Harris' responsibility to earn your vote through policies and positions. She doesnt have many this year besides not being a fascist and that sadly probably enough in those states honestly. To the Arab community her treatment of your community has been horrible and disgusting and I'm sorry I'll continue fighting for your family as i can.
2. If you live in a 💙 state, and most of us do, there are 16, consider with holding your vote for harris. Let your critters know what you're doing and why.
3. If you live in a💩state im sorry 😔. I have no advice for you except be as active as you can local elections.

Lol you'd fail fourth grade. First off there is no evidence third party people would vote for any other candidate if the 3rd party wasnt on the ballot.

Secondly did you know that in ~40/50 states your harris vote is very unlikely change the outcome, and in 16 of those harris is assured the win? If you're in those 16 think long and hard if genocide is the line you're willing to cross.

Fun fact do you know many 3rd party candidates and no voters this year are Republicans?

Second fun fact: did you know that our government has two electable branches? And you can deny votes for one to influence the other? Did you also know that this works locally too?

For example i routinely deny candidates from the Democratic party my vote while voting for other Democratic candidates to increase the likelihood they are replaced or change their positions.

The governor who is prochoice has way more votes than the legislature candidate who wasnt 🤔. Funny how that works. So again anyone reading this:

1. Support rank choice voting in your region.
2. Feel free to vote third party! Its fine in most cases. Just show up and vote.
3. If you're in a competitive district: voting third party might not be in your interest!
4. Stop repeating the lesser evil nonsense and learn how to leverage your vote for the maximum outcome. Handing your vote out to the lesser evil is why we dont have labor rights or decent health care.
5. The genocide is a real fucking problem and America should not be backing it. If you like my dear friend im responding to here maybe learn a more nuanced view for voting instead of being driven by fear. You'll get better outcomes both in convincing people to support your candidate and in your stress levels.

No you say that. My ballot had 5 options. Yours may have a different number depending on the state.

If you dont like this situation thats not my problem. Its yours. Go demand rcv in your state. Go demand democrats not support a genocide. I wish harris had a single policy that'd make her worth voting for. Sadly her entire platform is already shit my state has with a genocidal cherry on top.

Sucks to suck I guess. Better luck next election, i hope this one works out for you. Until then i will continue to deny harris my vote in my 20+ dem state and let my critters know they're on thin ice if israel continues its behavior with our support.

As ive been telling everyone its perfectly okay to not vote for harris if its not in your interests. Harris' struggles are her own doing. IF you live in a blue state think hard on your vote there are benfits to voting third party. If you live in a purple or red state Harris' campaign may be your best option in which case no hard feelings vote for her! Totally understandable.

Lol, all of it comes down to enforcement as you well know and the fact is there would be none. Everything you cited are either) insanely unlikely or not a function of our branches. Getting shot at by a member of the military? Lol. Please. Not remotely relevant.

Impeachment today is essentially toothless. Particularly in biden's case as hes done with office anyways.

So as i said: in the three months remaining of bidens term he could 1) absolutely dump blinken and replace him, not an issue. 2) can absolutely withhold weapons see leahy. 3) the history of the president defying judicial orders is well supported.

FVRA

Id give a shit if it actually meant anything. You clearly confuse words on paper with real world consequences.

I take it that you are referring to Trump v US. None of that has any bearing on the matter of what Bliken does or doesn’t do.

Correct it has bearing on what biden can do. I.e. fire him and replace at his leisure. Which is why you're trying to place the blame on bliken because as you know biden has many options on the table for gaza he is just unwilling to use them because he is a Zionist.

You'll note that in you 2nd wall of nonsense. Not once have you managed to identify how the judicial branch can hold a president accountable.

Yes congress might, though as we both know they almost certainly won't and essentially has never happened. oh no impeachment, poor 2 timer trump has suffered zero consequences from it. And that was after trying to overthrow the government. Lol @ congress taking a pass not equaling consequence free. But i see your issue you think someone filing paper work is a consequence. 😂 Identify material consequences a president has suffered as a result of defying congress or a judicial order? You'll find very few.

And it amuses me you claim harris isnt culpable for the genocide, she absolutely is and you know it which is why you won't expand on in detail as you're so very happy to do.

The fact biden is a Zionist is why gaza is continuing it literally has nothing to do with blinken. There are many paths biden can take to deal with him. He can fire him, countermand him, or execute him thanks to scotus.

Stop wasting everyones time by trying to argue the indefensible. You're clearly one of the dunces who thinks rules on paper matter even though people break them constantly in the real world with zero problems.

😂 none of it is due to her entering late. These are all issues that have been active in past elections they havent gone away we just didnt have a primary.

Overall harris just is a shitty candidate, watch her speak. That's why shes losing.

Arabs? Silences them at every turn, actively prevents their voices.

Gaza? Immediately drops her law and order routine in favor of a genocide. Funny that. Its almost like shes doesnt have any real policies.

