jatone @ jatone @lemmy.dbzer0.com

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565

Joined

9 mo. ago

Again, an old tired argument. Now take everything you said and apply it to harris as it applies to you and her just as equally as it applies to me. I told you to re-read my posts until you understood what I was telling you., you've clearly failed. as you continue to think your position is the default one. its not.

And no I didn't stop paying attention to the campaign, she just never committed to stopping the arm shipments. full stop. I literally checked her campaign every fucking day for two months waiting for her to shift. the closest she got was on the final day and even that was far too little to convince anyone she was willing to do what needed to be done for the arabs to vote for her. and by then many people had already cast their votes.

sigh okay I'm done. please continue re-reading the last post until you understand what I'm telling you, i edited in a few extra details. You keep thinking I dont understand the implications. but its clear you don't understand human behavior enough and think you can keep nattering at people with your theory they'll eventually be swayed.

I in no way was fighting you or harris. I was helping arabs. you have yet to give a single fucking reason harris couldn't have shifted positions that a community of people would fucking accept their family members being murdered and that cost harris 25 points in the electoral college at a fucking minimum.

Instead you've been nattering on about all the other problems that will crop up because trump won. well guess what, their family and friends matter more to them than ukrainians, lgbt, etc. You need a reason that can convince people to accept the murder of their family and friends. and good fucking luck.

So kindly take your own advice and stop cutting off your nose to spite your face over support for a fucking genocide. Because there is no argument you can make, that I havent already heard, or thought of in the last year that will counter what I've been telling you and you're just going to have to accept that.

like i said you're not bringing anything new to this conversion. I'm well aware about whats currently and going to continue happening in the middle east, and elsewhere. stop assuming people don't know whats to come just makes you look foolish. we did this entirely eyes open. not our fault harris and people like yourself thought it was a bluff. it mostly just demonstrates the supreme lack of empathy harris (and those like her) have.

The gall telling people to begging for their friends and family to not be murdered to 'stfu, and vote for the lesser evil' when the lesser evil is literally the one murdering them.

If you want to know a secret, I would have voted for harris if she was at risk in my state, but 1) she wasnt, 2) the arabs community wouldn't, 3) they needed all the support they could get.

I was happy to help them attempt to push harris and the DNC, as you should have been. if more people took my stance and tanked harris' campaign even harder earlier maybe we wouldn't be in this mess. sometimes a little empathy is all you need.

You're assertion about FPTP, again you're assuming I don't already understand FPTP. I apparently understand it better than you do. Since I know when I can break with the theory based on contextual conditions in my state. I also know I can lie to my candidates/pollsters/you about my positions leading up to the election in order to get more than I really need to commit my vote.

I also understand FPTP theory doesn't account for human behavior and that murdering peoples friends and family will naturally be such a stressor they won't give a shit about its theory. I know I fucking wouldnt. so next time be more empathetic towards people being murdered and maybe we wouldn't be in this mess.

The disclaimer from people screaming lesser evil. ;)

laugh i never thought biden (or the dnc) was anyone but who he was. I was entirely unsurprised by his administration and this election cycle.

I dont particularly care if they move further right. Thats their decision. Just means they're even less likely to get votes from people like myself. Its not really a threat. (Though thats unlikely in my state, nationally shrug)

I suspect by 2028 my state will be close or have rcv and third party work can begin. Shrug

No we're watching the same candidate. You're just willing to paper over a genocide for the other bits. And thats a you decision.

I, and many others were not okay with it. And that was our decision. Its not our responsibility to support a candidate just because the other candidate is a shit stain.

your candidate was the ones taking the risk. You dont get to demand peoples votes for a candidate or lay blame on others because of anothers candidates behavior.

You need votes to win which means convincing people to vote for your candidate. Harris definitely knew what the deal was and she made the decision to risk it. Trump also understood this, clearly better than Harris his campaign started courting that group immediately after she left them.

This conversation is done. you're not bringing anything new to the discussion. Accept the loss that harris received because she was unwilling to move on a genocide.

Learn from this from the next election: a candidate does not get to demand votes from people because the other candidate is trash, demand your candidate move to accept positions that dont conflict w/ yours. As an example i was more than willing to accept the border policy and firearms policy shifts. I was not okay with cheney, but i would have ignored it for a win. I was not okay with arming israel while a genocide was occurring, i was not okay with how she treated the arab Americans begging for help by her campaign.

Oh it definitely is, for many a genocide is a genocide. You dont get to play the moral shades continuum once you reach that level of atrocity. So here we are.

You also need to realize that many states will be insulated from the worst of trump via our local government. So in reality life will go on for us, foreign policy will go to shit but shrug. Not much we can do there.

Pandemic was def part of it. People were actively dying as a result of trumps behavior.

Biden also tacked left a bit due to the fact warren/bernie had most of the votes in their camp during the primary.

It was a big part of his initial 'single term' promise. Which was due to pressure from the left wing that fine if we vote for you you're a single term pres.

He could have managed a 2nd term if he didnt genocide, didnt break the rail strikes, and maintained more mental agility than a potato. Unfortunately he was adamant on both those things. Then harris walked in and was all 'everything we did was beautiful! Vote harris!'

There was a collective sigh by people like me and most just checked out again and continued our local collective action support for each other. (This is why not having a primary is a huge downside for dems, removes the ability for us to build enthusiasm)

Some of us, the masochists, decided to try and raise the warning flags for Harris and friends that she was about to get fucked.

If the dnc eventually learns and gets a firebrand left wing to run that can strike the whistle just right not to scare most of the centrists you'll see those voters very quickly return. But thats predicted on dnc learning, which is unlikely alot of us right now who can are putting in the time to get rcv or its like passed so we can build a viable 3rd party.

Her platform was not fine. The few policies she put forward were either limited to incredible minor subsets of the population (capping price of just insulin, a minor payput for first time how buyers in very limited areas, a tax cut that barely puts a dent in the rise of the cost of living due to inflation), or were things most states have already done themselves.

Not to mention speed running to the right. A genocide, etc.

The number of days was not the issue. It was her complete disregard for the plight of the middle class struggling on food/housing and arabs literally watching her and bidens admin murdering their families.

Never mind the fact that she was one of the individuals that was gaslighting americans over bidens mental decline.

She had plenty of time to plan her campaign if she hadnt been too busy gaslighting people.

Most states with significant left populations already have abortion protected by law. See we do organize during the off years.

Seriously? My friend, we've been shouting for two months why peogressives weren't going to show up this election. This post isnfull of the reasons.

You'll need someone else to do the deep dive but:

• genocidal support by harris/biden.
• hard shift to the right on policy. Fucking cheney's.....
• no working class policy positions that would actually be impactful. (Keeping khan, commiting to not breaking strikes, maybe some reforms of pto/sick leave/etc.)

Im not looking for any response to this. Its purely informational.

Because most of them were worth less than the bits than they were stored on. She never would have gotten them through congress. She just put them there. 🤷 You'll note the things she could have done unilaterally like end shipments to israel and commit to keeping kahn she flat out refused to do/support.

have you bought their vpn service? ;)

All good friend.

Im sure if you think on it you'll eventually figure it out.