Lgbt+ issues tries to deflect to 'law and order' statements. Instead of personally taking a position. Yes currently the law supports things like gender affirming care in prisons. Thats not the same thing as being an ally.

Labor? Nothing to see here either. It'd upset her masters.

If your opinion isn’t supported by the majority, it’s very, very hard to get a politician’s support.

I think you're confusing majority with oligarchies. Most of those policies are majority supported.

What type of healthcare reform are you referring to?...

Id be open to any number of policies here. Ranging from single payer, to allowing Medicare/aid funding to be applied to state single payer systems. Right now American's fund 5 different healthcare systems: the VA, federal employees, Medicare, medicaid, private. Add in obama care market places and you have 6. The overhead is absurd. Then add the second order impacts of the 80/20 split from obama care which only encourages insurance companies to pay more for care to increase their profits. Boggles my mind people think obama care was good policy.

Anyways, i can rant for ages on healthcare. You dont really want to start on that road if you think you'll have an insight that will make harris look good. ;)

She supports an increase to $15/hour, but that was pretty recent.

Yeah because many states are pushing it on their own anyways. And she doesnt have the support from the party so we wont see it regardless. Its an easy bone with no actual substance behind it. As you're very well aware at this point. Shes just desperate and unwilling to commit to the actual things she can do. Curious you thought mentioning it would matter. 🧐

NLRB, which marked a significant difference from the Trump administration. Are you referring to the railroad strike of 2022?

Indeed he has, and yes. Essentially my point is harris has no policy positions for labor. She doesnt get credit for biden's policies, she only gets demerits for not speaking out against the failures. Find me her policy positions on labor. Breaking the train strike was an absolute debacle for the biden admin. And they know it, its why they wouldn't touch the port strikers so close to the election. Not that they didnt want to mind you. Contrary to common belief most voters do have long memories. They just get encoded as positive or negative. They may not talk about these older issues but they are definitely taken into account.

I hear a lot of people encouraging not voting or voting third party this cycle.

Yes. As they should if they're in a blue state. Personally i went third party as well in my +20 blue state. Harris campaign has jack shit for americans besides not trump. She has had plenty of time to put together a positive story for her campaign but she far the best she can muster is: ignore systemic issues in health care by bribing the dying (can they even get to the polls? Im assuming its really targetting their care givers) and a 50k stipend to start a business that I'm sure if i did deeper will have so many hoops that almost no one will get it. Im happy to be blessed that i can give her the middle finger she so rightfully deserves at this point.

Most of what you're seeing from the left right now on gaza is because all the other issues are not feasible without full democratic support. Kahn/genocide are both things harris absolutely can commit to and enact on her own.

So i ask everyone again: have you called your reps repeatedly in support of gaza? Have you emails harris campaign? The sad reality is most of you think you know how to vote lesser evil and all that but your strategy is essentially guaranteed to fail. Not only will you not get concessions unless you are willing to with hold your vote but you're behavior towards people who can and do will cause them to be less likely to support your party in the future.

At this point its clear most Harris supporters are more than comfortable with a genocidal candidate. For me, i will continue voting for candidates who represent my interests which currently very few democrats do and withholding it until they do. It usually doesnt take much. Dont be an asshole, have policies that support labor. The fact most Democrats can't meet this bar is astounding.

Jesus the mental gymnastics you're pulling to dampen the dissonance of how absolutely horrible the harris campaign has been to our Arab brothers and sisters.

Its on par with Trump's Puerto Rico nonsense and racism. They're just not saying the quiet part out loud.

'we love our Muslim neighbors!' Proceeds to salt their crops, prevent them from speaking out, handing weapons to their murders.

This truly is the worst timeline. Its a shame the Democrats couldn't get it together and not support a genocide. Looks like they've lost my vote for the foreseeable future in national elections. Probably should have sent Israel that letter with a deadline before the election and then followed through.

I'd add shelters to the list if you can't immediately get direct travel to family. Many provide support services as well which can help you on your next steps.

wow you just ignore that biden wanted to give them the weapons anyways. you see its a little thing called providing cover. Biden didn't fight against it because he wanted to give isreal the weapons.

it'd be a poor course it empirically incorrect on a number of counts.

lol. entire wall of text predicated on a position that is easily filled without congressional confirmed. someone didn't pay attention to trumps presidency at all.

but lets hit on the misconceptions you're spouting.

Once something becomes law, the President “has” to carry it out

incorrect. Presidents have refused to enforce/carry out laws repeatedly throughout history. that's one of the powers of the executive branch. its not explicit but there is no enforcement mechanism. Your assertion that congress can sue is 100% true. what you're missing is that during that time the president can just not due what the law says and these things can take years. Secondly even if a judge blocks an EO the president can still do it the judge has no enforcement mechanism. You may have learned about this little system in grade school: The honor system. which is entirely useless. There are historical instance of this such as worcester v georgia. abraham lincoln did it w/ habeus corpus and more recently Franklin D. Roosevelt.

But Harris likely wouldn’t have Blinken as Secretary of State, which would fix A WHOLE LOT.

biden can easily deal with blinken, its called firing and assigning a temporary individual to the role. not like he has a lot of time left there'd be no time to confirm a new individual anyways. Blinken simply isn't the issue, biden was until we got rid of him by not supporting him. Now Harris is, she's the one who has committed to genocide at this point thats causing the issue not blinken.

You're entire 'civics' lesson ignores the historical realities of the presidency and EOs. especially in light of the recent SCOTUS ruling on presidential powers which expanded this ability by conferring it judicial backing.

What about all the innocent women who are dying in our country because of who trump appointed to the supreme court and the result was the overturning roe vs wade?

See state ballot initiatives. they've been far more effective in 4 years than democratic presidents and congress critters have in 5 decades.

What about the kids who get massacred in school shootings because Trump and people like him won’t support increased gun control legislation?

see above.

What about all the innocent people of color who have been killed by police? Do they matter to you?

see above. biden and harris support the police remember? they actively fought against police reforms.

If trump gets into the office not only will the Palestinian people be far worse off, so will every group I mentioned above and more.

yes that is unfortunately true, maybe you should inform harris to change her position on genocide to ensure the other groups are not put at risk over her hubris? On the flip side its a lot easier to protect the groups you're white knighting for in your local community via your local reps and processes and your own personal actions.

Maybe you should realize you can in many states safely vote third party for president and democrats down ballot and essentially have the same national outcome while simultaneously undercutting the genocide harris is dead set on committing. thereby giving left wing congress critters more leverage with harris post election.

What you are really telling everyone here is that you are unwilling to give up a bit of your privileged lifestyle over a little bit of genocide. That says more about you than it does about the individuals withholding their support from harris.

So you think Trump would be better than Harris?

no, we (speaking for myself and @selah here) don't support genocidal candidates. stop making up stories in your head and read what people are telling you.

Because that’s the only thing you get to vote on: Trump or Harris.

incorrect there were 5 candidates on my ballot. this is a false choice that exists purely in your head. There are many paths to neutralizing trump and that don't normalize genocide.

A vote for neither is a vote for whoever has more votes

incorrect, pure fiction. i suggest you spruce up on your basic addition and ratio math skills. What you mean to say is no vote or a vote for a 3rd party doesn't help harris, you're preferred candidate. yes. thereby putting her candidacy at risk. maybe she should adopt some policies to fix this.

The reason harris is swinging to the right is because the right wing doesn't care about worker rights and many are also very disgusted with trump. They require no concessions by capital to garner votes; just a general disgust with trump. If trump wasnt running this wouldn't be possible.

Hilariously I have no problem with this as a left wing voter. Why? because if the democrats can reliably peel off the few remaining moderate republicans we can finally split this big tent party and get a party that is dedicated to working class rights.

this is just incorrect on so many levels.

first off: if you consistently vote for a candidate no matter what they do then they can write you off.

No politician is going to pay a group that plays hard to get much heed.

imagine thinking drawing a line at 'genocide' is playing hard to get. my god the bar is so low. no wonder we dont have any fucking working class rights. thanks, you definitely know what your doing.

There’s a reason causes championed by Black women always feature fairly heavily in the Democratic Party platform.

yes. do tell. how exactly have the democrats have targetted black women issues specifically? go on I'll wait.

The real issue is democrats get funding from the 1% and are unwilling to promote worker rights. that's why they write off the left base issues. fortunately for them the left has been bolstering them regardless every election for decades despite this because republicans would literally murder people for being different. And that generally continues, even right now with harris.

If you look at the policies from harris' campaign and compare it to 2016/2020.

• no healthcare reform mostly just give aways to insurance companies through tax credits.
• no minimum wage increase.
• wont commit to keeping kahn the most effective FTC chair in more than 4 decades.
• wont commit to supporting striking workers.
• no mandated PTO/Sick leave for workers.

seems more corporate friendly than worker friendly to me. then add in a genocide on top and completely dismissing a minority group because they are inconvenient and here we are.

What left wing people are really telling you:

• vote for what you think is best. If you're in a safe state go wild on third party candidates. swing state? probably better off w/ harris.
• let your reps know that your vote is at risk if the genocide continues post election. and then follow through in the next cycle.

I've seen many: 'feel free to vote 3rd party, its okay to not support a genocidal candidate' very few 'dont vote or you support genocide' are you sure you're reading peoples posts correctly?

I'm going to ensure people know they are other options than voting for genocide. if harris loses to fucking trump as a result, that's her fault not mine. learn to place blame were it properly belongs: On the person committed to a genocide. I didnt force her down this path. I didnt force you down this path. You and her choose it willingly.

Let me know when you're willing to stop supporting a genocide and then we can talk.